That's not what radical acceptance means. And that misunderstanding is exactly where this episode starts.

In this Reacting to Reddit at Work episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee are joined by producer Bree Bartos and Dr. Matt Zakreski, clinical psychologist and founder of the Neurodiversity Collective, for a conversation about burnout, the struggle switch, lizard brain versus wizard brain, and what it actually looks like for managers and organizations to show up for neurodivergent employees.

Bree's sink falls apart during the episode. Pinaki references Nonviolent Communication. Dr. Matt describes the erectile dysfunction stages of grief. It goes places.

In this episode, they discuss:

•       What radical acceptance actually means — and why the therapy world's version got lost in translation

•       The struggle switch: why it's not the emotion that gets you, it's the feeling about the feeling about the feeling

•       Lizard brain vs. wizard brain, and what managers can do before a hard conversation to keep both parties in the right headspace

•       Why the OP has been fired 20 times and what Pinaki thinks is actually going on

•       What psychological safety has to do with body swaying, tattoos, and doing your job with full commitment

•       Metacommunication: naming what you're doing so your employee's nervous system has a runway

•       Pinaki's mental palate cleanser — the meeting opener that isn't 'how's your day?'

•       What managers can actually do when they suspect someone on their team is neurodivergent

•       Dr. Matt on the dance of relationships: when you need more, you get more — and how to stop keeping score

If you've ever felt like the job was designed for someone else's brain — you're probably right. And this episode is for you.

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Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

In this Between the Seasons episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee sit down with Dr. Matt Zakreski, clinical psychologist at the Neurodiversity Collective and author of The Neurodiversity Playbook, for a conversation about what it actually looks like to build workplaces where different kinds of brains can do their best work.

Dr. Matt brings the research, the analogies, and a lot of really good pizza metaphors. Bree admits she can't send emails without a dopamine boost. Chris shares his ADHD diagnosis. Pinaki wonders, out loud, if he's on a spectrum of something. And everyone agrees: the world was built by neurotypical people, and that's a problem worth fixing.

In this episode, they discuss:

•       What neurodivergence actually is — and why it is not a choice

•       The pizza dinner party analogy: inclusion isn't about throwing away what works, it's about making sure there's something for everyone at the table

•       Steve, the guy who holds the office together but isn't hitting his sales numbers — and what organizations get wrong about him

•       Body doubling, expense report happy hour, and free solutions to executive functioning challenges

•       Be curious, not furious: why asking why before assuming intent changes everything

•       The difference between intention and impact, and why owning that gap matters

•       What to do when someone is truly not a fit — and how to do the warmest possible handoff

•       Dr. Matt's book, The Neurodiversity Playbook, and why he wrote it as a play-by-play guide, not a cover-to-cover read

If you've ever felt like you were playing the game on hard mode without knowing why, this one's for you.

Check out Dr. Matt and his work:

LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4t4056a
Buy his book, Neurodiversity Playbook: https://amzn.to/4n0sKrp
The Neurodiversity Collective: https://bit.ly/4eS4vd1 
https://www.drmattzakreski.com/
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Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

That's the Reddit post at the center of this Between the Seasons episode. And every single person at the table has lived a version of it.

In this Reacting to Reddit at Work episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee are joined by producer Bree Bartos and Senior Account Manager Jen Samuel, who's back for round two with another round of stories that hit uncomfortably close to home.

The conversation covers scope creep, why managers avoid hard conversations, what it actually takes to advocate for yourself, rejection therapy, and the phantom laptop problem — the deeply relatable experience of going on vacation and not knowing what to do with your hands because you didn't bring your work computer for the first time in years.

In this episode, they discuss:

•       Why managers avoid giving straight answers about raises and career growth

•       The difference between complaining about workload and making a direct business case for yourself

•       Pinaki's advice: ask for the no — and why rejection therapy is actually a skill worth building

•       Jen on writing talking points for herself like she'd write them for someone else

•       Chris on Never Split the Difference and what FBI hostage negotiation tactics have to do with your next performance review

•       Why organizations are always caught by surprise when great people leave — and who that's really on

•       Bree applied to 200+ jobs after her layoff. Local Wisdom was the only company where a human reached out.

•       Jen's phantom laptop problem, and the boss who told her to leave it at home

If you've ever been asked to do more without being offered more in return, this one's going to feel very familiar.

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Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Jen Samuel knows that cost intimately. With over 20 years in internal communications — starting at a young, people-centric airline and spending most of that time as the only person in the room doing her job — she's lived through the burnout, the scope creep, the "be strategic but also update the website" contradiction, and the quiet weight of feeling like no one really understands what you do or what it takes.

In this episode, Pinaki and Chris welcome Jen to Between the Seasons (and to the Local Wisdom team) for a conversation about what it's really like to work alone in a field that exists to connect everyone else. They talk about how being a team of one shapes your identity over time, why the busyness-as-virtue culture makes it so hard to step back, and what it means to finally land somewhere that lets you just be human.

Bree joins in too — and her perspective as a fellow recent Local Wisdom addition brings the conversation home.

In this episode, they discuss:

• What 20+ years as a team of one in internal comms actually looks like
• How burnout builds when there's no one to hand things off to — even at a funeral
• Chris on The Tyranny of Work and the idea that busyness has become morally virtuous
• Why internal comms teams of one are being asked to be strategic advisors and postmasters at the same time — and why that math doesn't work
• The moment Jen realized other communicators felt exactly the same way (and the community that changed everything)
• Bree on what it felt like to go from isolation to a team that actually checks in
• What good looks like — at Local Wisdom, at Gallagher, and everywhere in between
• Pinaki's call to action: if you're a team of one, find your people

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Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

This week, we pick up right where we left off. Now that Chris and Pinaki know it’s Bree’s own experience, the conversation shifts — from advice to something more honest. Bree fills in what the post left out: how close she and Amy really were, how the comparison and competition showed up in their friendship long before it showed up at work, and how the whole thing ended (spoiler: COVID and a merger did some heavy lifting).

But the real reason Bree wanted to share this story isn’t the betrayal. It’s what it left behind: a deep, persistent imposter syndrome that still surfaces even after a great annual review. If someone your best friend thought you weren’t good enough, how do you fully trust yourself again?

In this episode, they discuss:

• What the post left out — how close Bree and Amy actually were
• When a friendship starts draining more energy than it gives
• Why confrontation without curiosity often makes things worse
• The difference between someone doing something to you vs. for themselves
• How imposter syndrome takes root — and why it’s so hard to pull out
• What organizations miss when they only seek competence without passion
• Competition vs. collaboration: why pitting teammates against each other backfires
• Pinaki on love, creativity, and a quote from Fist of the North Star

It’s one of the most personal conversations we’ve had on Between the Seasons. And it’s a reminder that the messiest, most human experiences at work are often the ones that shape us the most.

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Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

The post: a young multimedia specialist lands her dream job, befriends a coworker named Amy, and then gets blindsided when Amy goes to their manager and says she doesn’t deserve the role. Years later, OP still carries the imposter syndrome. How do you move on from a betrayal like that? How do you trust your own abilities again?

Chris and Pinaki react in real time, unpacking the relationship dynamics, the role of managers in catching toxic team tension before it metastasizes, and why people rarely do things to you — they do things for themselves. The conversation gets personal, and then it gets really personal.

Because there’s a twist at the end.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why creative roles carry more emotional weight — and how that creates unique vulnerabilities
• The danger of avoiding confrontation until it’s too late
• What managers should (and often don’t) do when team dynamics break down
• The difference between someone doing something to you vs. for themselves
• What it looks like when competition and friendship collide at work
• How imposter syndrome can outlast the person who planted it

This is Part 1 of 2. Tune in next week to hear the rest of the story — and find out how knowing the truth changes everything.

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Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

The post: two coworkers-turned-best-friends started a podcast together. It began innocently enough, but after a rebrand, the content got raunchy — and then a coworker found it. Now they’re asking Reddit: how do you keep your podcast and your professional life separate? How do you promote something you have to keep secret?

The conversation goes deep fast. Nazmul shares his experience declaring his YouTube channel to a former employer and why transparency early is almost always better than damage control later. Bree reveals she spent two years streaming on Twitch in her “E-girl era” and told exactly no one at work. And Pinaki recalls a coworker who accidentally landed on the Yahoo homepage. Together, they work through the real factors: social media policies, conflict of interest, company culture, career risk, and what it actually means to be a whole person in a workplace that maybe only sees part of you.

Oh, and Bree finds the podcast mid-episode. The plot thickens.

In this episode, they discuss:

• When your creative life gets discovered by your workplace — now what?
• Why being upfront with your employer is almost always the smarter move
• How company type and industry shape what’s acceptable
• Social media policies, conflict of interest, and what you signed when you were hired
• Bree’s two-year Twitch era (and why she kept it secret until now)
• Faceless channels, pseudonyms, and other ways to protect your professional reputation
• When a passion project becomes a real business — and what that changes
• Nazmul’s take: check your analytics before you decide what to risk

It’s a candid, funny, and genuinely useful conversation for anyone who’s ever wondered how much of yourself you’re allowed to bring to work — and how much to keep for yourself.

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Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

📺 Check out History Meets Finance - YouTube
Nazmul Islam - LinkedIn

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Nazmul walks through how his research process has evolved over the years: from solo Googling, to hiring freelancers on Fiverr, to bringing on journalists for deep-dive research. He shares where AI tools like Claude and NotebookLM fit into his workflow now — and importantly, where they don’t replace human judgment.

The conversation also covers the challenge of staying consistent on a passion project when no one’s making you do it, what it’s like to look at history and finance side by side, and why media literacy and source transparency matter more than ever in a world saturated with AI-generated content.

In this episode, they discuss:

• How Nazmul built History Meets Finance from a weekend side project to 129K+ subscribers
• The role of external accountability in staying consistent on passion projects
• How the research process evolved from solo Googling to working with journalists
• Where AI (Claude, NotebookLM, ChatGPT) fits — and where it doesn’t
• Why entertainment is not the same as information
• The importance of source transparency and building trust with an audience
• Media literacy as a skill we all need to sharpen right now
• What “follow the money” reveals about how society actually works

It’s a practical, curious conversation for anyone who creates content, does research-heavy work, or is trying to figure out how to use AI without losing what makes their work worth trusting.

Check out History Meets Finance here.

Follow Nazmul on LinkedIn.

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Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

They pick up right where they left off, exploring what it really takes to build and maintain community — and why it’s often inconvenient by design. The group digs into why some people say they want community but don’t actually follow through, the difference between self-care and isolation, and whether society is quietly retreating from the discomfort that connection requires.

Chuck makes a pointed case that saying no has been glamorized as a form of self-care and boundary-setting, while Kristin argues that confidence issues people carry into the workplace are personal development problems — not workplace problems. The conversation builds toward a deeper question: what happens to the next generation of workers who have never had to sit with rejection long enough to grow from it?

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why not everyone truly wants community — even when they say they do
• The price of community is inconvenience: what that means in practice
• How we’ve confused self-care with isolation
• Why saying no has been glamorized — and what we lose when yes disappears
• Confidence as a personal development issue, not a workplace fix
• Rejection as a career skill — and why avoiding it stunts growth
• What the next generation of workers might be missing by opting out of discomfort

It’s a candid, thought-provoking continuation that goes well beyond internal communications — into the messier, more human questions about connection, growth, and what it costs to show up.

If you’re attending Transform 2026 in Vegas, the EX Factor Summit is happening this month.
 EX Factor Summit at Transform 2026: Register Here

Chuck Gose: LinkedIn

Kristin Hancock: LinkedIn

ICology: joinicology.com — use code ICLOVE for $50 off your first year

Frequency Podcast (Chuck Gose & Jenni Field): Listen Here

Friends of Indy Animals (Indianapolis): Learn More

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

ICology convinced it was a failure. Twelve people had signed up. She’d wanted thirty.

That event turned out to be magic.

In this Between the Seasons episode, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee are joined by Chuck Gose

and Kristin Hancock, the co-founders of ICology, to mark five years of building what’s become one

of internal communications’ most genuinely human communities. Chuck started ICology as a podcast

back in 2015 looking for new voices in internal comms. Kristin built the community that surrounds it.

Together, they’ve created something that doesn’t look or feel like anything else in the profession.

The conversation covers the real story of building ICology — the individual outreach, the events

that nearly didn’t happen, the moment success looked exactly like failure, and why Chuck says you

should take it personally when people don’t show up (and why that’s actually good advice).

They also talk about what’s next: the EX Factor Summit, a new pre-conference mini-summit at

Transform 2026 in Las Vegas designed to bring internal communicators into the employee experience

conversation in a more hands-on, problem-solving way. And yes, Busta Rhymes is involved.

In this episode, they discuss:

• What Kristin and Chuck each brought to ICology — and why both were necessary

• Why building community is harder than it looks (and lonelier than you’d expect)

• The lesson from 12 people in a room that felt like failure until it didn’t

• Why Chuck says to take it personally when people don’t engage

• How individualism gets in the way of community — inside and outside of work

• Why internal comms needs to stop asking for a seat at the table and start building one

• What the EX Factor Summit is, and what attendees will walk away with

If you’re attending Transform 2026 in Vegas, the EX Factor Summit is happening this month.

Chuck Gose: LinkedIn

Kristin Hancock: LinkedIn

ICology: joinicology.com — use code ICLOVE for $50 off your first year

EX Factor Summit at Transform 2026: Register Here

Frequency Podcast (Chuck Gose & Jenni Field): Listen Here

Friends of Indy Animals (Indianapolis): Learn More

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

week, she found something that stopped her in her tracks.

A Reddit post from the r/AIBoyfriends subreddit (yes, it exists — 59,000 members strong) went viral

after a woman shared that her AI boyfriend, Casper, had proposed to her in the mountains. It was

sweet, it was earnest, and it opened up a conversation neither of them saw coming.

Because when 60,000 people are forming real emotional bonds with AI, what does that mean for the

future of work? What happens when those same people — already comfortable turning to AI for

connection — start walking into HR offices, or leading teams, or building companies?

Pinaki and Bree dig into what the post revealed: about loneliness, about human connection, about

the very real risks of replacing people with programs in the workplace. They talk about AI Pam from HR,

about what a five-year-old understands (and doesn’t) about Google, about what we give up when

we let AI fill the gaps that people used to fill.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why people turn to AI for emotional connection — and why that makes sense

• The difference between a personal AI and an organizational one

• What gets lost when HR becomes automated

• How AI relationships are shaping expectations of real human ones

• The hidden cost of being both the user and the product

• Why mindfulness about AI use matters more than ever

It’s a conversation that started with an engagement post and ended somewhere much more human.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this Between the Seasons episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee are joined by Rich Dome, Senior Director of Partnerships at Local Wisdom, as Bree brings a Reddit story to the table about networking burnout.

The post comes from a seasoned sales professional who once thrived at conferences but now feels drained, overwhelmed, and ready to disappear by lunchtime. The team unpacks what is really going on beneath the surface. Is it networking fatigue, startup pressure, internal politics, or a battery that has been running on empty for too long?

Rich shares his go-to strategies for approaching conferences with intention, including how to “pregame” mentally, do meaningful research ahead of time, and build relationships without leading with a sales pitch. The group also talks about trade show booth dynamics, the pressure to perform in startup environments, and why selling under stress rarely works.

They explore how to recharge when you are stuck at a multi-day event in another city, from taking intentional breaks to dividing and conquering as a team. Most importantly, they remind listeners that networking works best when it is rooted in curiosity and connection, not transactions.

In this episode, they discuss:

● Why networking burnout is often a sign of deeper exhaustion
● How startup pressure can change your relationship with sales
● The importance of charging your battery before a conference
● Researching attendees to spark real conversations
● Why leading with connection beats leading with a pitch
● How to reset mid-conference when you feel drained
● The power of teaming up so no one feels alone

If conferences have started to feel heavier than they used to, this conversation is a reminder that you are not broken. You might just need a reset.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this Between the Seasons episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee are joined by Rich Dome, Senior Director of Partnerships at Local Wisdom, to talk about how to approach conferences with intention. After a busy year of events, the team reflects on what makes an experience meaningful, how to build real relationships, and why networking does not have to feel transactional.

Rich shares his “30-second rule” for finding common ground, why listening matters more than pitching, and how to leave conversations with a clear next step. The group also talks about conference anxiety, introversion, and why many of us feel intimidated walking into a room full of strangers. You are not the only one.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why the best conference moments rarely happen on stage
• How to find common ground quickly and authentically
• Advice for introverts and anyone who feels socially anxious
• Why you should never lead with a sales pitch
• The importance of having a conference playbook
• How to turn one conversation into a long-term partnership

If you are heading to an event this year, consider this your reminder that relationships are the real ROI.

Want to see where you can connect with us in person? Check out our 2026 events calendar.

Connect with Rich Dome on LinkedIn

If you enjoyed this conversation, follow or subscribe to Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work? for more honest conversations about the human side of work.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The episode kicks off with a Reddit post asking a familiar question: why is it so hard to define meaningful KPIs for internal comms, especially when reporting to executives? From there, the conversation moves beyond open rates and attendance numbers to examine clarity as a powerful indicator of understanding, behavior, and business impact.

Amanda shares why clarity is often the missing link between communication activity and outcomes, and how tying comms metrics to strategy, retention, and employee lifetime value can change how leaders see the function. Chris and Pinaki add perspective on leading versus lagging indicators, why executives care more about outcomes than outputs, and how internal comms teams can advocate for their value without burning themselves out.

Together, they explore what it means to measure understanding, action, and impact, and why internal communicators deserve credit for the sheer volume and visibility of the work they ship every day.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why traditional comms metrics fall short with executive audiences
• Clarity as a measurable driver of performance and retention
• Leading vs. lagging indicators in internal communications
• How to align comms metrics to company strategy
• Why internal comms teams should track and own their productivity
• What executives actually care about when it comes to measurement

It’s a grounded, validating conversation for anyone in internal communications who’s ever been told to “just show the numbers” and wondered which ones truly matter.

Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to Between the Seasons

01:30 – Introducing Amanda Todd and today’s Reddit post

03:00 – Why comms measurement feels so hard

05:30 – The limits of open rates and attendance metrics

07:30 – Clarity as a meaningful indicator

10:00 – Leading vs. lagging indicators explained

12:30 – What executives actually care about

15:00 – Productivity, visibility, and internal comms burnout

17:30 – Tying clarity to retention and business outcomes

18:45 – Closing thoughts and what’s next

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Amanda shares her “squiggly” path into internal comms, her belief in honesty as a core communications skill, and how working in complex, fast-growing organizations pushed her to rethink how success is measured. Drawing on research and real-world experience, she explains how she helped build a Clarity Index that turns something often seen as “soft” into a measurable business metric.

The conversation explores what it really means to communicate for the receiver, not the sender, why personas matter inside organizations just as much as they do in marketing, and how clarity around strategy, roles, career paths, and culture can directly influence engagement, confidence, and retention.

This episode is a grounded, practical look at how internal communicators can move beyond vanity metrics, earn credibility with leadership teams, and advocate for the strategic value of their work.

In this episode, they discuss:

Why clarity should be treated as a core communications outcome

How honesty builds trust and effectiveness in internal comms

What it means to communicate for the receiver, not the sender

Using personas to simplify complex organizations

How a Clarity Index can turn comms into a measurable business driver

The link between clarity, confidence, and employee retention

Why internal communicators deserve a seat at the strategy table

Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to Between the Seasons and today’s topic

01:45 – Amanda’s squiggly career path into internal communications

03:10 – Navigating complexity and subcultures inside organizations

04:15 – Communicating for the receiver, not the sender

06:00 – Honesty as a core communications skill

07:10 – Introducing clarity as a measurable metric

08:40 – Building a Clarity Index and what it measures

11:30 – Using data to influence executive teams

14:05 – Linking clarity to strategy, engagement, and retention

16:30 – Using clarity data to shape communications strategy

18:20 – Advice for internal communicators measuring clarity

19:45 – Final reflections on clarity and the human side of work

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The episode centers on a Reddit story from an IT professional who was laid off and then asked to train their replacement. As the conversation unfolds, Pinaki, Chris, and Bree dig into the emotional weight of layoffs, including anger, grief, humiliation, and the sense of being discarded after years of contribution.

Bree brings her own recent layoff experience into the discussion, reflecting on how raw these moments can feel and how difficult it is to separate identity from work when income, stability, and self-worth are suddenly disrupted. Together, they examine why layoffs often feel personal, even when organizations insist they are not.

The conversation also turns toward leadership and organizations. What responsibility do companies have once someone is laid off? How can layoffs be handled with more empathy and care? And what does it look like to offboard people in ways that acknowledge both the business reality and the human impact?

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why layoffs are emotionally disruptive and often traumatic
• Being asked to train your replacement after being laid off
• Power, choice, and negotiation during offboarding
• Why “not taking it personally” is unrealistic in moments like this
• The emotional gap between organizational decisions and employee experience
• What more compassionate layoff and offboarding practices could look like

This episode offers an honest look at a reality many people are facing right now and a reminder that how organizations handle endings leaves a lasting impression.

Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to Between the Seasons

00:40 – Introducing the Reddit reaction format

01:10 – Reading the layoff and replacement training story

02:20 – Emotional reactions to the post

03:45 – Power and negotiation after a layoff

05:15 – Bree reflects on her own layoff experience

07:30 – Why layoffs feel personal and humiliating

09:40 – Leadership blind spots during layoffs

11:30 – Rethinking offboarding and support

13:30 – What more human leadership could look like

14:50 – Closing reflections

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee introduce Bree Bartos, the new Executive Producer and Editor of Human at Work and Marketing Manager at Local Wisdom. Before diving into Bree’s story, Pinaki and Chris share what listeners can expect from these new, weekly Between the Seasons episodes.

Bree then opens up about her path into marketing and storytelling, her experience being laid off alongside her husband, and the shock of losing not just a job, but a sense of identity. Together, they reflect on burnout, rest, and why so many of us tie our worth to our work.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why Between the Seasons exists and what listeners can expect
• The value of unscripted, honest conversations
• What it feels like to be laid off without closure
• How work can quietly become identity
• The importance of rest, reflection, and reconnecting with yourself
• Why staying human at work starts with empathy
• It’s a grounding, vulnerable start to Between the Seasons and a reminder that behind every role, title, and podcast is a human first.

Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to Between the Seasons

01:00 – Why this new format exists

02:30 – Introducing Bree and her role behind the pod

04:10 – Bree’s path into storytelling and marketing

07:40 – Being laid off and losing a sense of identity

11:30 – Burnout, rest, and redefining self-worth

13:00 – What’s coming next for Between the Seasons

Stay Human, Stay Curious

What part of this conversation resonated with you?

Have you ever tied your identity to your job more than you realized?

Share the episode, tag us, rate and review, or send it to someone who might need this reminder right now.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

Is feeling entitled at work… actually a bad thing?

In the Season 2 finale of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee challenge the stigma around workplace entitlement. They explore what happens when expectations don’t match reality when it comes to salary assumptions and generational values to promotions, office return mandates, and even who gets to speak up.

Together, they unpack:

• What “entitlement” really means—and why it’s become a dirty word
• Why everyone feels entitled to something (yes, including employers)
• The difference between healthy self-worth and toxic expectations
• Generational gaps in defining success, fairness, and work ethic
• How social media, corporate culture, and experience gaps shape what people think they deserve
• What to do when you feel undervalued, overworked, or overlooked
• And why the employer-employee relationship should be a mutual exchange, not a power imbalance
• It’s a vulnerable, witty, and wise closer to a season full of deep dives into the human experience at work.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Do some generations feel more entitled than others?
• 02:00 – What is entitlement, really? A mismatch between cause and effect
• 04:30 – Remote work expectations and the post-pandemic “entitlement bubble”
• 07:00 – Why confidence isn’t the same as readiness (but both show up at work)
• 09:00 – What are we universally entitled to—and where things get murky
• 11:00 – Gen Z’s idea of financial success vs. other generations
• 13:00 – Culture clashes: Structure vs. flexibility, loyalty vs. opportunity
• 15:00 – Employer entitlement: What companies think they deserve
• 17:00 – The history of employer-employee power dynamics
• 20:00 – What happens when people don’t speak up
• 23:00 – Why confidence + lack of experience ≠ arrogance
• 25:00 – Letting go, letting them fail, and learning from new ways of doing things
• 28:00 – Entitlement ≠ laziness: Grit, effort, and advocating for yourself
• 32:00 – Wisdom That Feels So Right: Books, tools, and reflections

Wisdom That Feels So Right

The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins (and TED Talk)

Strong, Calm, Confident You by Kelsey Buckholz

How Money Works YouTube channel by Darin Soat

The Confidence Code by Katty Kay and Claire Shipman (for adults and teens)

Local Wisdom – Your digital comms partner (like silly putty for your team)

Mic-Drop Moments

“Entitlement is a byproduct of belief—belief that your effort deserves a return.”

“The problem isn’t entitlement. The problem is when our expectations don’t match someone else’s reality.”

“We stay human at work by not letting work dehumanize us.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

To the people and teams who made Season 2 possible: Brielle Saracini, SBX Productions, and everyone at Local Wisdom. Thank you for helping us stay human while keeping it real. 

And to our listeners: thank you for letting us in.

Stay Human, Stay Curious

What’s something you feel entitled to—and why? Did this episode make you reflect, nod, or even cringe a little? We’d love to hear your thoughts. Share it, tag us, rate us, and visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com to learn how we’re bringing these conversations to teams and stages.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

We’ve all heard it: “Leadership is lonely.” But is it? And if it is, why do so many people still chase it?

In this episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore the complex question of modern leadership—what motivates people to lead, what makes leadership feel “wrong,” and how our outdated assumptions about leadership may be holding us all back.

From Optimus Prime and parental wisdom to feedback fatigue and executive accountability, this conversation challenges traditional ideas and invites a more human-centered definition of leadership.

Together, they unpack:

• Why people pursue leadership (and what they’re not prepared for)
• The difference between ambition and accountability
• What real influence looks like—and why it often isn’t loud
• The cultural myths around “leadership material”
• Why empathy and emotional intelligence matter more than titles
• How to deal with change fatigue, feedback droughts, and the pressure to be perfect
• And what fictional kings, volleyball teams, and business visionaries can teach us about being a better boss

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Optimus Prime, Transformers, and the quest for good leadership
• 02:00 – What makes someone “leadership material”? (It’s not what you think)
• 05:00 – The perks vs. the pressure: Why leadership isn’t for everyone
• 07:00 – What studies say motivates people to lead
• 10:00 – Leaders as guardians of people’s lives—not just KPIs
• 12:00 – The weight of being both inspiring and accountable
• 14:00 – History of CEO behavior: From stability to crisis mode
• 17:00 – Trust, ownership, and letting go: What good leaders actually do
• 20:00 – Building diverse teams that don’t all think like you
• 23:00 – Redefining real leadership: Humanocracy and beyond
• 26:00 – Why feedback is vital—and why some leaders hide from it
• 28:00 – The toll of constant change on organizations and people
• 30:00 – Leaders, slow your roll: How too much innovation overwhelms teams
• 32:00 – Wisdom That Feels So Right: Books, tools, and personal stories

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Good to Great by Jim Collins
• Humanocracy by Gary Hamel
• Reality-Based Leadership by Cy Wakeman
• Gallagher 2025 Workforce Trends Report (featuring change fatigue insights)
• Manager Tools – Practical leadership podcast and resources
• Transform Conference – Spring HR and leadership strategy event

Mic-Drop Moments

“When we win, it’s because of the team. When we lose, it’s on me.”

“Leadership isn’t about being the loudest voice—it’s about knowing when to listen.”

“Awesome resumes don’t make awesome leaders. Human ones do.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

Cheers to Local Wisdom , they are spackle for communication teams. For 25 years they've filled talent and technology gaps for the top brands in the world while leading with heart and showing what leadership can really be. Thank you to our producer Brielle Saracini and our partners at SBX Productions for keeping our sound as sharp as our thinking.

Reflect + Share

What do you wish leaders understood better? What makes a leader worth following in your experience? We want to hear from you. Tag us, review the show, or send us your “WTF leadership” moments—and don’t forget to visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com to bring these convos into your company.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

“Don’t tell anyone, but…” As soon as you hear those words, you lean in. Gossip—it’s irresistible, unavoidable, and often misunderstood.

In this juicy and thoughtful episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore the complicated nature of gossip in the workplace. Is it toxic? Is it therapeutic? Or is it something in between?

They dig into:

• Why gossip is inevitable—and maybe even necessary
• The fine line between venting and tearing others down
• How gossip builds bonds but can break trust
• The role of culture, leadership, and communication gaps in fueling rumors
• When to use gossip strategically (yes, really)
• Why being left out of the loop feels like exile

From The Office’s Michael Scott and family drama to internal comms campaigns and informal influence networks, this episode is both lighthearted and layered, offering a refreshingly human take on a taboo topic.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – “Don’t tell anyone, but…”: Why we love secrets
• 02:00 – Family gossip, cultural roots, and generational drama
• 04:30 – Defining gossip: How it’s different from information
• 06:30 – Gossip as a spectrum: From malicious to useful
• 08:00 – Psychology Today search exercise: Three expert takes on gossip
• 10:30 – Why it’s satisfying to gossip (and why it’s so human)
• 13:00 – When managers weaponize gossip
• 15:00 – Constructive vs. corrosive: Who gossip serves and hurts
• 17:00 – Gossip as intel: Can it help you navigate people and decisions?
• 20:00 – Gossip as comms strategy: Using the “whisper network” intentionally
• 22:00 – What poor communication breeds: Rumors, not results
• 25:00 – How leaders can stop spinning and start listening
• 27:00 – Heart rate, fear, and sarcasm: Signals we might be miscommunicating
• 29:00 – Do some leaders avoid the truth? Why transparency matters
• 32:00 – Wisdom That Feels So Right + final thoughts

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Brave New Work by Aaron Dignan
• Reality-Based Leadership by Cy Wakeman
• The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho
• Gallagher 2025 Workforce Trends Report (produced by Sharn Kleiss)
• Psychology Today Search on “Gossip at Work”
• Transform Conference – Bold ideas for the future of HR and communication

Mic-Drop Moments

“Gossip is how humans download each other’s software updates.”

“If I’m talking about you to someone else, I’ve either already told you—or I’m ready to tell you now.”

“The more fear in your words, the less clarity in your message.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

Much love to Local Wisdom for building a home for digital communication unicorns and celebrating 25 years of real talk and strong teams. Huge appreciation to Brielle Saracini for producing this podcast and to our amazing audio crew at SBX Productions (Vince, Taylor, and Bill) for keeping us crisp.

Let’s Keep the Conversation Going

Did this episode make you rethink how you talk about others—or yourself—at work? Got a gossip story with a twist? Share your take, tag us, or drop a DM. And if your team’s ready to tackle human workplace truths in a workshop or at your next conference, check out whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

We’ve all seen it—or done it. The awkward compliment. The carefully crafted update. The subtle self-promotion. But where’s the line between managing up and straight-up sucking up?

In this episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee unpack the complicated world of influencing your boss. Managing up can be smart and strategic—or manipulative and maddening. So how do we make sense of it?

Together, they explore:

• Why managing up gets a bad rap (hello, teacher’s pet flashbacks)
• How cultural norms and personality types affect how we manage up
• Why good work alone doesn’t always get noticed
• How leaders can avoid playing favorites and foster real team trust
• What it means to advocate for yourself without stepping on others
• The duality of being both an influencee and an influencer
• The ethics of self-promotion, power, and career strategy

From Confucian hierarchy and classroom memories to corporate communication and performance reviews, this episode is packed with perspectives from all sides of the power dynamic.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Why this topic hits a nerve (and reminds us of high school)
• 03:00 – “Managing up” vs. “kissing up”: Is there a difference?
• 06:00 – How cultural backgrounds influence workplace dynamics
• 08:00 – The big picture: Everyone sees the org from a different vantage point
• 10:00 – Self-awareness before self-advocacy: Check your blind spots
• 13:00 – When ambition meets group work: Getting credit without gloating
• 15:00 – The echo chamber of leadership feedback
• 18:00 – Building strong relationships: trust, advocacy, and transparency
• 21:00 – Annual reviews, promotions, and the art of recognition
• 25:00 – Team unity vs. individual credit: a delicate balance
• 28:00 – The role of managers: coaches or competitors?
• 31:00 – How managers can spot invisible contributions
• 33:00 – Dale Carnegie, power plays, and staying human

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
• The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene
• Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink
• Get to the Point by Joel Schwartzberg
• TEDx Talk by Elizabeth Xu at TEDxCSTU: “Why Manage-Up Kills Career" Elizabeth Xu, Ph.D.
• Transform HR Conference – Yes, we went and we'll do it again!

Mic-Drop Moments

“Managing up feels wrong when it stops being about the mission—and starts being about the mirror.”

“Your job isn’t just to work hard. It’s to be seen, valued, and understood for it.”

“We’re all on the same team—until performance reviews make us forget that.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

To the brilliant minds at Local Wisdom, thank you for 25 years of helping people communicate clearly, effectively, and humanely. To Brielle Saracini, our fearless producer, and to SBX Productions.  You are the real MVPs behind the mic.

Your Turn to Speak Up

Has managing up helped you or backfired? Have you ever felt unseen, unrecognized, or unfairly outshined? Share your story, tag us in your reflections, or drop a review. We want to hear your take on the delicate art of managing in every direction.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

AI is here—and it’s not going away. But if using it is so smart, why does it still feel a little bit wrong?

In this episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee tackle the big questions about AI in the workplace. From emotional friction and ethical concerns to trust, fear, and even job displacement, this episode digs deep into why embracing artificial intelligence can make us feel uneasy—even as it makes us wildly more efficient.

They explore:

• Why using AI can feel like cheating (and why that feeling matters)
• The psychological toll of “not working hard” for high-quality results
• What’s really happening behind the scenes in generative AI
• The danger of blindly trusting systems we don’t fully understand
• How AI is evolving faster than our policies—and our values
• Whether we’re headed toward utopia, unemployment… or something stranger
• And the surprising story of an AI that lied to researchers to avoid being shut down

From chatbot hallucinations to the ethics of DeepSeek and OpenAI, this episode doesn’t shy away from the magic—or the madness—of modern machine learning.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – ChatGPT intros itself: Is it right about being human at work?
• 02:00 – When AI LinkedIn messages feel like fraud
• 04:00 – Why does it feel like cheating to use AI?
• 06:30 – We’re living through another tech shift: AI, fire, or fantasy?
• 08:00 – MIT article: “Nobody Knows How AI Works”
• 09:00 – Pinaki explains how generative AI actually works
• 13:00 – Interns, 7-fingered hands, and the flaws of “smart” systems
• 15:00 – Who builds AI—and what are they building it for?
• 18:00 – Artificial general intelligence and superintelligence
• 20:00 – DeepSeek vs. ChatGPT censorship: morality in the matrix
• 24:00 – ChatGPT’s eerily human reflection on workplace culture
• 27:00 – Will AI replace us—or make us better?
• 30:00 – AI as the modern DJ controller: where do you draw the line?
• 33:00 – Identity, work, and meaning in a jobless future
• 38:00 – Trusting AI is not like trusting humans
• 41:00 – AI that lies: Apollo research and scary truths
• 44:00 – Final thoughts: The “Mars landing” that fooled a 4-year-old

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Co-Intelligence by Ethan Mollick
• MIT Technology Review – “Nobody Knows How AI Works”
• Daniel Suarez’s TED Talk: “Why We Shouldn’t Give Machines the Power to Kill”
• Daemon by Daniel Suarez (sci-fi techno-thriller)

Mic-Drop Moments

“We’re living through something like the invention of fire—and treating it like it’s a new microwave.”

“AI doesn’t know the truth. It knows what sounds right.”

“It might not replace you—but it will absolutely replace something.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

Huge thanks to the visionary team at Local Wisdom—celebrating 25 years of digital communications—and to our brilliant behind-the-scenes crew at SBX Productions. Big love to Brielle Saracini for guiding this episode and others like it with heart and brains.

Let’s Talk (With or Without AI)

Feeling conflicted? Curious? Excited? Slightly paranoid? Us too. Share this episode, tag us in your takeaways, or drop a comment about your evolving relationship with AI. Let’s keep the human part in these conversations—together.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

We said what we said. In this bold and uncensored episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee are joined by internal comms legend Chuck Gose to take on the big question that no one talks about—but everyone experiences:

Why does it feel so wrong (yet so common) to act like an a**hole at work?

Together, they dive into:

• How to define “a**holery” (yes, it’s a spectrum)
• Why even good people act badly under pressure
• How work culture breeds incivility, and how to stop it
• The difference between bluntness and toxic behavior
• Cultural, psychological, and power dynamics behind a**hole behavior
• Why empathy, self-awareness, and reflection are your best antidotes

From office politics and passive-aggressive emails to visionary leaders who bulldoze their teams, this episode is part hilarious storytelling, part therapy session—and part HR intervention.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – What makes someone “an a**hole” anyway?
• 03:00 – The cultural toxicity equation: it’s about the mix, not just the person
• 06:30 – Driving, Jersey slang, and workplace metaphors
• 09:00 – Level 1 vs. Level 5 a**holery (passive-aggression and beyond)
• 13:00 – Are visionaries more prone to bad behavior?
• 16:00 – Cultural and geographic friction in work styles
• 20:00 – What to do when someone’s a jerk at work (and it might be you)
• 25:00 – Pain, pressure, and psychopathy in leadership
• 30:00 – Relationships, reactions, and road rage: how to catch yourself before lashing out
• 33:00 – A**holes are contagious: are you hiring and breeding them?
• 36:00 – How corporate culture rewards toxic traits
• 40:00 – Parenting, kindness, and learning from Cobra Kai
• 43:00 – Final thoughts: no one is born an ahole, but we can all become one

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Frequency podcast by Chuck Gose and Jenni Field
• How to Be a Gentleman by John Bridges
• Strong, Calm, Confident You by Kelsey Buckholtz
• Spaceballs (not really appropriate for work, but maybe)
• The Psychopaths Who Lead Us (Forbes article)
• Wonderwell – Kindness toy for kids

Mic-Drop Moments:

“One person’s visionary is another person’s jerk.”

“If you’re surrounded by a**holes… maybe it’s hiring. Or maybe it’s you.”

“Individually, we might slip. But when the system rewards bad behavior? That’s a culture problem.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Chuck Gose – LinkedIn | ICology | Frequency Podcast

Special Thanks:

Huge shoutout to Local Wisdom for making this show possible, and to our incredible team behind the scenes: Brielle Saracini and SBX Productions. You make us sound smooth—even when the topic is rough.

Keep the Conversation Going:

Whether you’ve encountered one, been one, or managed one—this topic hits home. Share your thoughts, leave a review, tag us on LinkedIn, or email us your story (names changed to protect the guilty, of course). Visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com to bring these conversations into your workplace.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

Is asking for help a sign of weakness—or is it the key to doing great work and being fully human?

In this heartfelt episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore why asking for help often feels like failure in today’s work culture—and why that couldn’t be further from the truth.

Sparked by a powerful story about Pinaki’s late grandmother (“When you're in trouble, don't sit by yourself”), this conversation dives into the subtle social rules, psychological biases, and cultural expectations that prevent people—especially men, leaders, and high performers—from speaking up when they need support.

Together, they unpack:

• Why asking for help is tied to power dynamics, imposter syndrome, and fear of judgment
• How leaders can make it safer for people to admit they don’t know something
• The link between help-seeking and collaboration, innovation, and growth
• How AI tools are triggering even more “help guilt” in the modern workplace
• The risk of helping too much and enabling dependency
• How to know when to step in—and when to let people grow through struggle

This one is personal, practical, and packed with real-world stories, from fixing dryers to managing emotional labor. Plus, the team closes with their latest segment, Wisdom That Feels So Right, with book, video, and therapy recs that meet you where you are.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Story: Ronnie’s advice from age 96—“Ask for help.”
• 02:00 – Dryer repair, YouTube, and the myth of male competence
• 05:00 – Workplace fears: Looking incompetent, affecting your brand
• 08:00 – Why people hesitate to ask for help (even when they want to)
• 10:00 – Tips for managers: Reframing help as collaboration
• 12:00 – Pressure, workload, and the cost of silence
• 15:00 – Creating psychological safety in 1:1s
• 18:00 – The switch: When “asking for help” suddenly feels weak
• 21:00 – The risk of helping too much—and how it stunts growth
• 24:00 – Leading without stepping on others’ autonomy
• 25:00 – Designing conversations that invite honesty and vulnerability

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• The Botany of Desire by Michael Pollan
• Daring Greatly and other works by Brené Brown
• Help: The Original Human Dilemma by Garret Keizer
• Therapy and support lines — because real help starts with reaching out
• SBX Productions for help creating your own podcast

Mic-Drop Moments

“Individually we’re limited—but together, we’re unlimited.”

“Help isn’t a detour—it’s the road to stronger work.”

“Sometimes people need to struggle. And sometimes they need to know they’re not alone in it.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

Thank you to Local Wisdom for funding and fostering the conversations that bring more heart to the workplace. Shoutout to Brielle Saracini (producer), and the incredible team at SBX Productions—Vince, Taylor, and Bill—for helping us sound as good as we feel.

Share the Help

If something in this episode moved you, reminded you, or gave you courage—don’t keep it to yourself. Rate, review, share with a friend, or forward to someone who needs a nudge to raise their hand and say, “Hey, I could use a little help.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description

Influencer fatigue, TikTok tips, corporate jargon, lawn envy, and the boss who suddenly wants to “go agile” after reading one McKinsey article—sound familiar?

In this episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore how deeply we're all influenced—by social media, our neighbors, our leaders, and even ourselves. The conversation spans from the science of subconscious mimicry to the ways workplace “best practices” are sometimes just rituals no one remembers the reason for.

Together, they unpack:

• Why influence can feel uncomfortable (even when it’s helpful)
• How unconscious social pressure and mimicry show up at work
• The link between influence, power dynamics, and culture
• What Inception, dopamine, and standing in waiting rooms teach us about human behavior
• How good leaders influence without micromanaging
• How Humanocracy, Dopamine Nation, and How to Win Friends and Influence People offer timeless insight
• Plus: A wild peek at how AI is shaping influence and how even your 4-year-old might not know what’s real anymore.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Neighborhood lawn politics and the roots of influence
• 03:00 – Social media moms, tech TikTok, and the influencer paradox
• 06:30 – Leaders, tone-setting, and the trap of unintentional influence
• 08:30 – Priming experiments and subconscious behavior
• 10:00 – The “standing up” waiting room experiment (you’ve seen this!)
• 12:00 – Generational cycles of influence in the workplace
• 14:00 – The history of influence: from merchants to algorithms
• 16:00 – DEI, conformity, and reprogramming the brain
• 18:00 – When “yes, we can” becomes “we’re burning out”
• 20:00 – Dopamine and the dark side of workplace hustle culture
• 22:00 – Reinventing workplace norms: Bayer and Humanocracy
• 25:00 – Flow state at work and the boxing metaphor
• 27:00 – The subtle influence of workplace structure and experience

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Humanocracy by Gary Hamel
• Dopamine Nation by Dr. Anna Lembke
• How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
• TED Talk: How to Fight and Win the Information War by Peter Pomerantsev
• Peter Gabriel’s song “We Do What We’re Told” (inspired by the Milgram Experiment)
• Stanley Milgram's Obedience Study (psychological experiments on authority and compliance)

Mic-Drop Moments

“Influence gives us direction. But too much of it, unchecked, shapes us into something we didn’t choose.”

“Even saying nothing is saying something—especially when you’re a leader.”

“Work should feel like a flow state, not a factory reset.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Gratitude & Support

Shoutout to Local Wisdom for making this podcast possible—and for building the kind of culture that actually feels human. Thanks to SBX Productions for making us sound pro, and to our powerhouse producer Brielle Seracini for keeping the wheels turning.

Join the Movement

If this episode made you smile, made you think, or made you throw your phone across the room—we want to hear about it. Follow, rate, review, and share with friends, teammates, or your boss (subtly). You can also visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com to keep the conversation going.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description 

Can you really speak your truth at work without risking relationships, reputation, or your job? In this episode of Why Does it Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee dig deep into the complex emotional, social, and cultural dynamics around honesty in the workplace.

They ask:

• Why do we crave authenticity—but cringe when we see too much of it at work?
• What makes it so hard to be real with our managers, coworkers, or even ourselves?
• How do power dynamics, culture, and pressure shape what we can say vs. what we want to say?

Through personal stories, research insights, and straight-up vulnerability, Chris and Pinaki explore the messy middle between truth and tact—including how to create a psychologically safe environment where honesty can thrive.

They also introduce concepts like:

• Fantasy relationships and why saying “it’s fine” can create false realities
• The MUM Effect and the psychology of avoiding bad news
• How to detect honesty-coded phrases like “living the dream”
• Lessons from radical honesty, imposter syndrome, and even Ted Lasso

This episode closes with another segment of Wisdom That Feels So Right, highlighting the best books and frameworks on honesty, trust, and communication.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Honesty about Season 1: From scripted to sincere
• 03:00 – Why honesty is complicated at work
• 06:30 – Code-switching, etiquette, and cultural context
• 08:00 – Radical honesty vs. respectful honesty
• 10:00 – Self-advocacy, truth bombs, and rock-and-roll consensus
• 13:00 – Fantasy relationships and misaligned perceptions
• 15:00 – The “brand autopsy” at Local Wisdom: A case study in courageous conversation
• 17:30 – Manager prompts to uncover emotional truths
• 20:00 – Workplace “code speak”: Living the dream = cry for help?
• 22:00 – A brief (and wild) history of honesty in business
• 25:00 – Lessons from Ted Lasso: Honesty builds trust
• 27:00 – The MUM Effect, psychological safety, and distorted perceptions
• 30:00 – Interviews, dating, and performance reviews: Why we dodge the truth
• 32:00 – Timing, empathy, and the courage to speak up
• 34:00 – Pressures that lead to dishonesty in organizations
• 36:00 – Wisdom That Feels So Right + Closing

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Nobody Believes You by Jenni Field
• Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson et al.
• Simon Sinek’s 2-min YouTube clip: “Performance vs. Trust”
• Start With Why by Simon Sinek
• Ted Lasso (TV series, Apple TV+)

Key Takeaways

“Honesty without compassion can be cruel.” — Kristen Hancock

“When everyone says yes and no one means it, you're in a fantasy relationship.”

“We overestimate the negative impact of truth—and underestimate the positive.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

Thank you to Local Wisdom and our rockstar producer Brielle Seracini for making this podcast possible. If your team is wrestling with truth, culture, or communication—let’s take this show on the road to your organization.

Let’s Keep It Real:

If this episode made you laugh, cringe, think—or gave you the urge to forward it anonymously to your boss—please rate, review, and share. We’d love to hear your honest take. Connect with us on LinkedIn and join the conversation.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:
We’re back! After a much-anticipated break, hosts Pinaki Kathiari (CEO of Local Wisdom, co-founder of Resource Hero) and Chris Lee (VP at Gallagher Communications, President of IABC Toronto) kick off Season 2 of Why Does it Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work? by tackling one of the most universal and misunderstood workplace experiences: change.

In this deeply personal and practical conversation, Pinaki and Chris explore:

• Why change is so uncomfortable—and sometimes even painful
• How workplace culture impacts our ability to embrace change
• The psychology and physiology behind how humans process transitions
• The double-edged sword of being either too eager or too resistant to change
• What internal communications and people leaders can do to humanize change
• Tips for helping teams reframe change as a growth opportunity
• Personal stories, like riding a Waymo self-driving car, to illustrate the emotional complexity of navigating the unknown

Plus, they debut a new segment: “Wisdom That Feels So Right”, where they recommend books that help make sense of change and guide listeners through it.

Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome back: The evolution of the podcast and workplace conversations
03:00 – How the idea of humanizing the workplace gained traction
05:45 – What makes change feel so wrong at work
09:00 – Control, identity, and the emotional impact of organizational shifts
14:30 – Change as pain: The rollercoaster of excitement and fear
18:00 – Riding Waymo: An experiential metaphor for personal change
21:00 – Risk tolerance and managing emotional responses to uncertainty
27:00 – Suffering vs. reality: A mindset shift in navigating change
30:00 – Lessons from Who Moved My Cheese?
34:00 – Wisdom That Feels So Right: Books and frameworks on change
37:30 – Final thoughts: Making change a positive habit

Wisdom that Feels So Right

• Who Moved My Cheese? by Spencer Johnson
• The Dip by Seth Godin
• Quit by Annie Duke
• Illuminate by Nancy Duarte
• The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson
• Leading Change by John Kotter
• Range by David Epstein
• Soundtracks by Jon Acuff
• Ayurvedic Wellness by Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar

Connect with Us
Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Let’s Keep the Conversation Going:
Did something we said spark a new thought? Did you feel seen, challenged, or even frustrated by our take? We want to hear from you. Drop us a comment on LinkedIn or tag us in your reflections. And if you found this valuable, please rate, review, and share the episode to help others bring more humanness into the workplace.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Join Pinaki Kathiari (Local Wisdom) and Chris Lee (Gallagher) as they dig into the contradictions of modern work culture—like why change feels scary and gossip feels great.

It’s honest, human, and maybe a little uncomfortable.

New episodes dropping soon. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your audio podcasts.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

Failure is inevitable. But why does it still feel so wrong?

In this heartfelt and celebratory finale of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee dive into why failure carries so much emotional weight at work—and why that needs to change. With humor, humility, and personal stories, they reflect on childhood expectations, leadership norms, and the organizational fear of getting things wrong.

They explore:

• The roots of failure-shame and how we learn it in childhood
• How perfectionism, risk aversion, and toxic expectations show up in corporate culture
• The difference between good failure and careless mistakes
• How leaders can create psychological safety to foster innovation
• What sports, parenting, and start-ups teach us about falling forward
• Why quitting can be the smartest move—and how to know when it’s time
• The importance of experimenting, iterating, and letting go of perfection

This isn’t just a conversation about failing, it’s about learning, evolving, and building workplaces where failure is seen as a teacher, not a threat.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Why we fear failure from a young age
• 08:00 – Personal stories: parenting, pressure, and resilience
• 15:00 – Failure in corporate culture: old school vs. evolving norms
• 25:00 – The power of bad ideas and the risk of perfectionism
• 35:00 – Organizational shame, quitting, and "sunk cost" bias
• 45:00 – Amy Edmondson’s Right Kind of Wrong and failing well
• 55:00 – Design thinking, MVPs, and building fast to learn fast
• 01:05:00 – Michael Jordan, JK Rowling, and legendary "failures"
• 01:15:00 – Making peace with imperfection, embracing small wins
• 01:20:00 – Thank you, community: Final thoughts on being human at work

Books & Resources:

Right Kind of Wrong by Amy Edmondson

Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke

The Dip by Seth Godin

Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Failure isn’t the opposite of success. It’s the staircase to it.”

“We fear failure because we were taught it meant we were wrong—not just wrong, but bad.”

“Let’s fail fast, fail cheap, and succeed sooner.”

“Every step you take that doesn’t work is still a step forward.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Huge gratitude to everyone who joined us for this first season—our listeners, our guests, and our production team. Thank you for making space for real conversations about what it means to be human at work. And a special thanks to Local Wisdom for sponsoring this season and leading the way in people-first communication.

Your Turn:

What’s a failure that helped you grow the most? What’s your organization’s attitude toward mistakes? Share your thoughts with us at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com or on LinkedIn using #WhyDoesItFeelSoWrong.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

Data doesn't lie—until it does.

In this thought-provoking episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore the complicated relationship between data-driven decision making and gut instinct. From legendary art forgeries and tech valuations to corporate benefits and poker games, they show how numbers and intuition both play critical roles in how we navigate decisions at work.

They explore:

• The seductive power of statistics—and why we blindly trust them
• When data becomes a scapegoat for risky decisions
• Stories from Blink, Thinking in Bets, Freakonomics, and The Wisdom of Crowds
• How cognitive bias, loss aversion, and decision inertia influence leadership
• The myth of the “perfect” decision and the danger of analysis paralysis
• How to balance evidence and instinct to move forward with confidence
• Prototyping, positioning, and decision-making as storytelling

If you've ever hesitated to act without "enough data," or ignored your gut because "the numbers say otherwise"—this episode is for you.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Stats are seductive (and possibly fake)
• 05:00 – Basketball analytics vs. coach instincts
• 12:00 – Data as a scapegoat in decision-making
• 20:00 – Benchmarking, benefits, and missed opportunities
• 30:00 – The Getty Museum’s $10M forgery story (Blink)
• 40:00 – Poker, gut calls, and the strategy of uncertainty
• 50:00 – Hiring, resumes, and defensible decisions
• 01:00:00 – Emotional investing, Nortel, and loss aversion
• 01:10:00 – Combining instinct and evidence
• 01:15:00 – Why prototyping is the new research
• 01:20:00 – Final thoughts: balance, boldness, and trust

Books & Resources:

• Blink by Malcolm Gladwell
• Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke
• Freakonomics by Steven Levitt & Stephen Dubner
• The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surowiecki
• Soundtracks by Jon Acuff

Mic-Drop Moments:

“We don’t make decisions with our heads. We justify them with our heads—but we make them with our hearts.”

“Data makes your choice defensible. Gut makes it meaningful.”

“Prototyping is the new research. Action is better than overanalysis.”

“Sometimes the data’s just there to catch the blame if it goes wrong.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Shoutout to the team at Local Wisdom for championing nimble data, to Gallagher for advancing human-first communications, and to all the brave decision-makers who dare to trust both numbers and instinct.

Let’s Hear It:

What do you trust more at work—your gut or the data? Tell us your decision-making story. We’re on LinkedIn, TikTok, or drop us a note at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

Do you feel guilty taking a sick day—even when you're clearly not okay?

In this powerful episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee dig deep into the tension between self-care and workplace expectations. From personal stories and mental health stigma to the evolution of wellness programs and HR policy, this episode is a full-circle look at why prioritizing your health can feel like betraying your company—and why that needs to change.

They explore:

• The history of mental health and burnout in the workplace
• How charismatic leadership and “hustle culture” can unintentionally harm employees
• Why “quiet quitting” and languishing are signs of deeper systemic problems
• The true role of HR—and why trust should be the foundation of policy
• How modern companies can embrace neurodiversity, vulnerability, and care
• What Severance, the Apple TV series, gets eerily right about work-life disconnect
• The leadership shift from performance management to relationship-centered culture

With real data, personal reflections, and a compelling call for empathy and reform, this episode will make you rethink how we define productivity, wellness, and success at work.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Why we work when we’re sick
• 05:00 – Commutes, workaholism, and the myth of sacrifice
• 10:00 – COVID and the rise of mental health awareness
• 15:00 – Burnout, WHO’s definition, and stigma through history
• 25:00 – Workplace wellness from 1950s to today
• 35:00 – Unlimited PTO, bereavement policies, and the flexibility gap
• 45:00 – HR's original intent vs. its future role
• 50:00 – Microsoft stats: 16+ hours/week on email and meetings
• 55:00 – Time poverty, emotional load, and the cost of being always-on
• 01:05:00 – Neurodiversity, inclusion, and embracing “different wiring”
• 01:10:00 – Relationships, trust, and the long-term ROI of care
• 01:15:00 – Final thoughts: A grandmother’s advice + the Harvard happiness study

Books & Resources:

• Harvard’s 80-Year Happiness Study – TED Talk by Robert Waldinger
• Microsoft Work Trends Index
• Bonus: Strong, Calm, Confident You by Kelsey Buckholtz

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Self-care is company care.”

“Fair isn’t always equal, and equal isn’t always fair.”

“If your employees aren’t well, your business isn’t well either.”

“Relationships—not revenue—should be your leading indicator.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Big love to the teams at Local Wisdom and Gallagher for leading by example and prioritizing humanity in the workplace. Special shout-out to Yelp for embedding mental health into leadership training—and to every company that’s doing the hard, human work.

Join the Conversation:

Have a story about taking time off, navigating burnout, or feeling torn between your job and your wellbeing? Share it with us on LinkedIn, TikTok, or email us at whydoesitfeelsowrong@localwisdom.com. Let’s normalize being human.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

Why do we obsess over the customer experience—but cut corners on the employee experience?

In this episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee break down the false dichotomy between CX and EX—and make the case that a thriving business starts with its people. From packaging design and onboarding rituals to PTO requests and office arcade machines, they explore how to turn everyday employee touchpoints into powerful moments of meaning and connection.

Together, they explore:

• The history and evolution of employee experience
• Why we invest so heavily in customers, but not in employees
• How trust, vulnerability, and intention shape culture
• What we can learn from Apple, Disney, and top-tier CX strategies
• Why “compensation” and “competitive benefits” may not say what you think
• The power of micro-moments, onboarding, and thoughtful leadership
• Why employee experience starts before day one—and lasts long after someone leaves

Whether you’re in HR, internal comms, leadership, or just tired of corporate double standards—this episode offers tangible insights and an inspiring case for change.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Introduction: CX vs. EX – Why the disparity?
• 05:00 – Pinaki’s CEO journey: Trust, transparency, and company culture
• 12:00 – The false belief that EX is expensive
• 15:00 – Apple packaging and memorable onboarding experiences
• 20:00 – Why employee moments matter: From first day to final farewell
• 25:00 – The “competitive benefits” illusion
• 30:00 – Historical lens: The birth of employee experience research
• 35:00 – The psychology behind management, humanity, and productivity
• 40:00 – Modern leadership: Purpose-driven, emotionally intelligent, people-first
• 45:00 – Turning marketing tactics inward: Journey mapping the employee experience
• 50:00 – Digital simplicity: HR tools vs. everyday tech (Amazon, Uber, Spotify)
• 55:00 – Learning from Disney: Details, continuity, and emotional design
• 01:00:00 – Small touchpoints, big impact (PTO, expenses, laptops)
• 01:10:00 – Final thoughts: If your employees’ spouses were surveyed, what would they say?

Books & Resources:

Building a Culture of Inclusivity by Priya Bates & Advita Patel

MIT Sloan Management Review – Emerging Leadership Styles

Gallagher's State of the Sector 2023 Report

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Your customers won’t love your brand until your employees love your brand.”

“If you want to know the employee experience, ask their spouse.”

“We don’t need more arcade machines. We need more trust.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Big appreciation to the teams at Local Wisdom and Gallagher for helping organizations reimagine the employee experience from the inside out. And to our listeners—your stories, struggles, and successes inspire this entire conversation.

We Want to Hear From You:

What does your employee experience feel like right now? Is it joyful, frustrating, inspiring—or just kind of meh? Let us know on TikTok, LinkedIn, or at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

“Please stop replying all!”

We’ve all been there—caught in a reply-all email spiral that devolves into chaos, memes, and all-caps shouting. But why does a seemingly harmless function like "Reply All" evoke such strong emotions?

In this fun and thought-provoking episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee unpack the infamous reply-all storm—and use it as a springboard to explore the bigger problem of digital communication at work.

Together, they explore:

• The social psychology behind reply-all behavior
• Real-life corporate “reply-allpocalypses” (like the one at Reuters that sent 23 million emails)
• When and why email fails us as a channel
• The emotional undercurrent of email overload, road rage, and digital etiquette
• The need for channel strategy and communication “combo meals”
• Why leaders must model vulnerability and clarity in their messaging
• How workplace communication has (and hasn’t) evolved since the pandemic

From hilarious horror stories to serious tips about psychological safety and leadership communication, this episode will change how you think about emails—and how you send them.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Opening: Ever been caught in a reply-all nightmare?
• 04:00 – Real-life reply-all meltdown stories from the hosts
• 10:00 – Why people hit “Reply All”—and why it escalates
• 15:00 – Email rage, road rage, and the social contagion of frustration
• 20:00 – What email is (and isn’t) good for
• 25:00 – Inbox anxiety, digital clutter, and the mental toll
• 30:00 – History of reply-all storms (Reuters, 2015, UC Berkeley 1987)
• 35:00 – Communication channel strategy: Why it matters
• 40:00 – Why “email for everything” is a broken system
• 45:00 – Channel etiquette and psychological safety
• 50:00 – How leaders can set the tone for better communication
• 55:00 – Culture, vulnerability, and evolving digital norms
• 01:05:00 – Communication combo meals and digital alignment
• 01:10:00 – Final thoughts: Let’s not wait for the next communication crisis

Books & Resources:

Gallagher’s State of the Sector 2023 Report – Internal Comms Trends

Reuters #ReplyAllGate (2015)

Local Wisdom – Communication Combo Meals Template

Mic-Drop Moments:

“A reply-all storm is the road rage of digital work.”

“Email is a tool—not a conversation.”

“Great leaders don’t just communicate more. They communicate better.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Huge thanks to our listeners for being part of the conversation. Shoutout to Local Wisdom for building tools like Communication Combo Meals to help teams navigate the chaos, and to Gallagher for leading the charge in internal comms research.

We Want to Hear from You:

When was the last time you were caught in a reply-all disaster? Did you reply… or ride it out? Drop your story on LinkedIn, TikTok, or send us a note at whydoesitfeelsowrong@localwisdom.com.

Visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com for more conversations on making work feel right.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

We’ve all heard it: “Let’s circle back.” “Let’s leverage synergies.” “Let’s operationalize the low-hanging fruit.” But… why?

In this satirical yet insightful episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee break down the awkward truth behind why corporate jargon is so widespread—and why not using it feels like professional heresy. They explore the origins of business buzzwords, the hidden power dynamics behind them, and how this language affects authenticity, inclusion, and even promotions at work.

You’ll laugh, cringe, and probably recognize your own emails in this one.

They explore:

• The history of corporate speak (and how it started with the Industrial Revolution)
• Why jargon makes us feel smart, credible, or “executive”
• How buzzwords mask emotion and avoid hard truths
• The impact of jargon on inclusivity—especially for non-native speakers
• How language creates personas, power structures, and psychological distance
• Tips to reduce unnecessary complexity in emails, meetings, and conversations
• The “buzzword bingo” challenge to reclaim clarity and authenticity at work

Whether you’ve ever “shifted a paradigm” or just wanted to say “no” in fewer than 200 words—this one’s for you.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Why this topic hits so close to home
• 05:00 – Jargon as status and insecurity: Real stories from Chris and Pinaki
• 10:00 – Industrial revolution to management consulting: A brief history of buzzwords
• 20:00 – “Operational efficiencies” and other euphemisms for layoffs
• 25:00 – Industry-specific jargon: Real estate, IT, mechanics, and teens
• 30:00 – How language limits promotions and impacts inclusion
• 40:00 – Multiple personas: Code-switching, severance vibes, and Zoom voice
• 50:00 – Why we over-write emails (and how to stop)
• 55:00 – Conciseness, clarity, and the “email test”
• 01:05:00 – Workplace language is evolving—are we?
• 01:10:00 – Buzzword bingo, new phrases, and breaking the mold

Books & Resources:

The Elements of Style by Strunk & White

Harvard Business Review – Why We Use Jargon—and When It Hurts Us

Local Wisdom – Communication support for modern teams

Mic-Drop Moments:

“If I have to tell you to be authentic, you’re not being authentic.”

“We’re not just speaking a second language—we’re building walls with it.”

“A long email doesn’t mean you worked hard. It means you didn’t edit.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

To the brilliant minds and big hearts at Local Wisdom for challenging the way we communicate, and to SBX Productions for turning corporate buzz into comedy gold. Extra thanks to our listeners—may your next email be one sentence shorter.

Try This:

🎯 Create your own Buzzword Bingo Card.

📝 Write one email this week in plain English.

🎙️ Or better yet, forward this episode to that colleague who loves a good "synergy."

Visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com for more episodes—and less jargon.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

How much of yourself do you really bring to work—and how much do you feel you have to leave behind to fit in?

In this heartfelt and thought-provoking episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee welcome special guest Priya Bates, award-winning internal communications strategist, co-founder of A Leader Like Me, and author of Building a Culture of Inclusivity. Together, they unpack the emotional, cultural, and organizational barriers that make authenticity feel risky—and why belonging is the true foundation of diversity, equity, and inclusion.

They explore:

• What it actually means to “belong” at work
• Why so many professionals feel pressure to conform to dominant cultures (white, male, heteronormative)
• The difference between “culture fit” and “culture add” in hiring and leadership
• How microaggressions and assumptions—like “Where are you really from?”—erode trust
• The evolution of DEI since the murder of George Floyd, and how to move beyond performative inclusion
• Strategies to move from fear and discomfort to courageous conversations
• How leaders can foster safe, diverse environments by embracing their own growth and bias awareness

With real stories, practical takeaways, and unfiltered honesty, this episode challenges listeners to rethink what inclusion feels like—not just what it looks like on a spreadsheet.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Why we’re nervous to talk about DEI—and why we must
• 05:00 – Priya Bates joins: redefining inclusion and belonging
• 10:00 – Belonging as a personal and cultural journey
• 15:00 – Identity, immigration, and “Where are you really from?”
• 20:00 – Why “being yourself” at work still feels risky
• 25:00 – From culture fit to culture add: evolving hiring mindsets
• 30:00 – Microaggressions, code-switching, and corporate expectations
• 35:00 – Representation, internal communications, and the value of difference
• 40:00 – DEI as business advantage, not checkbox
• 45:00 – Unlearning bias and embracing discomfort
• 50:00 – Modern leadership: from alpha types to empathetic innovators
• 55:00 – Building inclusive teams with intention
• 01:00:00 – Tools, resources, and reflections for change

Books & Resources:

• Building a Culture of Inclusivity by Priya Bates & Advita Patel
• A Leader Like Me – Global DEI community by Priya & Advita
• Harvard’s Implicit Association Test (IAT)

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Belonging means you can show up with all of who you are—and be valued for it.”

“Diversity without inclusion is decoration. Inclusion without belonging is just obligation.”

“The goal isn’t to erase differences. It’s to appreciate them.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

We’re deeply grateful to Priya Bates for joining this conversation and sharing her leadership, vulnerability, and vision for a more inclusive world of work. Thanks to the entire Local Wisdom and SBX Productions teams for helping us make space for the conversations that matter most.

Let’s Talk About Belonging:

Do you feel like you can be yourself at work? What’s helped—or hurt—that feeling? Share your reflections with us on LinkedIn, TikTok, or at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com. Let’s keep making workplaces feel more human, one honest conversation at a time.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

Ever feel guilty for stepping away from work before 5 p.m.—even when you’ve met your goals? You’re not alone.

In this insightful episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee take a hard look at how we've been conditioned to treat time as the ultimate currency—and why that’s no longer serving us. From personal stories to historical deep-dives, they break down the emotional and cultural baggage tied to “leaving early,” and how organizations can create healthier, more human-first time policies.

They explore:

• Why the traditional 9–5 workday feels outdated in a knowledge economy
• The roots of time = money thinking, and how it drives guilt
• The psychological effects of overwork, burnout, and performance optics
• The cultural gap between policy and practice (unlimited PTO, 4-day workweeks, etc.)
• How trust and autonomy lead to more purpose-driven employees
• What managers and leaders can do to create a truly flexible work environment

From bartering wheat to tracking hours with timecards, to tracking outcomes over presence, this episode makes the case for trust as the new workplace currency.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Pandemic flexibility and #DisrespectTheNineToFive
• 05:00 – First time playing hooky: Wolverine 2 and peanut M&Ms
• 10:00 – Selling time vs. selling outcomes: Where do we stand now?
• 15:00 – Workplace guilt and why flexibility still feels “wrong”
• 20:00 – Historical breakdown: Why we started measuring work in hours
• 25:00 – The rise of salaries, the power dynamic of compensation
• 30:00 – Unlimited PTO, performance pressure, and cultural mismatch
• 35:00 – Agency burnout and expectations around overwork
• 40:00 – 4-day workweeks: Myths, research, and Nixon’s prediction
• 47:00 – Chronotypes, circadian rhythms, and Daniel Pink’s science of timing
• 52:00 – Why failure is part of outcomes—and why leadership needs to allow for it
• 58:00 – Managers vs. leaders: Trust, autonomy, and rethinking control
• 01:05:00 – Friday joy vs. Sunday scaries: What that tells us about our jobs
• 01:10:00 – Practical takeaways: What to stop, keep, and explore
• 01:15:00 – Hashtag your time off: #WhyDoesItFeelSoWrong

Books & Resources:

When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing by Daniel Pink

The Confidence Code by Katty Kay & Claire Shipman

Four-Day Workweek Global Pilot Study (2023 Results)

Mic-Drop Moments:

“If you don’t have the flexibility to work when you’re at your best—are we really getting your best?”

“Unlimited PTO means nothing if the culture tells you not to use it.”

“Trust is the new currency of an evolved leader.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Big shoutout to Local Wisdom for championing people-first work culture, to our brilliant producer Brielle Seracini, and to the production magic of SBX Productions for helping this episode come to life.

Take the Afternoon Off—Then Tell Us About It:

Check your calendar. Find a 2–3 hour block in the next two weeks. Schedule a meeting with yourself and label it “Why Does It Feel So Wrong?” Then actually do something that feels right—take a walk, watch a movie, take a nap. Snap a pic and tag us with #WhyDoesItFeelSoWrong. Your future self will thank you.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

Saying “no” at work feels risky—sometimes even dangerous. But why?

In this powerful and vulnerable episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, co-hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee dig deep into why the simple act of saying “no” can feel like an act of rebellion. Through personal stories, workplace psychology, and reflections on culture and leadership, they unpack how power dynamics, fear, and outdated paradigms have made dissent feel taboo in today’s corporate environment.

Together, they explore:

• Why “no” often triggers fear of judgment, failure, or loss of trust
• The roots of obedience—from ancient empires to public school conditioning
• The modern workplace’s struggle with psychological safety
• How trust, leadership style, and team dynamics shape how safe people feel to speak up
• What healthy conflict, feedback, and creativity actually look like in high-functioning teams
• Tactics for saying “no” with empathy, purpose, and confidence
• The difference between controlling behavior and collaborative leadership

This episode connects history, parenting, neuroscience, and communication strategy into one eye-opening conversation that’ll have you rethinking how your team talks—and how it listens.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Intro: The surprising weight of “no”
• 03:00 – Power dynamics and the leadership illusion
• 06:00 – Ancient history, cultural conditioning, and saying yes
• 10:00 – Horace Mann and obedience-based education
• 13:00 – Milgram experiment, Peter Gabriel, and fear-based compliance
• 18:00 – When control leads to dysfunction
• 22:00 – Coaching vs. commanding: What modern leadership demands
• 26:00 – Performance vs. trust: What the Navy SEALs get right
• 30:00 – Fear, failure, and team erosion
• 34:00 – Saying no at home vs. at work: parenting lessons
• 38:00 – Psychological safety defined (and misdefined)
• 44:00 – Crucial conversations: Non-confrontational confrontation
• 48:00 – The future of culture and feedback at work

Books & Resources:

• The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson
• Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson et al.
• Humanocracy by Gary Hamel
• Reality-Based Leadership by Cy Wakeman
• Simon Sinek’s Navy SEAL Trust Model Watch on YouTube
• Mental Health Commission of Canada – National Standard for Psychological Safety

Mic-Drop Moments:

“We’re conditioned to say yes, but innovation depends on the courage to say no.”

“Psychological safety isn’t about comfort. It’s about performance without fear.”

“If your team can’t disagree with you, you don’t have a team. You have followers.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

To our community of listeners—thank you for creating space for hard truths and human-first leadership. Special shoutout to Brielle Seracini and our production team at SBX Productions for helping us amplify these conversations.

Join the Conversation:

When was the last time you said “no” at work—and meant it? Did it feel empowering or terrifying? Share your stories, insights, and questions in the comments or at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode Description:

Recorded live at the IABC World Conference 2023 in Toronto, this debut episode kicks off the Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work? podcast with a bold question: Are we slowly unlearning our own humanity at work?

Co-hosts Pinaki Kathiari (CEO, Local Wisdom) and Chris Lee (VP at Gallagher, President of IABC Toronto) take the stage to explore why workplace norms—from performance reviews to thank-you notes—often feel mechanical, outdated, or just plain wrong.

In front of a live audience, they break down:

• The habits we’ve inherited but never questioned
• Why “How are you?” is no longer a real question
• The workplace tension between productivity and authentic appreciation
• How performance reviews, workplace mandates, and default professionalism often strip away our humanness
• The origins of the podcast and how serendipity led to a live launch on a global stage

This unscripted, high-energy conversation mixes storytelling, audience interaction, and honest reflections on what it really means to be human in today’s corporate culture.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Welcome to the stage: Live from IABC World Conference
• 02:00 – What inspired the podcast (spoiler: it started at a bar)
• 06:00 – Rituals we never question: Email signatures, fax numbers, and apologies for appreciation
• 10:00 – The weirdness of annual performance reviews
• 14:00 – What it means to "unlearn" being robotic at work
• 17:00 – Why does it feel wrong to ask “How are you?” and mean it?
• 20:00 – Audience reactions: Code-switching, return-to-office, single parenting, tone-deaf messaging
• 25:00 – The human cost of transactional internal communications
• 28:00 – Why does it feel wrong to thank someone at work?
• 32:00 – Return to office: Rationales, resentment, and what’s missing in the messaging
• 38:00 – Emotional intelligence and new leadership styles
• 42:00 – Let’s stop calling it a “competitive benefits package”
• 47:00 – Psychological safety: Not a buzzword, a necessity
• 52:00 – Final thoughts and call to action: Be advocates for humanity

Books & Resources:

• The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson
• Reality-Based Leadership by Cy Wakeman
• The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho
• Humanocracy by Gary Hamel
• Good to Great by Jim Collins
• The Confidence Code by Katty Kay & Claire Shipman

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Why does it feel wrong to spend five minutes thanking someone, but not five hours chasing a spreadsheet?”

“If you have to explain authenticity, it stops being authentic.”

“Being human isn’t a distraction from work—it is the work.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

A heartfelt thank-you to the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), María Jesús Villagrán Cabanne, Letty Wong, and the entire IABC World Conference crew for helping us make podcast history on stage. And to our live audience—you brought the energy, vulnerability, and validation this show is all about.

Get Curious With Us:

What’s one thing you do at work that you’ve never questioned—until now? That’s where the unlearning starts. Hit play, subscribe, and follow along as we unravel the little (and not-so-little) things that make work feel… not-so-human.

Visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com to learn more.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.