Natural Great Peace

by Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje

Rest in natural great peace
 This exhausted mind
 Beaten helpless by karma and neurotic thought
 Like the relentless fury of pounding waves
 In the infinite ocean of saṃsāra.

Contact us: thetenthousandthings@outlook.com

Photo by Solstice Hannan 

People say they believe in God. God is a metaphor for a mystery that absolutely transcends all human categories of thought.
Even the categories of being and nonbeing.
Those are categories of thought. I mean it's as simple as that. It depends on how much you want to think about it. Whether it's putting you in touch with the mystery that is the ground of your own being. If it isn't, well, it's a lie.

The Way is empty, yet inexhaustible,

Like an abyss!

It seems to be the origin of all things.

It dulls the sharpness,

Unties the knots,

Dims the light,

Becomes one with the dust.

Deeply hidden, as if it only might exist.

I do not know whose child it is.

It seems to precede the ancestor of all.

"But two truths would help:

1. There aren't that many people we genuinely like.

2. There aren't that many people who deeply like us back. The sooner we accept this, the gentler the experience becomes."

Links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_honesty

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a26792/honesty0707/

Image: Giorgio Trovato

Behind the sometimes seemingly random or even chaotic succession of events in our lives as well as in the world lies concealed the unfolding of a higher order and purpose.

This is beautifully expressed in the Zen saying "The snow falls, each flake in its appropriate place." We can never understand this higher order through thinking about it because whatever we think about is content; whereas, the higher order emanates from the formless realm of consciousness, from universal intelligence. But we can glimpse it, and more than that, align ourselves with it, which means be conscious participants in the unfolding of that higher purpose.

Eckhart Tolle - A New Earth 

This episode includes a personal reference to AA. I fully respect the tradition of anonymity and am speaking only from my own experience, not on behalf of AA. - Joe

Image: Kirill Pershin

"How do you talk about mental health or neurodiversity with people who don’t get it?"

Image: Noah Buscher

Image: Johannes Plenio

Everybody on earth knowing
that beauty is beautiful
makes ugliness.

Everybody knowing
that goodness is good
makes wickedness.
 
For being and nonbeing
arise together;
hard and easy
complete each other;
long and short
shape each other;
note and voice
make the music together;
before and after
follow each other.
 
That’s why the wise soul
does without doing,
teaches without talking.
The things of this world
exist, they are;
you can’t refuse them.
 
To bear and not to own;
to act and not lay claim;
to do the work and let it go:
for just letting it go
is what makes it stay.

TAO called TAO is not TAO.

Names can name no lasting name.

Nameless: the origin of heaven and earth.

Naming: the mother of ten thousand things.

Empty of desire, perceive mystery.

Filled with desire, perceive manifestations.

These have the same source, but different names.

Call them both deep-

Deep and deep again deep:

The gateway to all mystery.

76 translations of Chapter 1 - https://www.taoistic.com/taoteching/taoteching-chapter1-versions.htm
Thank you to Kate for asking about a refeeence, which reminded me to add this! You are an inspiration as a listener and correspondent.

Characters: https://www.taoistic.com/images/taoteching-verse1.png

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.

And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

by Max Ehrmann ©1927

This realization that the separate self is an illusion must be one of the most useful things I've ever learned. I spent most of my life assuming that I was a separate self-contained unit and I felt disconnected from those around me. From the universe as a whole.

But where exactly is this seat of the self? Where's the little Joe who's up there in my head, directing everything? Where is the seat of attention? If I look for myself, where do I find myself? I find a constant flow of sense data, sights, sounds, smells, temperature. I find thoughts. But who are these thoughts occurring to?

As Jack Kornfield says, identification and clinging harden the water into ice. The closest thing I can find to a separate self is this contraction in my chest that seems to create some kind of locus in time and space.

But actually I am in no way separate from the flow. This has been seen through for me in meditation. What I find in meditation, if I have a good session, is I drop into a much larger, possibly infinite, ocean of awake awareness. Which mostly has a fairly neutral quality, but there's actually a lovingness there. A gentle sense of support. And I find this encouraging to say the least.

Of course, I have a social self and I need to function. And go to work and perform my roles in society. But there's no need to constantly reify the separate self, this particle, somehow split off from the rest of the universe.

What I actually find is an openness, a sort of infinite openness, where I used to imagine my separate self to be. Jack Kornfield talks about ice and water. I've heard it talked about in terms of a wave. A wave that somehow thinks it's separate from the ocean. Or a sunbeam that's forgotten it's part of the sun. I'm a part of something much bigger than I always took myself to be. But it's also something incredibly simple. It's just the present moment. I'm not separate to you who's reading this. I really am just part of this flow.

I only care about this because I guess I've always just wanted to know the truth. I guess I've always suffered feeling so separate from things around me. It's a great relief when I realize and drop into the fact that I'm this open, loving awareness. And I can then accept everything just exactly the way it is in the present moment. After all, what other choice, do I really have?

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host

Image: courtesy of Craig over at https://wish-art.blog
---------------------
More about the author of today's quote:

Jack Kornfield (born 1945) is an American writer and teacher in the Vipassana movement in American Theravada Buddhism.[1] He trained as a Buddhist monk in Thailand, Burma and India,[2] first as a student of the Thai forest master Ajahn Chah and Mahasi Sayadaw of Burma. He has taught mindfulness meditation worldwide since 1974. In 1975, he co-founded the Insight Meditation Society in Barre, Massachusetts, with Sharon Salzberg and Joseph Goldstein, and subsequently[clarification needed] in 1987, Spirit Rock Meditation Center in Woodacre, California. Kornfield has worked as a peacemaker and activist, organized teacher training, and led international gatherings of Buddhist teachers including the Dalai Lama. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kornfield

Website | jackkornfield.com

More about The Wise Heart

This is the fifth in a series of reflections by Joe on quotes he found helpful or striking. He has some good writing over at https://joeloh.substack.com/

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host

Source:

About the author:

Tolle came to prominence as a self-help author in the U.S. and internationally beginning in 2000, after Oprah Winfrey promoted his books in 2000 and 2005 and created webinars for him in 2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle

A longer summary of the book here: https://medium.com/@saadwrkacnt/a-deep-dive-into-the-power-of-now-by-eckhart-tolle-ac6446b0aa7c

------------------
 

That's from Eckhart Tolle from The Power of Now. I've always had the sense when it comes to sex, that it's more than just a couple of animals, rutting. There always seem to be a lot more going on in that realm for me and I do think it is a sense of oneness. The self dropping away. A merging with another person. A deep connection that I really haven't found in any other way. 

But also maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm putting too much on sex, and it is just a physical act with no meaning. But when I found this piece of writing, it really spoke to me about my experience of sex. But as he says, it's no more than a fleeting glimpse of wholeness. An instant of bliss. There's a much greater oneness, that's quite hard to talk about, that can be referred to as non-duality. A sense of nothing being separate. A sense of only the world, the entire world, existing in this present moment. Which is really what the book, The Power of Now is all about. And it is a book I've re-read about four times now. He does a good job of talking about something that's very hard to put into words. But I really believe from my own experience that it's duality that is the illusion and it's oneness that is the truth. So all the separateness and loneliness and apartness that I feel, it's actually an illusion. That brief glimpse of heaven that can happen during sex, it's actually a glimpse of reality. It's actually breaking out of the illusion. But I know for myself, it can become obsessive to pursue those moments. And then I head into something which is more like addiction. And at that point, I'm even further away from the oneness that I'm seeking than I ever was before. I think there's an incredible power around sex and love and I think that I'm someone who's been sold a crock in terms of romanticism and the idea that the right person will complete me, make me feel whole and resolve everything. 

So it's this tricky balance for me of. Seeing the spirituality in sex. But realizing that for me, It's my spiritual life that's going to give me that sense of wholeness and oneness and connection with the universe. And if I keep trying to find it in fleeting moments of peace I'm only gonna end up unsatisfied. I know what it is to go towards oneness but it's not something that’s easy for me to explain. But I know what it feels like. And for me, it's really about seeing through the illusions and seeing through 150 years of romanticism and seeing through Hollywood and advertising and everything that's led me to believe that the only way to find happiness and contentment is to find the one. But the reality is I'm the one I've always been looking for and home has always been right here. 

And when I've looked for it in other places, other than deep down within, it's caused me so much pain. Really the majority of pain I've had in my life has been in this area. But the high’s have been high too. I guess for me, developing a spiritual life is about reassessing everything. Starting from scratch. And a reading like this really makes me question a lot of things that I took for granted. But also explain some things to me. Like, why have always seen sex is so profound and meaningful. When I know to a lot of people, it's just a bit of fun. And it's really no big deal. For me, I have unconsciously seen it as a means of salvation and I really hope that I can start looking somewhere else. Probably deep down within, for that feeling of okayn...

Transcript:
That's Joseph Campbell from an interview he did. I won’t pretend to be an expert on what the anima is but I took note of this because it resonated with me. I can see that I've done this throughout my adult life. It's to project something, onto a woman in my case. And then basically have a relationship with that projection.

And there's an incredible high that comes from doing that. And they become perfected in your mind. And quite often I can take photos of women when I'm in this state, they will be sitting in a café or wherever, and it will be a particularly attractive photo of them. And quite often they get some kind of high out of it too.

But as Joseph Campbell says:

“Pretty soon you say through the projection. And then what happens?”

Well, in my case, what happens is I tend to end the relationship. And often the women are left hurt and confused about what went wrong.

And it reminds me of the Joni Mitchell quote about monogamy and how if all you ever have is short-term relationships and casual dating then basically, you’re just dating yourself over and over again. Telling the same stories, revealing the same small parts of yourself, and having the same fun.

Whereas to really go deep with someone and commit and really get into the complexities of getting to know someone is to have a much deeper experience. But I think that moves you past romantic love and chemistry and all the hedonism that's inherent in all those chemicals floating around. I think that moves you to something that maybe feels a lot more ordinary a lot of the time. That slow layering process of really getting to know one person.

And sitting here now I can see that that is an ideal for me. The problem I have is whenever I meet a new person, I tend to project my anima onto them and have the same relationship over and over again. I’m trying to get out of that trap and move onto hopefully something more profound.

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host

Joseph Campbell is also one of my go-to teachers. Not necessarily an authority on up to date folklore, but certainly someone who can open you up to new ideas and give you courage to face fears and challenges. Campbell has helped many people greatly with perhaps one the hardest things in life, to actually face our true purposes and choose to move towards lives of greater meaning and yes, love.

Reading about anima/animus, I found an interesting summary of Jung's four levels of Eros (erotic romantic love) associated with development/integration of the anima. Maturation of romantic love felt towards women, moves from:
1. Eve: desire, needs, nourishment, security and love
2. Helen: recognition of women's intelligence, competences and achievements in their own right
3. Mary: Righteous, paragon of virtue: recognition of women's moral accomplishments I would say
4: Sophia: finally recognising women as wise and fully human, *gasp*, equal, and not at all an object.

-----------
I also found Maria Popova's wonderful article in the Marginalian, a great match with Joe's reflection today. Reviewing Pathways to Bliss, Campbell's book on love, purpose and reality, she also quotes Anais Nin, Zen teacher D.T Suzuki, Stendahl, Dan Savage and the poet Rilke. Popova offers a striking synthesis drawing on many sources, persuading us powerfully that embracing imperfection and compassion is the path to love and meaning. Joseph Campbell on Why Perfectionism Kills Love and the Pathway to Bliss in Romantic Relationships

Kindred Media has some powerful articles by Amy Wright Glenn, who works as a yoga teacher, doula and chaplain. Clearly she is someone who specialises in helping people at life's most difficult moments. She tells stories of love, grief, bliss and purpose. 

I welcome the superb clarity she brings to Campbell's ideas and her own insight. 

Amy Wright Glenn in the same article, gives us a poignant outline of Campbell's notion of three kinds of love: Agape (universal sacred love), Eros (sexual), and Amor (romantic) with key observations about each. Highly recommended! https://kindredmedia.org/2015/03/joseph-campbell-love-and-follow-your-bliss/ 

Since the publication of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Campbell's theories have been applied by a wide variety of modern writers and artists. His philosophy has been summarized by his own often repeated phrase: "Follow your bliss."[6] He gained recognition in Hollywood when George Lucas credited Campbell's work as influencing his Star Wars saga.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell

For more great quotesfrom Campbell https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host

Joe is writing over at https://joeloh.substack.com/ and it's genuinely sizzling stuff. You can tell he read Hunter S Thompson and Kerouac as a youngster, and since then I'm assuming he's read other stuff that sounds more mature, because his writing is kind of both of those things. It's present and truthful, and entirely unsentimental, but it has feelings in it. That link again: https://joeloh.substack.com/

- Sam

Image courtesy of Craig https://wish-art.blog/gallery/

____________________________________

More on the quote's source, A More Loving World: How to increase compassion, kindness and joy at https://www.theschooloflife.com/shop/a-more-loving-world/ An extract of the book is available at https://assets.theschooloflife.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/04143544/A-More-Loving-World_extract.pdf

About the author of today's quote:

He co-founded The School of Life in 2008 and Living Architecture in 2009.[1][2] In 2015, he was awarded "The Fellowship of Schopenhauer", an annual writers' award from the Melbourne Writers Festival, for that work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_de_Botton

More great quotes from Alain de Botton at https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alain_de_Botton

Transcript:

That's Alain de Botton. And that really struck me because I think I'd always given myself an out. That it didn't really matter what I did. That I was a small and insignificant person.

And as it says 'however mesmerized we are by the deplorable behaviour of powerful individuals...' 

It always seemed enough to just look at someone like a Donald Trump, and just be like, "well, I'm nowhere near that bad, and I'm also nowhere near that powerful, so the things that I do don't really matter."

But as it says 'we are constantly capable of causing other people significant hurt.' 

I look back and see a lot of burnt bridges. And actually burning bridges is the only way I know to deal with a lot of this stuff. 

And I like to think that I have gotten better in sobriety and recovery. 

But I've always had an edge that's capable of hurting people.

And I guess the point of this note and why I wrote it down at the time, and why it struck me so much, was this is the justification that I'd used for my poor behaviour in hurting people, that I was just a little insignificant ant. 

And reflecting on it now, it's partially that insignificance that led to some of the rage, that led to some of the bitterness, that led to some of the poor behaviour. 

So, I guess the thing that I'm trying to find now, is some genuine humility. And just getting myself out of the way and seeing other people, and other people have their struggles. 

And to quote Bob Dylan's grandma, that "everyone walks a hard road."  

And I know I'm not going to get this right. It's not going to be perfect. 

But this quote reminds me that I matter to maybe a handful of people, but to those people I really matter. And I have to be really careful to try to be kind wherever I possibly can. 

And it doesn't matter what's happened to me. It doesn't matter whether I've been given a diagnosis or I feel like I've had a hard time in life. 

It actually only matters how I act in the world.

That's what I'll be judged on. And that's what I should be judged on. 

I need to get my thoughts right. And my emotions, right. And then hopefully my actions will improve.

This short episode is from Joe, intended as the first of many, reflecting on passages he took note of in reading. Next week's main ep will explain more of the back story behind this new project.
 
Joe is writing over at https://joeloh.substack.com, and (Sam here) I say it's very good stuff. Very honest. Totally Joe. A rollicking read.
Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host

____________ ______________

About the author of today's quote:

More Pema Chodron quotes at https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pema_Ch%C3%B6dr%C3%B6n

By the same author: How to Meditate: A Practical Guide to Making Friends with Your Mind (2008)

We dive into the misconceptions of romantic love prevalent in Western culture, drawing on a quote from You Are the One You've Been Waiting For: Applying Internal Family Systems to Intimate Relationships, by Richard Swartz. Get the book from Internal Family Systems Institute at https://ifs-institute.com/you-are-one-youve-been-waiting

Sam mentions Let's Get Vulnerable: Relationship and Dating Advice podcast with Dr Morgan, yet again, but actually links to it this time. https://episodes.fm/1496034764 to find it on your podcast player of choice. But I use and recommend Podcast Guru, and Fountain, available on all phones ... anyway it's a great resource on attachment theory, and if you end up taking a workshop let Sam know how it goes.

Here's the quote:

We touch on:

• the usual gossip and personal experiences, in between the wise and reflective stuff.
• historic context of romantic love as an ideal
• likely role of biology in facilitating feelings of romantic love
• vs the grim reality of marriage historically, as the transfer of property between men
• romance in media
• the unrealistic expectations it sets
• reflect on the nature of love
• love's challenges
• the importance of self-love 
• and realistic expectations in intimate relationships
• dynamics of attachment styles
• mental health, and the balance between self-reliance and being a good partner
• a broader contemplation of love's realities versus its cultural constructions

Episode image: courtesy of Craig - read stories and look at more great shots at https://wish-art.blog/gallery/

The show cover is from the filming of The KLF's Ancients of Mu clip - https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/apr/27/return-of-the-klf-bill-drummond-jimmy-cauty

Show theme is from Ehsan Gelsi - he just dropped a new song video today - it's nice synth instrumental music. Watch the maestro at work over at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN9XE0UKZDE

0:00 TTTT Is Love the Drug?
00:18 Myth of Romantic Love
02:10 Personal Stories: Rethinking Romance
04:53 Debating the Reality of Romantic Love
08:18 The Cultural and Biological Perspectives on Love
32:42 Navigating New Beginnings and Misunderstandings
32:54 The Journey of Moving In and Relationship Dynamics
33:22 Relationship Flags: Red, Yellow, and Green
36:10 Mental Health and Self-Awareness in Relationships
52:54 Reflections on Love, Choice, and Commitment

• (00:00) - Is Love the Drug?
• (00:18) - Myth of Romantic Love
• (02:10) - Personal Stories: Rethinking Romance
• (04:53) - Debating the Reality of Romantic Love
• (08:18) - The Cultural and Biological Perspectives on Love
• (32:42) - Navigating New Beginnings and Misunderstandings
• (32:54) - The Journey of Moving In and Relationship Dynamics
• (33:22) - Relationship Flags: Red, Yellow, and Green
• (36:10) - Mental Health and Self-Awareness in Relationships
• (52:54) - Reflections on Love, Choice, and Commitment

Reading a wide range of listener notes, I respond and explore 

• personal themes:
• vulnerability
• thoughts on how to engage usefully with attachment theory, to go looking for the things we don't want to say
• the two breakdown eps from Joe and Ali
• voyeurism: when is it okay to listen to people spilling about intense experiences
• I say it's because people pod with honesty, because they want to be seen and accepted, flaws and all, so you're helping. If it's feeding something exploitative, you'll feel it.

Themes around speaking, activism, expression:

• the half-informed should speak, while being honest about their level of understanding, otherwise we will only hear from the powerful and the uninformed, who are never honest about their level of understanding
• middle-class white women do speak up a lot, but should continue to do so
• a brief history of middle-class women as key activists
• I encourage a writer who listens, to start a show, and offer support and advice to anyone curious about getting started

Networked communal media not subject to the algorithm

• the communal, horizontal, networked experience of podcasts (listeners become producers, or step up to speak, in a mutually supporting way) 
• audio over RSS: the last medium not to have been completely overrun by ads and algorithms
• open nature of podcast distribution via RSS feeds, Really Simple Syndication, contrasting it with highly vertical, platform-dependent media (LOCKED SYSTEMS = serfdom)
• commercial radio thrived on podcast-ish values before becoming a bloated ad beast
• a call for community support and contribution, reinforcing the collaborative spirit of podcasting 
• listeners as producers, who contribute to the content and continuity of podcasts
• Value for Value, decentralisation: the philosophy we need for sustainable media in the age of closed platforms
• the importance of fearless feedback in all directions
• the democratizing power of podcasts under techno-feudalism

Creators & Guests

• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - The Life-Changing Power of Podcasts
• (01:11) - Podcast Listening Habits
• (02:07) - Podcast Listeners as Producers
• (03:38) - Exploring Attachment Theory Through Listener Feedback
• (06:21) - The Open Nature of Podcasting vs. Centralized Media
• (24:18) - Embracing Vulnerability and Listener Connections
• (25:06) - The Power of Envy and Personal Growth
• (25:36) - Podcasting as a Form of Expression
• (30:02) - The Impact of Listening and Speaking
• (32:27) - Exploring Faith and Listener Feedback

00:00 The Life-Changing Power of Podcasts
01:11 Podcast Listening Habits
02:07 Podcast Listeners as Producers
03:38 Exploring Attachment Theory Through Listener Feedback
06:21 The Open Nature of Podcasting vs. Centralized Media
24:18 Embracing Vulnerability and Listener Connections
25:06 The Power of Envy and Personal Growth
25:36 Podcasting as a Form of Expression
30:02 The Impact of Listening and Speaking
32:27 Exploring Faith and Listener Feedback

It's always therapy and psychoanalysis around here, movies are the vehicle. Favourite films reflect deep psychological themes and evolving personal identities. What we once found aspirational in a character, we might later rethink, or realise it was not the healthiest hero to have. Others may have been right for the time.

So we mainly talk about movies our younger selves were drawn to, Pulp Fiction, Terminator 2, The Matrix, Le Samurai, The Thin Red Line, Beaches, When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle, Funny Girl, 'Now, Voyager', All About Eve, and Stella Dallas.

It's the usual mix of personal stories, and psychological insights, plus film analysis and some half-remembered film theory, looking at identification with film characters, self-perception, the making and collapsing of reality, and the separate self. We also touch on the gender dynamics in film identification, the concept of sacrificial love, and the role of cinema in shaping or reflecting social norms and personal dreams. It all brings us eventually to the universal quest for connection and meaning.

We delve into how these preferences illuminate our aspirations, fears, and personal development.

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - TTTT Film
• (01:23) - Deep Dive into Favorite Films and Personal Identification
• (03:28) - Self-image and cinema
• (07:33) - The Psychological Impact of Film and the Matrix Deep Dive
• (10:36) - Meditation, Reality, and Joe''s dis-Engagement with Cinema
• (14:41) - Heroism, Mortality, and the Essence of Cinema
• (21:02) - Heroism in Real Life vs. Cinema
• (22:59) - Reflecting on how Mortality impacts Film Appreciation
• (26:01) - Character Archetypes in Cinema
• (26:30) - The Impact of Nature and Civilization in Film
• (28:57) - The Power of Old Movies: Nostalgia and Reflection
• (30:20) - The Power of Melodrama: Reflecting on Personal Sacrifices
• (44:03) - Romantic Comedies and Their Influence on Personal Identity
• (51:06) - The Secret Hopes and Dreams in Cinema
• (52:55) - Concluding Thoughts on Cinema's Psychological Impact

We found ourselves in agreement with Frye's observations. But we debate and detail the angles: 

• Is heterosexual male culture (always) homoerotic?
• Do men save their 'best' for each other?
• Do many men find truer friendship with other men because they feel more comfortable around each other? Why?
• Is this a problem? How much so?
• Why would a man be 'less himself' around women? 
• Is this because a man might be capable of friendship with women, but change his behaviour around a woman he wants to sleep with?
• Maybe it's heterosexual people thinking of each other as alien species that causes the problem? 
• But does heterosexuality rely on just this, treating each other as alien and maintaining a sense of difference?
• Is there some anger, bitterness or frustration in the quote?
• Is the author a separatist feminist as Joe guessed? (Yes).
• What is romance anyway?
• Has the truth in this quote shifted over time?
• Is it also true about women and other women? And is it possible to judge those two realities by the same standard?
• Why are people on dating apps talking about polarity and being in their feminine energy? Do they just mean 'someone else sort everything out?'
• Are we at the point where we can begin to expect equal levels of maturity and responsibility from both men and women?

And if r/feminism is consulted, you will find much agreement there. As NoMommy- posted:

I want to be with someone who likes me. Likes talking to me, likes my sense of humor, likes hanging out with me. Someone who, even if we weren’t together/he wasn’t attracted to me, he would still want to hang out with me because he likes me as a person.

I want someone who shows affection and does nice things, not because he expects something in return, but because he wants to make me happy.

Is that too much to ask??? I say this to my friends who date and they’re all like, “fat fuckin chance,” “good luck with that.”

It’s just sad and frustrating

The Ten Thousand Things, well, Sam would like to say to you in reply "u/NoMommy- I get you, cos that's what I want also. No, it's not too much to ask. It's not easy to create this reality for ourselves, but many men do feel the same way. Maybe all humans feel the same way. We all want to be loved unconditionally, but we fear that any love we get is conditional, and pre-empt or retaliate. It's not impossible to create this better love with others, but we would have to start with the assumption that everyone has been hurt, and we ourselves are not necessarily easy to live with. And we all wonder if we can ever really be known by others, and still be loved. If we were known fully by someone, we may fear that we would not be loved.

Meanwhile, over at Good Men Project, Franklin Madison quotes Frye and issues a heartfelt appeal to men to have a high quality of friendship with men, but hold the same respect, acceptance and quality of friendship with women:

There, I said it. Live with it because you know as well as I do that’s the truth.

He also urges men to be comfortable with the touch of other men and not deny it to themselves on homophobic grounds. https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/non-toxic-masculinity-male-male-affection-friendship-lbkr/

-----------------------------
More about Frye:

After a bit more reading, I learned that Frye is a reference point for separatist feminists. As I understand it, separatist feminists are women who assert, with cause, that they should not put their energy, presence, love or even thoughts towards men. Men are not where they should invest energy of any kind, that they want to prioritise other women, particularly those who have been hurt, and particularly those hurt by men.

There is a long history of women doing it for themselves throughout recorded human existence, and earlier still. Among our primate relatives, Bonobo chimpanzees have a society that operates through female bonds, and men must cooperate in order to have any stake in it. While among other chimpanzees each troop has a dominant male who keeps harems. The only way to access reproduction is to sneak around or kill or drive off the other male. I think the better choice here is obvious.

Women often saw benefit or survival in in banding together: for safety, mutual aid, religion, and many other causes. Women have had to fend for themselves after abandonment, during peace and war, or after losing male family members to war, famine, disease, migration, economic collapse, husbands press ganged into the navy, or killed accidentally in work. As there are 'men going their own way' now, and perhaps there has always been. It seems in difficult times women support each other, and perhaps, so do men. But we also ...

FOMO arises from projection and fantasy, as does a lot of the imagined enjoyment of the imagined pleasures.

We might imagine that:

• everything we want is outside ourselves
• pleasure, meaning or peak experiences must be mediated by something: people, substances, or outside events
• that we have to follow a formula to achieve them

We chew over the classic cliche FOMO of music festivals, and unearth some insights: 

• the positives of turning towards your own priorities
• pursuing projects and personal growth brings the greater contentment
• 'projects over pleasures'
• the pursuit of meaningful experiences on your own terms or with people you care about
• sometimes the best music experience is going mental to a good tune where no-one can see

Joe contends that beyond FOMO and JOMO is the flow state:

• the real peak experiences of life often occur in the flow state
• which has little to do with glamorous activities or what we have been told to want

We touch on existentialism and some key FOMO psychology:

• humans struggle to reliably imagine their own future feelings
• to weigh the influence and impact of imagined events
• we struggle to accurately assess what others put on social media, obviously
• but this is also discomfort with our own choices
• we all carry the burden of choice, of what to value and pursue
• the existential problem of assigning meaning
• it's not easy figuring out what we really want
• it's difficult to imagine what will actually make us happy or bring contentment, and in a sense it's our life's work
• the choice to engage in fulfilling projects is seemingly more difficult and uncertain than reaching for known pleasures
• the boring thing is doing what we think we will be fun and assigning it a greater future value than it can carry
• the real boredom is not always in staying home and attending to our real priorities

We harangue Joe to turn towards something he gets a lot of meaning from, passages from spiritual books, and reflect on those in a new podcast series, which leads nicely to some useful concluding thoughts

• the value of following quiet passions
• the liberation found in chosen solitude
• encouragement to make conscious life choices aligning with true desires

Episode image courtesy of Craig. Check out his new blog, it's grouse https://wish-art.blog/

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - TTTT fomo jomo
• (00:14) - Welcome and topic
• (00:33) - Personal Stories of FOMO and JOMO
• (03:20) - The Cultural Phenomenon of Music Festivals
• (05:58) - Sobriety and Its Impact on Social Life
• (07:49) - The Shift from FOMO to JOMO in Adulthood
• (07:59) - Reality, Music Festivals, It's a Business
• (08:30) - Interviews with musicians
• (19:28) - Finding Joy in Simplicity and Creativity
• (24:42) - The Real FOMO: Missing Out on Personal Passions
• (29:48) - Embracing JOMO in Everyday Life
• (31:51) - Rediscovering Simple Pleasures
• (32:13) - The Pivot: From Boredom to Texture of Experience
• (32:30) - Mediated Experiences vs. Reality
• (33:14) - Body Acceptance and the Illusion of Projected Happiness
• (34:02) - Music Festivals and the Pursuit of Authentic Joy
• (34:52) - The Path of Personal Growth
• (36:19) - Embracing Individuality and Comfort
• (48:41) - Finding Meaning in Quiet Contemplation
• (51:01) - Projects over pleasures - the origin of Joe's new podcast
• (53:43) - Joe's new diet - and more origin for the new project
• (58:53) - Balancing JOMO and FOMO
• (01:01:17) - Concluding Thoughts on Personal Fulfillment

0:00 TTTT fomo jomo
00:14 Welcome and topic
00:33 Personal Stories of FOMO and JOMO
03:20 The Cultural Phenomenon of Music Festivals
05:58 Sobriety and Its Impact on Social Life
07:49 The Shift from FOMO to JOMO in Adulthood
07:59 Reality, Music Festivals, It's a Business
08:30 Interviews with musicians
19:28 Finding Joy in Simplicity and Creativity
24:42 The Real FOMO: Missing Out on Personal Passions
29:48 Embracing JOMO in Everyday Life
31:51 Rediscovering Simple Pleasures
32:13 The Pivot: From Boredom to Texture of Experience
32:30 Mediated Experiences vs. Reality
33:14 Body Acceptance and the Illusion of Projected Happiness
34:02 Music Festivals and the Pursuit of Authentic Joy
34:52 The Path of Personal Growth
36:19 Embracing Individuality and Comfort
48:41 Finding Meaning in Quiet Contemplation
51:01 Projects over pleasures - the origin of Joe's new podcast
53:43 Joe's new diet - and more origin for the new project
58:53 Balancing JOMO and FOMO
01:01:17 Concluding Thoughts on Personal Fulfillment

It's The Dance of Attachment in Relationships!

In our return to podding for a new season, (sorry to disappear, reasons!!) we explore 

• the nuanced world of attachment styles 
• their profound influence on our relationships and self-awareness
• We delve into the complexities of understanding anxious, avoidant, secure, and disorganized attachment styles
• tracing their roots back to early childhood and examining their impact on our adult romantic relationships, friendships, and the way we view ourselves
• sharing personal stories and insights
• we discuss concepts and strategies for navigating and seeking secure attachments 
• in pursuit of fulfilling and healthy relationships we need:
  • setting and respecting healthy boundaries for ourselves and others
  • not to neglect our own needs
    • which includes attending to security within
    • being comfortable or tolerant of being alone with our own thoughts
    • personal purpose and meaning, and not to seek this from relationships alone
    • the distinction between being alone and feeling lonely
• and towards others:
  • open, non-judgemental communication
  • self-awareness
  • the delicate balance between independence and vulnerability
  • avoiding assumptions in communication and in interpreting the actions of others
  • the value of approaching life and relationships with openness and mindfulness

Yes it's all pointing towards the continuous process of personal growth and adaptation.

Mentions:
It was Tracy McMillan who wrote the blog Why You're Not Married https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-youre-not-married_b_822088
Warning: contains statements that will not be universally accepted, but some of her insights are worthwhile, based on three marriages, at the time. She talks a lot about attachment theory also https://www.instagram.com/tracymcmillan

Let's Get Vulnerable podcast: https://episodes.fm/1496034764
Dr Tracey Morgan has a particular style, which I enjoy, and will grow on you, because she really knows what her stuff and it comes from hard personal experience, struggle and finally breakthrough. Promotes a paid program for women, with occasional male participants.

Other excellent podcasts on attachment theory, by expert practitioners in the field:

On Attachment: Stephanie Rigg is a good local voice. She experienced anxious attachment all her life, and her partner avoidant, but they have worked it through. Stephanie has great insight and advice, and also offers courses and workshops

Trauma Free Relationship Tom Philip delivers very easy to follow theory and practice, bite size chunks, a nice-relaxed style informed by a long career in relationship counselling https://episodes.fm/1682090107

Trauma Rewired (season 3 is on relationships https://episodes.fm/1537602643

Episode cover art by Craig, https://wish-art.blog/
Music theme by Ehsan https://www.youtube.com/c/EhsanGelsi

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host
• Joe Loh - Host

• (00:00) - Attachment
• (00:12) - The 10,000 Things: Diving into Attachment Theory
• (00:29) - Attachment Styles: The New Myers-Briggs?
• (01:05) - Exploring Attachment Theory: Science and Personal Insights
• (03:14) - Anxious Attachment: Texting, turning into Teen Wolf, and Drowning Metaphors
• (07:13) - Disorganized Attachment: Navigating Dating and Self-Discovery
• (16:44) - Beyond Romance: Attachment in Friendships and Self-Care
• (40:04) - Navigating Attachment Styles in Relationships
• (42:01) - The Anxiety of Avoidant Attachment
• (42:48) - Exploring Past Relationships and Attachment Dynamics
• (44:56) - The Journey Towards Secure Attachment
• (01:00:25) - The Importance of Self-Awareness and Vulnerability
• (01:08:32) - Language of couples counselling
• (01:20:09) - Concluding Thoughts on Attachment and Personal Growth

0:00 Theme
00:12 Diving into Attachment Theory
00:29 Attachment Styles: The New Myers-Briggs?
01:05 Exploring Attachment Theory: Science and Personal Insights
03:14 Anxious Attachment: Texting, turning into Teen Wolf, and Drowning Metaphors
07:13 Disorganized Attachment: Navigating Dating and Self-Discovery
16:44 Beyond Romance: Attachment in Friendships, Family, Self-Care
40:04 Attachment Styles in Relationships
42:01 The Anxiety of Avoidant Attachment
42:48 Exploring Past Relationships and Attachment Dynamics
44:56 The Journey Towards Secure Attachment
01:00:25 The Importance of Self-Awareness and Vulnerability
01:08:32 Language of couples counselling
01:20:09 Concluding Thoughts on Attachment and Personal Growth

We unpack the role of envy, not as a toxic emotion to be avoided or ashamed of, but a normal feeling that gives us clues to understanding our unmet desires, unfulfilled potential, and prompting necessary change.

• envy vs jealousy. Jealousy is possessiveness, envy is wanting what others have, or wanting to be them
• becoming less envious of others as we get older
• the emptiness at the heart of existence remains in place no matter who we are or what we have
• house prices, salaries, wealth distribution
• complex, changing feelings, hiding then reveal the path to self-growth
• fitting in vs standing out
• being the object of envy
• being envious of contemporaries, such as friends, people we went to school or work with
• having envy towards our own partners
• bike shorts/yoga pants: acceptable clothing for everyone?
• getting beneath the surface of desire, wanting a greater sense of freedom
• gender and clothing: do women have greater freedom in terms of clothing?
• 'painful but necessary steps'
• Ali's dream of growing more of her own food
• self-envy, a 'better version of ourself' from the past
• Joe's epic case of personal envy towards a contemporary 
• therapy: like cleaning a mirror, with the image becoming clearer over time. 
• daily transformations that count towards personal growth
• the importance of casual conversations for therapeutic value

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
• (00:28) - Discussing Alain de Botton's Quote on Envy
• (01:41) - Understanding Envy and Jealousy
• (02:05) - Personal Experiences with Envy
• (02:48) - Envy and Lifestyle Aspirations
• (03:24) - Debate on Work and Lifestyle
• (05:30) - Envy in Youth and Adulthood
• (05:55) - Envy and Money
• (08:49) - Envy of partners in relationships
• (11:32) - Envy and Personal Style
• (29:16) - The Illusion of Success
• (29:24) - The Changing Landscape of Attainable Dreams
• (30:04) - The Struggle with Identity and Expectations
• (30:20) - The Reality of Career Success
• (31:20) - The Shift in Perception of Wealth and Success
• (32:32) - The Struggle with Personal Limitations
• (33:34) - The Reality of Life's Unpredictability
• (34:30) - The Desire for Freedom from Wage Slavery
• (35:12) - The Struggle with Self-Blame and Helplessness
• (37:36) - The Journey Towards Self-Reliance and Acceptance
• (42:31) - The Power of Reflection and Self-Understanding

We welcome the New Year by

• evaluating the usefulness of New Years resolutions
• sharing the honest struggles we’ve had
• small triumphs
• Ali shares her journey to quit smoking and the strategies she employs.
• a positive version of sunk cost fallacy, where we are motivated to defend small gains and build on them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
• making excuses and justifications for not taking responsibility
• tricking yourself into doing things your mind is resisting
• quitting/reducing drinking
• cleaner living, bad skin after xmas blowout
• the power of vanity in keeping motivated
• Ali and Sam pleased about looking younger than some of the other school mums
• how the concept of future thinking and goal setting has influenced our lives
• touching on the psychology concept of ‘delay discounting’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preferenceas a key to understanding addiction, financial errors and not getting around to acting on our ambitions
• debate the relevance of the neurodivergent label for individuals and the three of us
• the present and future of the show. Our personal and collective mission, methods, and reasons for doing it.

Meta pod discussion for the stans:

• As we reflect on our podcast journey, we contemplate whether to foreground our identity as neurodivergent individuals and how it plays into the show.
• We also share our ambitions for the podcast going forward, including our New Year resolution to de-emphasize diagnoses and just be ourselves.
• Sam digresses into the huge value gained from listening to niche and highly specific podcasts
• Joe advocates having ‘no angle’ and ‘no identity’ 
• the value of anything should be in the doing, in the process. Bhakti Yoga and many other traditions teach we should not do things for reward, nor should we be attached to any particular outcome.
• Podding is more like a zine and having absolute intellectual freedom
  Success is to have critics as well as praise
• we express our gratitude towards our listeners and each other, and acknowledge the affirming impact of their feedback on our personal lives and our collective journey.
• Sam offers some recent pod finds that taught the wisdom of ‘I am becoming’ statements, versus ‘I am’ statements

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - TTTT 37 - New Year New You
• (00:36) - New Year, New Me: Debunking the Myth
• (01:15) - The Reality of New Year's Resolutions
• (02:21) - Alis Struggle Quitting Smoking
• (06:04) - The Power of Incremental Changes
• (09:43) - The Impact of Habits on Appearance
• (11:59) - The Benefits of Sobriety
• (18:29) - Maintaining a Healthy Relationship with Alcohol
• (19:45) - The Impact of Alcohol on Mental Health
• (20:34) - Understanding Delay Discounting
• (20:57) - Delay Discounting in Marketing
• (21:32) - Delay Discounting and Addiction
• (23:28) - The Power of Visualization
• (24:35) - Overcoming Personal Struggles
• (26:35) - Redefining the Podcast's Identity
• (37:32) - The Value of Listener Feedback
• (40:57) - New Year's Resolutions and Personal Growth

Sam, Joe and Ali discuss gurus, including the online type:

• our times are thick with public intellectuals, influencers, and self-proclaimed experts 
• Sam's frequent references to Slavoj Žižek, and Joe's conclusion that he doesn't make much sense, and isn't much chop intellectually. 
• Sam on literal guru worship in the Hare Krishnas - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness
• should we just speak for ourselves, rather than filter our thoughts or present them in relation to influential figures?
• figures like Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray 
• the resort to online gurus during times of uncertainty, about how to know and think (the so-called epistemological crisis)
• A few of Joe's past figures get a mention: Stephen Pinker, Michael Shellenberger,
• how problematic it can be when these gurus leave their area of expertise
• many people will detect that guru lane drift, but many others still trust their Guru's every word, which is perhaps the whole point of gurus
• the power of dialogue with other humans in understanding our own internally competing perspectives, and helping us evaluate information and perception
• striving for clarity amidst an overload of information.

Useful sources:

• The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (peer reviewed) - Zizek entry https://iep.utm.edu/zizek/
• Zizek Wikipedia
• Zizek wikiquote
• Some key Zizek ideas from The Conversation

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Introduction and Hosts
• (00:28) - Topic inro: Online Gurus
• (00:41) - Slavoj Žižek
• (02:52) - Growing up with guru worship in the Hare Krishnas
• (04:22) - The Dangers of Guru Worship
• (05:57) - The Influence of Public Intellectuals
• (11:31) - The Impact of Social Media on Gurus
• (15:33) - The Crisis of Trust in Modern Media
• (28:13) - Capitalism and Media Coverage
• (28:34) - The Search for a Reliable Source
• (29:01) - Disappointment in Trusted Institutions
• (29:53) - The Role of Institutions and Individual Sources
• (32:08) - The Struggle with Information Overload
• (32:48) - The Burden of Individual Choice
• (34:42) - The Quest for Understanding and Trust
• (36:09) - The Fear of Uncertainty and the Search for a Guru
• (38:15) - The Dangers of Single-Source Reliance
• (40:16) - The Role of Dialogue in Understanding
• (44:19) - The Challenge of Finding Clarity in Chaos

Find out what controversial song was top of Ali's music wrap for the year. Oh, and we delve into parenting: 

• specifically, how should we influence our kids
• On the Road, Jack Kerouac; Homage to Catalonia, George Orwell; David Bowie all get a mention
• the influence we want to have, versus what really happens
• personal experiences, the influence of books and other texts versus direct communication
• feeling unsure about who to be as a parent and a person
• what are we actually shooting for with values and is it a simple transfer? No
• the concept of meaningful freedom and how it relates to addiction
• hyper gendered kids stuff, sugar, screens and other baddies
• the inevitable reflections on our own upbringing
• some of our current and past approaches to parenting, and hopes for the future
• spirituality gets another plug - and it hasn't even taken out a sponsorship

• (00:00) - Welcome and intro
• (00:27) - Influence on Children: Personal Experiences
• (01:27) - Power of Now, Books and Reading
• (03:11) - Passing on a love of music
• (04:34) - Values and culture
• (08:18) - What are values anyway. Not a simple thing
• (10:01) - What we try for vs what we get. Being yourself around your baby
• (13:43) - The Struggles of Parenting and Personal Growth
• (22:05) - The Influence of Social Media and Screen Time
• (33:54) - The Importance of Freedom in Parenting
• (34:32) - Avoiding Addiction Pathways in Parenting
• (35:11) - Transition from Control to Moderation
• (36:01) - Influence of Parental Values on Children
• (36:59) - The Importance of Apologizing and Kindness
• (37:36) - Raising a Kind and Sociable Child
• (41:33) - The Role of Curiosity in Parenting
• (43:31) - The Impact of Parenting on Children's Future
• (44:44) - The Power of Consciousness and Spirituality
• (57:57) - The Influence of Books and Reading
• (59:59) - The Role of Practice and Present Moment in Parenting

• The recent Robbie Williams documentary has kicked off many discussions about mental health
• Robbie's demeanour on screen reminded Ali of herself. He was had extraordinary energy before his collapse, as did Ali, with full time work, a small child, a backyard farm and making sourdough from scratch
• In the present, Ali can see that something inside Williams is 'still broken' or 'empty' even though he remains functional in most areas of life
• This led Ali to consider her life and self now, and compare it with her perception of self before her breakdown
• We collectively navigate Ali's personal journey through mental health challenges, including a severe breakdown that led her into a state of psychotic mania and hospitalization.
• Joe brings up Donald Winnicott and his concept of the 'good enough parent' which relates to the 'good enough self', which is the best self, because it is the True Self, as opposed to the ideal self, which is a False Self, and is not sustainable (leading to many problems including breakdowns). Winnicott also gave us the idea that 'the catastrophe we fear has already happened'- which also relates to Ali's experience clo
• We delve into the changes in energy levels, personal expectations, ambitions, and the perceived self after such an experience.
• We look for therapeutic and analytic angles to discuss the theme of death and mortality in Ali's breakdown
• Ali's story strongly reminds Sam of Joseph Campbell's idea of the Hero's Journey*. Sam proposes that Ali followed most of the stages of the Journey in her breakdown, but may have remaining analysis to complete on the Road Back to the Ordinary World.
• We touch on diagnostic perspectives, struggles with unmet expectations, and the thirst for normalcy
• Joe advocates for spiritual exploration as an intrinsic part of the journey of healing and understanding, and as the best way to meet that higher calling, to live a full life.

*Campbell's book The Hero With A Thousand Faces is an analysis of myth, through ideas from psycho therapy, . The journey is a model of psychological struggle and change in the self. In various stages the self must deal with a Call to Adventure which disrupts their world, they cross into an unknown world, they face dangers, and approach the innermost cave, with an increasing and impending feeling of life and death, they face an ordeal, a struggle and rebirth, an atonement and resurrection. The Road Back is also full of dangers, before we can re-enter the Ordinary World, but find ourselves changed, and our experience of the world forever altered.

Keywords: Mental Breakdowns, Recoveries, Energy Levels, Psychosis, Psychotherapy, Psycho-analysis, Mania, Winnicott, The Good Enough Parent, Spirituality, Higher Calling

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme and host intro
• (00:48) - Robbie Williams: another Ali Sam crossover
• (01:36) - The Attraction to Robbie Williams
• (02:39) - Mental Breakdowns: do we ever put the pieces back together again?
• (03:31) - Ali's Personal Experience with Mental Breakdown
• (05:08) - The Aftermath of a Mental Breakdown
• (05:32) - The Healing Process
• (08:09) - Ali's breakdown and afterwards
• (11:19) - The Struggle of Recovery
• (12:44) - Reflections on the Healing Journey
• (26:36) - Living in the Future: A Discussion on Expectations
• (26:40) - The Psych Ward Experience: Future Focus vs Present Moment
• (27:08) - Facing Mortality: A Personal Perspective
• (27:22) - The Illusion of Imminent Death and Its Impact
• (27:27) - The Struggle with Physical Health and Self-Perception
• (28:28) - The Power of Therapy: Understanding Psychosis
• (28:57) - The Reality of Perception: A Psychedelic Experience
• (29:49) - The Fear of Failure and the Pressure of Expectations
• (31:50) - The Fear of Disappointing Family and the Pressure of Social Scripts
• (37:55) - The Struggle with Energy Levels and the Desire for a Higher Calling

00:00 Theme and host intro
00:48 Robbie Williams: another Ali Sam crossover
01:36 The Attraction to Robbie Williams
02:39 Mental Breakdowns: do we ever put the pieces back together again?
03:31 Ali's Personal Experience with Mental Breakdown
05:08 The Aftermath of a Mental Breakdown
05:32 The Healing Process
08:09 Ali's breakdown and afterwards
11:19 The Struggle of Recovery
12:44 Reflections on the Healing Journey
26:36 Living in the Future: A Discussion on Expectations
26:40 The Psych Ward Experience: Future Focus vs Present Moment
27:08 Facing Mortality: A Personal Perspective
27:22 The Illusion of Imminent Death and Its Impact
27:27 The Struggle with Physical Health and Self-Perception
28:28 The Power of Therapy: Understanding Psychosis
28:57 The Reality of Perception: A Psychedelic Experience
29:49 The Fear of Failure and the Pressure of Expectations
31:50 The Fear of Disappointing Family and the Pressure of Social Scripts
37:55 The Struggle with Energy Levels and the Desire for a Higher Calling

We discuss the dangers of adhering to a single identity label, and the benefit of taking responsibility for our own actions and healing, while being aware that we are also inescapably interconnected with others.

 Identities such as Victim are necessary and useful, and can arise naturally from a life event such as an accident, an assault, or injustice, but also from ordinary childhood experiences, a personal identity, or a relationship dynamic. So we may come to identify as victim. This is normal, but over time our sense of self shifts greatly and we move through many identifications. to enable us to life more fully.

We've all been a victim, we all suffer, we all deserve comfort and help, and it's also true that we sometimes cling too long to a sense of being The Victim. We are usually right about that victimhood in some way, even with people who fraudulently claim victim status. While fraudulent victims provoke understandable outrage, as we see in the extraordinary case of Belle Gibson, such people are probably suffering in any case, and their fraud itself is an indicator that something is wrong in their lives.

Sam finds a related quote about Lacan's formulation of fantasy, the Other, the alienation of the subject, and restoring the dignity of the subject by letting go of fantasy. Marx and Zizek get a mention.

And we get into how spirituality and therapy both invite a deconstruction of ego and fantasies. The conversation concludes with the benefit of adopting broader, more interdependent perspectives on life.

Image courtesy: Craig https://www.instagram.com/p/CrFzDLgK7Mw/

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Being the victim
• (00:46) - Identity Politics and Neurodivergence
• (02:14) - The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle's book and a quote
• (02:23) - Eckhart Tolle's Influence and Impact
• (04:46) - Interpreting Eckhart Tolle's Quote
• (05:40) - Victimhood and Identity
• (21:54) - Responsibility and Victimhood
• (27:46) - The Ego and Therapy: A Complex Relationship
• (28:05) - The Role of Victim Mentality in Therapy
• (29:12) - The Struggle of Admitting Victimhood
• (30:19) - The Process of Analyzing and Accepting Trauma
• (31:33) - The Importance of Self-Responsibility in Therapy
• (31:51) - The Impact of Trauma on Identity
• (36:04) - The Role of Fantasy in Therapy
• (45:41) - The Paradox of Individuality and Interdependence
• (47:55) - Concluding Thoughts: The Illusion of the Separate Self

• Ali explains why white middle class people should maybe shut up. 
• Team discuss different social media platforms and shouting into the void
• Posting hot photos on Instagram as awareness raising? 
• The power of posting about stuff you have lived experience with. 
• Sam talks about the power of herd acceptance and how minds change more often than people realise. 
• The advantages of podcasts over social media for actually learning things. 
• The team discuss the information space and Australian politics. Joe talks about becoming a centrist because he’s so sick of being in the inner-city leftie bubble. 
• The Voice referendum is discussed. Sam accuses Joe of thinking people power is non-existent. 
• Facebook is waning fast but offered strong predictive data about Boomer voting intentions in said referendum  
• Ali mentions marriage equality as a successful campaign with a social media element. The Middle East rears it’s ugly head.
• Ali and Sam conclude that everyone has personal experience of everything and should post whatever they want, Joe is pissed off.

Enjoyed the ep? Share it with someone who might also enjoy it. https://share.transistor.fm/s/2982b484
Hit us up at instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme and intro
• (00:29) - Topic: Posting outside your personal experience - staying in your lane
• (01:52) - Political Discourse
• (02:06) - Predicting the Voice referendum based on Facebook posts
• (03:14) - Reflecting on Personal Social Media Usage
• (03:40) - Demographics of over posting
• (03:53) - Personal Background and posting - private school graduates
• (05:57) - Social Media for Social Change - who to listen to, making space
• (12:01) - Personal experience resonates more than opinion
• (29:35) - Analyzing Communication Strategies
• (30:17) - Class and Political Perception
• (31:19) - The Impact of Social Media on Politics
• (32:50) - The Role of Personal Involvement in Political Discourse
• (35:12) - The Power of Social Movements
• (37:04) - The Influence of Social Media on Social Movements
• (39:27) - The Complexity of Political Engagement
• (44:30) - The Role of Social Media in Raising Awareness

• Joe quotes the cliché that “Having a resentment is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to get sick” and links resentments to addiction. Ali talks about how resentments led to disordered eating.
• Joe proposes complete forgiveness for all harms and Sam says “That’s Christianity!” and also Hare Krishna. 
• The team discuss political resentments and justified resentment. 
• The concept of The Secret Place, which is consciousness, is elucidated.
• Ali brings up old people trapped in bitterness and resentment. 
• Sam discusses what memories came up for him when he had kids, and that he “is his parents”. 
• The team get into some deep therapy gear & discuss spiritual solutions to deep seated problems. 
• Joe realises Jesus is his homie. 
• Sam points out that while that might be true Joe is actually the Woman at the Well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_woman_at_the_well

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:22) - Host intro
• (00:31) - Discussing Personal Diagnoses and Neurodivergence
• (02:10) - Listener feedback: show blurb / we should discuss our diagnoses more
• (04:13) - The Impact of Resentments on Mental Health
• (24:20) - The Power of Forgiveness and Positive Thinking
• (27:49) - The Role of Therapy in Overcoming Resentments
• (31:49) - Personal Experiences with Resentments and Forgiveness
• (40:41) - The Influence of Parents and Childhood on Adult Relationships
• (50:44) - The Role of Spirituality in Overcoming Resentments
• (59:32) - Conclusion: The Continuous Journey of Self-Improvement

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

If you enjoy the show, others may also. It can be helpful to tell them what you get from it that you don't find elsewhere, and how to listen on their device. Find us at https://www.instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

We talk about the role of work pressures, unsustainable domestic roles, and the intensity of family life. 'Capitalism' gets a lot of the blame for mental breakdowns, from Ali and Sam at least. And we talk about how our ever-present childhood trauma may combine with recent experience and bring on a crisis.

The shame that comes from having a mental breakdown can cause people to deny or conceal their experience, or to never speak of it. People often go to extraordinary lengths to avoid breakdowns. We tend to recommend not doing that, however we are not doctors, so seek your own advice.

The benefits are many, and not just to the individual. A mental breakdown can signal problems that need addressing, by the person suffering directly, and by others around them. A proper breakdown will prompt the right adjustments much more effectively than a polite chat. It forces us to do what we need to do, which is often to rest, and give up all responsibilities completely, for some time, shorter or longer. By really pausing our lives, questioning all aspects of our existence, and what we think is important, we can build a new set of assumptions and priorities and begin again, changed.

We agreed that discussing breakdowns may be helpful to all. When people tell their stories, it highlights the pressures of life, and helps others to acknowledge their own pressures and breakdowns. It's a chance to share what has been learned.

People can gain valuable insights in the experience of our 'self' being deconstructed involuntarily, and through the task of building up the self again. We could think of it as dramatizing a process that occurs quietly, on a small scale, within us all. Every day, the self is put together and let go of again.

Mental breakdowns often come from unsustainable pressures on a person. It could be a combination of many things over time, and/or a few big things coinciding. People may cope with a lot for a long time, and then find they are unable to continue coping. People may begin a breakdown following a shock, a major change of role or identity, or a death. Or it may be something less obvious, and it may take a relatively long time.

The person experiencing breakdown may have been lacking what they needed to deal with a situation, or had habits or beliefs that needed to change. Sometimes people are able to adapt and avoid breakdown, through choice or unconscious adjustment, but a lot of us need to hit a brick wall in order to realise that we must change something in some way, whether it's ourselves, our beliefs, roles, or circumstances.

Meanwhile, people around the sufferer also have the change to recognise that things were unsustainable and to be part of making the right changes.
------------------------------
Image by Craig - Sycamore Gap - 'the Robin Hood tree'

Share: Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the ep share it from here https://tttt.transistor.fm/episodes/menty-b

Contact:
Say g'day at threads.net/@thetenthousandthingspodcast
or instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Platonic friendships – are men just biding their time? Sam recalls dating the hottest woman on Brunswick St, just to put it on the public record. Joe & Ali discuss their own weird bipolar friendship. Sam sings some Peter Allen.

Deep conversations between men without mind altering substances – are they possible?

Everyone wants to tell Ali and Joe their darkest secrets on dates but never want to see Joe again and want to be with Ali forever.

Sam discusses his major bromance break up.

We discuss money and class coming between people.

Sam talks about making friends his family at boarding school and that influences his adult friendships. 

Who can we really reach out to when we’re depressed?

We talk for twenty minutes after we say we’re wrapping up and it’s all gold!

• (00:00) - Letting go of friends
• (00:21) - Letting go of friends more as you get older
• (00:52) - It's not because 'you've outgrown them' - there's too much ego in that
• (01:42) - Real friends can grow apart and together and can help each other grow
• (02:52) - When I start juding a friend, I know it's done
• (04:17) - Not afraid to let go. It will create space
• (06:58) - Who are your go to people?
• (10:35) - Friends you only 'see' or talk to online
• (11:39) - A/romantic friendships - when Harry met Ali - Friendzone
• (23:08) - Bromances and Broking Up
• (25:36) - You cannot swing by another man's house for a cup of coffee?
• (29:24) - Some friends you can just 'go there' straight to the deep and meaningful
• (31:17) - The mandatory dating content part of every episode
• (34:03) - The problem with empathy
• (35:21) - 'I can't adjust my settings'
• (35:26) - Bipolar friendships / movies
• (37:02) - Drifting and ghosting
• (40:02) - Class, money, and friendships
• (43:18) - Accepting your life, judging other people, creating space
• (44:11) - Being the needy texter friend
• (46:44) - You're not moving on because you're better
• (50:02) - Not reaching out, doesn't mean I don't love you. Not wanting to 'impose'
• (53:16) - Deleting numbers
• (54:56) - Degendering friendship. Platonic/romantic, female/male, not so different

• Sam Ellis - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host

Two bipolar romance movies
Katie Holmes - Touched with Fire
Jennifer Lawrence - Silver Linings Playbook

If you like the show, tell a friend where to find us -> pod.link/tttt. Compliments, complaints, corrections at Insta/Threads, we're all in the metaverse dammit.

We discuss people who don’t think they need therapy. Ali mentions people who “prefer to work things out themselves”. 

Sam discusses the frustration of the session ending after 50 minutes – Joe says he wants an 8 hour MDMA therapy session – Sam wants to get on the ketamine.

Parents get a light going over. Sam discusses a breakthrough around his time in Hare Krishna boarding school. Things can’t be fully resolved, but they can be carried more lightly. 

Does Bill Burr think therapy is bullshit, or does he do it? (We think so)

Ali discusses sharing her darkest secrets with Joe and the trust involved in the that. 

We discuss psychiatrists vs psychologists and where bipolar comes from. Joe says he can intellectualise feelings but struggles to actually feel feelings. 

Ali says three years is the sweet spot for how long therapy should take to work. 

Sam reckons more like 10 years for him and talks about being exasperating. 

We conclude with a discussion of the psychoanalytic method and why we always end up back in childhood.

Thank you for listening and finding value here. Tell a friend where to find us. https://www.instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:17) - Intro
• (00:23) - How do we know therapy is working?
• (01:13) - Compare yourself to six months ago
• (01:44) - You forget how f***d up you were
• (02:39) - Journal entries help track progress
• (03:05) - Using prayer to overcome thoughts
• (04:18) - "They said I'm fine" said Person needing therapy
• (05:22) - You're here to 'do the reps'
• (05:40) - Is there a 40 year old that doesn't need therapy?
• (07:24) - Subsidised therapy in Australia
• (08:19) - Sometimes it wasn't working
• (08:50) - Write a long email - delete most of it
• (09:41) - Bill Burr and therapy
• (10:32) - End of a session, castration anxiety
• (13:22) - I haven't hit a limit with therapy yet
• (13:34) - I don't waste my time in there
• (14:13) - Pick any childhood memory and start there
• (14:35) - It's actually about NOT blaming your parents
• (15:36) - You're flawed, and your parents too
• (16:32) - The wound was already there
• (16:47) - Boarding school trauma - need to tell the story properly
• (18:24) - It's not about more recent things
• (19:16) - You feel you're doing what you need to be doing
• (19:36) - Not resolve, but hold it more lightly
• (22:48) - I'm curious about why people are like they are
• (24:33) - You don't need a pat on the back
• (25:54) - It's not about your diagnosis
• (27:07) - Therapy helps with nature and nurture
• (28:24) - My awful habit of giving advice
• (28:44) - I'm containing things more
• (29:23) - Getting to 'You're safe now'
• (31:05) - You can be trusted, you are a safe pair of hands
• (31:31) - Being persuaded you aren't a bad person
• (32:13) - Many women will begin with self blame
• (33:17) - Deconstruction and Construction
• (34:22) - The final level boss
• (37:32) - It may take three years
• (38:51) - Resisting therapy, realising you can change
• (41:42) - Neurotic misery to normal unhappiness

Sam discusses how to, whether we need to and to what extent we need to compromise.

Ali shares how a lot of women have fallen in love with the idea of being single.

We acknowledge all relationships require compromise however can we compromise our values? Can your values be flexible or do we become stuck in our ways the longer we remain single?

We also discuss in distorted times do distorted dynamics come in to play, is finding a sugar daddy/mamma the answer to living under capitalism?

Joe thinks we would be better off dropping some the mental load, but it is that possible for women when the expectation is that women need to manage that?

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:22) - Introduction
• (00:28) - Are we willing to compromise to be in a monogamous relationship?
• (01:37) - Compromise is unavoidable in life
• (02:38) - Values can't be traded away, but maybe stubborness and neurosis should be
• (03:55) - What about 'seeking arrangement' situations?
• (04:42) - The problem is really capitalism?
• (05:43) - A lot of couples used to have separate places
• (06:54) - I'm getting stuck in my ways
• (07:17) - I wanna be able to watch test cricket for seven hours
• (07:36) - Building a real structure, billionaires is just a distraction
• (08:56) - No time time left over from wage labor, to work on relationship challenges
• (11:30) - None of this is new?
• (11:48) - But the balance of domestic labor hasn't shifted that much
• (13:44) - You don't meet the ones who are domesticated cos they are too busy being marrie
• (15:00) - Whose job is it to read the school emails and deal with that?
• (18:12) - Couples work better when they play to their individual strengths, but don't assume women are better at organising things
• (19:10) - Maybe there is an outdated assumption about living together, kids aside
• (21:37) - Would I be happier if I couldn't be a slob?
• (22:38) - Another win for cat dads
• (24:01) - The ironing piles up
• (24:30) - Respect
• (25:58) - Why is it my job? I'm not actually good at cooking
• (27:40) - I release you from the need to give a fuck about that
• (28:16) - Carefully working through your expectations
• (31:30) - Compromises for fertility reasons
• (33:00) - "look at that c***, he never does the dishes"
• (33:43) - "Where's my compliments?"
• (34:16) - Why not give a compliment regularly?
• (36:01) - What are the benefits of a live in man?
• (38:08) - It just seems hard work to shack up
• (38:56) - From wildly scattered to structured
• (39:36) - Freedom is living by self-imposed rules
• (42:33) - Be protective of your peace
• (43:26) - Thinking about the kids when making partnering choices
• (46:48) - F*** it, I'll just go cat lady
• (47:36) - You're at peace with cat lady, but I don't want to be alone
• (50:03) - Men need this more than women, once we're on the second half of life
• (52:09) - The advantages of a cricket watching partner
• (53:09) - "This is unacceptable to me"

• Sam Ellis - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host

We appreciate your feedback. If you would like to reach out you can find us on threads and instagram @thetenthousandthings

Toasted sandwhich recipes:
Ali's: Put mayo on the outside, cheese and kimchi in the middle, cook in the pan
Sam's: Butter and oil in the pan*, low-medium heat, heavy base if you have it
Cheese - a mix of whatever, slices of mozarella, swiss, colby, cheer, whatever
Tomato paste, toss on some dried italian herb mix, fresh tomato (mandatory cheese above and below)
*(can butter the outside of the bread and just put it straight on the pan)

We acknowledge we are all victims of the patriarchy, but what tools do men have to help dismantle it? Why don't they identify with feminism and why are the gravitating towards extreme figures?

Ali explains why feminism has been helpful in plight of women, however men are not identifying with these strategies. Why can't men post photos of themselves and not be ridiculed?

Joe felt the interview was a little condescending. He asks if young boys have no lived experience of seeing women so openly objectified as they historically were, why are they feeling like somehow they are still responsible for it? We discuss how we can help the young men in our lives navigating these challenges.

Sam explores how the discourse analysis has been one sided and produced reactionary politics to feminism and how the facts of how men are negatively effected by the patriarchy is getting lost in the conversation.

We also discuss what men today can do to portray positive masculine role models for young men.

We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Find the interview here https://pod.link/995159486/episode/6573549cf512e72c5f770439a827702a

Publisher's page for What about men? by Caitlin Moran https://www.penguin.com.au/books/what-about-men-9781529149159

A decent article on patriarchy, men and masculinities - https://counseling.vcu.edu/students/identity-based-resources/men-and-masculinities/

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:08) - Introduction
• (02:19) - The difference between a girl posting a body shot and a boy doing the same
• (05:57) - Slight condescension
• (07:09) - 'What about my boy? How do I help and talk with my son?'
• (07:59) - Boys today don't have the context of the history of gender and why feminism needed to happen
• (08:50) - Boys and men still have their own stuff
• (09:50) - Both victim and beneficiary, oppressor and opressed
• (11:25) - Moran's analysis of gender is mainly about discourse
• (14:20) - Gender pay gap
• (16:04) - How is feminism going and how are girls really going?
• (16:47) - Moran kept hearing 'what about boys?'
• (17:12) - Moran is responding to the void, that Andrew Tate is profiting from
• (18:07) - Boys being attracted to what is forbidden/getting yelled at for reading Jordan Peterson years ago
• (23:32) - The context of the buzz around Peterson's first book, an upheavel in gender discourse
• (26:19) - It's important that 'what about boys' comes from a woman with a strong record advocating for girls and women
• (27:16) - Who are the good role models for boys?
• (28:21) - Bill Burr a good role model? A nuanced commentator on gender?
• (32:02) - 'Women are perfect/don't criticise women' is itself patriarchal
• (34:31) - What is patriarchy, again?
• (38:11) - Equal oppression? Would all genders benefit from a 3 or 4 day work week?
• (39:49) - Think about economics in our personal life
• (40:47) - Joe coming back around on class analysis
• (44:04) - How do we become role models for young men?
• (51:09) - 'Boys, your feelings don't matter, except when it's a problem for girls'
• (55:42) - So are the blokes okay?

We ask how do feelpinions affect our day to day? Are they needed to run the country or just good value in the cricket group chat?

We share what sources we use to get our facts and how the perceived value of those facts influence how we feel about them. Ali likes her ritual of subscription news, Joe enjoys paid substack articles from bloggers while Sam prefers primary sources and secondary analysis.

Can we trust our feelings and how do we manage our feelings when the facts feel terrifying? We explore how we manage the balance of fear with facts.

We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Episode image by Craig, catch more of his great stuff on the gram

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:19) - Introduction
• (00:31) - Definition, and fact checking is for other people
• (01:24) - Are opinions a problem?
• (01:59) - The wise mind - dialectical behaviour therapy
• (03:33) - Recognising error and culpability, exalted being / worthless being
• (04:44) - Extremes make each other - cops make hippies and hippies make cops
• (06:10) - They stole the presents from under the Christmas tree
• (08:47) - Speaking with an authoritative tone
• (09:59) - Feelpinions in sport
• (11:13) - The ideal republic governed by detached intellectuals?
• (11:54) - Subscribing to writers of long articles on Substack
• (13:48) - Rational to feel sick about wind turbines?
• (17:14) - SamGPT
• (17:59) - Paying someone to tell you what to think
• (19:11) - Joe used to read the Economist, and pay for it
• (19:30) - If you pay, you value it
• (21:32) - Noah Smith and Matt Yglesias
• (22:02) - Paying to get a better quality of opinion - The Age and Guardian suck now
• (25:13) - Following Ukraine conflict through bloggers, Telegram, and academics
• (27:35) - The incentive is to spread rumour
• (28:05) - The Age is very bad now - in case we didnt already say that
• (29:14) - Crowd funded blog journalists, Matt Yglesias, NoahPininion, Matt Taibbi
• (29:44) - The market beats us all out of shape in the end
• (30:02) - I'm interested once it becomes old news
• (30:44) - Why does Putin wanna kill me with a nuke?
• (31:22) - Putin will sort all the problems out
• (31:50) - MAGA still matters? Yes, and no. Christian Identity and Maga Communism
• (33:10) - So you guys aren't worried about facts being hard to establish?
• (33:22) - Is the Montana survivalist actually crazier than the Christian fascist?
• (33:50) - Planning for a future, what future? Losing a parent young
• (35:06) - Don't worry, we all love facts
• (35:24) - Distrusting your feelings
• (36:41) - Nixon didn't blow up Vietnam, not with nukes anyway
• (37:38) - I just need to talk this stuff through sometimes / don't worry about things you can't change
• (39:10) - Douglas Murray - read the news for five minutes only. Also he seems fash
• (39:59) - ABC News app
• (40:25) - Podcast recommendations
• (42:25) - Centrist and the lure of false rationality
• (43:10) - People don't read the articles we share
• (43:59) - Who would I send this to? No one, that's who
• (44:36) - Joe shoulld have his own feed: breaking down centrist coverage
• (45:24) - Michael Schellenberger
• (46:05) - The end of the world is not the end of the world
• (47:00) - The algorithm treats us to the dialectic, too much of this, and now, too much of the other
• (48:06) - Joe Rogan and Greta Thunberg
• (49:33) - Joe Rogan before he was really big
• (51:10) - Lucky to have wise friends
• (51:41) - Feelings help absorb the facts
• (52:55) - A vague sense that we might muddle through

• Sam Ellis - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host

• (00:00) - Theme

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:19) - Introduction

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:19) - Topic summary
• (00:48) - Quotation Corner - Bowie on becoming the person you should have been
• (26:32) - Announcement - show length poll results
• (27:18) - Non monogamy
• (59:06) - Listener mail - Communism, human nature

1 - How did our parents values shape our own?

Ali shares how she's not only grown into her parents' values. Sam explores the dichotomy of how his parents created a culture of questioning in a Hare Krishna environment and Joe shares how his parents politics influenced their values. We also ask whether boomers will ever be able to see how good they had it.

2 - Is crying for losers?

Ali shares how her views on crying have changed and how she's come to embrace it. Sam details some anecdotes of how women don't like crying and how that impacts men feeling comfortable expressing emotions. Joe explains why he would like to be able to tap into the cathartic experience of crying. We also discuss how our own attitudes towards crying have shaped our responses to seeing other people cry. 

The Relationship of Gender Roles and Beliefs to Crying in an International Sample

3 - Jaded dating profiles

We delve into jaded dating profiles, should we be using the space to express our deal breakers, or if you get to that point, should you just take a break?

------ (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

• (00:00) - Preview
• (00:50) - Theme
• (01:17) - Topic summary
• (01:34) - What values did we get from our families?
• (43:45) - Crying - the good, the bad, the ugly
• (01:02:22) - Jaded dating app profiles
• (01:25:52) - Encourage our nonsense: is it the length, or what you do with it?
• (01:27:39) - Talk to us direct on instagram, or email if you're that way
• (01:28:02) - Arguing over the show insta
• (01:28:50) - Why follow the show insta? For Ali and Joe's music picks of course
• (01:29:42) - Ragging on Ali's cat photos - white woman's instagram

Do we read books anymore? / How do you rate yourself? / Is spirituality just watered down religion?

1 - Are you a book dragon or a book worm? We ask how in an ever increasing time poor society is there time to read and does it matter what medium and content you're reading?

Sam shares why he believes physical books are not necessary and that reading and learning are more accessible than ever before. Joe is worried the kids are not reading anymore and longs to be able to curl up at night with a good book. Ali shares why she loves to give away her books. 

2 - If we can't all be 7s can we objectively rate ourselves? We break down why the system of rating is complex and the value we place different attributes. Why do men consistently rate themselves higher and women lower?

Ali believes comparison is the thief of joy and we should just try to find the people who think we are 10s. Sam shares how as we get older, through hard work you can improve your rating and Joe discusses the different values men and women places on looks vs other attributes. We all agree we are ageing like fine wines.

3 - Listener mail from Hugh McGinlay - we give Hugh a second bite of the apple and ask if modern day spirituality is just watered down religion and discuss the courage to pursue your beliefs.

Joe explains how his experience of God has been profound in his life. Ali shares and why she places her faith in science. Sam is still waiting for a sign. We explore if we don't need organised religion anymore can we connect with the divine through psychosis, drugs and sex?

Art by Craig Wishart

And a little DVD extra - a chat about Ali joining the show

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/11/style/therapy-speak-dating.html

“I don’t know if I’ve learned anything yet! I did learn how to have a happy home, but I consider myself fortunate in that regard because I could’ve rolled right by it. Everybody has a superficial side and a deep side, but this culture doesn’t place much value on depth — we don’t have shamans or soothsayers, and depth isn’t encouraged or understood. Surrounded by this shallow, glossy society we develop a shallow side, too, and we become attracted to fluff. That’s reflected in the fact that this culture sets up an addiction to romance based on insecurity — the uncertainty of whether or not you’re truly united with the object of your obsession is the rush people get hooked on. I’ve seen this pattern so much in myself and my friends and some people never get off that line.

But along with developing my superficial side, I always nurtured a deeper longing, so even when I was falling into the trap of that other kind of love, I was hip to what I was doing. I recently read an article in Esquire magazine called ‘The End of Sex,’ that said something that struck me as very true. It said: “If you want endless repetition, see a lot of different people. If you want infinite variety, stay with one.” What happens when you date is you run all your best moves and tell all your best stories — and in a way, that routine is a method for falling in love with yourself over and over.

You can’t do that with a longtime mate because he knows all that old material. With a long relationship, things die then are rekindled, and that shared process of rebirth deepens the love. It’s hard work, though, and a lot of people run at the first sign of trouble. You’re with this person, and suddenly you look like an asshole to them or they look like an asshole to you — it’s unpleasant, but if you can get through it you get closer and you learn a way of loving that’s different from the neurotic love enshrined in movies. It’s warmer and has more padding to it.” - Joni Mitchell on long term commitment
 
 2 - What little things do we do that help us?
 
 Sam finds staying connected to friends, family and yourself most beneficial. Joe has found self care rituals to be very helpful. Ali shares why blondes have the most fun and why we should all "take a thousand naked pictures of yourself"
 
 3 - Quotation corner "If the very worst comes to pass we'll only be dead, a very common and ultimately bearable occurrence"
 
 Joe realises he needs to uproot his fear of death in order to enjoy life. Ali shares why her view on death has changed. Sam has learnt that you fear death the most when you're wasting your time, so use your time wisely.

Cover Image: Be Here Now - Ram Dass

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

• (00:00) - Be Here Now
• (01:00) - The language of therapy, in dating
• (27:20) - The little things that can help our mental health
• (39:32) - Death - getting our heads around it

1 - What are the benefits of emerging AI technologies? Will it advance us or be our undoing?

Will Joe's doomsday predictions come to fruition or will it be a golden age for human creativity? Ali has mixed feelings, will we make not just our jobs but ourselves redundant? Sam is hoping if not for complete marxist revolution that it will create a universal usefulness guarantee where we are all earning, learning and caring.

2 - What are the benefits of neurodiversity? Is capitalism maladaptive to diversity or does this diversity play a vital role in a healthy eco-system?

Ali shares her experience of re-framing her vulnerabilities as strengths and how her neurodiverity has made her better at work. Can Joe be a shaman in this capitalist hell-scape? Sam shares how he's been able to mitigate some of the chaotic elements into passion projects.

3 - Quotation corner "I can do nothing for you but work on myself and you can do nothing for me but work on yourself" - Ram Dass

Can people really change? Joe addresses some feedback from boomers, are we just navel gazing or are we really "doing the work"? Sam examines the benefits of being able to check your own bullshit and Ali shares why it's in fact not selfish to put yourself first.
Photo by Tim Mossholder on Unsplash

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

Image: Just Stop Oil targeting art with soup. Now that’s what I call art

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

1. Joe asked, so Sam explains that before treatment for ADHD, getting things done was endlessly frustrating and chaotic. It's not magically better now, but there's been many improvements and achievements in around nine months. To be fair a lot of that is also coming from a lot of groundwork done in therapy before drug treatment. We also talk bipolar disorder, and some differences in experience between conditions with highly acute aspects such as bipolar and a condition with mainly chronic aspects such as ADHD

Joe worries about 'overwhelm' not being correct English, but that word has been very well established for quite a while now. Columbia Journalism Review has a great piece from 2017 about 'overwhelm' entering English!

2. Sam goes off the deep end about education, ticking all the manifesto boxes. Total rebuild of the education system - tick. Paolo Freire - tick. Learning is hard. No, you're not bad at maths. You need to learn how to learn. You must build a range of qualities and skills, not just stuff you're already good at. You must learn to engage critically with reality. Know where you're at and when in history you are situated and what might be coming. Understand you are a being capable of knowledge and ignorance. You must construct your own means of self-liberation, by engaging with reality, and with others. Joe says 'so you Robin Williams them?'. Not really, but yes, sometimes.

3. Quotation corner is a doozy. But it always is. The bad news is you're falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is, there's no ground. Attributed* to Chogyam Trungpa Get that into you. It's a high mountain breeze. It'll change your life, really let it settle into your being. 

The things you're worried may not be real, and even if they are real enough, they may not be the problem you think they are, or a problem at all. Having said that Buddhists do theoretically believe in reincarnation and maybe that comes into this quote. But Sam's says it's not strictly about death not being final or not a probem, but about the relationship between experiencer and experienced, and how we can get past a sense that life is an intolerable nightmare, and just deal with it as it is. Also, you're literally truly just endlessly falling through space, but also in a metaphorical sense. And that's actually pretty cool when you think about it. Also terrifying. Definitely that, as well.

*Stack Exchange can't find the source. Wikiquote has no parachute for Chogyam Trungpa, who mentioned parachutes once, which may have inspired Ram Dass, a Joe favourite: "You only suffer if you are attached. If you think you’re young and you start to grow old, you suffer because you’re busy thinking you’re young. If you’re not standing anywhere, where is the suffering? No pain. So, you finally realize it’s as if you jump out of an airplane and there’s no parachute, but there’s no Earth. You could just keep doing it. It’s all skydiving from there on in. So, for a person who realizes that, suffering — although you don’t go after it because you’re not a masochist — isn’t pushed because you realize it’s teaching you something."

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

Image: Edward Coley Burnes-Jones: Sisyphus

1. Christmas - Quite a few people are not into Christmas at all so here is a A Christmas Survival Guide

Why do people hate christmas? Hear from the internet masses here - it's a lot of the same reasons that Joe does. Too much booze, too much pretend, enforced intimacy, stress, loss, sadness and expense. Not having the extended family, and when there was the extended family, it wasn't great. Or do kids who have Christmas, just kind of enjoy it and don't notice or ignore what's going on with the adults?

On Christmas Day Joe will be on the road northwards, listening to non-Christmas tunes. It's all about that Boxing Day Test. When that starts - the pressure is off, finally. Picture him driving to the sounds of Neil Young - Unknown Legend

2. Note to Self - Let it Stream

Let things be as they are. You can't push away the negative thought. Don't hold onto the positive thought. Don't even try to push away the annoyance at having to just accept the existence of thoughts that you don't like.

Change the channel - a cognitive behavioural therapy method for dealing with intrusive thoughts.

Is cognitive behavioural therapy NOT the best thing ever? It won't get to the REAL stuff. Well that's what Lacanians and Freudians say. There's lots of other good modes of counselling and psychotherapy. 

But change the channel works. Being annoyed or tortured by intrusive thoughts? Change the channel by putting another thought there. Read a sign or a license plate. Disrupt the other thought. Probably more productive than just trying to push it away.

That's Facts - A dark brooding romantic fixer upper

Does Joe sometimes choose to lead on a date with a troubled self over a fun self? Both selves are real, so which to present? Present nothing, just let things be as they are? Does the fixer upper always fail? Is there anything wrong with two people wanting to entertain the same illusion, that we will always have fun, or that we can save each other?

Does anyone really want a fixer upper for a partner? Why? To help entertain their own delusion that they are magical, which is much easier when the other person sees the magic in you, and one way to do that is to invite someone looking for magic solutions in their life.

I hope we all get through the holiday period best as we can. Truly, blessings and best wishes to all, and if there is a miracle for you, that's great. It can be a season for endings and undoings and also new beginnings. Maybe you can invent a great new tradition with a collection of dear people, whether they you biological kin or not. Sam: Merry Christmass/Merry 'this time of year' to one and all, may the goddess bless you

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - 15 - A Christmas Special
• (20:01) - Note to self - let it stream
• (38:40) - That's Facts - Brooding darkly Romantic fixer upper

We mention Sengcan a lot: sage, poet and 3rd Patriarch of Chan Buddhism. Famous for (maybe) writing Xinxin Ming sutra (scripture/poem).  Read it here. It begins like this:

The Great Way is not difficult / for those who have no preferences

When love and hate are both absent / everything becomes clear and undisguised

Make the smallest distinction, however / and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart

If you wish to see the truth / then hold no opinions for or against anything

To set up what you like against what you dislike / is the disease of the mind.

When the deep meaning of things is not understood / the mind’s essential peace is disturbed to no avail

The Way is perfect like vast space / where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess

Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject / that we do not see the true nature of things.

Be serene in the oneness of things / and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves

1. Revolutions. Do Marxists want things to get worse? What do Marxists mean when they talk about 'exposing the contradictions inherent in capitalism"? Are Victorian Socialists just nice young middle-class people who want to make things better? Often. Should a family doctor struggle to buy a home? No. But we are seeing a lot of that. This + many other absurdities in this country, might create the conditions for a revolution. I recommend the Revolutions podcast, wrapping up now. Mike summarises hundreds of episodes in the Appendix series. I've made a playlist for easier listening 

Will Australia actually have a revolution? Very unlikely, but becoming less unlikely? A major dummy spit by doctors, teachers, nurses, and every kind of wage worker, volunteer and carer, is called for. That's my opinion anyway.

Also the Herald-Sun could not get Dan Andrews kicked out, because he makes people build things, and cos chippies, brikkies, sparkies, builders, laborers, and taxi drivers have phones to scroll on now. Why would they read about how Dan Andrews pissed in their cornflakes, had a poo with the door open, and took the last tim tam, last ciggy and last beer from the fridge, when they have thirst traps to look at, and mates to hang shit on in chat all day?

2. "Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish opinions" - Sengcan. Creating false distinctions in the mind causes problems. But also, if you forget about truth, and stop having so many opinions, you can have some space inside, and truth can actually come in. Freddy Nietzsche drops in: 'Truth' and the search for truth are no trivial matter; and if a person goes about searching in too human a fashion, I'll bet he won't find anything!'

3. Actually the paparazzi provide a valuable public service, by helping to reveal the contradictions inherent in capitalism?

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

1. Boundaries, romantic fiascos, anxious attachment. Why do I wonder if I'm real while waiting for a reply? Texting too much. Getting in touch with exes when there's nothing to discuss. School of Life: Can Exes Be Friends? Thinking you're the good guy, but the motives are all wrong. Every Time the Sun Comes Up (I'm in trouble): Sharon Van Etten 

Stopping as much dishonesty with yourself and others as you can, is one of the keys to recovering from addiction and regaining control of yourself and life. Yes, Woolworths are crooks but you can't live by their ethics. They do own a lot of pokies and that is theft also. But quitting petty theft and fare evasion, very good for you. GetUp! Woolworths campaign

2. The idea of your mother is not your mother. Can't find the source of this quote, but I read some psychology articles. Some people have mean mothers which is very bad for you. Some have difficult mothers, a challenge into adulthood. The dismissive mother can be hard to get over. Mummy Issues article is a good summary. Role playing and therapy can help couples get past mum issues and work as a team rather than isolated individuals

Gregory Batesom wikipedia The map is not the territory, and the name is not the thing named / Finally, in the dim region where art, magic, and religion meet and overlap, human beings have evolved the “metaphor that is meant,” the flag which men will die to save, and the sacrament that is felt to be more than “an outward and visible sign, given unto us.” Here we can recognize an attempt to deny the difference between map and territory, and to get back to the absolute innocence of communication by means of pure mood-signs." Bateson wikiquote

Joe's word portraits of extras. Can you meditate with aliens, and turn your ASD and ADD into powers? Can we handle the full reality of all others? Bodhisattva can

Jung on Love/Relationships a spiritual path for the 21st century and Individuation in Marriage Through Wounding and Healing / Marriage, life’s greatest intimacy, paradoxically delivers both wounding and healing and challenges to the full our capacities for self-acceptance and self-giving. In this lecture, Dr. Stein examines the mysteries and dynamics of married life."

Tool - Sober
Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Photo by Phil Hearing 

1. We get into why the internet can be a good presence, and a bit about Joe's experience with click-bait being a big problem even in 'quality' press

Sam is happy he can find: good visual artists and audio/video producers, cool stuff to make things with, and pats on the head for making things. Joe has a harder time with the internet - finds it too top down + it shows him scary stuff + dating apps can be a hamster wheel of deadening gamification.

Also, remember that funny era when people wrote long emails about their overseas travels? I remember. And I did it to people. My dad did too, but his emails were good.

It's headed straight for us! Oh wait, it's not. Gotcha! 

ABC coverage of the same story

The Guardian comes in for another shellacking from both of us. While on opposite ideological sides to Alex Jones, have The Guardian occasionally employed similar tactics to the infamous Info Wars host: "things are really bad, planet endingly bad, and only this brave outlet can save you, so give us your support." - see Knowledge Fight

Try newsletters - Future Crunch and current events pods - Bullshit Filter - examines / triangulates reporting on one issue, adds historical perspective, gives a range of interpretations

Personalities: Roger Pielke Jr - wikipedia  - political scientist analysing climate policy and modelling

Michael Shellenberger - wikipedia - used to work in PR. just a nuclear crank? maybe. also blames progressives for drug addiction and rising incarceration.

Briahna Joy Gray - wikipedia - rising star of political media. Very strong insta - her awesome Bad Faith youtube channel here her Bad Faith podcast insta here

Ash Sarkar - who famously said to Piers Morgan "I'm Literally a Communist You Idiot" - on her Novara Media youtube channel, doesn't put heaps on her insta

2. Shunryu Suzuki full quote "Leave your front door and your back door open. Allow your thoughts to come and go. Just don’t serve them tea.” Quora article about the quote

3. Freedom is obedience to self-formulated rules Aristotle

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Photo by Andy Holmes on Unsplash 

1. Being in the Moomba Parade as a Hare kid, in a fierce competition with the Gas and Fuel Corporation for Moomba float prizes / Krishnas coverage of Moomba  Back to Godhead magazine July 1985

(Does Moomba mean 'up your bum'? Was it revenge from Bill Onus for Moomba organisers deliberately upstaging Labor Day in a plot against workers?)

Hare Krishna Moomba on youtube, closer to 1990

George Harrison explains why chanting Hare Krishna does something

Going to India. The shock of recognition. Discovering that one religion borrowed heavily from another one. If a Sikh person offers you a cookie from in a passing parade of dancing and singing... take the cookie, and hopefully it might change you. Pilgrimage could be to India, or New York.

Whatever happened to the Hare Krishnas? Life in Hare Krishna boarding school

2. "I love you, keep going" - not an inspiration from instagram, but a guy in New York with a very uncomfortable skin condition. Try it yourself!

3. The beach - why is it such a great place to think and let go of your worries? Because it's liminal. The littoral is the line between land and sea. It's always moving. This is a reminder that everything is temporary, and that either relaxes you or can freak you out. Don't even worry it's all good, that house on the cliff, you can't afford it, and it will fall in the sea one day. The almighty ocean says 'you are small' and that's good

But also the beach can mean body image worries. And that's why lots of us are not 'beach people' and neither is Joe, not in that way. But he sure loves a walk on the beach.

Coastline paradox 

Fractal dimension of coastline of Australia, in the journal Nature

Earth scale fractals

Earths most beautiful fractals

Fractals and Britain's coast

Image: a Hare Krishna flat from Back to Godhead magazine. Sometime in the 80s

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

1. Joe at 19 in Bangkok, Thailand. A story he needs to tell, as life has not been the same since, but maybe it can be okay. Taxi drivers. Getting picked up by the tourist police. A strait jacket. A hospital, and a giant syringe. A gripping tale.

Hey, maybe humanity is not so bad after all. Humankind: A Hopeful History by Rutger Bregman, also wrote Utopia for Realists

2. Clinging: "If we do not cling, everything that arises is naturally freed" 

Level 1 of Not Clinging? Getting into arguments on the internet, but being okay with how it turns out. Not needing other people to believe what you believe.

Does Sam get pwned in the comments on Isaac's video. You decide. It doesn't matter, but I think I did okay. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ciuq7fgg1Ra/ 

Bhagavad Gita can teach us a lot about letting go, so can Epictetus and Seneca. Buddhism and the Gita agree Attachment and acquisition leads to suffering 

Relaxing Bhagavad Gita audio summary on youtube

Hank Williams, as sung by Steve Earle. I'll Never Get Out of This World Alive

Victor Frankl "If there is a meaning in life at all, then there must be a meaning in suffering. Suffering is an ineradicable part of life, even as fate and death."

Samsara - the forest fire of existence. Suffering

Dharma - the way, knowledge of the path, duty, what is and what must be done and must be accepted. Can also mean religion

Traditionalism "The War for Eternity" (and to subjugate women, the non-'white' and the non-straight) Ben Teitelbaum on Steve Bannon, Alexander Dugin etc

Tulpas - beings made out of our own thoughts - an idea from Buddhism but via Theosophy, which is a whole 'nother story

Buddhism is great. Here's a critique of some aspects of Buddhism

Paul Axton - peace loving Christian dude who knows his stuff and loves Lacan and Zizek. Peaceable Kingdom - Heaven on Earth?

All traditions can be problematic, and all can offer solutions. Peace to all

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Where did all the house parties go? Did we grow up? Did we get sick of it? What about dinner parties?

Is Joe not getting invited to dinner parties? Do they actually happen? Are people afraid their space or their entertaining won't be good enough? Are we all just hellishly busy with whatever? 

Sam's Attention Deficit Disorder gets in the way of organising get togethers, that's for sure.

But what do we actually want from socialising and partying? Is dancing the best part? Should we just cut straight to that? No Lights No Lycra, no alcohol, no small talk needed, just dancing in the morning in the dark. It's good.

Why do I find something that's good for me, and love it, and plan on doing it again, only to not do it again? Why do I talk myself out of good things?

Why wait? Don't die wondering. Show up for the good things. The best things in life are on the other side of blocks.

I'm just getting FOMO about things that don't exist.

We procrastinate things we have to do. But way sadder than that is procrastinating things you actually want to do.

"1) Living in the same place as the people you love matters. I probably have 10X the time left with the people who live in my city as I do with the people who live somewhere else.

2) Priorities matter. Your remaining face time with any person depends largely on where that person falls on your list of life priorities. Make sure this list is set by you—not by unconscious inertia.

3) Quality time matters. If you’re in your last 10% of time with someone you love, keep that fact in the front of your mind when you’re with them and treat that time as what it actually is: precious."

2. Note to self - contract or expanding

Not expanding the ego, but expanding your consciousness until it blends with everything and you're not in the way of yourself anymore.

Loch Kelly mindfulness

Is this actually a problem, or do I just think it's a problem?

3. Highly sensitive persons - more on HSP from Psychology Today 

Sensitivity can come from childhood experiences, or a genuine threat to our belonging, status, certainty and so on. Sometimes we need to get over ourselves. I couldn't tell the difference between ribbing and hostility. But a well-aimed joke at our expense can also show that we belong in a group. So making fun of ourselves and others is very helpful. And so is biting the dust in life, often enough to learn that we can recover.

Speaking of consciousness expansion, once upon a time I watched Ridley Scott's Aliens and suddenly had a mind-blowing experience of seeing the beauty and wonder of the universe contained in another person, only to realise it was the same universe in all of us, and we are all one! Then back to the movie. No drugs involved.

Thanks for listening! Tell a friend where to find the show.

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

1. Sport can be an antidote to the messy and unresolved nature of life.

There may not be a higher meaning to sport, but does there have to be.

We need playfulness, and doing things together. Everything can be ridiculous when you look at it the right way, and test cricket really pushes the envelope in that way. Maybe if you can sit through a whole test series without getting distracted constantly, you might be enlightened.

ennui [ɒnˈwiː] NOUN a feeling of listlessness and dissatisfaction arising from a lack of occupation or excitement:

2. As long as the thing you are looking for is outside of yourself, it will never be enough.

We need to be there for others. Some have it harder than others, but we have a lot of what we need inside. If we're up late scrollin, or drinkin, or datin, maybe you won't find it. It's already there, if we can stop looking. I can't get no, satisfaction.

3. Education happens to us all. Some get some fancy ed, and maybe think they're better. But it's not so. We all suffer on the way through, and we all have something to learn, and to teach. Each one, teach one. We'll all get through. ---
Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

1. Listener mail - Eben crushes it with a killer question that really revs us up. Do the 10,000 things, or seek enlightenment? Neither. Both. Thank you so much Eben. Don't let us confuse you about enlightenment, you've got this. Keep doing what you're doing. We are here for this practical, get-on-with-it Mid-West vibe.

Guided meditation by Australian Buddhist nuns.

Tao te Ching - get into it, it's a great read, lots of good advice, practical, relaxing, and sometimes funny as well. A typical youtube version of Tao te Ching

Henry Shukman - "Take them as you will... pointers to help us in our lives, and guide us towards greater kindness and less harm, more love, and lives that are more open to witnessing this world, and calling out it's injustices, to seeing them. And to be able to do that without reactivity. Offering calm to the world, in it's turmoil."

Chop wood, carry water. Wash dishes, fold laundry

“Before Enlightenment…You chop wood and carry water, but secretly wish to get out of it all. You bear with these activities through habit and out of hopelessness, but you really wish you could do something else. In a way, you are a victim, a slave — the wood chops you and the water carries you, and there is no way to escape…After Enlightenment, you are in harmony with the universe…so you see that there is nothing more important than chopping wood and carrying water. All activities are equalized, there is no preference, no discrimination. Because there is no ‘you’, no ego, no personality, no being, no separate individuality — there is no conflict. No need to escape…because you have mastered your mind, you are not chopped by the wood and carried by the water anymore. You can flip your perspective at will. It is your choice to chop wood and carry water, and you live it in complete suchness and spontaneity.”

2. Introducing a regular segment: "Note to Self." Today's note: Is that rock heavy? Ajahn Chah says "Only if you pick it up." jackkornfield.com/bio/

3. Climate anxiety- don't beat yourself up to no good purpose? Stop telling your kids they'll die from climate change

Our World in Data

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Photo by Jay Esteban on Unsplash

• (00:00) - The Kiwi Mime Clown at the End of The World
• (00:20) - Marker
• (12:10) - Marker
• (17:05) - Marker

1. Camille Paglia, Sexual Personae en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Camille_Paglia / Paternity may be a legal fiction. Who is the father of any son that any son should love him or he any son? James Joyce

Feeling like you have to do heaps with yr kids. They wanna chill. So do you. Connect with yr kids through frustration. Deal with dumb stuff by getting on the same page and conspiring in fun 

2. Capitalism: what even am it? Magic? Water? www.sloww.co/this-is-water-david-foster-wallace/ Do we live in capitalism, or social democracy with regulated markets? Neo-liberalism?

Capitalism lifted millions from poverty? Or state investment in infrastructure, development and services? Regulation or free market? Both 

Are u out of Marxism if you buy a cheap house and it goes up? R u hypocritical if you talk about overthrowing capitalism but also cash in? Did they get rich from capitalism or government intervention: wealth transfer via Peter Costello?

Shut up about capitalism/socialism? Centrism or leftism? Look at data, history, work with others to get things we need. Back away from hating/loving capitalism/socialism and get in the messy middle, away from hope and fear, from the exalted self and the lowly self.

Is $ real? Just shut up and make $ or do something useful? Make art or money, stop whinging? 

Not the end of the world. End of capitalism? Francis Fukuyama, The End of History and the Last Man (1992) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama Liberalism 4eva? Good one, Francis. Maybe he gets the last laugh one day 

Getting excited by Bernie Sanders. But we already have medicare for all in Australia yay! Why so obsessed with America? We need USA in one piece

Frederic Jameson: Postmodernism or the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism (1985) describes the culture we've been living in. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism is actually a pretty old idea

You first see a food delivery worker. Do you think 'that's capitalism' or 'the last days of the Roman Empire'? Amazon = own system: not free market or capitalism. Techno-feudalism. Yanis Varoufakis explains. www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2021/11/06/star-trek-vs-the-matrix-chatting-with-briahna-joy-gray-about-my-another-now-on-bad-faith/

3. Identity: kids teach you how identity is made. Watch carefully. Gender made by childhood consumption. Is Identity choice, or thrust upon us? Does it limit the freedom of all? Identity is oppression? 

Krishna: Abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear www.asitis.com/18/66.html Neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, man nor woman, for you are all one in Christ Jesus - Galatians 3:28

Paul Watson forgingploughshares.org Christianity that frees us from violence and identity? Escape identity through God? But we can't all be Jesus. Meditation? Joe's prayer: I ask only to be free of self-pity and selfishness and do my small part. Joe drops the W word - wokeism. Douglas Murray, beware identity politics cos whitey can do it too, has been for years. instagram.com/thenewevangelicals

Slavoi Zizek: I'm not saying anything big or revolutionary, we need a little bit more radical politics, but like, social democracy. I’m very much against all this Nietzschean “against good and evil” ideas. I’m for kind of a common morality. There are no big provocations here daily.jstor.org/getting-a-grip-on-slavoj-zizek-with-slavoj-zizek/

Examine whiteness? Sure. It's more about working together than being pure. Hate wins if we concentrate on identity? Time to get workin class? We're all working class. Greens are watermelons, red inside? twitter.com/MChandlerMather

Share an ep, follow, chuck some stars if you please. A thousand thanks.

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Musical theme by maestro Ehsan Gelsi recorded live at the Melbourne Town Hall

Image: unsplash.com/@koushikc

Work
Good to have a role. Structure is connection. People on Joe's psych ward, dosed with news, nothing to do. Some have too much. Work with fair rewards, dignity, autonomy, meaning, and time away!

Judging people
Joe says Sam doesn't judge that much. Joe judged two Gertrude St tiny dog yuppies, then a lady with a lot of work done, but saw that it's hard for her too. We love you, Toorak lady. It's not easy 

It doesn't matter who you are or how much you have, everyone has a hard road (Dylan's grandma)

Maybe we judge when threatened or insecure. Maybe Sam is a lucky bastard doesn't have to deal with difficult people. 

Ram Dass - we look at trees without judgement, but judge people. People are like trees. Some get more water, light, nutrients, shelter than others. Life bends us all.

Men are born soft and supple
 dead, they are stiff and hard
 Plants are born tender and pliant
 dead, they are brittle and dry

Thus whoever is stiff and inflexible
 is a disciple of death
 Whoever is soft and yielding
 is a disciple of life

The hard and stiff will be broken
 The soft and supple will prevail

Tao te Ching 76

Trying to know everything

Sam Harris: reach exceeds his grasp. Joe says good meditation app. Free for low-income, grab that

Sam Ellis: showing off is fun. Bigging yourself up is hard work. It destroys your peace. The world needs knowing, so we can help it. So many clever people. Let's learn from them

Why seek knowledge, if not to act? Joe's Jabiluka/refugee arrests are behind him for now

The more I see, the more I know, the more I know, the less I understand - Paul Weller - Changingman

Slavoi Zizek - Don't act, think

Letters 1. No hope or fear, how do we act? Hope and fear agitate us. Aim for peace

Success is as dangerous as failure
 Hope is as hollow as fear

--

Both praise and shame
 invite anxiety and fear
 Serving one’s ego
 only leads to a fiasco

Tao te Ching 13

Tao in You - help with fear and anxiety

Desires of the belly: easy. Desires of the mind: impossible.

We act out of ignorance, passion or goodness

2. Men, feelings, talk. Footy helps. Can we chat without gender?

Zen + the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

If there's something inside that you wanna say
 You can say it out loud, it'll be okay
 I will be your light Dry the Rain - Beta Band Spotify

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Musical theme by maestro Ehsan Gelsi recorded live at the Melbourne Town Hall

Sam finally tells (part of) the boarding school story, which does involve a bit of corporal punishment and vague military or martial vibes. Some Hari Krishnas were feeling a bit judged and vulnerable in those days, and perhaps that explains it.

Reclaiming labels that people mock you with. And snitches get stitches.

We structure up: bells announce the conclusion of a topic.

When you have ADHD you need structure. You have to create it for yourself.

Structure also allows for better connection, better relationships, better work and play.

Unlike the relationships we had in our twenties, not always very structured. Two entertaining people. Two agents of chaos. One drawn to intensity. One drawn to stability, with no idea how to provide it for someone else or take personal responsibility.

Struggling with commitment. Playing at being adults in a forever relationship, when you're nowhere near being able to accomplish that.

Idealism and realism. Hope and fear. Buddhists say "no hope, no fear", and therapy does that I reckon. So does AA. Alcoholics very often have 'high ego and low self-esteem.' AA is very good at crushing down the ego. Right-sizing the ego. But AA doesn't always raise the self-esteem at the same time. 

Ordinary mind, ordinary self. Treat everything as important, but hold these things lightly at the same time. Fantasies of the future and past are just that. Be in the present. See things and other people clearly, clear mind, clear heart.

Making progress and getting better at being on time. Good practice. Being a hard to reach friend. 

Everything is important. Everything is sacred. Holy holy holy as Alan Ginsberg said.

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Musical theme by maestro Ehsan Gelsi recorded live at the Melbourne Town Hall

15.00 - Wanting to feel alive and awake. Risk taking behaviour. Sketchy people. Guns 

18.00 - Ordinary mind. Do the dishes. Thanks to Sean for the episode image 

28:51 - Parents, being a scared kid, loss, addiction, therapy, abandonment. It'll be okay in the end though. 

Send a voice msg

Send us ye olde email

• Alain de Botton - The News - A Users Manual 
• The News: Worst Show on the Internet. Let's agree. Emotional reactions. Pretending to be above the News/make useful comments
• Looking for a hit of fear: The Age, The ABC, New York Times, Washington Goddamn Post + coffee
• The Economist: magazine okay, online not so much. Speculations about escalation, nuclear war, the apocalypse. It gives Joe nerves
• Putin is the Devil/Messiah/just a naughty boy/a rational actor. Depends who you ask (don't ask Alex Jones). 
• Read wikipedia instead. I use the app
• News/adrenaline junkies just wanna know reality. Doesn't matter. Real reality is waiting. Take a walk. Bill Hicks tells you how it is re: the News 
• Many smart people don't read the news. And they could tell there wouldn't be a nuclear war. 
• Excitement and possibility = flip side of anxiety and fear. To feel a threat is to feel alive= = riding a bike through traffic on high alert can feel quite life affirming
• It's ok to want to feel alive. If you're not nervous, you're probably not emotionally engaged
• Permission to play cricket. Go the Royal Park Reds, Australia's only socialist cricket team?
• Chores ain't necessarily bores - Alan Watts says you only ever do one dish, so stop hating it, put on nineties hip hop, mate, and enjoy reality, there's kind of nowhere else to go. Doing chores mindfully helps feel okay with life, and feel sane. Clean your environment, clean the self
• Chaitanya, gender bending Hindu mystic from 500 yrs ago - let's abolish caste, class, religion, ethnicity, gender etc 
• The apocalypse is not for 5000 years (no, soz 426,877 years left in Kali Yuga). 
• "Two old men with nuclear buttons? Been there done that" - Vanillatary
• Moral outrage. Joining Twitter mobs back when they were cool. Sorry about that 
• We're in a golden age inside a dark age. Get that into you
• You don't need a rats tail to be a Hari these days
• Religion <-> conspiracy theories
• Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (Gauranga) - Vishnu (Krishna)'s avatar, incarnated as their own female + male energy, + their own servant, at the same time
• Become a Hare Krishna, or Become Nobody like Ram Dass
• Hare Krishnas, boarding school, parents, feeling abandoned 
• Double Asteroid Redirection Test 
• The Precipice, Toby Ord

Musical theme by boy genius Ehsan Gelsi

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host