Does a recovery framework help you move forward, or become the whole story you tell about yourself?

I'm Charles D. Johnston, co-founder of Nekawa. In Podcast EP.4 of our Student Series, DJ and I sit down on our Atlantic rainforest campus in Paraty, Brazil, to talk about 12-step, shame and the abstinence violation effect, or AVE. DJ reflects on being taken to a 12-step meeting at 16, the identity he carried afterward, and what began to change when he stopped running from his own story.

1. What happens after a lapse?
We discuss the all-or-nothing response: "I've crossed the line, so I might as well keep going." The question is what happens next. Can you reach out, face what happened and take a different step without turning one event into your whole identity?

2. Who defines what's in your mind?
We question the labels you inherit and the boundaries they can create. A 12-step path may have a place in your life. That doesn't mean it has to decide who you are or close every other question. DJ describes how shame shaped his experience, and why he began telling a different story about himself.

3. Agency comes with responsibility.
DJ talks about integrating his past, sharing his story and no longer feeling powerless. We explore what it means to be able to respond, to choose, and to support someone without making shame the starting point.

If you've lived this, where do you agree or disagree? Tell us what you would ask DJ. Send this conversation to someone you want to talk with, not someone you want to label.

Watch Podcast EP.4 on the Nekawa YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/AGvkAVBpgFA

This conversation presents personal experiences and viewpoints. AVE is not unique to 12-step, and a lapse does not inevitably lead to sustained recurrence. Research supports AA/Twelve-Step Facilitation for alcohol use disorder, including improved continuous abstinence in studied manualized programs (Hendershot et al., 2011; Kelly et al., 2020).

Two factual clarifications: CDC's May 2025 release estimated 80,391 total overdose deaths in 2024, including 54,743 involving opioids. These are historical provisional figures. The Rat Park studies discussed used oral morphine solutions and housing comparisons, rather than the exact heroin/cocaine experiment described (Hadaway et al., 1979; National Center for Health Statistics, 2025).

Support does not make opioid use safe. Suspected overdose requires emergency help and naloxone when available. Educational discussion and personal experience, not individual medical advice. Nekawa is a wellness education and hospitality program; independent licensed physicians provide medical care.

REFERENCES
Hendershot, C. S., Witkiewitz, K., George, W. H., & Marlatt, G. A. (2011). Relapse prevention for addictive behaviors. Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention, and Policy, 6, Article 17. https://doi.org/10.1186/1747-597X-6-17

Kelly, J. F., Humphreys, K., & Ferri, M. (2020). Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step programs for alcohol use disorder. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, (3), CD012880. https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.CD012880.pub2

Hadaway, P. F., Alexander, B. K., Coambs, R. B., & Beyerstein, B. (1979). The effect of housing and gender on preference for morphine-sucrose solutions in rats. Psychopharmacology, 66(1), 87–91. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00431995

National Center for Health Statistics. (2025, May 14). U.S. overdose deaths decrease almost 27% in 2024. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/releases/20250514.html

DJ spent three days in the Atlantic rainforest near Paraty, Brazil. There was fasting, silence from the usual outside noise, and time alone. There were also books, a guitar, the river, difficult thoughts, and support available. In this conversation, we talk honestly about what he noticed.

At Nekawa, we push back on the idea that recovery means keeping someone constantly occupied, moving them from one activity to the next, or giving them another script to follow. A 12-step framework can be part of someone's story. It does not have to define the whole story. A packed schedule can organize the day; it cannot do the inner work for you. We make room for direct experience, personal responsibility, and time to reflect, alongside appropriate support. What happens when the distractions fall away? What do you reach for? What stories start to surface?

1. FASTING: WHAT COMES UP WHEN THE USUAL COMFORT IS NOT THERE?
DJ describes a difficult third day, the emotions and old beliefs that surfaced, and putting those stories on paper. He also talks about the energy and appreciation he felt when he ate again. This is his account of an experience, including its discomfort, rather than a fasting protocol.

2. SILENCE: PUTTING DOWN THE PHONE AND HEARING YOURSELF AGAIN.
DJ chose to hand in his phone. He was not ordered to do it. Stepping away from messages and everyday outside noise gave him room to look at what he consumes and how he uses his attention. Silence here does not mean that there was no music or conversation. It means making space without the usual stream of distractions.

3. ISOLATION: TIME ALONE, WITH SUPPORT AVAILABLE.
DJ describes stretches alone in the jungle, fear after dark, feeling held by nature, and recovery as returning to himself. We were present to support him; he was alone for periods, not abandoned. The question is whether there is room to meet yourself when every hour is not being filled for you.

We are not here to repeat a familiar recovery script. We want to ask whether there is room to discover something beyond it. DJ's account does not establish a better treatment outcome, but it gives us a real conversation worth having. Watch it and tell us where you agree, where you disagree, and what you would ask DJ.

Nekawa Podcast EP.3 | Student Series
With Charles D. Johnston and DJ.

Chapters
0:00 Welcome to the Student Series
1:12 Three days in the jungle
2:41 Choosing to put the phone away
3:18 Sitting with discomfort
5:05 Coming back to the phone
6:11 Books, music, and time by the river
7:09 Sitting still and watching nature
8:07 Feeling at home with yourself
9:08 Being alone and feeling held by nature
10:23 The simple things that help
11:07 Falling Upward by Richard Rohr
11:42 The jungle after dark
12:19 A conversation about fasting
13:43 Old stories and writing them down
14:45 A new appreciation for food
16:11 Time feels different here
16:56 Watching the sun instead of the clock
17:12 Closing conversation

Book mentioned: Falling Upward by Richard Rohr.
More Nekawa podcasts and resources: https://nekawa.com/resources/
Book a free discovery call: https://nekawa.com/contact/

Nekawa is a wellness education and hospitality program in Paraty, Brazil. Independent licensed physicians provide medical care.

Personal experiences and opinions, not medical advice. This is not a recommendation to fast, change medication, use psychedelics, isolate without support, or deprive yourself of sleep. Ibogaine carries serious cardiac risks and requires qualified medical screening and monitoring. Experiences in this interview do not establish safety or effectiveness; speak with a qualified professional about individual health decisions.

Safety reference: Dickinson, J., McAlpin, J., Wilkins, C., Fitzsimmons, C., Guion, P., Paterson, T., Greene, D., & Chaves, B. R. (2016). Clinical guidelines for ibogaine-assisted detoxification (Version 1.1). https://ibogaineguidelines.com/

Watch the video: https://youtu.be/9HAEBkYLIHk

DJ first tried ibogaine in Mexico in early 2025. He'd spent years in AA and American treatment programs. He was looking for another way forward. What he describes afterward is the part I want us to pay attention to: trying to make sense of a huge experience, largely on his own.

I'm Charles, co-founder of Nekawa. In this Student Series conversation, DJ and I talk about preparation, psychedelic integration, and the life waiting on the other side of treatment.

We start with questions raised by a recent New York Times article about ibogaine care. Then we get into what DJ felt was missing from his first experience, the pressure to rush into treatment, and why I want people to have time to settle before asking anything more of themselves.

We talk about sleep. Discomfort. The habits you bring with you. What happens when you change your environment and still have to live with yourself.

And we get into integration. What does that word actually mean once you've finished talking about it?

DJ is building a business to help people and families understand ibogaine and make informed decisions. He's also reading for hours, something he never thought of himself as doing. That matters to me. Being able to sit down, focus, and get into a book is something you can take home.

I say it toward the end: "Because when you go home, you're going to have to be the one to do it."

That's why I care about giving people space to recognize the value in these things for themselves.

At the time of filming, DJ had spent about a month at Nekawa and had not yet received ibogaine during this stay. He's reflecting on his earlier treatment and his current preparation, not reporting an outcome from a completed Nekawa stay.

Subscribe for more Nekawa Student Series conversations. We're interested in what people are doing now, and what they want to build next.

Host: Charles Johnston | Guest: DJ
Series: Nekawa Student Series
Recorded at Nekawa Ibogaine, Brazil

A medical note: This conversation shares personal experiences and opinions, not medical advice or a promise of results. Ibogaine carries serious cardiac risks (Alper et al., 2016). Medication and withdrawal decisions belong with independent licensed physicians. The discussion of sleep medication is not advice to stop prescribed medication or replace medical assessment with a walk. Nekawa provides wellness education and hospitality; medical care is provided by independent licensed physicians.

Reference: Alper, K., Bai, R., Liu, N., Fowler, S. J., Huang, X.-P., Priori, S. G., & Ruan, Y. (2016). hERG blockade by iboga alkaloids. Cardiovascular Toxicology, 16(1), 14-22. [https://doi.org/10.1007/s12012-015-9311-5](https://doi.org/10.1007/s12012-015-9311-5)

#IbogaineTreatment #PsychedelicIntegration #Nekawa

In the first episode of the Nekawa Teacher Series, Charles D. Johnston sits down with Nekawa co-founder and teacher Tatiana Aya Tupinambá in Paraty, Brazil.

Tatiana reflects on the relationship between our inner lives and the natural world, drawing from her upbringing in Brazil and her years of study and practice. She shares her personal experience of addiction and discusses how psychedelic experiences affected the direction of her life.

The conversation returns to a grounded idea: an experience may open a door, but it cannot live your life for you. Insight becomes meaningful through the choices, habits, and relationships that follow. Tatiana and Charles discuss responsibility, daily practice, and the idea of life itself as a school in which everyone remains a student.

In this episode:

- Why Nekawa was created in the Atlantic Forest near Paraty
- Tatiana's personal relationship with nature
- Addiction and disconnection
- Psychedelic experiences as catalysts rather than complete solutions
- The difference between an experience and the work that follows
- Daily practice, personal responsibility, and integration
- Why Nekawa calls the people in its program students
- Life as an ongoing school

About Tatiana Aya Tupinambá

Tatiana is a Brazilian Indigenous woman of the Tupinambá people, a co-founder and teacher at Nekawa, and the subject of the documentary Curandera. Her work brings together traditional plant knowledge, close attention to nature, and the belief that learning must continue in ordinary life.

About the Nekawa Teacher Series

The Teacher Series introduces the people and ideas behind Nekawa through direct, thoughtful conversations. Follow the Nekawa Podcast for future episodes about nature, recovery, responsibility, and learning how to live with greater awareness.

Links

Watch the episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/gilLL0mxa-g

Learn more about Nekawa: https://nekawa.com

Learn more about Tatiana and Curandera: https://curandera.co

Follow Nekawa on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Nekawa.Ibogaine

Educational note

This episode presents personal experiences and educational discussion. It is not medical advice and does not recommend the use of psychedelics. Ibogaine carries significant medical risks and requires careful medical screening and monitoring by qualified clinicians.

Creators & Guests

• Tatiana Aya Tupinambá - Guest
• Charles D Johnston - Host