Natalie Papier is the designer behind the book, Start with the Art, lead designer on Magnolia Network's Artfully Designed, and the woman who turned Saturday morning estate sales and a house full of agreeable gray into one of the most recognizable design voices in the country. No design degree. No formal training. Just a crumbling Oak Park Victorian, two napping kids, and a paint can.

Natalie talks about growing up watching her dad—a true artist turned contractor—transform a worn-down Victorian by seeing its bones instead of its problems. She explains the philosophy that became her signature: start with a piece of art, pull the colors, and let the room follow. She even asks clients to go into their closets and find the dress that makes them feel like a million bucks. Nine out of ten times, it's a color.

She shares what it was like to move to Charlotte two weeks before COVID, build a new client base through Instagram all over again, and why she keeps saying yes to things she's never done before—Airstreams on marinas, a flat in Lisbon, whatever comes next.

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Amber Guyton is the founder of Blessed Little Bungalow and a designer known for bold color, soulful maximalism, and black art in every space she touches. She grew up in Pineville, South Carolina—a town so small there were no stoplights and her graduating class had 57 people. She had two corporate careers, an MBA, and was climbing the ladder when she bought a house in San Antonio and decorated the entire thing in one week.

Her mom showed up expecting boxes. Instead, she found a finished home—and asked the question that changed everything: "So when are you gonna do this for real?"

Amber talks about being the kid who begged to paint her room lavender, then blue, then Mickey Mouse borders—always making her space her own. She explains how she gave herself 90 days to launch a blog that became a business, why her first client was a nursery she refused to let pay her, and how she paid off $100K in debt by throwing every side hustle dollar at it for 22 months. She shares what soulful maximalism really means (intentionality, not clutter), why she sees every ceiling and corner as an opportunity, and how supporting black artists became a signature of her work.

Now she's expanding into investment properties—dealing with termites, foundations, and roofs—while still doing what she loves most: helping families blend styles and create spaces that feel like home.

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Michel Smith Boyd is a two-time HGTV Rock the Block winner and one of the most recognized designers in the country. He grew up in Thibodaux, Louisiana, a small southern town where he thought his lack of exposure would disqualify him from the life he wanted. Turns out, the architecture he loves, the hospitality that defines his work, and the music that scores every room he designs—it all started right there.

Michel talks about being a little gay kid named Michelle in the deep south who didn't have a word for what made him different, just a feeling of not fitting in. He found refuge in magazines, fashion, and a sixth-grade English teacher named Miss Lagard who made him feel seen. He explains how a trip to the D&D Building in New York merged everything he loved—textiles, architecture, presentation—and finally gave him a name for what he was supposed to do.

He shares the weight of winning Rock the Block and how it changed his client base overnight, why he turned down TV for years before finally saying yes, and the tension between being a public figure and the private, nurturing designer his brand was built on. Michel wraps with where he is now: no longer chasing traditional markers of success, but feeling empowered to define what's next for himself—without needing anyone's approval.

His daily job? To become more of himself.

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Mandy Kellogg Rye is the founder of Waiting on Martha, a brand she started while drinking wine and watching a movie. She loved Martha Stewart, blogs were just becoming a thing, and she thought: I can do that. Three months later, Martha Stewart invited her to New York. Pottery Barn reached out. Things snowballed fast—because for Mandy, nothing stays small.

Mandy talks about going to work with her dad at the wastewater treatment plant when she was five, why her parents never told her no or that a mistake was a bad thing, and the moment crossing a bridge to college when her dad told her: this is your chance—don't come back. She explains why she worked her corporate sales job for four more years while building the blog, why authenticity is the key to selling anything, and why she won't let the women on her team say sorry.

She shares the brutal honesty of the last two years—almost quitting, calling her landlord ready to break a 10-year lease, not paying herself so her team gets paid. But she took a week, didn't make a rash decision, and stayed. Now she's reenergized. Because as she puts it: pressure is a privilege.

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Matt Briggs is the CEO of Four Hands, one of the hottest brands in the furniture industry. He grew up in South Africa without TV until he was nine, went to boarding school at 12, and came to America through a Rotary exchange expecting California—and got Peoria, Illinois instead. A ski trip to Colorado changed everything. He fell in love with skiing, took a job as a photographer on the mountain, and started seeing opportunity where others saw transactions.

Matt shares how he went from selling $9 Mexican pots for $89 to flying to Austin to buy antique Indian trunks from a guy named Brett who had just started a little company called Four Hands. He explains the pivot from middleman to design house—a Herculean shift that happened because the writing was on the wall: you can't control your destiny buying from creative people and selling to retailers while both sides squeeze you.

He talks about two miserably failed attempts at upholstery because he made the mistake of doing what the market was doing instead of staying authentic. The moment Four Hands went back to their DNA—in stock, their aesthetic, their way—it worked. He wraps with why market still matters ("it's like the exam at the end of the semester"), why he acquires tech companies and art printers instead of competitors, and why he still believes you can't fight the human condition.

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Phoenix Grey is the designer behind Design Daddy, a social media phenomenon that started when his partner filmed him making a bed. That video got 6 million views in less than a week. Phoenix never wanted to be on camera—he's actually a very private guy—but his partner saw something he didn't and pushed him to share his brain with the world.

Phoenix talks about walking into any space and immediately knowing what's wrong, why his friends hate when he comes over, and how he went from commercial restaurant design to residential work because clients started hiring him for his specific style rather than fighting him on every idea. He explains why most designers gatekeep their secrets while he does the opposite—giving people the why behind every decision so they can actually understand and explain their own spaces.

He shares why hanging pots are on his chopping block, how his partner came up with the name Design Daddy at the kitchen table, and his philosophy that everyone deserves to enjoy their home regardless of budget. Phoenix wraps with how he balances the full-time job of social media with actual client work: boundaries, batch filming, a great team, and 4:30 AM gym sessions before anyone else shows up.

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Satya Tiwari is the CEO of Surya, Inc., which now includes Mitchell Gold, Bob Williams, Global Views, and Surya—serving designers across the globe. His father started the business in a small village in India focusing on rugs. In 1986, his dad made a bold move to open a U.S. office when almost no Indian companies were doing it. Satya joined in 2004 and became an acquisition machine, growing the company through strategic purchases and a relentless focus on the long game.

He explains why curiosity is life and assumption is death, why no one gets penalized for mistakes at Surya (experimentation is the business model), and how his grandmother—who raised his father in a patriarchal village with nothing—taught him to do more with less. Satya wraps with his vision for the next decade: becoming part of every line item on a designer's project by earning it through service, reliability, and unique ideas.

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Rasheeda Gray is the founder of Gray Space Interiors, and her superpower is operating with both hemispheres of her brain at full capacity. She spent 15 years in marketing for insurance and financial services, rising to Assistant VP at Chubb Insurance. When she launched her design firm, she didn't quit her day job—she worked three jobs simultaneously for three and a half years: corporate 9-5, mom and wife from 5-9, and building Gray Space from 9 PM to 2 AM.

Rasheeda shares how she turned a stuffed animal into a designer book bag at 12, why she suppressed her creative side early on because "you can't make a living being creative," and how her corporate background became her competitive advantage. She talks about her detailed questionnaire that converts emotions into design choices and how her husband became a licensed general contractor during COVID so she could stop relying on unreliable contractors.

She explains how a DM to designer Cheryl Luckett and her first High Point Market in 2017 shifted her entire business model toward profitability, and wraps with her vision for the next decade: product licensing, television, and evolving Gray Space into a brand, not just a design firm.

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They share how losing their jobs in 2008 left them with nothing but 80 goats and a Google search for "what can we make with goat milk?" That desperate moment became the foundation of a company built on an unusual principle: kindness as a core ingredient. When a major retail order threatened to overwhelm them, their neighbors showed up to help wrap thousands of bars of soap—then bought product to take home.

Brent and Josh talk about the power of aiming high (writing Martha Stewart in federal prison worked), reframing goals (they turned The Amazing Race into a branding opportunity and won anyway), and why their biggest collaborations came from simply wanting to help others succeed first.

Their new book, Goat Wisdom, argues that the secret to building a greatest-of-all-time business isn't the latest YouTube hack—it's the proverbs your grandparents knew. Make hay while the sun shines. Love thy neighbor. Work hard, never quit, help your neighbor.

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Tamara Day is the designer and host of Bargain Mansion, author of Laid-Back Lux, and the woman who proved that luxury doesn't require an excess of cash—it requires vision. She didn't go to design school. What she had was a grandmother who taught her to create without fear, three babies during the Great Recession, and a $75 secretary she almost didn't buy.

Tamara talks about the moment in 2008 when her husband's income dropped 90% and estate sales became survival. She'd take her three sons with a dollar each, teaching them to negotiate, then paint furniture in the driveway while they rode bikes. When she painted her kitchen white with open shelving, every contractor told her it was stupid. Five years later, Joanna Gaines told the world everybody wants it.

She shares how guerrilla marketing with Kinko's flyers brought a thousand people through her house twice a year, how a casting director found her through her brother who needed lumber cut, and why budget isn't a limitation—it's her secret sauce.

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 Sonnet 4.5

Rob Spilman Jr. is the CEO, Chairman, and President of Bassett Furniture, a 122-year-old American company that started as a sawmill in rural Virginia and survived the Great Depression, World War II, globalization, and the near-total collapse of domestic furniture manufacturing. His great-grandfather founded it in 1902. His grandfather ran it for decades. And when Rob took over in the late '90s, he had to close nearly every factory and let go of 10,000 people to keep the company alive.

Rob talks about growing up in a company town where his grandfather's funeral shut down the schools, working in a dimension mill in Arkansas at 14, and the stubbornness that almost kept him from joining the family business. But the hardest part came when he and his cousin Jeff went to China in the early '90s and saw what was coming—a tsunami of overseas production that would wipe out the American furniture industry as they knew it.

He explains the impossible decision to pivot into retail, a move his father called crazy, and how they opened stores while simultaneously closing factories. It was messy, terrifying, and necessary. Rob stood in front of those workers time after time, not knowing if he was making the right call, just trusting that culture and balance sheet strength could carry them through what strategy alone couldn't predict.

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Mikel Welch is a designer, TV personality, and design expert on the Drew Barrymore Show who built his career on pure instinct, relentless faith, and the willingness to work for free. He moved to New York with $500, a miniature schnauzer, and a borrowed couch—then took overnight shifts at the Container Store while posting free design services on Craigslist just to build a portfolio.

Mikel talks about growing up in Detroit building Lego cities as a kid, the 40-minute Crate & Barrel detour that changed his life, and how he learned the business by redesigning green rooms for Michelle Obama and Halle Berry with furniture he'd return the next day.

Mikel opens up about imposter syndrome, not being classically trained, and learning that his gift for envisioning spaces isn't something you can teach—it's just in him. He shares the lesson that changed everything: it can't just be about the money. If you're only chasing a paycheck, it'll never work. It has to be about what you give back.

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Roger Thomas is the legendary designer behind Bellagio, Wynn, and Encore—spaces that redefined luxury in America. For 40 years, he partnered exclusively with Steve and Elaine Wynn to create resort destinations that feel less like hotels and more like living inside the best movie of your life. Roger calls his approach EVOC architecture—evocative architecture—where every design decision starts with a question: How will this make the guest feel?

Roger talks about inventing an entirely new design vocabulary because nothing in the marketplace could be used if it had been seen before. He explains how he and his team would walk into design meetings asking: How do we create drama? Romance? Surprise? Joy? And then work backwards from emotion to materiality, using female curves for romance, high contrast for drama, and Matisse's palette for pure joy.

But the most powerful part of Roger's story isn't about color theory or custom chandeliers. It's about authenticity. Roger opens up about coming out in his late thirties, quitting drinking, and realizing that surviving his greatest fear gave him the courage to take creative risks he'd never taken before. When he stopped hiding who he was, he stopped playing it safe in his work. That's when the real genius emerged.

Roger wraps with his famous sketchbooks—decades of observations, color combinations, and inventions that he draws back on when tasked with the impossible. And he shares what's next: helping build the Las Vegas Museum of Art, a project 45 years in the making.

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Doug Cofiell had that moment sitting in a college marketing class. He looked around at all the corporate politics in the case studies and thought: this is not me. That clarity led him to take over his dad's rep agency, Ivy Stone, and turn it into one of the most respected firms in the gift and home industry through 18 acquisitions over two decades.

Doug talks about starting out with no GPS and no cell phone, building presence in Ohio from scratch with just a map, and how hiring someone better at selling than he was became his template for growth. The turning point came through diner meetings with Ted Goldberg from Drummers Inc.—what started as a potential acquisition became a merger of equals when they realized their businesses were perfectly complementary.

Doug explains why most mergers in this industry fail and why his didn't, and how the infrastructure they built specifically for acquisitions became their competitive advantage. He wraps with his philosophy on technology: partner with the best, integrate everything, but never forget that the best orders still happen in person.

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Thank you for listening and for being part of the Market Makers community. Happy holidays, and here's to 2026!

Born in Israel to Chinese-Vietnamese parents, Peti grew up expressing herself through music as an opera singer and pianist. After her father's passing when she was 17, she spent ten years traveling the world—living as an expat in Thailand for seven years—searching for herself and her creative voice. Design eventually found her, and she discovered that all those wandering years had been preparing her for something greater.

In this conversation, Peti opens up about her philosophy that design is about being thoughtful and considerate, and why she sees herself as a director helping clients write their own stories. Jon and Peti explore the importance of craftsmanship in an AI-driven world, her 2023 Rising Star award from her alma mater, and her dreams of designing a boutique hotel that celebrates the nuances that make experiences truly memorable.

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Starting with a pharmaceutical sales career that felt secure but unfulfilling, Megan discovered her design talent organically, simply by designing her first home and sharing updates on social media with her network. When friends started asking for help, she had an aha-moment: could this be a real business? Six months after making it official on January 1st, 2018, she had launched both a thriving design practice and an e-commerce shop, met her future husband Hugh, hired her first employees, and moved into office space—all while learning the business in real time.

In this conversation, Megan opens up about conquering the fear of leaving corporate security, the power of knowing your superpower and letting others handle everything else, and why 80% of great design work is actually about relationships. Jon and Megan explore her distinct light, bright, modern coastal aesthetic, her dream project in the Bahamas that changed how she thinks about client selection, and "the mod pod"—the home she renovated with Hugh that beautifully blends both their styles and his collected trinkets.

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Back in 2009, Alaina was struggling to get her foot in the door in the media industry, so she opened her laptop and started a blog. Three years later, she and her co-founder launched The Everygirl, an online magazine built to answer one question: How does the every girl who has the vision, work ethic, and dream get ahead if she doesn't know the right person?

Today, The Everygirl Media Group reaches over 2 million monthly readers, employs 33 full-time staff, and has grown into a seven-figure business. Alaina shares the journey from Googling "what is an RFP?" when Coach first reached out, to generating 10+ million views on their holiday gift guides, to building a team that's mostly stayed for over a decade.

You'll hear about the paid partnership that taught them to only work with brands they'd feature organically (even when they needed the revenue), the networking dinner that accidentally unlocked a major revenue stream, and why the future of digital media is about bringing people together in real life.

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Host Jon Pertchik sends good vibes to all the business owners navigating the busiest week of the year - Black Friday, Small Business Saturday, and Cyber Monday all happening at once. Here's hoping you're making the most of the rush while finding a little time to rest.

We'll be back next week with a brand new episode in our Scale Up mini-series featuring Alaina Kaz, co-founder of The Everygirl Media Group. In this sneak peek, Alaina shares how blogging became her answer to breaking into industries where "it's all about who you know" - and how that led to building an online magazine answering one question: "How does the every girl who has the vision, the work ethic, and the dream get ahead if she doesn't know the right person?"

Follow The Market Makers wherever you get your podcasts, and we'll see you next week.

Launching her business in her sunroom in 1997, she expanded one room at a time before growing into one of High Point’s most respected design leaders. Along the way, she navigated economic crises, personal loss, and industry shifts - always guided by the belief that results matter, but people matter more.

In this conversation, Christi opens up about her introverted leadership style, her philosophy of meaningful connection over shallow networking, and her Mirror Method approach: designing spaces that authentically reflect the people who live and work in them. Jon and Christi also explore her community-building work through High Point Discovered, and her trailblazing role as the first interior designer to chair the High Point Market Authority.

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Sabrina’s connection to home started early, during a period of financial struggle when creating beauty on a budget became both a necessity and refuge. That instinct later became her signature - making a name for herself as a pioneer of, budget-friendly design and reminding the
world that style isn’t defined by a price tag.

With no formal training and no industry connections, she willed her way onto television, preparing for opportunities before they existed and learning in real time on screen. Today, she continues to curate her dreams by writing books, expanding into product design, and exploring
the intersection of home, mindset, and wellbeing.

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from the people shaping how we live, work, and gather.

From humble beginnings in Black Eagle, Montana, Bob went on to build one of the largest physical market platforms in the world. He shares how he steered companies through foreclosures and financial crises, turned setbacks into lessons, and brought together Las Vegas
and High Point to form what became ANDMORE.

Bob also opens up about the leadership principles that guided him through it all: from the “never be a victim” mindset that helped him recover from being fired, to the importance of moral grounding, culture, and teamwork in scaling a business. He breaks down what private equity really values, why physical markets continue to thrive, and what true succession in business looks like.

It’s an inside look at what it takes to build, scale, and sustain a long-lasting business and career.

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Anita’s story is truly one of transformation. From 20 years in the therapy room to becoming one of today’s most recognizable design voices, Anita shares how her background in psychology and neuroscience shapes her approach to design. From how small changes in color, symmetry, and light can shift our mood and mindset, to how her method is about helping her clients find the “why” before ever choosing a single paint color.

Together, they trace her journey from the before, of a life in therapy, through her own renovation of redefining her creative purpose, to the after - a thriving design career built on wellbeing, intuition, and balance.

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In this first episode, host Jon Pertchik, CEO of ANDMORE, sits down with TV icon and renowned interior and product designer, Thom Filicia.  Thom shares how a cold call landed him his first job at the design firm Parish-Hadley, how getting stuck in an elevator landed him his big TV break as a cast member on the OG Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, and how he uses markets today to stay inspired and connected to what’s new in design.

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The Market Makers is a new weekly podcast from ANDMORE, hosted by CEO Jon Pertchik. Each episode pulls back the curtain on the people shaping the worlds of design, furniture, home, and lifestyle, exploring how they built their brands, found their unique style, and how markets and community are central to their work. 

You’ll hear how industry icons like Thom Filicia got his big break, how designer Anita Yokota swapped the therapy office for the design studio, and how heritage leaders like Robert H. Spilman Jr. of Bassett Furniture continue to build a lasting brand.

Make sure you’re following The Market Makers for more stories of transformation from the people shaping how we live, work, and gather.