Mike and his team partnered with Meta and Universal Pictures to bring Blumhouse Enhanced Cinema horror films — The Black Phone and M3GAN — into an entirely new immersive format built for the Meta Quest headset. But this isn't VR gaming. It's a new medium for film.

Together, Steve and Mike unpack the history of technological inflexion points in filmmaking from the Edison kinetoscope to Dolby surround sound and why we may be at the most significant one yet. They discuss what "spatial" actually means for a viewer, how Nexus built a "visual sound design" layer on top of existing films, and what it's like to watch a horror movie inside a basement that maps to your actual room.

From the future of movie theatres and back-catalogue IP, to the possibility of non-linear storytelling and filmmaking made from scratch for spatial platforms, this conversation is a deep dive into where cinema is heading and why the audience might be more ready than we think.

If you're curious about immersive experiences, the future of entertainment, XR technology, experience design, or the intersection of AI and storytelling, this episode is essential listening.

00:00 Introduction and pivotal moment in filmmaking.

01:00 A brief history of cinema tech - From kinetoscopes to iPhones — how technology has always driven storytelling.

03:52 What is spatial cinema? - Mike defines spatial viewing and explains the jaw-dropping scale of an in-headset screen.

07:00 Your room becomes the film - How the Quest maps your space and overlays the world of the movie into it.

08:30 Beyond film — where else does this go? - Sports broadcasting, live events, education — the boundless applications of spatial tech.

12:00 The pitch — getting it signed off - The creative and technical complexity of convincing Meta and Universal to back this.

15:30 Inventing a new language - Creating definitions, testing what works, and discovering "visual sound design."

20:00 The viewer experience - What it actually feels and looks like to watch a film in spatial, inside the app.

21:30 The Black Phone & M3GAN - Why horror was the genre of choice and how two very different films were transformed.

24:45 Scaling the format - The tools Nexus built to productise the 2D-to-spatial conversion pipeline.

27:30 What does this mean for movie theatres? - Complementary, not competitive — why cinema isn't going anywhere.

29:10 New films, new possibilities - What happens when a filmmaker builds from scratch for spatial — and how distribution could work.

35:00 Parallel worlds — immersive art & experience design - Frameless, Marshmallow Laser Feast, how tech is opening new creative windows.

37:00 Mike's journey and what drives him - From painting at RISD to installations in Manhattan to the frontier of spatial filmmaking.

41:30 The "Jazz Singer" moment - What the tipping point looks like — and why we're just waiting for it to arrive.

Nexus Studios | The Experience Designers Podcast | Mike Anderson Bio

Mike Anderson, Director, Nexus Studios

Mike Anderson is an award-winning director and animator who brings a mastery of technology and craft to create work often with a subtly absurd or unsettling edge. As a versatile storyteller, he moves effortlessly between aesthetics and techniques, from original
series like Good Morning, Pickles! (FXX) and Hot Future (Adult Swim) to music videos for Steve Aoki and Ashnikko, seamlessly blending digital gaming visuals, motion capture, or traditional animation.

Mike served as Creative Lead for Blumhouse Enhanced Cinema, guiding the project to create a deeply immersive and engaging experience for audiences. A director in his own right, he applied his narrative insight to interpret and amplify the original director’s intent. Having led creative work for top brands including Apple, Meta, and major IP from Amazon Prime, NBCUniversal, and the NBA, he brings a sharp understanding of storytelling across formats. An avid Quest cinema viewer, he has long envisioned ways to spatialize film, ensuring the experience fully leverages the medium’s emotional and narrative potential.

@nexusstories
@mikeanderson0101
https://nexusstudios.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeanderson0101/

Episode Chapters

0:00 – The Atomic Unit of Experience: Presence: Exploring how being fully present with others forms the foundation of all immersive design.

8:50 – Defining Immersion: The Five Pillars: Introducing the Oracle of Immersion as a framework for building multi-sensory and participatory worlds.

16:35 – Designing for Feeling and Impact: Why starting with the desired emotional "peak" is essential for both creative and business success.

19:10 – Navigating the Transformation Economy: How experiences are moving beyond mere entertainment toward deep, meaningful personal shifts.

23:43 – Thinking Outside the Booth: Brand Immersion: Reimagining trade shows and retail spaces by replacing functional design with lived storytelling.

31:35 – The "Yes, And" of Collaborative Growth: How theatrical improv skills and adaptability can unlock innovation within corporate cultures.

Frances biography

Frances Vieras Blanc is a creative director and immersive strategist with over 30 years of experience in entertainment. Founder of Eat the Cake Studio, an immersive entertainment studio based in France, she crafts and curates immersive experiences—from bold brand activations to original narrative worlds—helping audiences connect deeply while making brands impossible to ignore.

A recognized leader in the immersive space, Frances is a founding member of the World Experience Organization (WXO) and its Global Experience Council, a contributing alumna of The College of Extraordinary Experiences, and co-founder of JeDI Immersive, a non-profit advancing the immersive industry in France, and Les Journées de l’Immersif, France’s largest immersive industry gathering.

Rooted in a lifelong love of storytelling—spanning stage, film, screenwriting, and video games—she brings human-centered stories to life, transforming messages into emotions and brands into living worlds. Her mission: to turn the ordinary into the extraordinary through emotion, story, and creative impact.

Connect
https://www.linkedin.com/in/francesvierasblanc-immersive-entertainment/

They discuss the strategic value of pop-up stores as experimental tools to test location and product novelty, and the need to blend high-tech with a high-touch human connection. It's a thoughtful, deep dive for experience makers and leaders into how purposeful design and local authenticity can create meaningful, destination-worthy retail experiences that resonate on a cultural and social level.

#RetailInnovation #StoryLiving #TheExperienceDesigners #ExperienceDesign #HumanCentredDesign

Episode Chapters

0:00 – Reimagining the Purpose of Physical Retail:
Exploring why customers leave the house for meaningful destinations rather than just basic transactions.

5:20 – Beyond the Wow Factor: Utilitarian vs. Holistic Design: 
Understanding the balance between functional, grab-and-go convenience and immersive, time-stretching experiences.

11:52 – From Storytelling to Story Living: 
How brands provide authentic proof of their heritage and "know-how" through museums and interactive flagships.

26:00 – Pop-ups as a Strategic Tool for Experimentation: 
Ghalia shares insights from her PhD on using ephemeral spaces to test locations, products, and customer reactions.

40:47 – Human-Centric Design and Holistic Management: 
Breaking down internal silos to integrate retail design into the heart of the customer journey.

49:40 – The Future of Retail: Social and Cultural Commerce:
Looking toward 2025, the next era of commerce must prioritise human connection over mere profit.

Ghalia's bio

Ghalia is a multifaceted retail expert whose work spans consultancy, insight curation, speaking, authorship, and podcast hosting. She began her career in the fashion industry in 2005 and has since collaborated closely with numerous fashion brands at both retail and management levels. Her expertise lies in ephemeral retail formats, the creation of engaging physical store atmospheres, and the analysis of consumer behavior within omnichannel environments.

At a strategic level, Ghalia supports brands through transformation processes and the evolution of their development strategies. Operationally, she contributes to procedure design, training manual development, and team training programs.

She holds a PhD from École Supérieure des Affaires in Lebanon, a Master’s degree from the London College of Fashion, and a BA (Hons) from Notre Dame University. Ghalia teaches marketing and retail internationally and is a frequent speaker at leading retail conferences, sharing insights that help shape the future of retail.

Connect with Ghalia
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ghaliaboustani/

Credits
Venue - Centquatre-Paris, 5 rue Curial - 75019 Paris www.104.fr
Francois Arrivae from IO Studio -  A creative technology laboratory specializing in immersive experiences

Links to Francois
https://www.linkedin.com/in/fran%C3%A7ois-arrive/
https://io-stud.io

Creative Director Neil Connolly at Immersive Experience reveals what it really takes to turn a hit TV show into a living, breathing world, from designing a game with 475 possible outcomes, to building a four-storey immersive venue in just four months.

This episode explores how the live experience extends the Traitors universe, how emotion and tension are designed into every moment, and why the audience always comes first. Whether you’re a fan of the show or fascinated by immersive experiences, this gives you a whole new appreciation of what’s really going on behind the roundtable.

00:00 – Welcome to The Traitors Live | What this experience is and why it’s unlike anything else

04:00 – From TV Show to Living World | How the Traitors universe was extended, not copied

10:00 – Designing the Game & the Tension | Turning the TV format into a live, emotional experience

18:30 – 475 Possible Outcomes | Why no two games are ever the same

25:00 – Inside the Machine | The building, technology, and operational scale behind the scenes

46:30 – Emotion First, Business Second (But Both Matter) | Why audience feeling, design, and commercial reality must work together

Immersive Everywhere Company Bio

An award-winning live entertainment producer on a mission to transform the world’s biggest entertainment brands into extraordinary immersive experiences. They specialise in bringing storytelling to life through interactive, play-based theatrical events that allow audiences to step directly into the worlds they love. The company has produced critically acclaimed experiences, including Doctor Who: Time Fracture, Peaky Blinders: The Rise, and The Great Gatsby — one of the longest-running immersive shows in the world. 

Immersive Everywhere is behind The Traitors: Live Experience in London’s West End, a fully playable adaptation of the hit TV series created under licence from All3Media International. The company’s vertically integrated model spans creative development, production, ticketing, marketing, and operations, enabling cohesive execution of complex, large-scale experiences that blur the line between spectator and participant.

More information - https://www.immersiveeverywhere.com

Neil Connolly - Guest & Creative Director

Creative Director at Immersive Everywhere and the visionary behind some of the company’s most ambitious IP-based experiences. With a prolific career in immersive design, Neil has led creative work on live attractions such as The Crystal Maze Live, The Tomb Raider Live Experience, and other major branded events. 

In his work, Neil focuses on extending beloved universes into physical, interactive experiences — always with the audience front of mind. His role on The Traitors: Live Experience involved shaping a dynamic, player-driven adventure that honours the essence of the TV format while adding depth, narrative, and emotional engagement for participants.

Connect with Neil
https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-connolly-499054110/

In this episode, theatre director and experience designer Donnacadh O’Briain shares the story of a bold leadership programme that replaced slides, frameworks, and role-play with a fully immersive live theatre experience. Set inside a 1930s dockyard, leaders became participants in an unfolding story forced to navigate complex conversations, power dynamics, trust, and decision-making in real time.

Together, Steve and Donnacadh explore why theatre creates deeper learning, how immersion accelerates behavioural change, and what organisations can learn from rehearsal rooms about leadership, presence, and human connection.

Chapters
00:00 – From Theatre to Leadership Learning
07:10 – Why Traditional Leadership Training Falls Short
14:30 – Inside the Live Theatre Leadership Experiment
24:40 – Freezing Time: Learning Through Real Decisions
34:50 – The Impact on Leaders and Organisational Culture
44:10 – What Theatre Teaches Us About Leading Humans
51:00 – The Future of Experiential Leadership Development

Bio:
Donnacadh is an Olivier and Offie Award-winning Director, Experience Designer and Story Architect specialising in live theatre, immersive experiences and experiential learning. He is a cross-industry expert in story and narrative. His wide-ranging career has seen him working on everything from musicals, Shakespeare, West End comedies, and large-scale immersive LBE's, to consulting on story and branding and creating innovative learning projects for major companies in the US and Europe.

Recent clients have ranged from entertainment IP giants to Fortune 500 finance and tech companies and Hollywood production houses. He is a TEDx speaker, has given lectures and mentored at institutions such as Cambridge University & RADA, and spent a year as an Associate Fellow of Creativity at Warwick University.

Connect with Donnacadh
https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnacadh-o-briain-35788837/

Bringing together coders, poets, chemists, ventriloquists, brands and institutions, MLF collaborates across disciplines to explore new cultural forms, question our relationship with the world, and leave a characteristically playful trail as they move through the cosmos.

They create stories that untangle, entangle and flavour reality, blurring the boundaries between art, immersive experiences, XR and film.

Their work lives in public spaces, galleries, museums, parks, nature reserves and the metaverse. Everything they produce is grounded in research and designed to carve out space for people to expose, explore and expand their relationship with the living world.

MLF has exhibited internationally at institutions including ACMI, Aviva Studios, the Barbican Centre, DDB Seoul, Fundación Telefónica, Museum of the Future, Phi Centre, Royal Botanical Gardens Kew, Sundance Film Festival and SXSW.

Their work has been featured in publications such as The Guardian, New Scientist, Wired, The Independent, Creative Review, The Times and more.

Website: https://marshmallowlaserfeast.com

Barnaby Steel bio

Barnaby Steel is an artist and creative director of London-based experiential art collective Marshmallow Laser Feast. His practice centres on the senses; enticing audiences into states of expanded perception, a space where the boundaries between bodies blur. His work is deeply rooted in scientific observation as a window to look through and beyond our own experience.

Connect with Barney: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barneysteel/

Ben shares how those early subcultures. DIY, community-led, rebellious, and embodied shaped his worldview and eventually his career, leading experiential work for global brands. But the real energy of this episode lies in his current mission: "Using experience design to shift behaviour, mindset, and, ultimately, our relationship with the planet"

We explore how immersive experiences can move people beyond information and into transformation, not just thinking differently, but being different. Ben breaks down concepts like aesthetic vs. extractive attention, embodied cognition, ritual, liminality, and how the “before and after” of an experience is often more important than the moment itself.

Most importantly, he argues that experiential design might be one of the most powerful tools we have to communicate climate realities in a way people can actually absorb, feel, and act on.

If you care about the future of human connection, creativity, or the planet, this conversation will light you up.

Chapters

00:00 – Meeting Ben Robinson & Setting the Scene - Why his world begins in subculture, community, and embodied experiences.

02:00 – Liverpool, Skateboarding & The Roots of Flow - How Ben’s early life shaped his philosophy of movement, cadence and design.

06:45 – Clubbing, Communitas & Designing Collective Energy - The lessons nightlife teaches about pacing, emotion and immersion.

10:50 – From Serendipity to a Career in Experience Design - Ben’s path from DIY culture into global experiential work.

14:25 – When Experiences Create Real-World Impact - The Deutsche Telekom example and why “proving value in the real world” matters.

15:55 – The Experiential Boom & The Battle for Attention - Why experiential is exploding and why attention has become the new currency.

23:10 – Can Experiences Change Our Relationship With the Planet? - The potential for experiential to shift mindsets, behaviour and being.

29:25 – Climate Communication, Immersion & Ontological Change - Why climate facts fail and how immersive experiences reach deeper parts of us.

37:50 – Ritual, Memory & Designing for Transformation - What makes an experience meaningful, not just memorable.

50:15 – The Future of Experiential: From Entertainment to Evolution - Ben’s research, liminality, and the role designers play in shaping future mindsets.

Ben Robinson bio

Award-winning Agency Founder, Experience Designer and Academic Researcher. Growing up in Liverpool during the late 80’s and early 90’s Ben’s life was shaped by two things: skateboarding and clubbing. Experiences that shaped not just what he did, but how he saw the world, and who he was, proving that consciousness is not just embedded (a function of what we think), but embodied (shaped by how we feel), enacted (what we are doing) and extended (and the environment we are in).

Whilst finishing a Master’s Degree in Entrepreneurship, Ben started working at KLP Entertainment in London. Alongside seminal agencies like Cake, Slice and Exposure, KLP created what we now know as Experiential marketing and was where the likes of V-Festival,
T in the Park and Creamfields were born. From KLP Ben moved onto TBWA where he co-created GT Academy and Nissan Sports Adventure.

After a number of years as Creative Director at PR agency Freuds, Ben went on to found Proud Robinson and Partners (PRP) an award winning Culture led Creative Practice and Experiential Agency working for the likes Oracle Redbull Racing, General Motors, Diageo, EY, Deutsche Telekom and Samsung. 2 years ago Ben started a PhD in Design and Informatics at the University of Sussex in an effort to better understand exactly how Immersive experiences might be used to promote more positive pluralistic futures.

Connect
Ben@proud-robinson.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-robinson-630b2326/

Located in Marble Arch, FRAMELESS is redefining the immersive art experience as the largest permanent multi-sensory venue in the UK. Across four galleries, visitors step inside reimagined works of some of the world’s greatest artists—where art breaks free from the frame and connects directly to our senses.

From accessibility and sensory design to the choreography of sound, light, and movement, this episode explores how immersive storytelling turns art into an experience that moves both heart and mind.

Website
www.frameless.com

Connect with Rosie
www.linkedin.com/in/rosie-oconnor/

In this episode, food anthropologist Caroline Hobkinson invites us into her London kitchen to explore the connection between taste, sound, and human emotion. Through a live sensory experiment, she reveals how our brains respond to flavor, sound, and ritual and why modern life has numbed our ability to truly feel. From seaweed that “sings,” to the psychology of coffee rituals and the intimacy of blindfolded dining, this conversation reawakens our senses and reframes how we connect with food, with others, and with ourselves.

00:00 – Welcome to Caroline’s Kitchen

02:00 – What Is a Food Anthropologist?

06:00 – The Ritual of Coffee: Modern Communion

09:30 – Why Taste Is the Most Intimate Sense

12:00 – The Seaweed Experiment: Eating With Sound

18:00 – The Science Behind It: What the Brain Does

24:00 – Blindfolded Bananas & the Art of Surrender

33:00 – Designing for the Senses: Lessons for Brands and Experience Creators

41:00 – The Smell of Memory

44:00 – Bringing Mindfulness to Everyday Eating

46:00 – Closing Reflections: Reawakening the Senses

Caroline's bio

Immersive Experience Director - MultiSensory FoodArtist – Food Anthropologist investigating behaviour, ritual and interrelationships of sensory modalities Born in Cologne in 1979, trained at Central Saint Martin’s where she gained a degree in Fine Art and SOAS where she earned a master’s degree in Anthropology, she has been creating events and food installations, in galleries, museums and public spaces worldwide.

She has published and co-authored numerous research and academic papers on the neuroscientific workings of eating behaviour and conducted anthropological qualitative research into food and drink habits and rituals. She is a fellow of the Royal Anthropological Institute.

Operating within the intersections of technology, food and the senses, Caroline has been giving numerous interactive talks and lectures that re
imagine people‘s food rituals. Her work and research has appeared in numerous publications and she has collaborated on events for Unilever, Disney, Barilla, Magnum, Selfridges, Bang & Olufsen, Kensington Palace and Pink Lady Apples.

Contact

www.carolinehobkinson.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-hobkinson-creative-director/

00:00 — Opening: The Magic of Live Events
01:42 — Understanding Anfield's Unique Atmosphere
04:19 — Researching Local Football Culture
05:21 — The Challenges of Ethnographic Research
08:19 — Exploring Fan Demographics
11:36 — The Role of Rituals in Atmosphere
14:19 — Designing Experiences at Anfield
16:20 — The Impact of "You'll Never Walk Alone"
18:51 — Community Identity and Solidarity
22:46 — Designing Emotionally Engaging Experiences
24:34 — The Four-Step Ritual Design Process
31:27 — Thinking Beyond Football: Broader Applications
36:47 — Insights from Berlin Nightclubs
41:42 — The Paradox of Fitting In and Standing Out
48:39 — The Importance of Exclusion in Experience Design
51:45 — Final Thoughts on Designing Rituals

Bio & links

Tim Hill is an Associate Professor of Marketing at the University of Bath and Director of Studies for the BSc Business program. His research explores the edges of consumer culture, from hardcore football fandom to Berlin’s exclusive techno scene, uncovering what these fringe worlds reveal about belonging, identity, and community. Tim’s work has been published in leading journals, and he’s also the co-author of The Dark Side of Marketing Communication and an Associate Editor at the Journal of Marketing Management.

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-hill-99425b378/

Episode Chapters:
0:00 – Oomph: Energy Meets Delivery
5:00 – Positive Energy & Early Influences
9:00 – Midlife, Normality & Humour
14:30 – Business Travel Tales
18:00 – Leadership Depth in a Changing World
23:00 – Strategy, Agility & Speed of Execution
28:30 – Cutting Through Noise & Creating Space to Lead
38:30 – Communication, Energy & Authenticity
43:00 – The Future of Leadership & Generational Shifts
46:30 – Gratitude & Closing Reflections

Bio and Links
Sally Earnshaw, the Chief Oompher, is a leadership and organisational culture expert with over 20 years' experience. Sally’s insights on the importance of clarity, how to get everyone aligned and engaged to drive execution have helped hundreds oforganisations build a high-performance culture.
Sally emphasises that "your strategy is worth nothing if you can’t communicate". Effective communication in leadership fosters resilience, boosts productivity, and enhances overall performance. 
Sally is known for her ability to bring out the best in people, using practical, impactful leadership tools that deliver immediate results. 
Sally is a TEDx speaker, a published author and top tier leadership facilitator and coach.

www.linkedin.com/in/sally-earnshaw-oomph
www.oomph.life

Episode Chapters
0:00 – Early Influences & Discovering Music
5:00 – Psychology, Rhythm & Flow States
12:00 – Active vs. Passive Listening
18:00 – Sound Design in Hospitality & Workplaces
27:00 – Business Lessons from Open Ear
34:00 – From DJing to Sound Therapy
45:00 – Redefining Music as Function, Not Just Entertainment
53:00 – Swell Studio & Nature-Based Soundscapes
59:00 – Sound, Psychedelics & Healing
1:08:00 – Creativity, Bio-Sonification & What’s Next

Bio and Links
Brian d’Souza is the founder and CEO of Swell Studio, a London-based creative agency working between the intersection of sound, music and well-being. Brian is also an award-winning sound artist, DJ, music producer performing under the alias Auntie Flo, and successful entrepreneur, notably as founder of leading music consultancy Open Ear Music from which he exited in 2023.

Swell Studio delivers creative projects that use sound to positively benefit the listener, and is based on three principals: biophilic sound, sound therapy and generative music composition. Its clients include IHG, Imperial College, Muuto, Farfetch, Hotpod Yoga and more. It has been featured in GQ, Forbes, The Times, BBC, Discovery Channel and more.

As Auntie Flo,  Brian is a DJ renowned for ‘taking World Music into the future’ (The Guardian). Over a career spanning ten years, he’s played everywhere from Panorama Bar to Glastonbury, making his name as one of the most adventurous DJs around: performing in Cuba, Latin America, Asia, Africa and even the Arctic Circle. He has released four critically acclaimed albums, most notably Radio Highlife (Brownswood, 2018), which won the SAY award for Scottish Album of the Year. His fourth studio album ‘In My Dreams (I’m a Bird and I’m Free) in November 2024. It was awarded Global Album of the Month in the Guardian and Single of the Year by Disco Pogo and DJ History.

He currently runs A State of Flo records and blog, which is home to his dancefloor tracks, global collaborations and nature-based sound art and writing on music and the environment. His work most often centres around the creation of bioelectrical music from living things: plants, fungi and humans. His Plants Can Dance event series uses biodata to trigger notes on his specially built modular synthesizer in a process called bionsonification, with the intention of bridging the gap between the natural world and electronic music realm. This work has been commissioned by the likes of Art Angel, National Trust, Het Hem, V&A etc and featured in New Scientist, BBC 6 Music, BBC Radio 4, Tate Modern, Rolling Stone, BBC Radio 1 and more.

www.swellstudio.io
www.astateofflo.com
www.briandsouza.in

From his childhood discovery of creative flow to shaping the culture of UX in San Francisco, Nick reflects on the pivotal shifts that transformed design from skeuomorphic interfaces to design systems, and now to the rise of AI and agents.

Together, they explore what is left behind in each wave of transformation, why core human skills and principles remain essential, and how curiosity and experimentation will shape the future of design.

0:00 – Childhood Creativity & Early Flow States
6:30 – The Evolution of UX in San Francisco
12:44 – Designing for Humans: Early UX Insights
17:27 – The Impact of AI on UX
23:41 – What Gets Left Behind in Transformation
28:42 – Reinvention & The Ouroboros Mindset
32:01 – The Next Generation of Designers
38:35 – Synthetic Users & Experimentation
45:57 – Optimism for UX and Experience Design
53:19 – Core Principles That Endure

Nick Cawthorn Bio

Nick helps design teams stay ahead of the curve with their AI transformation. He has been curating self-assessments for UX & Design Teams at retrain.gauge.io, helping analyze industry trends and removing barriers to adoption.

Nick founded Gauge in 2001 in the San Francisco Bay Area to help organizations with evidence-based strategy and product decisions. Clients have grown to include Electronic Arts, Genentech, Airbnb, Adobe and many others. Nick is a professor in Data Literacy and Visualisation in the Design Strategy MBA program at his alma mater, California College of the Arts.

Links
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickcawthon-ux-digital-agency-product-design-leadership/

https://gauge.io/

#SoundDesign #WellnessInnovation #TheExperienceDesigners #ExperienceDesign

Episode Chapters
00:00 – Beginnings & Sonic Fascination
06:30 – From Cornwall to Global DJ
14:09 – Nature Sound & Soundscape Ecology
18:44 – Touring, Burnout & Recovery
30:31 – Therapeutic Music & Sleep Science
39:33 – Soundscaping Everyday Life
47:14 – White Mirror & Sensory Wellness Innovation
54:21 – Experience as Medicine

Bio and Links
Tom Middleton is a multi-award-winning composer, sound and sensory designer, and pioneer of Sonic Therapeutics for sleep, stress, pain, and performance. As co-founder of White Mirror, he creates health-promoting audio and sensory content grounded in salutogenic design - spanning digital therapeutics, immersive environments, and multi-sensory experiences. Originally mentored by Aphex Twin, Tom draws on classical and electronic roots, as a designer, orchestral cellist, DJ, and neuroscience researcher. His work continues to help millions via Calm, Apple Music, Sleep Cycle, and UMG’s Sleep Better.

He also created the world’s most relaxing noise and explores acoustic ecology, archaeo-acoustics, and sonic storytelling to raise awareness for planetary and human wellbeing. Tom serves on the Global Wellness Institute’s Music for Health & Wellbeing board and co-authored the sleep chapter in Touring and Mental Health: The Music Industry Manual. He’s committed to scaling evidence-based, humanity-first interventions in a world craving calm, care, and connection - where empathy becomes exponential, and design becomes medicine.

Links
www.whitemirror.studio

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tommiddletonmusic

Music
Here's the track 7-year-old Tom heard by Isao Tomita - https://open.spotify.com/track/2w0URaMReZtoWWDkboobkL?si=d884d327d15e4098

Also, here are two albums we love here at The Experience Designers Podcast - Enjoy!

Spatial Focus Music - https://open.spotify.com/album/0AVuGKpxfe3d9xJM90YbmN?si=XtqG2P1eTuu4BaCoScSrqQ
Spatial Sleep Music - https://open.spotify.com/album/6Ifo4VtUVq1a3evYQ6zMtM?si=Z5ZOIgsjTYGRmrScuF1i-Q

Episode Chapters
00:00 – Beginnings & Backstory
06:15 – Designing for Emotion & Well-being
14:30 – The Shift in Experiential Marketing
26:50 – Rethinking Creative Strategy
34:20 – Story-Living & Brand Immersion
46:45 – Designing Against Loneliness
58:15 – Life, Leadership & Saying Yes

#ExperientialMarketing #Neuroaesthetics #EmotionalDesign #TheExperienceDesigners #ExperienceDesign

Bio and Links:

Jessica Weickert is a creative strategy powerhouse whose expertise thrives at the intersection of science and creativity. She is driven by an unshakeable belief that transformative experiences hold the power to solve our world’s most complex challenges. As Vice President of Creative Strategy at XD Agency, an award-winning creative agency, Jessica leads a team of creative scientists — committed to applying neuroaesthetics to craft powerful moments that improve wellbeing and ultimately amplify human potential.

In 2024, Jessica was recognized as Women We Admire's Top 50 Women Leaders as a testament for her nearly two decades of work on clients such as LEGO, Poosh, and Lowe’s. She also earned a coveted seat on the World Experience Council (WXO), a global institution of leading experience visionaries dedicated to improving the quality of experiences. But above all her professional accolades, Jessica’s proudest role is the one she holds at home: being a mom.

A little more about XD Agency:

XD Agency (XDA) is an award-winning creative agency, bred from production chops, creating badass experiences for brands who want to redefine industries and rewrite the rules. For 25 years, they've been delivering groundbreaking ideas and unforgettable moments, earning the title of Ad Age Experiential Agency of the Year 2024. XDA proudly plays across B2B and B2C worlds with clients like LEGO, HBO, Cisco, Lowe’s, Adult Swim, and more. With hubs in New York, Atlanta, San Francisco, Portland, and Los Angeles, their teams are strategically positioned across the US and beyond dedicated to creating better — experiences, stories, relationships, worlds — everydamnday.

Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicaweickert/

https://www.xdagency.com/ 

We explore the origin story behind Punchdrunk’s masked worlds, the power of atmosphere in storytelling, and how emotional design continues to guide his work today. Whether it’s transforming derelict warehouses or crafting meditative audio experiences for overwhelmed audiences, Colin’s perspective invites us to rethink how we build experiences that people truly feel.

⏱️ Episode Chapters:
00:00 Colin's Unique Journey into Immersive Experience Design
08:05 The Cultural Landscape of London in the 80s and 90s
12:20 Early Career and the Transition to Creative Work
14:36 Life and journey into Punchdrunk
15:07 Finding Opportunities in London's Creative Scene
16:52 Finding My People: The Journey Begins
21:42 Finding Punchdrunk: The Lost Persons Parties
25:41 The Transformative Power of Space: Punchdrunk's Inspiration
30:40 From Concept to Reality: The Evolution of Punchdrunk
34:59 Navigating Growth: Balancing Creativity and Commercial Success
54:44 Collaboration and Communication in Creative Processes
56:42 The Influence of DJ Culture on Sound Design
58:57 Exploring Three-Dimensional Music Experiences
01:01:29 The Journey of Beyond the Road Project
01:06:18 Transitioning from Punch Drunk to Independent Artistry
01:07:23 Creating Calm and Meditative Spaces
01:14:45 The Importance of Disconnecting in a Digital Age
01:25:58 An Invitation to Mindfulness and Exploration

Colin's Bio and Links
Colin Nightingale is a British artist, creative producer and curator with over two decades of shaping audience experiences through cross-disciplinary storytelling. Holding a 1st Class Honours degree in Management and a background in music, DJ culture, event production, and outdoor arts festivals, Colin brings a unique blend of creative and operational expertise to the world of immersive performance.

In 2002, Colin encountered one of Punchdrunk's early experimental works in London and was instantly drawn to its groundbreaking approach to theatre. His connection with the company's founder, Felix Barrett, quickly evolved into a lasting creative collaboration. From 2003 onwards, Colin became a key member of Punchdrunk's core team, contributing to major productions such as Woyzeck, Faust, The Masque of the Red Death, Sleep No More (productions in Boston, New York, Shanghai and now Seoul), The Drowned Man and The Burnt City.  He also co-conceived with Barrett, and produced unique projects including Tunnel 228, a collision of Visual and Art and Performance and Vescovo, a one off collaboration with the rock musician Jack White & XL Recordings.  Over the years, he has held roles including Senior Producer, Creative Producer, and Audience Experience Curator, helping shape the company's globally influential immersive theatre experiences.   

In 2019, along with artist and sound designer Stephen Dobbie, he founded A Right/Left Project, a creative studio specialising in immersive sound and art installations. Their recent work includes ORIGIN (2024), a bespoke deep listening experience at Dunham Massey, a National Trust historic property in Cheshire, as well as Beyond The Road, a genre-blending audio-visual walk through album installation in collaborated with James Lavelle/UNKLE that premiered at Saatchi Gallery (2019) before enjoying an extended 6 month run at Alt1 Gallery at The Hyundai Seoul (2021).  

He continues to serve as an Associate Artist at Punchdrunk but his core focus is now A Right/Left Project, allowing him and Stephen to explore a range of collaborations and interests that fuse music, sound, and immersive storytelling to reimagine how audiences experience art.  

Links
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-nightingale
Website: https://www.arightleftproject.com/about

Together, they unpack the true power of stories: as tools for building trust, designing immersive experiences, and revealing hidden emotional truths that traditional surveys and metrics often miss. James shares his personal journey from childhood storytelling to launching a platform that uses AI and narrative analytics to transform how brands understand their customers and employees.

The conversation explores:

• The shift from storytelling to storyliving
• How emotions in stories reveal untapped insights
• The link between employee experience (EX) and customer experience (CX)
• Why belonging and trust are core to both culture and performance
• And how leaders must listen, reflect, and design for impact, not just intention

If you’re in brand strategy, customer experience, HR, insight, leadership, or simply passionate about the human side of business this episode is a must-listen.

⏱️ Episode Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction and Warm Welcome
00:18 – The Essence of Storytelling
03:11 – Evolution of Storytelling
05:10 – Immersive Storytelling Experiences
07:05 – Storytelling in Travel and Retail
14:06 – Personal Storytelling Journey
15:21 – Leveraging Storytelling for Business Insights
22:03 – Challenges in Storytelling and Research
31:32 – Analyzing Customer Stories for Emotional Insights
32:28 – Integrating AI for Deeper Emotional Understanding
34:48 – The Intersection of Customer and Employee Experience
37:00 – The Relationship Between Employees and Customers
38:36 – Building Trust Through Story
42:55 – Creating Belonging in the Workplace
45:34 – Empathy at Scale: Designing for Real Impact
51:52 – Leadership’s Role in CX + EX Transformation
54:44 – Storytelling, Inclusion, and Community
59:10 – Reflections on Human Connection and Purpose

James' Bio and Links
James Warren is the Founder and CEO of Share More Stories, a human experience insights company. The company’s primary offering is the SEEQ Platform, which helps organizations and brands uncover the emotional drivers behind employee and customer experiences.
James is a researcher, strategist, writer and facilitator who blends storytelling, AI, and insights to help companies better understand themselves, their customers, and their communities.
With nearly 30 years of experience in marketing, insights, strategy, and innovation, he is passionate about the intersections of humanity, technology, brands, communities, and culture. An active community leader, he volunteers on several boards. He studied economics and literature at Princeton, and creative writing at Columbia. Originally from New York, James now calls Richmond home.

Links
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-warren-seeq/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/share-more-stories/
Instagram: @warrenjwric
Instagram: @sharemorestories
Website: sharemorestories.com | SEEQPlatform.com

Learn how intentionality, multi-sensory design, and post-show reflection can help creators craft moments that truly resonate, transport audiences into flow states, and leave a lasting impact. Tune in for practical experience design tips, real-world case studies (including Hermès’s non-transactional activation), and a fresh framework for evaluating remarkable experiences.

DOWNLOAD the REMARKABLE experience report - https://www.reuleaux.world/#remarkable-2025

Laura Hess is an experience strategist for interactive and immersive mediums. She champions experiential design and its power to move and change people for the better. Past projects include brand activations, experiential marketing, participatory theatre, film, VR, installation art, and themed entertainment.

Drawing from her interdisciplinary background, she specialises in creative strategy and concept development across new and traditional formats, delivering meaningful solutions for independent and global media companies.

In 2021, she founded Reuleaux, an experiential consultancy. She’s also a founding member and advisor for the World Experience Organization and No Proscenium’s arts editor. After completing a Master of Science in Leadership for Creative Enterprises at Northwestern University, she has no plans for another degree with a longer title.

Contact links

https://www.linkedin.com/in/hess-laura
https://www.reuleaux.world/
https://laurahess.substack.com/

Chapters

00:00 The Journey of Exploring 500 Experiences

04:55 The Importance of Reflection in Experience Design

09:10 Creating the Remarkable Model

14:57 Understanding the Components of the Remarkable Model

20:45 Evaluating Experiences: The Rubric Explained

28:38 Understanding Experience Scoring

31:33 The Importance of Flow and Connection

33:43 The Role of Audience Participation

35:57 Navigating Commercial vs. Meaningful Experiences

38:28 Intentionality in Experience Design

41:43 Hermes: A Case Study in Non-Transactional Experiences

47:02 Cultural Exchange and Brand Relationships

51:12 Themes in Experience Design

54:24 The Shift Towards Intentionality in Experiences

54:58 Sensorial Aspects: The Key to In-Person Engagement

56:31 The Power of Live Performers in Experiences

59:47 Exploring the Beyond Cognition Case Study

01:03:32 The Importance of Sensory-Driven Experiences

01:04:38 Reflections on Experience Design and Improvement

01:10:08 The Need for Reflection and Iteration in Design

01:12:00 Closing the interview and contacting Laura

From sensory design to return-to-office (RTO) policies, Tom shares powerful insights from his travels into global workplaces, highlighting where companies get it right (hello, Miro and Santander) and where they fall flat with flashy but functionless design.

Expect bold ideas, real-world stories, and a challenge to rethink the office not as a place you have to go, but one you’re drawn to. If you're interested in employee experience, workplace culture, or the future of work, this one’s for you.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:34 Debating the Return to Office Mandates
01:22 Challenges and Perspectives on Office Policies
02:44 Communication and Clarity in Workplace Policies
03:56 Examples of Office Policies and Their Impact
08:25 Shifts in Workplace Dynamics Post-Pandemic
12:14 Innovative Office Designs and Employee Experience
17:38 Wellness and Wellbeing in the Workplace
22:23 The Future of Office Spaces and Employee Engagement
26:20 Exploring Office Environments: Personal Experiences
32:51 Exploring Miro's Office Culture
36:20 The Importance of Functionality in Office Design
40:31 Santander's Innovative Office Space
49:05 Future Trends in Workplace Experience
56:37 Reimagining the Office Environment
01:01:53 Conclusion and Where to Find More Content

Tom's Bio & Links

Co-Founder and Creative Director of WRKPLC, a first-of-its-kind workplace strategy business that uses creative content and media about office design. Our content is designed to help inspire and educate people on how to make decisions on their workplace.
 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@wrkplc
Website: https://www.wrkplc.co.uk/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thitch 

Building on her recent keynote at the London Experience Week and forthcoming book - The Building Blocks of Experience Design. She explains how emotion-first design unlocks deeper narrative power. Starting with detective-grade audience research, designing for a full spectrum of feelings (not just "happy"), and letting those emotions drive lasting thought and behaviour change. 

We explore her journey from theatre and fashion production to founding the School of Experience Design, showing why tech should amplify rather than replace human insight, and share practical tools like her "Emotion Change Equation" for crafting truly transformative experiences. 

Find out more about Pigalle’s upcoming book: schoolofexperiencedesign.net/book-form

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pigalletavakkoli

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:05 Formative Years and Parental Influence

06:15 Journey into Experience Design

08:47 Teaching and Developing Methods

14:36 Human-Centred Design Philosophy

22:15 The Role of Technology in Design

31:00 The Role of a Producer: A Two-Way Dialogue

32:17 Exploring Human Emotions in Experience Design

34:08 The Emotion Change Equation

35:48 Designing Memorable Experiences

41:27 Reflecting on Emotional Impact

45:46 Defining Experiences and Transformations

49:12 Personal Transformational Experiences

51:56 The Interconnectedness of Human Experiences

56:28 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find More

This experience led him to prioritize quality over quantity in his work. Stefan shares his approach to restructuring his workload by focusing on fewer projects, which fosters creativity and personal growth.

The discussion explores how AI can transform work dynamics, emphasizing the importance of intentionality, collaboration, and leadership. Highlighting AI's potential to enhance human capabilities and create meaningful work experiences, along with the significance of self-awareness and social sustainability in modern workplaces.

00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:21 The Mosaic Career Metaphor
00:56 Moments of Clarity and Self-Experimentation
01:32 AI and Leadership
02:32 Reimagining Work and Life Balance
05:37 Failures and Learnings
08:52 The Human Experience and AI
16:26 Leadership and AI Integration
36:08 Setting Guardrails for AI Integration
36:19 AI in Blue Collar Jobs
37:56 AI in Customer Support and Beyond
39:05 Personal Experiences with AI
43:03 The Impact of AI on Work and Society
54:43 Future Leadership in an AI Context
01:02:44 Final Reflections and Closing Thoughts

Stefan's Bio & links:

Stefan is a hands-on visionary and globally recognized thought leader in service design, innovation, and the future of work. With over 20 years of international experience, he has held senior leadership roles at global companies, award-winning agencies, and McKinsey. He works as fractional Head of Innovation at Max Matthiessen, a leading Nordic pension, insurance and wealth management company with 135 year history as one of the most trusted brands embarking on an exciting journey.

Known for his ability to translate complex challenges into human-centered strategies, Stefan works across industries to help organizations empower employees, create thriving cultures, and deliver standout customer experiences. His work blends service design with systems thinking, leadership development, and emerging technologies like AI to unlock new pathways for growth and transformation.

Stefan has advised governments, public sector organizations, and iconic global brands including IKEA, LEGO, Ericsson, Amex, Nordea, Disney, and adidas. He is passionate about guiding organizations to not only design better services—but to design better futures.

Stefan Moritz {LinkedIn}
Website: https://www.stefan-moritz.com/ 

00:00 The Persona of Klaus Raasted

03:51 Foundations of LARPing: A Journey Begins

09:39 From Participant to Organizer: Building a Career

13:21 Evolving Narratives: The Growth of Role-Playing

18:01 Transformative Experiences in LARPing

18:04 The College of Extraordinary Experiences: A New Chapter

19:55 The College of Extraordinary Experiences

21:19 The Power of Shared Experiences

22:42 Intentional Experience Design

26:20 Co-Creation and Chaos in Experiences

28:21 Insights from McKinsey: Data-Driven Decisions

33:49 The Evolution of Experience Design

40:46 Finding the Right Balance in Experience Design

44:58 Resources for Experience Design Enthusiasts

Claus’s bio & links

Claus Raasted helps organizations both big and small become better at GETTING S**T DONE and serves as Director of the College of Extraordinary Experiences. He travels the globe as a keynote speaker and has been both a Coach and Senior Advisor at the consulting giant McKinsey. Raasted is the author of 46 books, the latest of which is fittingly titled Claus Raasted’s Little Book of Getting Shit Done. He also has a past in reality TV, but these days, who hasn’t?

www.clausraasted.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/clausraasted

They also explore how attention has become scarce in today’s fast-paced world, emphasising co-creation, reflection, and lessons learned from recent global shifts. Discover how thoughtful design can spark meaningful change in personal and professional realms.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Experience Design

02:47 Personal Journey and Early Influences

05:59 Defining Experience Design

08:57 Academic Environment and Experience Design Education

12:00 Global Trends in Experience Design

14:59 Intentionality in Experience Design

18:13 The Experience Ladder: From Ordinary to Transformative

21:12 Reflection and Meaning in Experiences

24:03 The Importance of Transformative Experiences

26:47 Navigating Transformation in a Rapidly Changing World

32:47 The Scarcity of Attention

35:44 Guided Transformations in Experience Design

37:40 The Role of Experience Designers

41:51 The Evolution of Work Experiences

50:28 Future of Experience Design

01:01:25 Connecting Through Experiences

Mats bio & links

Mat is the Department Chair of Experience Design and Management at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. His experience design research focuses on memorable, meaningful, and transformative experiences. He also collaborates on research exploring the neurological connection between storytelling and social connection. 

Mat’s publications have appeared in various journals, including the Journal of Applied Psychology, Journal of Environmental Psychology, Journal of Adolescent Research, and Journal of Leisure Research. Mat co-authored Designing Experiences with Robert Rossman, which was published in 2019 by Columbia Business School Press. In 2021, Axiom Business Awards selected the book as a silver medalist winner in the Business Intelligence/Innovation category. Mat works with organisations across various sectors, including healthcare, education, not-for-profit, tourism, manufacturing, and consumer product goods, to provide training and consulting around experience design.

Mat Duerden (LinkedIn)

Professor

Alumni Distinguished Fellow

Department of Experience Design and Management

Marriott School of Business

Brigham Young University

Co-author of Designing Experiences

Link to Six App - https://your6.com/
Connect with Paul - https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-zak-91123510/
TED talk - https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_zak_trust_morality_and_oxytocin

In this episode, we peel back the curtain on the often-overlooked and unknown 'dark side' of Disney's magic. From the hidden infrastructure at Disney parks to designing festivals that feel like second homes, Goc reveals how intentional design can transform ordinary spaces into extraordinary memories. 

Get ready to explore behind the scenes of thoughtful details, and see how the environments around us are engineered to make us feel, move, and connect in profound ways.

00:00 Introduction to the Experience Designers Podcast

01:05 Guest Introduction: Goc O'Callaghan

02:06 The Dark Side of Disney

03:13 Disney's Design Secrets

07:07 Real-Time Feedback and Customer Experience

08:47 Designing for the Senses

10:48 Applying Disney's Principles to Business

15:36 Experience Design in Structural Engineering

18:55 Quantifying Experience

31:26 Personalizing Office Spaces

38:02 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

43:55 Conclusion and Farewell

This is a festival that started as a childhood dream in a bluebell forest and grew into a multi-award-winning independent festival. This is the first of a special two-part series in which Goc shares her story of building something extraordinary from the ground up. In this episode, we dive into those early days and the magic of creating memorable experiences.

Together, we dive into the heart of what makes customer experiences truly remarkable: human connection, ownership, and care. We explore why so many business leaders feel disconnected from their customers, the role technology plays in both enhancing and damaging experiences, and how companies can cultivate human traits like empathy, respect, and responsibility in everything they do.

Join us as we uncover the real secret to turning an ordinary—or even negative—experience into something extraordinary. Whether you're in customer service, leadership, or just curious about the magic of human-centred design, this episode is packed with insights and inspiration you won’t want to miss!

She emphasizes the importance of trust, adaptability, and community-building within organizations. Key takeaways include the impact of personal and corporate trust, the role of HR as a mega facilitator, and leveraging employee communities for organizational success. Elena also highlights the power of authentic personal branding and the crucial role of human experiences in fostering strong, interconnected networks.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:12 Reflecting on a Unique Journey

02:26 Starting at Oriflame

04:38 Challenges and Growth

09:32 Building Trust and Impact

14:22 The Role of HR and Leadership

32:01 Community and Networks

35:48 The Power of Connection and Trust

36:51 Challenges in Corporate Values

37:22 Creating Unified Communities

39:47 Moments That Matter

43:09 Leveraging Internal Strengths

48:59 Authentic Personal Branding

54:13 Humanizing Leadership

59:53 Belief and Leadership

01:02:01 Final Thoughts and Reflections

With Mette Aagaard we explore the benefits, guiding principles and biggest challenges of shifting our corporate paradigm from delegated to truly distributed.

Nele is an organisational psychologist and coach who specialises in vertical development. We dive into what vertical development even is. Why do we need it? And what you can do to make space for it on your journey consciously.

With Linda, we take a scientific and neurological perspective to human thriving and guides organizations on how to uncover sustainable human potential and performance. 

Well, they commit to a dedicated people experience team and start their journey of introducing a way of working that puts the employee at the heart of everything. Applying a human-centric approach, whilst delivering benefit for the people involved and showcasing the methods and mindset along the way, all the whilst using the process to change hearts and minds. 

Only when we listen, learn to understand, and respond to the signals that our body sends us, are we able to actually enhance our contribution, health and well-being. 

But it’s not until you really lean in and take a forensic lens that you truly start to understand where things can go seriously wrong. Especially from an experience and employer brand perspective. 

With Eleni Jacobs we break down the concept of psychological safety and look at the conscious and unconscious dynamics that rule and create our teams - as a group and as individuals.

With Andre Fangueiro we explore different facets of design, from individual behaviors to leadership, career development and organizational structures. What does it actually take to do design (successfully)?

They share 10 big lessons they’ve learnt over the course of the year and the different facets of more human.

With Anamaria Dorgo's unique voice and experience in community building, we explore what makes a good community. And how do we go about creating communities that add value to both the people in them and the world around them… 

Together with Josh Hammonds we try to decode different styles of communication and what that means both to how we talk and to how we listen. And we explore if there is even a “right” way to communicate or if we are all simply… different?

Working well together is not just a set of skills, it is also a mindset. Together with Jim Tamm we explore what Radical Collaboration means and dive into the capabilities we need in order to take radical responsibility for how our teams and collective environments work… Hint, it has everything to do with looking at yourself in the mirror…

Together with Teresa Clark, we explore different lenses of wellbeing, such as trust, feedback and creativity and how we can think and act to enable a deeper sense of wellbeing for ourselves and in our workplaces.

With Alex Budak we dive into the practices and skills we need to practice to live with and drive change in engaging and regenerative ways.

With Carina, we explore her observations of people’s last wishes in palliative care and how we can lead, plan and communicate in order to connect with others to create moments that matter - at any point in their life journey.

www.linkedin.com/in/morten-raahauge-9823368/

Books we discussed:

The Experience Economy - Review here
Exponential Organisations - Review here

Experience Designers Ep 2

(We use a mix of automated transcript software and editing for readability)

Steve (Host): [00:00:14] Hi Morten, thank you very much for joining me for this episode.

Morten: [00:00:20] My pleasure.

Steve (Host): [00:00:20] Good stuff. So we've got a few things we wanted to cover off today as part of this interview or discussion. A lot will be centered around the employee experience and the evolution and where we think this could be heading and how H.R. departments could be developing the employee experience and playing a big part in this.
 

Steve (Host): [00:00:48] I think one of the things for me just to give some context is that I think generally right now the employee experiences is a really hot topic. I think we've gone from a period probably in the last ten years where there's always been a focus on employee engagement and certainly in the UK there was lots of research undertaken by a chap called David McCleod. He did some work under the previous UK government Labour government and latterly into the Conservative government which is around employee engagement and looking at it from a kind of top down perspective and more recently with the evolution on employee experience, it tends to be that kind of bottom up approach, looking at shaping and creating experiences for employees.

Steve (Host): [00:01:41] So I guess this falls in line with some of the experience economy stuff, which I'm sure we'll cover. What's your view around around this, where do you think we are around the topic of employee experience right now? What driving this?

Morten: [00:02:00] Well I think there's a lot of discussion on the topic and what I've been noticing is that people seem to have a little bit of unnecessary difficulties. You can sort of attack this from an array of different angles. And for me it's pretty simple because I'm a fully certified experience economy expert. So for me the whole methodology is there but it's really just applying experience design to this new area. Just as you would with any other business or business area. It's just another business area that needs to go through the same sort of change.

Morten: [00:02:53] So the methodology is there and there's a lot of models. And I think if this is something you want to work with. Then all the models all the ways of viewing things that's in the experience economy can be applied in a pretty straightforward way and easily implemented. So for me it's easy, but it seems to be there's a big discussion also, the different parts you know. Okay so what's the employee experience here? What's the employee experience there? And one other thing when you talk about experience, it usually centers on things that are sort of experiences by themselves. So in the experience economy you often speak about concerts or festivals or you know tourism stuff like that. But this is really a way of looking at things that could be applied to anything and especially in business and still make a lot of sense. So it doesn't have to be sort of above the experience you've just got to work in the morning. I mean you can you can even work on that if you want to.

Steve (Host): [00:04:05] So just taking from the other functions or other business areas that have gone through this change. I mean H.R. and I think learning and development tend to be the ones that kind of lag behind I think, is my view within organisations. Which is crazy because it's the most people focussed areas. For the listeners out there that are sitting in a human resource department or talent department what kind of symptoms do you think that they will be seeing within the organization that would I guess lean well to kind of say we need to look at adopting or engaging some kind of experience design.

Morten: [00:04:48] Well, when I worked with experience design in other areas the first thing you really need. Well first you have to decide that this is what you want to do. I mean you can't just. Well I'll do some of it. So if it gets to be a strategic approach I think that's good. And I think the way H.R. could look at it is that if you want to step up the H.R. Then this is definitely a way to go.

Morten: [00:05:16] There's something about the name, I mean H.R. human resources and if you if you look at resources as a word in itself it's like people are being dug up from the ground or picked off trees and they're really not because they're they're actually human. So, in the commodities industry, which would be all the other kinds of resources, metals and crops etc... In this economy the business imperative is to supply availability. So what H.R. is doing right now is they have this commodities approach to people. So what they do is they supply availability, so they have a steady influx of people to the organization.

Morten: [00:06:03] The other thing they're doing is linked to the product economy where they where they control the costs. So that would be sort of negotiating your salary or bonus programs and stuff like that. So really right now what they do in H.R. is that they're stuck in a sort of a narrative that is linked to the commodities and to the goods economy. And in the progression of economic value, the next economy is a service economy then it's an experience economy and then it's a transformation economy.

Morten: [00:06:35] But what does H.R. and you probably have to change the name, but what does HR look like if it's a service. What does it look like if it's an experience and that would be employee experience and what does it look like if it's the transformation economy.

Morten: [00:06:50] So a lot of things are linked to the way they speak about things so. So we we discussed this briefly, so you had this is where talent acquisition, so the notion that you acquire talent just as you would acquire buildings, machinery or physical assets, I can't get my head around that, why would talk about people in a way that sort of puts them on the same level as a piece of machinery. I don't get that. It's very much this industrial mindset about what work is and what people is. I think in many ways, this is a bit harsh but I think in many ways H.R. is dehumanizing humans because they speak about them in ways that makes them not human.

Morten: [00:07:41] There's this big Danish company the other day a novel, you probably heard of them. They had to lay off 1300 people. And they way they speak about it is not that they destroy, I mean at least momentarily the lives of 1300 people. No they're just cutting back. I mean, what's that about?

Morten: [00:08:03] So there's this lack of empathy, there's this lack of understanding that people wake up in the morning with with real aspirations about themselves and what they want to do in a workplace or in their private life. So how can you sort of ta...

(Edited for readability)

Steve: Hi my name's Steve Usher and welcome to the experience designers podcast.

Steve: Over the course of this podcast series, I'm really excited to meet and interview people from a diverse range of industries and backgrounds. However, they will all have one thing in common, and that is design thinking and human centered design. And I hope that by sharing their stories, together we can create our own movement in the H.R. and talent acquisition community. And this is where I genuinely believe design thinking can play a massive part in improving the experience during the hiring, onboarding and employee experience.

Steve: So for my first episode I thought it would be really fitting to go back to a place that really inspired me this year. And that was the Design Thinkers Academy in Amsterdam

Steve: And I got the opportunity to spend more time with Arne, who is one of the co-founders, and we talked about a huge variety of topics – ranging from artificial intelligence and machine learning through to an amazing segment on empathy. And of course we talked design thinking as well. So, strap yourselves in. Enjoy the show. And here we go.

Steve: So Arne. Welcome to the Experience Design show. Thank you so much for agreeing to be part of my first ever podcast today.

Arne: My pleasure. 

Steve: Excellent. So we are here in Amsterdam at the Design Thinkers Academy HQ. This is such a wonderful space. So any excuse to come back here, I always take it. Definitely. So, today I'd like to cover off quite a few things, if possible, and just have a good conversation about Design Thinking (DT) and get your views on how you see certain things in the world from a DT point of view.

Steve: So, for the listeners – from your perspective – just a little bit about yourself and intro into your background. 

Arne: Well, I'm the founder of Design Thinkers Group/Academy. It’s now 11 years ago, so I'm getting old. I can tell, seriously, because there are pictures of me in the videos that we still show in training sessions… Just now, downstairs, there was a video of me doing a project, and I thought to myself ‘Wait a minute! I'm getting old… Oh my god. What's happening?’.

Arne: So, you know, we went through a huge evolution. My company/organization, our network, community… So there's so much stuff to talk about. But I think mainly what kind of happened to us over the decade is that we've been busy with design thinking and service design.

Arne: What we went from, here in Amsterdam and in the Netherlands, we went from sort of a more consultancy mindset to a facilitation training/coaching kind of organisation to where we felt that it's actually  about teaching. You know, be a teacher. And for me personally, you know, both being a teacher and creating a platform for knowledge to be shared. Those are the things that are to us the most important things that have happened.

Steve: How would you say, from your own perspective, how has the business kind of evolved from where it was? From its first day one to where it is now.

Arne: When I started being interested in service design, really in design thinking as well but mainly service design… That's probably like 15 years ago or so, when I was with my previous agency. I fell in love with this openness and this collaborative spirit and… Everyone was kind of active in that space and shared their methodology. I love that. And I was in an agency where it was very competitive and – as my customer, I don’t know your customer. Totally not sharing. In the Netherlands alone, this tiny little country, we had like thousands of agencies just like us. So there was so much stuff – and there was also a lot of work obviously. It was a healthy market.

Arne: But I was kind of fed up with both this attitude of non-collaborative attitude. You know, the closed doors and working isolated from other people. And I met so many inspirational people, and I though ‘Wow, I'd love to work with these people.’. But I couldn't because they weren’t at my agency – and it wasn’t MY agency – etc., etc. and I really, really, really wanted to work with clients on the questions they had – and not only work with the solutions they already came up with, because usually they were crappy solutions. And as an agency you were given sort of the task to put a nice ribbon on a nice box and a nice colour on it. But you can't really change the solution, and I wanted to kind of be part of where this was still the question. So that was one of the things I loved. That it’s so open and I love this kind of… I love this promise of being part of the question. 

Arne: When we started, there was sort of a thing… Because it's a very traditional thought, just saying: ‘Oh, so we're going to design a service’, for instance. But I personally never made a difference between products and services, because it's really about the value you create. So basically, it’s the same thing. But I did kind of think ‘Okay, so we're going to design a service, together with our client and they're going to implement that.’. Right? I'd been in the business for quite a while, had worked with corporates kind, but that was still really what was in my mind.

Arne: So that's what we would do, because that's a service that we would provide to our clients: Help them create a beautiful service and a beautiful service experience. Obviously, that's not how things turn out, because they cannot implement it. It's not really about ideas. They had lots of ideas, you know, and what we found out quite quickly is that you can do lots of workshops – one day workshop two day workshops – and everybody loves you. It's fantastic and they go home, giving each other high fives, and the next day, it's like… Nothing. Silence. Absolutely nothing happens. It’s business as usual. Nothing is or will be implemented. In other words, it’s obvious that nothing will be changed, because it is not about that. And the whole mantra of service design and design thinking, is that it starts with the end user. It's nonsense. It doesn't start with the end user. It starts with understanding the system. It starts with understanding all the players and usually the first the hairy challenge, the big problem, is internal. It is about the mess businesses really are, the total chaos and all the emotional stuff that goes on within organisations and then to get stuff done that is beautiful…? No way!

Steve: So, Arne, say someone has just listened to this section, just now, and suddenly had an epiphany or has been inspired and wants to make a change in their organization or create a movement… From your perspective how does Design Thinking play a part in that? For those that perhaps hasn't been exposed to this way of thinking or this way of working.

Arne: So first of all, a little bit about Design Thinking. Design Thinking – these are words like lean start-up, service design, UX, agile and so on, you know. These words, what they mean is that we're actually looking for a solution. So different people with different backgrounds came up with ideas and they gave it a name. But the underlying problem is the same. We are all trying to solve the same problem. We all try to, kind of, find a methodology or a system or a way of thinking that helps us out of this problem. Out of this this systemic problem. To become really human centred, to be able to experiment, to be able to be free… Basical...