You will hear how to pilot a role with volunteers before you commit to a salary, why the Executive Pastor has to hold the line on every believer owning the Great Commission, and how a little forensic analysis can show you where assumptions and perfectionism are driving the hiring decision.

In this episode:
- Why staff requests bring constant tension, and how to respond
- How to run a pilot with a volunteer team, with a debrief every week
- How a pilot can change the job description you eventually write
- Holding the line on the priesthood of all believers
- Why staff can take up all the oxygen
- Forensic analysis: where did this need come from, and where are we assuming excellence matters most?
- Why the XP's job includes disappointing people at a rate they can tolerate

Your next step this week: look at your staff and pick one place to pilot something with volunteers.

More episodes and resources: https://executivepastor.io
Episode page: https://executivepastor.io/episodes/12-how-to-decide-volunteer-or-paid-staff-for-this-role

Next episode: How to Handle Staff Conflict Without Picking Sides

Timeline
0:00 Cold open
0:17 Welcome and baseball banter
0:50 Today's topic: volunteer or paid staff for this role
1:14 Why hiring requests bring constant tension
1:40 Point 1: Pilot before you hire
1:52 How to pilot with a volunteer team
3:30 What a pilot teaches you about the job description
5:08 Point 2: Hold the line on Great Commission ownership
6:20 The priesthood of all believers
7:45 Why staff can take up all the oxygen
8:30 Point 3: Forensic analysis of the need
9:32 Where are we assuming excellence matters most?
10:43 Disappointing people at a rate they can tolerate
11:10 Recap and your next step this week
12:00 Next time: staff conflict

You will learn:
- Why avoiding the conversation makes things worse and tells your whole staff the wrong message
- Why clarity is kindness, and why vague feedback is actually less kind
- A simple way to open the conversation so the person knows what is at stake
- How to tell a performance issue from a fit issue, and why you should gather wider perspective first
- Why character and moral issues need to be handled right away
- How to document with care: verbal conversation, check for understanding, written follow-up, and a consistent process
- Where a smaller church with no HR process should start

This week's action step: if you have been avoiding a conversation, schedule it this week and use these tips to begin.

TIMELINE
0:00 Cold open
0:17 Welcome and meet Erin Johnston
0:49 The cost of avoiding the conversation
1:24 What your other staff notice
2:18 Clarity is kindness
3:26 How to open the conversation
4:38 The goal: nobody is blindsided
5:26 Performance issue or fit issue?
6:32 Get a wider perspective before you correct
7:37 Character and moral issues
9:37 How to document without being cold
10:09 Check for understanding
10:36 Verbal warning, written warning, and improvement plan
11:45 Consistency is your friend
12:05 Where a smaller church should start
12:46 Recap and your action step
13:12 Next episode and wrap up

COMING NEXT: Should this role be filled by a volunteer or paid staff?

More episodes and resources at https://executivepastor.io

The Executive Pastor Podcast is hosted by Doug Parks and Bart Rendel and brought to you by Intentional Churches. Subscribe so you do not miss a new episode every week.

#ExecutivePastor #ChurchLeadership #ChurchStaffing #ChurchAdministration #HardConversations #IntentionalChurches

You will learn:
- Why you should build a three- to five-year org chart before you write a single job description
- How to avoid "whack-a-mole" hires that solve today's pain point and make tomorrow miserable
- How to tell if you have a missing role or just an overloaded one, using a simple two-week time matrix
- How to audit functions and ask whether a volunteer team could do the work
- How to sequence hires as you scale, and why developers of people beat specialists
- Why a staff-to-attendance ratio around 1 to 100 should drive hiring decisions with data, not emotion
- What "leadership weight" is and how to add capacity instead of one more doer

This week's action step: sketch your three- to five-year org chart, even as a rough draft, and let it guide your next hiring conversation.

TIMELINE
0:00 Cold open
0:16 Welcome and meet Erin Johnston
1:11 Why the next hire is so hard to get right
2:59 Start with the future org chart, not the job description
4:14 Avoiding whack-a-mole hires
5:44 Is it a missing role or an overloaded role?
7:12 The time matrix tool
7:51 Audit the functions and use volunteers
8:25 How to sequence hires as you scale
9:52 Staff-to-attendance ratios and data-driven triggers
11:12 Leadership weight and multiplying capacity
12:12 Recap and your action step this week
12:56 Next episode and wrap up

COMING NEXT: Episode 11, how to have the hard conversation with an underperformer.

More episodes and resources at https://executivepastor.io

The Executive Pastor Podcast is hosted by Doug Parks and Bart Rendel and brought to you by Intentional Churches. Subscribe so you do not miss a new episode every week.

#ExecutivePastor #ChurchLeadership #ChurchStaffing #ChurchHiring #ChurchAdministration #IntentionalChurches

In this episode
The 6 numbers that actually matter
Leading vs. lagging financial indicators
How to build reserves without stalling ministry

Timeline:
0:03 Welcome
0:18 Why the executive pastor is the linchpin for Great Commission ownership
1:01 How long it should take to know if your church’s finances are healthy
1:42 What belongs on page one of your financial dashboard
2:11 The goal isn’t a financially healthy church, it’s one that sends people to own the Great Commission
2:39 Per capita giving: how to calculate it and what a high number can signal
4:23 The $40 per person per week benchmark and giving units by tier
5:04 Why moving people up the giving tiers is a discipleship question
6:23 FTE ratio, personnel as a percent of budget, and tracking baptisms and conversions
7:30 Debt ratio and why a building should never be a growth strategy
8:03 Leading vs. lagging indicators
8:46 Count everyone once, and why a falling per capita can mean a church on mission
11:10 Does the $40 benchmark still hold with inflation and wage growth
12:11 What giving units by tier tell you about discipleship
12:50 Trends over time vs. one anomaly, like a factory closing
13:17 Building financial reserves without stalling ministry
14:20 The three reserve buckets: checking cushion, emergency savings, and capital
15:37 Why we count things: Holy Spirit discernment, not just numbers
16:30 This week’s challenge and a look at episode 10

In this episode
Why the 50% personnel rule exists
Fewer people paid well vs. more paid poorly
How to add a role without breaking the ratio

Timeline:
0:00 Cold open: hiring a bunch of doers instead of developers
0:28 Welcome
0:38 What percentage of your budget goes to staff
0:55 The 40 to 55% range and the time we “hired like a drunken sailor”
2:14 What we’ll cover: seven underpaid hires vs four well-paid ones, and the org chart
2:38 Why the 50% rule exists and how it frees up the other budget buckets
4:11 The biggest reason: funding the doing of ministry vs equipping others (Ephesians 4)
5:45 What counts in the number: wages, payroll taxes, health insurance, retirement
6:05 Fewer people paid well beats more people paid poorly
6:24 The “three for one special” and stacking roles on one person
6:52 Hire developers, not doers
7:07 Volunteers instead of hires: the janitorial and money-counting examples
9:02 What Jesus did when he called the disciples, and paying good leaders well
9:40 How the 50% constraint forces creativity and builds lay-leader ownership
11:50 Take the names off the org chart and organize by function
14:04 How often to revisit it: yearly, or every six months if you’re growing fast
14:38 Church plants and the full-time-equivalent ratio per 100 in attendance
15:33 Example: a church of 500 and five full-time equivalents
16:02 Recap, this week’s challenge, and a look at episode 9
17:08 Outro

In this episode
Start with mission, not last year's spreadsheet
The three buckets every church budget needs
How to defend cuts without starting a war

Timeline:
0:00 Cold open: a church that committed 25% of giving to foreign missions
0:37 Welcome
1:06 Today's topic: building a church budget that reflects your mission
1:34 Why nearly every church budget is just last year plus 3%
1:53 What we'll cover: mission first, then the spreadsheet, then defending cuts
2:27 Start with mission, not last year's budget
3:22 The planning session: 3 to 5 year window and your top three priorities
4:17 The bucket approach: personnel, operations, ministry, and giveaway
5:33 When the giveaway bucket runs away from you
6:53 Outsourcing the mission, and the church with the leaking roof
7:59 Acts 1:8 and the myth of the 10% rule
8:58 How to make budget cuts without starting an internal war
9:15 Why bottom-up budgets become a wish list and a "bloody budget meeting"
9:44 Start from the top down: fixed costs first, then ministry budgets
10:15 Make ministries negotiate with each other before they come to you
11:01 Why going to find a deep-pocket giver is a flawed strategy
11:45 Recap and this week's challenge: name your top three ministry priorities
12:25 Next episode: keeping staff costs under the 50% line

In this episode
Spotting lapsed givers before they're gone
Simple scenario forecasting from your giving data
Why the numbers inform the decision but don't make it

Check out more episodes and resources at https://executivepastor.io

0:00 Intro and welcome
0:31 Today's topic: using AI to analyze giving trends and forecast your budget
0:44 Looking back at the 2008-09 Great Recession and what this would have helped with
1:35 When do most churches actually find out they have a giving problem
2:07 Using AI to shorten the timing on financial decisions
2:51 Turning a financial report into a real forecast, not an unopened spreadsheet
3:09 A change in giving pattern is a pastoral moment
3:09 Defining "lapsed" for your church and feeding your giving export into AI
4:34 Building a monthly habit of reviewing lapsed givers
4:55 Scenario forecasting: trailing averages and above, equal, or below budget
6:53 Planning for the upside: what if giving comes in above forecast
7:18 Why the numbers inform the decision but can't make it
7:51 The risk of over-trusting an AI forecast
8:24 Real-world example: giving trends near a military base
9:02 Where human judgment still has the final call
9:29 A budget as guardrails, and the gut check before every major decision
10:20 Trusting what's really happening in people's lives, not just the data
11:20 Recap and this week's challenge: run a lapsed-giver report
11:56 A look at episode 7

In this episode:
Personalization at scale without sounding like a robot
First-time vs. faithful giver: two different tones
Year-end statements that actually get read

This week's challenge: draft one personalized thank-you this week and put these principles to the test.

Subscribe for a new episode every Tuesday, practical tactics for Executive Pastors on staffing, budgeting, AI adoption, and leading well.

More episodes and resources: https://executivepastor.io

Timeline:
0:00 Intro
1:06 When did a first-time giver last get a real thank-you
1:40 Why follow-up is hard to scale, not a lack of caring
2:11 Generosity isn't just a dollar amount: the Chris Stolal story
3:31 A thank-you note as part of the disciple-making process
4:19 The caution: don't sound like a form letter
5:10 Feeding AI the specifics: name, gift, fund, and personal history
6:06 Where personalization crosses the line into creepy
7:37 First-time giver vs. faithful giver: two different tones
8:48 Building AI prompt templates by giving history
9:08 Letting AI teach you as you go
9:43 Fixing year-end statements: more than tax numbers
10:47 Keep it authentic, and don't skip the review step
10:55 Recap, this week's challenge, and a look at episode 6

In this episode:

• Why decisions get made in meetings but die in someone's notes app instead of getting done
• Choosing an AI notetaker: accuracy, calendar integration, and where your meeting data actually gets stored
• The consent conversation: telling your team a meeting is being recorded, every time, and knowing when to turn it off
• Real tool comparisons from Doug and Bart's own use (Zoom, Calendly's notetaker, and other options)
• Getting action items out of a transcript and into your actual task system, not just a summary nobody reopens
• The one habit that fixes accountability: reviewing last meeting's action items at the start of the next one, every time

This week's challenge: use an AI notetaker on your next meeting and send a structured summary with owners and due dates within the hour.

Subscribe for a new episode every Tuesday, practical tactics for Executive Pastors on staffing, budgeting, AI adoption, and leading well.

More episodes and resources: https://executivepastor.io

Timeline:
0:00 Intro and the frustration of repeating the same meeting
0:44 How many decisions from last week's meeting actually got done
1:22 Why decisions die: nobody writes them down clearly
1:54 Fixing it with AI transcription and clean action lists
2:53 Choosing an AI notetaker: accuracy, calendar integration, data storage
4:00 The consent conversation and a team recording policy
4:48 Doug and Bart's real notetaker comparisons (Zoom, Calendly, and more)
7:30 Getting action items into your task management system
8:30 Why summaries nobody reopens make the problem worse
9:00 The fix: review last meeting's action items at the start of every meeting
9:48 Recap and a look at episode 5

In this episode:

1. The reusable prompt template for church comms
2. Repurposing one message into five formats
3. Review-and-personalize: the human step you can't skip

This week's challenge: build one reusable prompt template with your team and use it on your next multi-channel announcement.

Subscribe for a new episode every Tuesday, practical tactics for Executive Pastors on staffing, budgeting, AI adoption, and leading well.

More episodes and resources: https://executivepastor.io

Timeline:
0:00 Intro
0:47 Why church staff are already leaning into AI
1:08 The real cost: writing the same message five different ways
1:41 What a prompt is, and the goal for this episode
2:21 The prompt framework: audience, purpose, key facts, tone, length, one CTA
3:39 Saving and reusing templates across your team
4:06 The one-to-many method: write the longest version first
4:58 Turning one draft into five formats
6:17 The step you can't skip: review and personalize
7:54 This week's challenge and a look at episode 4
8:46 Outro

In this episode, Doug Parks and Bart Rendel (co-founders of Intentional Churches) walk through a practical one-page AI policy outline you can draft before the episode is even over. You'll learn what should never go into a prompt (and the simple "postcard test" to teach your staff), when to disclose that AI was involved in a communication, and how to build green light, red light, and caution lists that free your team to use AI instead of freezing them.

Plus: why the AI companies themselves are racing to put policies in place, and what recent stories of models "breaking out" mean for how carefully churches should handle their data.

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Cold open: even the AI companies are racing to write policies 
00:33 What percentage of churches actually have an AI policy? 
01:30 The risk: executive pastors will be cleaning up AI messes for years 
02:12 Bart's icebreaker: everyone on your team is already using it 
03:23 The goal: a one-page AI policy you can draft today 
03:33 Policy item #1: what to NEVER paste into a prompt 
04:15 What GPT actually stands for, and why your data trains the model 04:56 The postcard test: if you wouldn't mail it, don't prompt it 
05:43 When AI "breaks out": recent stories and why caution matters 06:43 Policy item #2: disclosure, when to tell people AI was involved 07:45 The embarrassment test: if admitting it would embarrass you, don't use it 
07:54 Policy item #3: green light, red light, and caution lists 
09:20 "Ones and zeros": once it's digitized, it's out there 
10:24 Recap + your challenge: write your AI policy this week 
10:58 Resources at executivepastor.io

Executive Pastor resources: https://executivepastor.io 
Intentional Churches: https://intentionalchurches.com

In this episode

• The "tireless intern" mental model
• Three admin tasks to automate on day one
• Where AI must stay out of the loop