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Living in the Midst of Success 

Day 1 of 3

Guest:                       Tony Dungy

From the series:       Quiet Strength

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Bob:                You've seen the locker room celebrations that take place after somebody's won a big game, right?  Well, last year, when the Indianapolis Colts won the Super Bowl, there was a part of the celebration that most of us didn't get to see.  Here is Indianapolis Colts coach, Tony Dungy.

Tony:              Several of the players came to me and said, "Coach, we've got to finish this the way we always do.  We're waiting to do the prayer."

                        Well, the Super Bowl is so different.  There's so much coverage, the media is in there already, and people are just all over the place, and I just kind of held my hand up and said, "If you would just excuse us and turn the cameras off for three minutes, and let us finish our season the way we always do," and I think the reporters were really baffled because they thought they'd see the champagne and the celebration, and it was really our guys doing what they always do.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll find out today that there is a lot that is different about the kind of football team that Coach Tony Dungy runs.  Stay with us.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today.  Dennis?

Dennis:          Bob, today we're going to talk about the lord of the rings.

Bob:                The movies or the books or …

Dennis:          Neither.

Bob:                Okay.

Dennis:          The lord of the rings, and I happen to know a man who is here in the studio with us who has three rings, and we're going to talk about those three rings.

Bob:                All right. 

Dennis:          Let me see your hands, Coach.

Bob:                Well, he's just got one.

Dennis:          Only one ring is on.

Tony:              Only one ring, the most important ring.

Dennis:          Where's the Super Bowl rings?

Tony:              The Super Bowl rings, actually, both of them I wore for about a month right afterwards.  Everyone wants to see the, and you kind of show them off, and it's exciting, and then after that there's another challenge, so you kind of look forward to winning the next one.

Dennis:          Also, you're only going to allow yourself a month to wear the ring?

Tony:              That's been the history.  Now, if we win another one, maybe I'll bend that rule a little bit.

Dennis:          Well, that's the voice of Coach Tony Dungy, who coached the Indianapolis Colts to the Super Bowl title, and I must mention you have another Super Bowl ring from your time with the Steelers.

Tony:              Right, as a player with the Steelers in 1978 and then last year, 2006, with the Colts.

Dennis:          You've written about the story of your life in a book called "Quiet Strength," and I want to tell you about reading your book, Tony.  Barbara and I had some extended time off.  We actually had a sabbatical.  We've been in ministry for 37 years, and the board of directors of FamilyLife graciously allowed us to take 75 days, Coach.  I hate to say that to a coach who works so hard year 'round, to cause you to stumble.

Tony:              Ten years of vacation time.

Dennis:          But I received a copy, you graciously sent me one, and I read it in about the first 48 hours of my sabbatical, and I have to tell you, it set the tone for my sabbatical and for our time together with the Lord and with one another, because your book is about your journey, and your journey of faith.

                        And I do want to talk about the lord of the rings, and there are those three rings we want to talk about, but I want to take you back to a confrontation you had with Donnie Schell.

Tony:              Okay, yeah.

Dennis:          And how he confronted you about your lack of faith.  Because I believe the quiet strength you write about in your book is really built upon the family you came from and then some key intersections in your life.

Tony:              Absolutely.

Dennis:          And one of them occurred with Donnie.

Tony:              Yes, sure did.  Donnie Schell was my roommate.  He was four years older than me with the Pittsburgh Steelers.  He had gotten saved through a meeting with Dr. Paul Esserman [sp] at chapel before a game – really a neat, on-fire Christian. 

                        So I come to the Steelers as a young rookie, 21 years old, and I get put in with this guy, and it was really life-changing for me because he was one of the first guys that I met that was on fire for the Lord, where you saw it in everything that he did.

                        And he mentored me for a year and a half, and I'm listening to him, reading with him, getting into my Bible, getting in heavy discussions at night, and, all of a sudden, I had an illness coming into my second year.  I had mononucleosis, wasn't able to practice, starting to get frustrated, and he stopped me one day at training camp and said, "You know, you're professing that you believe in God, but I don't see it from your actions, I don't see it from the way you're handling this.  God is trying to find out if He's in first place in your life or your career or football or something else, and that's what this is all about."

          &nb...

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Dealing with Pain 

Day 2 of 3

Guest:                        Tony Dungy

From the series:       Quiet Strength

Bob:                If you've every watched a game where the Indianapolis Colts are playing, and the camera goes to the sidelines, and there's Coach Tony Dungy, and he seems so calm and composed.  Well, the Coach says he hasn't always been like that.  He learned some things from his father.

Tony:              My dad was one of the most composed people that I knew, and he probably had the same personality as me, but when things would happen, he always looked at, "Well, what can I do to make the situation better?"  And sometimes, with us, if it was chewing us out or getting on us or spanking, if that was going to help make it better, he would do that.  But many other times it would be just explain the situation, here is how we need to do it better the next time, and I learned from him, but it took me a long time.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, January 17th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll hear today some of the other ways that the game of football has helped Tony Dungy develop character.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  You know, the last time we had the chance to sit down and talk with our guest today, he was just a pro football coach.  But …

Dennis:          Just?

Bob:                But now he's …

Dennis:          Bob, you know how to insult our guests.

Bob:                Now he's the coach of the Super Bowl Champion Indianapolis Colts, at least for another couple of weeks.  We'll see how that comes out this year.

Dennis:          That's right.

Bob:                And he is the author of the number-one New York Times bestselling book, "Quiet Strength."  He's kind of come up in the world, don't you think?

Dennis:          Yeah.  Coach, you've added a little bit to your resume since the last time Bob and I talked to you.

Tony:              It's amazing.  Now I go through airports, and people do – they recognize you much more because of the Super Bowl, and I think also because of the book, and it's been amazing to me.  But I'm enjoying it.

Bob:                I have to ask a question here, if I can.  The Kansas City game this past year, you know, you threw the red flag on that touchdown thing?  Now, you can't say anything about the refs, can you, without a fine or anything like that?

Tony:              No, you have to be complimentary.

[laughter] 

Bob:                I went back and saw the tape – you went back and saw the tape, right?

Tony:              Yes.

Bob:                We saw the same thing, didn't we?

Tony:              Yeah, I'm confused as to what it actually means to catch a ball now.  I'll have to go back and work on that.

Bob:                I just wanted to make sure I was thinking just along the same lines.

Dennis:          I tried to keep Bob from doing that.  I said, "He's going to get fined.  It's not going to be pleasant."

Tony:              No, I always just say I'm just confused at what it means to catch the ball.  I used to think you had to catch it and hold onto it, but not anymore.

Bob:                Nothing more than that, isn't it?

Dennis:          As we watch you, though, on television on Sunday, walking up and down the sidelines, you just look like this calm, Tom Landry-style coach, who is just enjoying the afternoon watching his team.  But in your book, "Quiet Strength," you mentioned you've got a problem with your temper.  In fact, you said you like to think of it as venting.  Your dad used to think of it as what?

Tony:              Really dumb, not very smart, because you aren't helping the situation.  And I learned a lot about that from him.  My dad was one of the most composed people that I knew, and he probably had the same personality as me, but when things would happen he always looked at, "Well, what can I do to make the situation better?"  And sometimes, with us, if it was chewing us out or getting on us or spanking, if that was going to help make it better, he would do that, but many other times it would be just explain the situation, here is how we need to do it better the next time, and I learned from him, but it took me a long time.  I'm still maturing, and that calm demeanor that you see is not my natural state.

Dennis:          You actually, I think, and back to what Bob tried to trap you into doing here again – you actually questioned a referee's call in the press conference one time and got fined 10 grand?

Tony:              I did.  In 1999, it was the first year of instant replay.  We lost the game, and they told me afterwards that the replay official was wrong, and, you know, I knew the rules, and I did a little venting there, and it didn't help us win the game, it didn't change anything, it cost me $10,000, and I actually apologized to the commissioner.  I said, "I know the rule, I violated that, and I understand the fine."

Bob:                So what do you do when you feel anger today?

Dennis:          Well, now, wait, before you ask that …

Bob:                Okay.

Dennis:          At that point, you heard your father's voice again, right?

Tony:              Very strongly, saying, "Do you feel better?  Did it help the situation?  You vented, you got it off your chest, it didn't help your team win, and you're paying $10,000 to charity."

Bob:                So whe...

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Victories in the Midst of Tragedy 

Day 3 o 3

Guest:                        Tony Dungy

From the series:       Quiet Strength

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Bob:                Tony Dungy, the coach of the Indianapolis Colts, has known tremendous success and joy as a football coach.  He has also known profound loss and suffering as a dad.

Tony:              My pastor in Pittsburgh had a great lesson on that when we were a young married couple.  He said, "You know, James and Peter were in prison, and the church prayed for both, and James got beheaded, and Peter got released."  Both of them were God's will, and we can feel badly for James, and I'm sure they all did, but God had a plan for that, and so that's how I've kind of looked at it – as painful, you never want it to happen, but how can you move on, how can you make the situation better?

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, January 18th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We will hear today how Coach Tony Dungy has dealt with the tragedy of the loss of his son to suicide.  Stay tuned.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.  This is a real treat, isn't it?

Dennis:          It is a real treat.  Coach Tony Dungy joins us again – welcome back, Coach.

Tony:              Thank you very much.  It's great to be with you.

Dennis:          Congratulations, again, on your Super Bowl victory of a year ago, and …

Bob:                I've got my fingers cross for this year, all right?  I don't know if that does any good, but …

Tony:              We'll take it.

Dennis:          We're getting in trouble with listeners because this broadcast is heard in every state across the land.

Bob:                I know, and I grew up …

Dennis:          There are some other people who are fans for other teams, you know.

Bob:                I grew up in St. Louis, so I really don't have anything to cheer for this year, so I'm [inaudible] Colts fans.

[laughter] 

Tony:              Well, we appreciate it.  We'll take them all.

Dennis:          Yeah.  Well, Coach, there is an event that you're a part of and have been a part of for a number of years called the "Super Bowl Breakfast."  My friend, Bill Pugh, and yours as well, along with Athletes in Action, host this on the day before the Super Bowl.  It's a gathering of, I don't know, 1,500, a couple of thousand people, in a magnificent setting, to honor football players who have character, and they give an award called "The Bart Starr Award," which is just a – it's a great event.  I've attended it a couple of times, and a couple of years ago you found yourself on that stage speaking in a situation that you didn't think you would find yourself in whatsoever.  You had helped start a ministry called "All Pro Dad," you were helping dads be better parents, and yet your own son, Jamie, had taken his life.

                        I want you to listen a clip that we have from that breakfast and what you said, and then I want to ask you to take us to what you were thinking and feeling as you made those statements a couple of years ago.

Tony:              [from audiotape.]  But I think the most important lesson that I've learned about the Lord, I learned from my oldest son, James.  As you heard, James would have been 19, but he died right before Christmas.  James was a Christian, and he was, by far, the most sensitive, the most compassionate, of all our boys.  As most teenage boys today, James was getting a lot of messages from the world that maybe that's not the way to be, and he was struggling very much with how you should respond to the world, and he ended up taking his life right before Christmas, and it was tough.  It was very, very painful.

                        But as painful as it was, there were some good things that came out of it.  When I was at the funeral, I talked about one of my biggest regrets.  James was home for Thanksgiving and was leaving and going back to school and going back to work, and just the normal process.  You don't think about it.  I said, "Hey, I'll see you later."  My daughter took him to the airport, we just exchanged, "See you later," and that was the last time I saw him. 

                        I talked to him on the phone a lot, but never saw him again, and I shared at the funeral that my biggest regret was that I didn't give him a big hug the very last time I saw him.

                        I met a guy the next day after the funeral, and he said, "You know, I was there, I heard you talking, I took off work today, I called my son, and I said, 'I'm going to take you to the movies, and we're going to spend some time and go to dinner.'"  That was a real, real blessing to me.

                        We were able to donate some of James' organs to Organ Donors program.  We got a letter back about two weeks ago that two people had received his corneas and now can see.  We got a letter from a girl in our church who had grown up with James, and she said, "We've been going to the same church in Tampa for all these years.  I sat there in church every Sunday but never really knowing if there was a God or not.  I came to the funeral because I knew James.  When I saw what happened at the funeral, and your family and how it was handled, that was the first time I realized there has to be a God, and I accepted Christ into my life, and my life's been different since that day."

                        [applause] 

                        And that was an awesome blessing.  So all those things have kind of made me realize what God's love is all about.  But here is the biggest part of that – if God had had a conversation with me and said, "I can help some peo...

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript

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Life in Spite of Me

Day 1 of 3

Guest:                           Kristen Jane Anderson

From the Series:         On the Edge of Hopelessness

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Bob:  Kristen Jane Anderson was 17 years old and was ready for life…to be over.  When she heard a ‘Freight Train’ approaching at the park where she was sitting; she decided to lay her body across the tracts.

Kristen:  When the train stopped I wasn’t sure if I was alive or dead.  I remember just opening my eyes and unclenching my fists and starting to look around because I didn’t know what to think.  I didn’t know what it was like to die!  Obviously I just had no idea what to think. 

 When I was looking around, I looked behind me; to my right…and I saw my legs about 10 feet behind me on my right.   

Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, September 8th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife and I am Bob Lepine.   Kristen Jane Anderson joins with us today to share a remarkable story of survival and of faith.

And welcome to FamiyLife Today!  Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. We are going to hear a remarkable story today.  A story of where there is hope!   Actually to start things off, I want to read a Bible verse.  This is one of my favorite Bible verses.

Dennis:  I would feel better if you had a real Bible opened; I mean, instead of reading it off your iphone.

Bob:  I love carrying this around.

Dennis:  You do!  You really do!  You get a grin on your face when you scroll down to the passage

Bob: It is a little awkward when I am up front in my church reading from my iphone, but it is….

Dennis:  You do it there too? 

Bob:  Yeah!  This is the way I read my Bible now.  And I love it!  

Dennis:  Okay! 

Bob:  1 Peter 2:9 says, “You are a chosen race a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession …. ‘(And this is the part that I love)’ …….that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.”

I think the story we are going to hear about this week is one of those out of darkness into marvelous light stories.

Dennis:  I think you are right, Bob, and I think that our listeners; regardless if they are dealing with something troubling or challenging in their lives right now or rather if things are going well, they need to hear this story.  It is the story of a young lady who joins us on FamilyLife Today, Kristen Jane Anderson, joins us today on FamilyLife Today.  Kristen, welcome to the broadcast!

Kristen:  Thank you for having me on.

Dennis:  Kristen is a graduate of Moody, almost; right?  

Kristen:  Right! 

Dennis:  Almost a graduate of Moody Bible Institute!  She is a popular speaker to college students and women’s events all around the country.  She has been featured on Oprah, which we had some fun talking about before we came on the air here.

Bob:  She was comparing you and Oprah …wasn’t she?

Dennis:  She was!  She was! She was…. And you actually asked her, “which was a bigger treat, to be on our broadcast …… or her (Oprah) TV program?

Bob:  And let’s move on shall we?

Dennis:  She has written a book called, Life In Spite of Me.  I am just going to cut right to the chase here.   Kristen, I am going to ask you to take us to January 2.  You were in a park and it was dark and it was icy cold there and it was the most dramatic day of your life.

Kristen:  Yes!  I was at the park and I was there because I didn’t feel like I could go home.  I didn’t want to go home.  I didn’t want to get in trouble and I thought I was going to disappoint my parents again.  I was at the park just kind of trying to waste time and to figure out what I was going to do next and I was swinging on the swings and as I was there I started to think about why I was there.  

Why did I feel like I couldn’t go home?  Why did I feel the way that I did inside?  I was struggling and then I remembered that in the park that I was in that you were supposed to be out of the park after the sun goes down.  I knew that the police come and patrol the park and if you’re in the park after dark they make you leave.  

The reason I was there is that I didn’t want to go home, so I looked around to see where else I could go and I saw that there had been a set of train cars parked on the edge of the park.  I knew that they had been there for about 3 weeks.  I walked over to the train cars and I sat on one of them.  Then I started to think about a thought process that I had had about 3 months beforehand.  It was after one of my friends had taken his life.  He had taken his life by hanging himself in the cemetery.

Dennis:  You were 17 years of age?

Kristen:  Right!  I had no idea how to handle it and I didn’t understand it.  I remember thinking, “I don’t know how he could ever do that.  How could he ever take his life?”  And then I thought, “I don’t know how he could do it the way that he did it, especially that way.”  

But then my thought process changed and I started to think, “Well if I was ever going to do it, how would I do it?”  I went through a lot of different things in my mind that I had heard about in school or on TV; different ways people try to end their lives and none of them seemed like they would work or be good enough, until I heard the train go by my parent’s house. 

 I heard the whistle blow and I felt the house just kind of shake.  I could feel the power of the train and I thought, “That is one way that I would never live through it.”  It just kind of snapped in my mind and I never...

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Life in Spite of Me

Day 2 of 3

Guest:                             Kristen Jane Anderson

From the Series:         A Flicker of Hope

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Bob:   When she was 17 years old, Kristen Jane Anderson sought to end her life by lying across a railroad track as the train was approaching.  Miraculously, she survived; although her legs were severed.  She was soon to realize that God had a purpose for her life.  

Kristen:  Three months after I lost my legs, I was out of the hospital.  We went back to church that Sunday.  A woman came up to me who had heard about what happened to me.  She told me that I would have gone to hell if I died.  It was very difficult at the time, but I am very grateful that she was that bold at the time because it helped me see my need for Him.  It helped me think about where I would have gone eternally.  “If I had died, where would I go?”  I had never thought about it more than at that time in my life.

Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, September 9th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey, and I’m Bob Lepine.  Kristen Jane Anderson joins us today to share a story of beauty from ashes and redemption from tragedy.  

Welcome to FamilyLife Today; thanks for joining us.  I have read the statistics about teenage suicide, about teens who overdose on a handful of pills from the medicine cabinet or who do violence to themselves in some way to take their own lives.

Dennis:  Right.

Bob:  I don’t know that I have ever heard a story like the one we are hearing this week.

Dennis:  Yes.  We have a guest with us this week who is willing to tell a profound story, quite a drama.  Kristen Jane Anderson joins us on FamilyLife Today.  Welcome back.

Kristen:  Thank you.

Dennis:  Kristen, you have written a book called Life, In Spite of Me.  As our listeners heard earlier, that really is an understatement.  A lot of things had taken place in your life that had left you hopeless, right?

Kristen:  Yes.  A lot of things happened.  

Dennis:  Yes.  Your father was struggling from depression as you grew up as a little girl and as a teenager.  You had three friends, as a teenager, who lost their lives—one to suicide.  You had a couple of guys stalking you—one who raped you.  You were hopeless and no one knew it.  

Kristen:  No.  My family especially knew something was wrong with me because it wasn’t in my character to not come home when I was supposed to.  I had started drinking and smoking and things like that.  That wasn’t anything I had done before.  I also stopped playing soccer.  That was something that I loved to do, and so they knew something was wrong with me.  They just didn’t know how much was wrong inside and how I was feeling.

Bob:  You say they knew something was wrong.  If you were to look back and say, “There had been something going back in my heart and soul for a month...three months...six months.”  What?

Kristen:  I think that it was a lot going on that whole period of time, but I think the last six months before my attempt were the worst.  I think I just kind of died inside.  I didn’t care about my life or anything anymore.  I drove around hoping somebody would hit me.  I wanted my life to end.  I didn’t want to take it, though.  

People would ask me how I was doing.  I would say, “I’m here.’  Kind of like, “Isn’t that good enough?”  I had just a much more negative and a little bit of a bitter attitude.  That wasn’t my normal demeanor, but at the same time I still had a smile on my face.  So people really were confused.

Bob:  Here it is the second day of the New Millennium, January 2, 2000.  It is a cold day.  You left the house, sitting in a park, just thinking about life.  The impulse—really—it was an impulse hits you. 

Dennis:  Yes.  I want to make a comment about that because I have read this before that a number of suicides that occur among young people are done, not in a sense of really thinking it through, but just deciding at the spur of the moment.

Kristen:  Right.  For me, it was.  I could never have made that as a rational decision.  If I was going to do it, it would have had to be impulsive.  I think that most people would think that way.  I think most kids, especially.  They know that suicide is wrong.  They can never rationalize it enough to think it is okay or it is right.

Bob:  You didn’t think about writing a note saying, “It’s all over.”  You didn’t have time.

Kristen:  No.  I didn’t have time and I wasn’t worried about other people.  I was in a very selfish place.

Bob:  So you went and laid across the railroad tracks with a train coming.  Did the conductor see you dive across the tracks?

Kristen:  Yes.  The police report says that the conductor said to the engineer, “Did you see that yellow flash?”  The engineer said to the conductor, “Yes. I think we just hit someone.”  The yellow flash that they saw was this yellow jacket that I had on—my winter coat.

Dennis:  It was a new coat that you had just gotten for Christmas was it, or was that the jeans you had gotten?

Kristen:  Right.  The coat was new; the shoes were new.  All of it was new actually.  

Bob:  So you dove across the tracks.  The conductor, the engineer said, “I think we just hit somebody.”  They put on the brakes, brought the train to a stop?

Kristen:  Yes.  Then they called 911.

Bob:  And came back finding you lying on the tracks, legs severed—one below the knee and the other...

Kristen:  They didn’t come to find me, but the paramedics found me.

Bob:  Okay.  

Kristen:  Yes, but with my legs severed.  

Bob:  You have already shared with us this week that you were in record-time taken to the nearest hospital in yo...

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript

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Life in Spite of Me

Day 3 of 3

Guest:                          Kristen Jane Anderson

From the Series:         And Then God...

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Bob:  At age 17, Kristen Jane Anderson survived a suicide attempt.  Today, more than ten years later, she has a powerful message for those who find themselves in despair.

Kristen:  If you’re struggling with pain in your life or with suicidal thoughts or with depression, I want you to know that there’s a reason you are here, that God created you for a purpose.  No matter what you’re going through, it’s temporary.  You’re not alone.  

He has tremendous plans for us, every single one of us.  Nobody is an accident including you.  There is a reason you’re here.  So, I just want to encourage you to hold on, to seek God with all of your heart, and I know that you will find Him.  He will bring you out of the depths of despair like he has me.

Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, September 10th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey and I'm Bob Lepine.  Kristen Anderson joins us today to give a reason for the hope that is within her. 

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  We’ve been hearing a remarkable story of God’s redeeming work in the heart and the life of a young woman this week.  A young woman who attempted suicide by laying across railroad tracks, and miraculously, God spared her life.  

But, I’m just thinking, here we are at a point in the unfolding of this story where all of a sudden, life has meaning and purpose, joy and hope.  There’s just this one bummer, and that is, “I don’t have legs anymore.”  I don’t mean to sound crass or trivial about it but…

Dennis:  It’s the result of what took place.

Bob:  Here is hope re-dawning but, I’m in a wheelchair with no legs.  Life is going to be very different from here on out because of a decision I made—an impulsive decision—trying to end my own life.

Dennis:  Well, that young lady joins us again on FamilyLife Today; she’s the author of the book, Life in Spite Of Me.  Kristen Jane Anderson joins us again on FamilyLife Today, Kristen welcome back.  I just have to tell you, I really appreciate your willingness to go back and revisit some very painful moments both emotionally and physically as you shared about that attempt at suicide.

Kristen:  Thank you; I really appreciate you having me on.

Dennis:  I wanted to ask you, just as you have processed the loss of your legs like Bob is talking about here, people who lose a limb experience what’s called “phantom pain”? 

Kristen:  Yes.

Dennis:  Or they have the feeling, the phantom is as though their legs are still there?

Kristen:  Right.

Dennis:  Do you experience that?

Kristen:  Yes. I always feel like my legs are still there.  It’s really interesting.  It’s not like they feel normal or anything.  But it feels like they’re still there.  It’s very interesting.

Bob:  Are there times you’ll wake up in the middle of the night and without stopping to think about it, think “I’ll just swing my legs out and get up out of bed”?

Kristen:  Not as often as I used to.  In the beginning I used to always be really surprised by my wheelchair next to my bed.  But now I’m pretty used to it.  Every once in a while I’ll think, “I want to go for a run.”  Or something like that, that I can’t do any more.

Bob:  The thing that I keep thinking about here is, at a point when your life experienced a radical transformation, you trusted Christ, you began to understand what it means to follow Him and to give your life to Him, and you’re a new creation in Christ.  The thing is, the old you had legs, the new you doesn’t.  

Kristen:  Right.

Bob:  How do you process that?

Kristen:  The thing that helped me the most was learning that I was whole in Christ, whether or not I had legs isn’t what made me whole.  He was more than enough for all of me, I didn’t need anything more.  The more that I trusted Him, and I put my faith in Him, the more I just felt whole.  I realized I was going to fine without my legs.  I was going to be fine as long as I had Him.  I didn’t need them as much as I needed Him.

Dennis:  You said before we came into the studio, that you’ve been working with—is it a physician who creates prosthetics?

Kristen:  Yes, he’s called a prosthetist.

Dennis:  You’ve been working with him for four years?

Kristen:  Longer actually.

Dennis:  Actually longer than that?  Yet, it’s interesting to see your demeanor.  You have some opinions about why they have not been able to fit you with legs at this point.

Kristen:  Yes.  I’m a difficult case to fit.  But I think that everything happens for a reason, and I think there’s a reason I’m not walking now.  As I’ve tried to think through that, pray through that and see what the reasons might be, I feel like, it’s just not God’s time yet.  I think that He has used my story and me in a way that he had planned to use it with me in my wheelchair.  

It has also taught me a tremendous amount of patience, and it has made me a lot more humble for me to be in my wheelchair.

Dennis:  I’m listening to you say that, and I’m flashing back to the story of January 2nd, 2000, when you were draped across the railroad tracks and described something supernaturally, almost pushing you down as the train ran over you.  Even though your legs were severed, you lost them.  The condition of the young lady who had laid down on that track was without hope.

Kristen:  Right.

Dennis:  … had no purpose.

Kristen:  Right

Dennis:  The woman today who has no legs has a mission.  She’s on a mission.  You’re smiling.  There are a lot of people who would say “I don’t get that.  How can you smile about that?  Do you really believe that G...

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Aftershock:  Hope, Help, Healing in the Wake of Suicide

Day 1 of 3

Guest:                         David Cox

From the Series:      A Survivor's Look at Suicide

________________________________________________________________

Bob:                There is a memory from childhood that David Cox will never lose.

David:             My dad got in his car and as he was driving away, I hollered over the noise of the lawnmower, "Dad, where are you going?"  Expecting his familiar reply, "Going crazy, want to come along?"  And, very oddly, he said, "I have somewhere I have to go."  And that was the first time I realized something was not quite right.  And as he drove just a very small distance, he stopped the car and turned and looked back at me one last time, almost as if a man who is drowning and is reaching out for someone to rescue him.  And that was the last time I ever saw my father alive.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, July 7th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  How do you help a family member deal with the reality of suicide?  We'll talk about it today.  Stay with us.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  I remember two occasions when I was in high school, Dennis, where I was confronted with the reality of what we're going to be talking about today.  There was a classmate in my high school.  He was in the same grade I was in, and I don't know the details, don't know what surrounded it, but I remember the news that came to us that our classmate had taken his life; he had committed suicide.  

                        And then I had a friend who -- she actually lived three doors down, and she was dating a friend of mine.  Again, I don't remember how I got the news, but one day I learned that he father had gone into the basement of their home and had taken his own life.  And when you're confronted with the reality of suicide, you really don't know how to respond, how to react.  You don't know how to help folks.  It's a troubling, confusing time for those of us who are on the outside, and it must be incredibly confusing and painful for those who are right in the midst of it.

Dennis:          Yes, in fact, you and I received an e-mail from a listener who, just a couple of weeks ago, wrote us, and she writes, "Good morning.  Our family has suffered a tragic loss recently.  My 15-year-old son has taken his life just a few days ago.  May I please ask for your prayers for my family?  I'm a single mom of two other teens as well.  Do you have any other resources of godly guidance that I might read to help us through this process?"  She goes on and say, "My son was depressed, and we were actively participating in community resources for his help and treatments.  It seemed as though we were turning a corner, and he was getting better.  I admit that I do not understand this, and I am at a loss.  Thank you very much."

                        You know, unfortunately, Bob, I think by the time you live to be 30 or 40, you're going to be touched by the subject of suicide today, perhaps not through your own family, but through a friend or an acquaintance at work or in the community.  This is a growing problem in our culture, and we decided to do some research as to who had really written on this subject and who could help us create some tools and resources for you, as a listener, to be able to reach out to people who perhaps are survivors of a suicide, perhaps your mom or dad committed suicide when you were a child, or you know of someone who has lost a family member or a friend due to suicide.  And we ran across a book called "Aftershock," and it's co-authored by Candy Arrington and Dr. David Cox, and David joins us here on the broadcast.  David, welcome to FamilyLife Today.

David:             Thank you, Dennis.  It's a pleasure to be here.

Dennis:          David is a marriage and family counselor in Spartanburg, South Carolina.  He is a graduate of Wofford College, and has his MDiv, along with his Doctorate of Minister degrees from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina, and you actually -- David, you did your study when you did your doctoral work in this area of suicide prevention, right?

David:             Yes, I did, Dennis.  My doctoral thesis was more intervention.  It was counseling and suicide intervention, hoping to sort of meet the problem on the front end and see if we could make a difference in folks as they are depressed and becoming suicidal.  The book, "Aftershock:  Help, Hope, and Healing in the Wake of Suicide," is really more of a survivor's book, because we really saw that there was a much greater need for something like this, sadly, after folks have been through it.

Bob:                Your interest in this subject was not purely clinical, but it's because you are, yourself, a survivor of suicide.

David:             I am, Bob, and by "survivor of suicide" we mean a surviving loved one, family member or friend, after someone has completed suicide.  It does not necessarily refer to someone who has survived a suicide attempt on their own.

Bob:                In your case, your father committed suicide when you were nine years old.  Were you aware, prior to his suicide, that there were things in his life that could be leading him in that direction?

David:             None whatsoever, and not just because I was nine years old, but I think our entire family was oblivious to the trouble that he was in emotionally.  Now, of course, looking back, we could see that he had changed jobs three times in a two-year period; we had a home in Richmond, Virginia, which would not sell; my mother had recently gone through breast cancer surgery; my father had mounting debt; my two sisters were in college at the time; he was very depressed.  He had had some medical problems, and so he very much fit the profile for someone who is suicidal.  But, as many families are -- most families are -- we were completely caught offguard by his suicide.

Dennis:          You know, as a nine-year-old boy, your world is that of a boy, not thinking about how is Dad doing, how is Mom doing?  And yet one day you were mowing the lawn, and you looked up, and your dad got in his 1966 Mustang, and you asked him where he was going.  What did he say?

David:          ...

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Aftershock:  Hope, Help, Healing in the Wake of Suicide

Day 2 of 3

Guest:                            David Cox

From the Series:         Understanding the Suicidal Mind

________________________________________________________________

Bob:                Suicide among teenagers is disproportionately high.  As a parent, are there things to stay alert for?  Here is David Cox.

David:             The average teenager who becomes suicidal is above average in intelligence, is usually an over-achiever, might be a bit of a perfectionist, and, certainly, if you know what to look for, you can spot it.

                        The problem is that most teens talk to their friends more than they talk to mom and dad.  So it might be a good friend that hears about it first.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, July 8th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll offer some strategies and suggestions today for parents who might think a child is suicidal.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  I wonder if, in a Bible quiz, you could ask what do these people have in common, and if folks would know -- Abimelech, and Samson, King Saul, Saul's armor-bearer, Judas Iscariot -- what do those people have in common?  And the interesting thing that ties all of them together is that all of them are biblical examples of people who took their own lives.

Dennis:            And, Bob, this subject today is a growing concern for every parent and, for that matter, our entire culture, because suicide, in general, in the population as a whole, has increased about 40 percent since 1960.  But among teenagers, it is today the leading cause of death.  Now, think about that.  For all of the concerns we have about how our kids drive and issues of drugs and alcohol, the number-one cause of death today in teenagers is suicide.

                        And I don't know of many parents who raise a teen all the way through the process who don't at one point or another worry a little bit about a child who withdraws or becomes a little depressed about what's going on in life.  And so we looked around for a heaven-class resource for you, as a listener and your family, and found Dr. David Cox, who is a marriage and family counselor from Spartanburg, South Carolina.  David, welcome back.

David:             Thank you, Dennis.  It's good to be here.

Dennis:            And David himself is a personal survivor of suicide.  His father committed suicide when he was nine years old, and David has done his postgraduate work in the area of counseling and suicide intervention and prevention, and we're grateful that, David, you've written a book called "Aftershock," along with Candy Arrington -- "Help, Hope, and Healing in the Wake of Suicide."  And I have to ask you here at the start -- why does an individual take his life or her life?  What's at the bottom of that?

David:             I'm not sure anyone has ever really come up with an answer for that.  Because for someone to be at that point, they are in such a place of despair that anyone who has never been there really cannot understand what that feels like.  The common theme is hopelessness -- a sense that my problems will never get any better.  Many people who are suicidal are under the myth that their family members would be better off without them.  How tragic and how untrue that is.

Bob:                Most of us have seen the Christmastime classic movie, "It's a Wonderful Life," where George Bailey finds himself facing financial ruin, despair, hopelessness.  He comes home, the kids are driving him crazy, and he realizes that there's going to be great shame brought upon the family, and he grabs that life insurance policy and heads to the bridge and thinks, "I'd be better off dead.  Everybody would be better off.  It would be better for everyone else if I'd never been born." 

                        It's interesting how that movie has become such a dominant part of the culture, even as we tend not to talk about suicide, we can all resonate, at some level, with what's going on in his soul, can't we?

David:             We can, and I keep a copy of that movie on video in my desk to give out to very special people who I know that movie will speak to them in a very powerful way.  I've only been able to watch that movie one time because it is so moving and so poignant.

Dennis:            I've heard it said that suicide is the most selfish act a human being ever commits, and I think I would used to have said I would have subscribed to that, having been near some situations and some families where that had occurred.  But then I hurt my neck one time digging some holes, and actually slipped a disk, number seven, and the pain was so intense, I could not get away from it.  I would be driving down the road with my head cockeyed, trying to get it at an angle to reduce the pressure on that disk, and I began to get a little depressed, and the pain began to define my life to such a degree I went to see a physician.  I said, "Cut on me.  I don't care how long the sword is.  Open me up and …

Bob:                … take care of this thing …

Dennis:            … fix the pain.  And I've since reflected back on that experience.  I didn't have to have surgery.  I was able to rehab it and do some exercises that got me through it, but I've thought often -- you know what?  When someone's in pain, and your life is defined by pain, I know it is selfish to want to be out from under that pain, but I'm not sure it's fair to characterize a man like your father who took his own life when you were nine years old as being selfish.  What would you say about that?

David:             I agree with that completely, Dennis.  It is about self, but it's not selfish in the ways that we think of that word -- self-indulgent or me first or I want my needs met.  In many ways, for the suicidal mind, it is almost an act of self-sacrifice.  I believe in my father's case, he really believed that because of the magnitude of our financial problems, the only way out was his life insurance.  So in his mind, as flawed as that was, and as much as we would have glad to have had him I lieu of any money that his death might have brought to...

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Aftershock:  Hope, Help, Healing in the Wake of Suicide

Day 3 of 3

Guest:                         David Cox

From the Series:      The Survivors

________________________________________________________________

Bob:                A friend, a family member, or a loved one commits suicide.  Those of us who continue to live often aren't sure how to deal with the reality.  Here's David Cox.

David:             There are two things you don't want to do -- you don't want to just slap a Band-Aid on it and pretend like it's not there -- just cover it up and hope it will go away.  The other thing is you don't so completely focus on the problem that you neglect the healing.  There's a middle ground that we need to arrive at where we talk about it, we bring it out in the light, because there are many more redeeming qualities about this person than to simply focus on the way they die is to misunderstand what their life represented.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, July 9th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.   How do you deal openly and honestly with the reality of suicide when someone you love takes his life?

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  Dennis?

Dennis:          Bob, we receive a lot of letters and e-mails from our listeners, and one got my attention from a radio listener, and I'll just read it.  She says, "Yesterday our pastor committed suicide.  I have a two-year-old son and a six-year-old daughter.  What do I tell them?  Several parents are also asking me for advice.  Our church is having a congregational meeting tomorrow night.  Your advice and prayers would be appreciated."

                        You know, what she is talking about is a family that has been impacted by another person's suicide, and they have a unique set of needs to know how to process, as those who are left behind, the living, and how to coach and guide and help their children and family know how to cope in the absence of someone they loved.

Bob:                That's a subject that we are dealing with this week on the program, and we have got a guest who is helping us do that from Spartanburg, South Carolina.  His name is Dr. David Cox.  David, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.

David:             Thank you so much.

Bob:                Our listeners who have heard your story know that you have had to deal personally with the impact of a successful suicide.  Your father took his life when you were nine years old, and you have continued not only to look at this subject personally but also professionally.  You are a counselor today, and I know that this is one issue that emerges for you over and over again as you deal with folks who are in the wake of a suicide.  And you describe this interestingly in a book you've written called "Aftershock."  You say that any of us who have had the experience of losing a filling know that you almost can't help but have your tongue keep going to the spot where the filling used to be, and every time you do it's painful, but there is this strange attraction there.  You say for a person in the wake of a suicide, you almost find yourself going repeatedly to that same pain.  It's like you can't avoid it.

David:             Because there are no good answers.  Why did this happen?  Why did they choose this?  And no matter how many times you go there, you never come away with anything that resolves the anger, the guilt, the shame, what if we had done the right thing?  What if we had seen these problems coming?

Bob:                Does someone who is a friend or a family member of a suicide victim -- do they just have to resign themselves to the fact that there are going to be unanswered questions for the rest of your life and kind of get past that and move on?

David:             You have to move on, because you will become paralyzed and immobilized by the guilt and the questions if we're not careful.  Dennis, you mentioned the church where the pastor had taken his life, and I can tell you some things they don't need to do right now -- they don't need to cover this up.  They don't need to deny how this man died.  We need to use The Word, it needs to be talked about, we need to talk about the wonderful things that this pastor did and the way he lived his life for the Lord, and it's a very difficult but necessary thing to talk to these children that are survivors.  And when we use the term survivor of suicide, we are referring to those left behind after a successful suicide attempt.

Bob:                So you're saying that in the same way that you might eulogize or memorialize a person who died in a car wreck or who died from a terminal disease -- we should have that same philosophical approach to someone who takes his own life?

David:             I believe so, because there are many more redeeming qualities about this person than -- to simply focus on the way they died is to misunderstand what their life represented. 

Dennis:          That's a difficult assignment, though.  I know of a friend who described a suicide in his family as though it was a ripple effect; that it affected and infected the entire family and continues, even to this day, to impact their family and how they're raising their children, because suicide has been introduced into the family vocabulary.  They are now wondering if their elementary children are thinking about suicide; they're wondering if their teenagers are more likely to contemplate suicide.  It changes the genetic structure of the family, doesn't it?

David:             Well, you use the word "infect."  What do you do with an infection?  There are two things you don't want to do.  You don't want to just slap a Band-Aid on it and pretend like it's not there -- just cover it up and hope it will go away.  The other thing is, you don't so completely focus on the infection and on the problem that you neglect the healing.  There's a middle ground that we need to arrive at where we talk about it.  We bring it out in the light; we call it for what it is; we even call it sin, because anything that is not of faith is a sin and, certainly, that's not an act of faith.  It's an act of fear, it's an act of desperation.  It's someone who is obviously in a very desperate situation.

Bob:         ...

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Complicated Grief

Guest:                         Albert Hsu                 

From the series:       Grieving a Suicide (Day 1 of 2)

Bob: When a friend or a loved one chooses suicide, we can’t help but ask, “Why did this happen?” Albert Hsu experienced that when his father took his own life. 

Al: The search for answers to the “Why?” questions is really a search for comfort. We’re wondering, “Are we alone in the universe now?” We feel abandoned by our loved one—our child, our parent, our spouse—that has left in this way. It feels like this tremendous rejection, because they chose to leave. They didn’t just get hit by a truck; they weren’t taken by cancer—they chose to abandon us or leave us in this way, so it feels like this tremendous rejection. 

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, October 4th. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I’m Bob Lepine. So, what do we do with those questions that continue to plague us when a friend or a loved one takes his own life? We’re going to explore that today with Albert Hsu. 

1:00

Stay with us. 

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. As you were just praying about today’s program, you talked about, “This is a delicate subject.” That’s what it is; isn’t it? 

Dennis: It really is. I don’t think we realize how prevalent this is, in both the community of faith but also in the culture. I think Christians really need to grapple with this and have an answer to know how to best connect with both—people of faith, who’ve been impacted by suicide, or by those who are outside—

Bob: Yes. 

Dennis: —the faith. 

I want to read this quote, Bob. Dr. Jean Twenge of San Diego State University suggested that screen and social media time may have caused a jump in depression and suicide among American young people. 

2:00

“I think the reality is screens have caused us to be even lonelier—

Bob: Yes. 

Dennis: —“than we were before they came.” 

Bob: And loneliness and disconnectedness from other people is one of those factors that may go into somebody deciding that it’s not worth continuing to live. 

Dennis: That’s right. And isolation is not a good state to be in; I mean, you need relationships. 

Bob: Yes. 

Dennis: You need to be connected to people. Well, we have a guest with us today on the broadcast. Al Hsu joins us all the way from Chicago. Al, welcome to—to FamilyLife Today. 

Al: Thanks for having me. 

Dennis: Al is married to Ellen since 1997—has two sons, lives in Chicago, and is the senior editor of InterVarsity Press. Bob and I are grateful for your work with IVP, because of your editing skills. [Laughter] Any author needs an editor; no doubt about it. 

3:00

He has written a book—and I’ve got to ask you: “What’s it like to write your own book and have somebody else edit it?” or “Did you let anybody edit it?” 

 Al: Oh, yes; every editor needs an editor as well. 

 Dennis: Okay; glad you confessed that, here, on the radio—probably some of your colleagues are listening in and will remind you about that. 

Al has written a book called Grieving a Suicide: A Loved One’s Search for Comfort, Answers & Hope. Your life changed because of a phone call. 

Al: That’s right. When I was about in my mid-20s, I got a phone call one Thursday morning. My wife and I had just gotten married nine months prior. We were young newlyweds. We were living in Chicago. My parents were in Minnesota, and we were about to visit them the following weekend. We were going to be visiting friends in Minnesota for a wedding, and we were going to stop in and see my folks; but then, Thursday morning, before work, the phone rang. 

I couldn’t guess: “Why somebody would be calling that early in the morning?” I got the phone, and I heard wailing on the other side. 

4:00

I didn’t know what this was—it was somebody crying/wailing. She said: “Daddy killed himself! Daddy killed himself!” It was my mother, and I—I just didn’t register. I didn’t understand what she was saying. “Daddy? Daddy? Daddy who? My dad?” 

To back up, my dad was 58 years old. He was an electrical engineer, PhD, brilliant man, always very self-sufficient, self-made kind of a guy; but three months prior to this, he had had a stroke. While he survived the stroke—he was doing some rehab and making some recovery—he fell into a clinical depression. Over those three months since the stroke, he didn’t see any purpose for life. He lost all sense of hope. My mom had gotten him to the hospital for observation; but even so, one night, he went into his room, asked not to be disturbed, and took his own life.

5:00

Dennis: Were you—were you in shock at that point? 

Al: Yes; all the textbook definitions of shock—I went numb; I couldn’t process things. When people hear this kind of news—it’s what counselors call complicated grief or complicated bereavement, because we are actually dealing with two different things at once. We are both experiencing the grief of the loss, but we’re also experiencing trauma. A loss by suicide is traumatic and causes trauma—almost in the extent of a war experience—think of soldiers with PTSD. It’s that kind of violent experience that just completely shakes your world. 

Dennis: I was thinking, as you were telling your story, I received a phone call in 1976—the year we started FamilyLife®—and it was not my mother on the phone; it was my brother. 

6:00

He called me and, almost as bluntly as you described it, said, “Dad’s dead.” He had just been at our home. We had a great time together, working around the house; and I was growing up, as a young man. I was 28 years old, and I was appreciating him more and more. 

It was interesting how—because I thought how much different it would be and the grief I felt if my dad had committed suicide—which he didn’t—but I can imagine it really does complicate the emotional picture for a son like that. 

Al: That’s right. Complicated grief—you’re dealing with two realities at once. It’s...

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Compounded Loss

Guest:                         Albert Hsu                 

From the series:       Grieving a Suicide (Day 2 of 2)

Bob: If you have a friend or a family member, and you’ve been concerned that they might be contemplating self-harm, is there anything you can say or do? Albert Hsu says there is.

Al: The Bible actually gives a great example of suicide prevention. In the Book of Acts—in Acts 16, Paul and Silas are in prison in Philippi. The earthquake happens and they’re released from their chains. The Philippian jailer is about to kill himself, because he knows he’ll be held accountable. He’s drawing his sword—he’s about to take his own life—and Paul cries out: “Don’t harm yourself. We are all here.” He intervenes—he gives him hope; he gives him a reason to live—and the jailer and his whole household come to Christ.

We can do the same. When we see people at risk around us, we can say: “Don’t harm yourself. We are all here. We are here for you,” and “Life is worth living,” and “You don’t have to take this path.”

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Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, October 5th. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We need to be aware and alert to others around us who may be in a season of dark despair, to know how we can help and minister to them. We’ll talk more about that today with our guest, Albert Hsu. Stay with us.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. We’re talking this week about double grief—about the loss of someone we love / the trauma when that loss happens because that person took his or her own life—and then, in some cases, Dennis, the need for the person, who’s going through that double grief, to turn around and be a caregiver to others who are grieving in your family or in your circle. It’s a hard place to be. 

Dennis: It really is, but there is a passage in Paul’s writings to the church at Corinth—

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—he says, “Comfort others with the comfort with which you have been comforted.” God doesn’t want us to waste our grief. He doesn’t want us to feel like it’s minimized either, because there is—I don’t think there is any grief like those who grieve a suicide.

We have the author of a book called Grieving a Suicide, Al Hsu, with us again. Al, welcome back.

Al: Thanks for having me.

Dennis: Your dad took his life how many years ago?

Al: Twenty years now.

Dennis: Twenty years ago. What percent would you say you’re over or you have grieved the loss of your father?

Al: I don’t think any of us ever fully get over anything like this. I was talking to another person, who lost her dad to suicide; and she said, “It’s been 25 years, and I still grieve him every day.” 

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Just this week, actually, I talked to another person who lost a friend in high school to suicide. There were some recent things that had just triggered some memories, and she’s still grieving that particular loss in a very powerful way. It does stay with us for a very long time.

It does change, though, over the years. When I lost my dad in my 20s, I grieved him, as a father, at that stage of life—I wished he would have been there, present, as a dad. But now, 20 years later, I grieve him in my 40s, as the grandfather that my sons have never known. I lament all the birthdays, and celebrations, and family things that he was not part of—that’s another layer of grieving that we do in this era.

Bob: Any of us, who have lost parents, for any reason, experience that level of grief. How is it compounded, do you think, for those when the grieving has a suicide connected to it?

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Al: Suicide heightens and intensifies the regular grief. If it’s a child/teenager that dies by suicide, what would already be a very sad teen death is heightened in even more painful teen suicide. It introduces all different layers of complexity as far as, not only is this person no longer with us, it is also that we have to grapple with how they left us. 

If it had been a car accident or cancer, or something like that, we could blame the drunk driver, we could blame the cancer; or if it had been the murderer, we could rage against the murderer. But in this case, our loved one died at his own hand. We grieve them with all the sadness, and love, and pain that would be normal; but we also rage against them, and we are angry at them, and we hate them for doing this to themselves. 

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Anger is very common as another emotion after a suicide.

Dennis: Al, thank you—thank you for saying that anger is a normal response. I have a feeling that there is more than one survivor of suicide in their family who has felt that rage and felt like it was wrong—it was wrong to feel that way. But you’re saying, “No; anger is a secondary emotion that is expressed when one’s hurt.”

Al: Right; and it’s very common. One bereavement counselor told me that she sees people in cemeteries, all the time, yelling at gravestones. Anger is a very common response to grief.

Bob: When you got the news of your father’s suicide from your mom, you got in the car and drove from Chicago to Minnesota. You were grieving; but now, you were in a position to try to comfort your mom in her grief. 

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So, how did you handle the grieving that you were going through and the need to be a comforting son in that moment?

Al: In many ways, we just sort of kicked into handling logistics and being busy—taking care of details with the funeral home—and things like that. I was feeling pretty numb. People who specialize in trauma tell us that, after trauma, we are often immobilized in many ways. Our normal fight-or-flight response shuts down, and we have a freeze response. In some ways, I’m very grateful for how my wife and others helped fill in around us; whereas I didn’t always know what to do / I couldn’t always act—

Dennis: Yes; let me stop you there. You’d only been married a few months; hadn’t you?

Al: Yes; yes—nine months.

Dennis: So, Ellen stepped in. How was she a helpmate?

Al: I’m so grateful for her walking with me throughout all this. She was my shoulder to cry on; she gave all the practical support needed as we were r...