We were so grateful to have a conversation with Erica Smith, sex educator and author of the incredibly helpful new bookThe Purity Culture Recovery Guide: The Shame-Free Sex Education You Deserve. You can also follow Erica on instagram.

Krispin talked with Erica about dating after purity culture, feeling like an imposter in queer spaces when you come out late in life, lifelong impacts of being disconnected from your own sense of desire — as well as the top five things Erica found surprising (and disturbing) about purity culture as an outsider who learned about it as an adult.

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠ or strongwilledproject.com

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

We originally recorded and released the episode last summer for our paid subscribers, but felt that it was relevant to current times, following another Epstein Files dump, and as a society, we’re discussing how abusers operate — and how those around them enable. 

If you enjoyed this episode, you can join ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or become a paid subscriber on substack to get these extra episodes. We just released one yesterday titled Dobson in the Epstein Files, Boundaries with Parents & Evaluating the Doctrine of Forgiveness.

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠ or strongwilledproject.com

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILLED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

This episode, DL gives an overview of their research on Dobson's knowledge and failure to use that knowledge to protect kids, and instead promoted ideas within purity culture that parallel and affirm childhood sexual abusers. It's a long one, and it's tough content, but we feel it's incredibly important. 

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠ or strongwilledproject.com

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

DL talks about why the latest Knives Out Mystery gives them hope. We discussed the way it approaches different types of Christianity, as well as asking whether Christianity itself is helpful, as well as what happens to true believers when they become calcified in institutions. 

We appreciate your continued support and engagement. As always, this is a survivor-led and survivor-supported publication. If you appreciate our work (and our ad-free podcast!) please consider supporting us financially or sharing about the podcast on your social media channels.

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

This episode, DL talks about Dobson's political career (including helping Putin come to power in Russia), and how Dobson's purity culture is pedophile culture. 

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠ or strongwilledproject.com

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

This episode, DL gives an overview of the beginning of Dobson’s career prior to founding Focus on the Family, including his eugensistic beginnings, his role on the Meese Commission and the ways he ushered in the religious authoritarianism we’re living under right now.

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠ or strongwilledproject.com

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

DL talks about why Derry Girls gives them hope during such difficult times. We discussed why it feels like an important story, our favorite characters and why Krispin is a Derry girl. 

This fall, we’ll be releasing a substack series of writing and podcasts focused on Dobson and his impact on children in religious communities — so we also wanted to make room to talk about things that are life giving and more fun to focus on. Looking ahead, most of this content will for our patreon/subscriber community, but we wanted to share it with the broader community today. 

You can listen to the audio on the main podcast feed — just search STRONGWILLED wherever you find your podcasts. 

We appreciate your continued support and engagement. We know that much of our content take enormous emotional energy to process — we feel the same. So we’re very glad to switch it up this week and have a little fun!

As always, this is a survivor-led and survivor-supported publication. If you appreciate our work (and our ad-free podcast!) please consider supporting us financially or sharing about the podcast on your social media channels.

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

This fall, we’ll be releasing a substack series of writing and podcasts focused on Dobson and his impact on children in religious communities — so we also wanted to make room to talk about things that are life giving and more fun to focus on. Looking ahead, most of this content will for our patreon/subscriber community, but we wanted to share it with the broader community today. 

You can listen to the audio on the main podcast feed — just search STRONGWILLED wherever you find your podcasts. 

We appreciate your continued support and engagement. We know that much of our content take enormous emotional energy to process — we feel the same. So we’re very glad to switch it up this week and have a little fun!

As always, this is a survivor-led and survivor-supported publication. If you appreciate our work (and our ad-free podcast!) please consider supporting us financially or sharing about the podcast on your social media channels.

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

This episode, DL talks with RL Stollar about threats to children’s safety in child-centric organizations like churches or the Scouts, as well as what statistics say about which demographic are most likely to sexual abuse kids.

RL is a child liberation theologian and an advocate for children and abuse survivors. The author of a book on child liberation theology, "The Kingdom of Children." Ryan has an M.H.S. in Child Protection from Nova Southeastern University. He has served on the board of and run numerous social media campaigns for child advocacy organizations, including the Child-Friendly Faith Project, the Coalition for Responsible Home Education, and Homeschool Alumni Reaching Out. He authored the first and only comprehensive curricula on child abuse awareness and suicide prevention specifically tailored to homeschooling families and communities. Co-founder of the viral website Homeschoolers Anonymous, his advocacy work on behalf of homeschooled children and alumni has been featured in national and international media. 

You can find out more about RL’s work and social media links at his website.

This episode focuses on the risks of sexual abuse of children by adults, so please take care as you listen. If you find this triggering because of your own experiences, rainn.org is a good place to look for support.

We recently released an episode discussing the 2015 film Spotlight, talking through how abusive systems protect abusers, and the religious themes that uphold those systems. Head over to patreon to join and listen.

We’re hosting an IN-PERSON book club in Gresham, OR at Maggie Mae’s bookstore: September 28 @ 5:15pm. 

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠.

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

We’d love for you to take our survey examining the impacts of growing up in a religious authoritarian environment: click on this link to take it! So many thanks to all of you who have taken it so far, we’ve had over 500 responses! Plus, you all have left so many kind words in the open comment section and it’s been incredibly encouraging as we continue in this work!

We just released an episode discussing the 2015 film Spotlight, talking through how abusive systems protect abusers, and the religious themes that uphold those systems. Head over to patreon to join and listen.

We’re hosting an IN-PERSON book club in Gresham, OR at Maggie Mae’s bookstore: September 28 @ 5:15pm. 

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠.

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

Krispin & DL discuss the origins of Christian Zionism and how Christian publishing has shaped the course of history, including US foreign policy.

The series originally had three episodes, and you can go back and listen to the other two episodes:  one episode withJosh P. Hill and one episode with Kelley Nikondeha.

Also, you can hear DL’s story about growing up in the midst of this kind of prophecy in this episode titled DL’s Story

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠.

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠.

You can join⁠⁠ ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

Krispin & DL recap and discuss the third movie of The Hunger Games (which was a difficult watch).

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠.

You can join⁠⁠  ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

If you want to hear Part 2 of this episode earlier than the regular schedule, you can ⁠become a patreon subscriber⁠ and listen to part 2 today!

Krispin mentions researchers who see corporal punishment as a symbol of devotion to God; he's referencing Susan B. Ridgley's journal article, "⁠When pain becomes symbolic of commitment"⁠

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠⁠⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠⁠⁠.

You can join⁠⁠  ⁠our patreon community⁠⁠⁠ or⁠⁠⁠ join our substack⁠⁠⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠. You can ⁠⁠⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠⁠⁠.

Download Pranksters vs. Autocrats by Sophia McClennen and Srdja Popovic for free!

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at⁠ strongwilled.substack.com⁠.

You can join⁠ our patreon community⁠ or⁠ join our substack⁠ to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on ⁠Instagram⁠. You can ⁠follow Krispin on Instagram here⁠.

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at strongwilled.substack.com.

You can join our patreon comamunity or join our substack to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here.

DL interviewed Talia Lavin, author of the phenomenal book Wild Faith: How the Christian Right is Taking Over America. 

You can follow Talia on bluesky and buy her book here. 

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at strongwilled.substack.com.

You can join our patreon comamunity or join our substack to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED on Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here.

DL took some time during their estrangement story to do a deep dive into the intergenerational aftermath of Nazi Germany, and how younger generations talked with their parents about their support of Hitler -- plus, a run down of what seems to be driving estrangement in the US among adult children and their religious, conservative parents.

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at strongwilled.substack.com.

You can join our patreon comamunity or join our substack to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here.

DL shares their story about going no contact with their parents, and in line with our recent post on substack, discusses how oppressive politics and ideology can do incredible harm in personal relationships. 

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at strongwilled.substack.com.

You can join our patreon comamunity or join our substack to support this podcast and join our discord community. 

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here.

Krispin & DL discuss the second part of the the Adventures in Odyssey episode, a follow up to our podcast episode Spanking on Christian Radio released last fall.

This Adventure's in Odyssey episode focuses on Mr. Whitaker’s troubled relationship with his adult daughter. Honestly, we couldn’t have written an episode that is so perfect at describing what it is like to try and be in relationship with religious authoritarian parents if we tried.

You can check out show notes and more STRONGWILLED content at strongwilled.substack.com 

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our discord community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here.

Krispin shares his story about going no contact with his parents. This is a heavy one, and has an ongoing theme about sexual abuse and a family system that enabled abuse, so please take care in listening.

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at strongwilled.substack.com.

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

Krispin & DL discuss the factors that make setting boundary in religious authoritarian families so difficult. We talk about how trauma responses make it difficult for us to speak up, the negative responses to setting boundaries, and more.

D.L. mentions the Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents series by Lindsay Gibson.

You can register for Krispin's workshop for therapists & helping professionals at his website: https://www.krispinmayfield.com/

You can read about religious authoritarian parenting and also find the transcript for this podcast at strongwilled.substack.com.

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

Krispin & DL interview Tori Williams Douglass about corporal punishment and their experience working in a neuroscience lab.

You can follow Tori on IG and check out their website here.

You can check out our recent post at STRONGWILLED about the research about spanking and corporal punishment here, and the rest of our STRONGWILLD content (and the transcript for this epsiode) at strongwilled.substack.com.

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

Krispin & DL discuss a Christian radio drama about spanking/corporal punishment. We're digging into an episode of Adventures in Odyssey (produced & distributed by James Dobson's organization, Focus on the Family) from 1988 that talked about why it was so important.

We're discussing "A Member of the Family Part 1" which debuted in the early years of the program, talking about the importance of spanking. Even if you didn't grow up listening to this radio show, it's an important look into how spanking was practiced and the emotional dynamics surrounding it.

You can check out show notes and more STRONGWILLED content at strongwilled.substack.com 

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

A conversation between Krispin and DL, where DL talks about their childhood with a parent who believed it was the end of the world. In this episode, we also discuss late-diagnosed autism, making sense of family tragedies, and being gender non-conforming in a world that was obsessed with the patriarchal binary. 

You can check out show notes and more STRONGWILLED content at strongwilled.substack.com 

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

This episode, Krispin talks about growing up in a small town with conservative parents would joined ministry and eventually overseas mission work, and what religious authoritarian parenting looked like for Krispin’s childhood, teenage years and early adulthood.

You can check out show notes and more STRONGWILLED content at strongwilled.substack.com 

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

We mention Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell.

You can check out show notes and more STRONGWILLED content at strongwilled.substack.com 

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

We talk about six aspects of religious authoritarian parenting, including the goals of this type of parenting, how religion was used, and the developmental delays it creates.

We mention Lindsay Gibson’s book, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and Marlene Winell’s book Leaving the Fold. We also mention Divergent models of childrearing in popular manuals: Conservative Protestants vs. the mainstream experts.” By Bartkowski, J. P., & Ellison, C. G. (1995). Sociology of Religion.

You can check out show notes and more STRONGWILLED content at strongwilled.substack.com 

You can join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow STRONGWILED Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and DL on Instagram here.

Today Amber is a powerful advocate for the LGBTQIA+ community, focusing on people who grew up in high control religious environments. Make sure to check out her book Out of Focus: My Story of Shame, Sexuality, and Toxic Evangelicalism. She also hosts the Unashamed Love Collective.

You can read the transcript and further details for this episode here.

DL and Amber talk about a series her father helped produce called "The Ties that Bind," and you can listen to the season of this podcast where we discussed it episode by episode.

You can check out a written version of this interview on our STRONGWILLED substack.

Our STRONGWILLED season will drop next month!

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access extra episodes, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-onlay episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Here is a great 4-page sheet outlining what happened in 1948. While John Wayne encouraged Bodie Theone to call it “The Jewish Alamo” Palestinians had another word for that year--Nakba, or “the catastrophe.” 

The key has become a symbol of Palestians forced from their homes in 1948 who continue to hope to go home and yet have no rights or protections under which they can do so. 

Here are interviews with four Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank.

A Keffiyeh is a Palestinian scarf that is full of cultural significance. 

Here is both the video and the transcript of Isaac Munther’s sermon “Christ in the rubble”

For further reading D.L. recommends Palestine Speaks and Kelley’s book The First Advent in Palestine (make sure you read all her footnotes!)

Kelley recommends The Lemon Tree and This is Not a Border. She also recommends following and watching content from PAL fest, the Palestinian Art and literature festival. For Christians, she recommends reading Naim Ateek’s book Justice and Only Justice, and Faith in the Face of Empire by Mitri Raheb.  

Sliman Mansour created the image Kelley used for the cover art for her book. You can follow him on Instagram, where he updates almost daiy on the situation.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

You can follow Josh’s work over on his substack called New Means. He mostly covers issues of labor but most recently has been writing from a Jewish perspective on the dangers of zionism. 

“Zionism was the air we breathed. To me it seemed so normal, it was not something we investigated consciously.”

The single largest zionist organization in the US Christians United for Israel. You can read more about it here.

The current speaker of the house, Mike Johnson, is a rabid Christian zionist. 

Jewitches has a great podcast, post, and infographics on Christian zionism. 

They write: “The largest Zionist organization has more Christian members than there are Jewish Americans alive. As of 2021, there are roughly 7.5 million American Jews. Christians United for Israel alone has over 10 million Christian members. There are more than 30 million Christian Zionists in the United States alone, according to the author & academic Tristan Sturm. That’s double the population of Jews worldwide.”

Here is a quick biography of Brock and Bodie Theone. 

In 1978 while working on The Fall Guy, she [Bodie]  told John Wayne about her desire to write about the events surrounding Israel's statehood. "That's one you ought to do," Wayne said. "It's the Jewish Alamo!" An unusual series of circumstances directed Bodie into the Zion project. A producer persuaded her to write a script centering on the day in 1948 when Jerusalem's mayor received from the British the key to the Old City. For the first time in 2,000 years, a Jew held the key to the city gates. While an intriguing story to Bodie, the producer needed the script in three weeks.

Brock and Bodie have written 65 different books and sold over 35 million copies of their zionist historical fiction. 

“Due to such careful research, The Zion Covenant and The Zion Chronicles series are recognized by the American Library Association, as well as Zionist libraries around the world, as classic historical novels and are used to teach history in college classrooms.”

O Jerusalem was a book published in 1972 that was a popular history of the creation of the nation-state of Israel. Here is some good background info on the book and what its aims were. 

One of Bodie’s recent facebook posts mentions “the door of the Ark is about to close” The rest of their facebook page is just one big trigger warning/red flag.

Brock and Bodie wrote their recent books of fiction with Calvary Chapel pastor (and huge end-times prophecy guy) Ray Bentley. 

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Here's some resources we reference in this episode:

Left Behind: From Root to Ripened Fruit by Hank Hanegraaff (the Bible Answer Man).

John Darby's "End Times" by Chuck Hamilton

Asking, What Would Jesus Read? by Erin Smith

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Krispin mentions Task Master

DL mentions Good Christian Fun

You can learn about ethical soups here.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Krispin & DL mention Messes of Men by mewithoutyou

DL mentions Ethical OCD, and here’s a great article on it. 

Krispin references Becoming Attached by Robert Karen.

Diane Poole Heller has an Attachment Quiz you can take to find out yours!

We use the audio from The Good Place Podcast.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here. 

Krispin mentions the On God’s Campus, a podcast about how religious exemptions have allowed Christian colleges to ban interracial relationships and LGBGTQIA+ students and staff.

Krispin mentions also one of his favorite books, Gentler God by Doug Frank

We use the audio from The Good Place Podcast.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here. 

We use the audio from The Good Place Podcast.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here. 

DL mentions the book Refusing Compulsory Sexuality: A Black Asexual Lens on Our Sex-Obsessed Culture by Sherronda J. Brown. 

Also, here’s the interview with T.M. Scanlon where they ask him how he felt about their use of his book in The Good Place.

We use the audio from The Good Place Podcast.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here. 

Head to our website for transcripts of the episodes. 

We mention Yancey's interview with the I Was a Teenage Fundamentalist Podcast and their follow-up episode after the interview.

We have a patreon-only episode up today about The Strong Willed Child by James Dobson. Become a patreon member to hear it!

Joining patreon, you'll gain access to two extra episodes each month (like this one), our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

We use the audio from The Good Place Podcast.

Here’s the first episode of the series where we talk about the Adventures in Odyssey episodes that feature Marc Evan Jackson’s voice.

Wanna hear more about fascism? Check out DL’s substack.

Also, here’s a link to The Food Place.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here. 

Head to our website for transcripts of the episodes. 

We use the audio from The Good Place Podcast.

Krispin mentions Best in Miniature (which unfortunately you only watch in Canada, or with a VPN)

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more.

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here. 

Head to our website for transcripts of the episodes. 

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more. 

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Head to our website for transcripts of the episodes. 

DL mentions Half a Soul by Olivia Atwater.

Leave us a voicemail at (503) 912-4130 or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more. 

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Head to our website for transcripts of the episodes. 

We’re covering the pilot episode, and talking about ethical conundrums, anxiety about the afterlife, religious trauma, and whether Ted Danson’s character is some form of Billy Graham. 

DL mentions The Good Place: the Podcast. 

They also mention How to Be Perfect by Michael Schur.

Also, Kesha’s song is actually just called Sleazy. 

Leave a voicemail ‪at (503) 912-4130‬ or send a voice memo to propheticimaginationstation@gmaill.com.

You can Join our patreon comamunity to support this podcast and gain access to two extra episodes each month, our facebook community, as well as the backlog of patreon-only episodes covering evangelical media, spiritual abuse, and more. 

You can follow The Bad Place Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Krispin on Instagram here and Danielle on Instagram here.

Head to our website for transcripts of the episodes. 

Most of this episode discusses sexual abuse and child pornography. There's a short section 13:55-22:55 that discusses the plan for Christian homeschoolers to go to Washington and republican politics, and also current youtube Christina influencers. Then, 39:40-end is free of triggers around sexual abuse, and discusses the hope of survivors of IBLP. 

The episode talks about how the Duggar family and friends respond to Josh Duggar's charges of child pornography and his previous allegations of sexual abuse. There's also discussion of abuse charges and also legal retaliation. There's a short portion about how conservative Christians are trying to hold cultural power through politics and social media. We also talk a bit about the survivors of IBLP and how they've been healing and recovering from trauma.

If you've experienced the pain of having family or friends fail to respond in a healthy way to disclosure of abuse, Krispin suggests the website: https://secondwound.com/

This is the last of a four episode series called Too Many Cults, where Krispin and Lindsay Strannigan (from The Holy Ghosting Podcast, and DL’s sister) recap the docuseries Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets on Amazon Prime.

Join our patreon community to support this podcast. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Here's a breakdown of the episode and the topics:

0:00 Introduction, brief non-specific mention on Josh's child pornography charges. 

2:00 Discussion of free labor in evangelical spaces

23:00 Discussion of sexual abuse from Gothard and sexual abuse within the IBLP.

This is the third of a four episode series called Too Many Cults, where Krispin and Lindsay Strannigan (from The Holy Ghosting Podcast, and DL’s sister) recap the docuseries Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets on Amazon Prime.

This episode we talk about how both IBLP and Jim Bob Duggar hold onto money while those with less power do unpaid work. We also talk about how Gothard created an environment in the IBLP that encouraged abuse to exist with impunity. Krispin shares a bit of the parallels he saw in his own evangelical community in response to his disclosure of sexual abuse by a family membr. 

Join our patreon community to support this podcast. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Here's a breakdown of the episode and the topics:

0:00 Introduction, overview of episode, discussion of why traumatized people can be drawn to fundamentalism

9:45 homeschooling

22:10 subjugation of women; abuse of girls & women, purity culture, gender roles

30:00 child abuse; discipline of children

47:30 sexual abuse

This is the second of a four episode series called Too Many Cults, where Krispin and Lindsay Strannigan (from The Holy Ghosting Podcast, and DL’s sister) recap the docuseries Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets on Amazon Prime.

This episode we talk about how Bill Gothard’s teachings about women's gender roles and parenting creating environments where abuse could occur with impunity.

Join our patreon community to support this podcast. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

This is the first of a four episode series called Too Many Cults, where Krispin and Lindsay Strannigan (from The Holy Ghosting Podcast, and DL’s sister) recap the docuseries Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets on Amazon Prime.

We're calling the series Too Many Cults, inspired by the video Too Many Cooks, which you should go watch!

This episode we talk about how Bill Gothard’s teachings of the Institute of Basic Life Principles (IBLP) are incredibly similar to mainstream evangelicalism, and to the experiences of those of us who grew up with Focus on the Family. Bill Gothard and Dr. Dobson were incredibly similar, and created very similar dysfunctional family cultures (the latter just had fewer kids).

We’re recapping the episodes, talking about what stands out to us and processing some religious trauma along the way. We’re releasing episodes on both podcasts, a true crossover series.

Join our patreon community to support this podcast. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Join our patreon community to support this podcast and listen to our most recent patreon episode about having a relationship with your evangelical parents while going through a major faith shift -- and learn what our next season will cover.

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Head to our website to find more info and a transcript for this episode. Thanks to Bonnie Downing for support on the transcript.

Krispin interviews Dr. Mark G. Karris, therapist and author of The Diabolical Trinity: Healing Religious Trauma from a Wrathful God, Tormenting Hell, and a Sinful Self. They talk about “In the Light” by DC Talk.

Mark has written other books, including Religious Refugees: (De)Constructing Toward Spiritual and Emotional Healing and Divine Echoes: Reconciling Prayer With The Uncontrolling Love Of God

In the episode Mark mentions Brian Peck and also Kristen Neff’s work in self compassion. Here’s a link to some of her guided mediations that I really like. 

We’d love for you to consider joining our patreon community to support this podcast. 

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Head to our website to find more info and a transcript for this episode.

We reference When God Talks Back by T.M. Luhrmann

We’d love for you to consider joining our patreon community to support this podcast. 

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

A transcript for this episode is available at our website.

We reference the songs Toby Mac and Wanna Grab Coffee? by Semler

We talk about the book about martyrs title Jesus Freaks, which DL talked with their sisters about a few episodes back.

Make sure to check out Grace's docuseries, State of Grace. Our favorite episode is "The Life Threatening Dangers Of Gay Conversion Therapy," where they interview Jackie Hill Perry.

We’d love for you to consider joining our patreon community to support this podcast. 

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Thanks to Bonnie Downing for helping with transcription for this episode. You can find the transcript our website.

Check out the documentary DL suggests about Lonnie Frisbee here.

We’d love for you to consider joining our patreon community to support this podcast. 

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Thanks so much to Meagan House for providing transcription for the episode!

Krispin & Kevin Nye discuss "Day by Day" from Jesus Freak, and talk about the heavy weight of daily devotions, perfectionism, and more. 

Kevin is the author of Grace Can Lead Us Home: A Christian Call to End Homelessness

You can follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

Krispin mentions Kevin's twitter thread about Gospel Rescue Missions, and you can read it here.

We’d love for you to consider joining our patreon community to support this podcast. 

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Thanks for Bonnie Downing providing transcription for the episode - which you can read at our website.

You can follow Lindsay Strannigan on twitter and instagram - and also check out her podcast, Holy Ghosting.

We’d love for you to consider joining our patreon community to support this podcast. 

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

Derrick Scott III is the creative producer at Studio Wesley. You can follow him on twitter and his work with Studio Wesley on instagram.

In the episode, Krispin mentions a Studio Wesley podcast titled, Queer Roots and Black Spirituality.

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Peter Choi is the Director of the Center for Faith and Justice (that DL and Krispin are a facilitators for!). Peter's also a historian with a focus on evangelicalism in eighteenth-century North America.

During our conversation, Peter recommends Delores Williams, Shoki Coe, James Cone, and Cole Arthur Riley. He also mentions Henry McNeil Turner. 

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Krispin and DL talk about "So Help Me God," developmental psychology and about the organization that partnered to produce the books "Jesus Freaks."

Check out the sordid history of Voice of the Martyrs on wikipedia.

Also on wikipedia, Erik Erikson's psycho-social stages.

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

We love Jessie’s twitter feed where she talks about recovering from evangelicalism, hilarious day-to-day things, and you can see her design work on her instagram.

She sings on her husband's record, and our favorite song is Where We’re Going. (The album is Man Overboard by James and the Shame by Rhett McLaughlin, one half of the Good Mythical Morning YouTube). You can hear more about Jessie and Rhett's story of going on staff at Campus Crusade (Cru) and the process of leaving, as Rhett tells is here.

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

We mention Grace Baldridge’s documentary where they interview Jackie Hill Perry. Also, check out their music in spotify!

We also mention the Behind the Bastard’s podcast about James Dobson. 

Jenna DeWitt has a website of resources for LGBTQIA+ Christians and allies called Invisible Cake Society 

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Make sure to check out DL's book Unruly Saint about Dorothy Day and how she started the Catholic Worker.

And here's a little article about the ferry in New York named after her.

Our most recent patreon-only episode, we discussed 2004's The Village and talked about cults (and whether white evangelicalism is a cult).

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Before listening, go ahead and check out the music video for Jesus Freak.

We’re diving into the iconic album Jesus Freak by DC Talk, track by track.

In this introductory episode, Krispin and DL talk about the title track, examining the lyrics and context behind the song Jesus Freak. 

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Krispin mentions Emotionally Focused Therapy—find more about that here.

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. And potentially, Krispin will share his online magazine writings. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover art by Zech Bard.

You can find Erin Moon on the socials @erinhmoon, on substack, and on her podcast, The Bible Binge. 

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover art by Zech Bard.

D.L. once again revisits Redeeming Love with Dr. Alexiana Fry. We get more into the weeds of some of the problematic and traumatic elements in the novel itself, as well as Hosea, Judges, and the Bible in general. Trigger warning for violence, rape, and abuse.

Dr. Alexiana Fry (find her on Twitter) is an Old Testament scholar and professor of biblical studies, with a focus on trauma, feminism, and migration.

Dr. Fry references Nancy Nam Hoon Tan’s work from her book Resisting Rape Culture. 

Dr. Julia O’Brien’s work is also mentioned—check out her book Challenging Prophetic Metaphor. 

You can find more information about our Faith and Justice Network cohort here! We’d love to have you join us this fall to untangle white evangelism together.

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover art by Zech Bard.

We tackle the harmful biases around gender roles and romance from an asexual and aromantic perspective.

Jenna DeWitt (follow her on Twitter!) is an editor and queer activist, focusing on educating people and providing resources on asexual and aromantic identities. Check out her blog for more info!

Also, as mentioned in the episode, here is the Spotify playlist curated by Jenna, Rainbow Faith. 

You can find more information about our Faith and Justice Network cohort here! We’d love to have you join us this fall to untangle white evangelism together.

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover art by Zech Bard.

We delve into some of the troubling elements of the story, discuss why it holds such an appeal for evangelical women, and touch on some related aspects of purity culture (Devi’s speciality!) as well. 

Devi Abraham is a writer and co-host of the podcast Where Do We Go from Here?, tackling sex and purity culture. Follow her on twitter @devi_writes and check out her website.

You can find more information about our Faith and Justice Network cohort here! We’d love to have you join us this fall to untangle white evangelism together.

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover art by Zech Bard.

We explore the unique, multi-faceted world of Amish romance, how it ties into the larger evangelical world in general, why it’s so dominated by whiteness, and why it remains such a popular genre among evangelical women today. 

Valerie Weaver-Zercher is a writer and editor with Broadleaf Books (where D.L. is also an author). Check out her website and her book, which we discuss in this episode, Thrill of the Chaste.

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover art by Zech Bard.

We talk about Oke’s Canadian background and how that plays into her writing, as well as the impact her books have had on Christian women and the Christian romance genre as a whole.

Daniel is a news editor for Christianity Today and author of Reading Evangelicals. You can follow him on Twitter @danielsilliman

Here is an interview with Janette Oke

This article on Active History explores how Janette Oke romanticizes the Mounties

You can check out this detailed report from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police on their role in the Indian residential school system

“I was born on the Canadian prairie. I was actually born at home. This sounds really like old, old west. I was born in a little log house. The doctor came out to our place to deliver me. So it sounds really, really old fashioned. I went to a one room country school. So a lot of what I write, it’s very much a part of my background–as a teenager, and even younger than that, I was very into the west and the pioneer days. So I read everything I could find on the pioneers. I felt they were a very hearty group of people with a lot of bravery to come out and start making a life on a new frontier. Our Canadian west opened up quite a bit different than the stories that I was reading, which were basically westerns from the U.S. side of the border, in that we had the Northwest Mounted Police—they were at that time—and basically precede the settlers.”

“We never had the cowboy and Indian skirmishes and the unsettled west for them to come in. We never had sheriffs in Canada. We have had what is now the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and so our pioneers came out to a rather settled area as far as the laws were concerned and oftentimes there were groups of people that sort of came together from a united background, and if you look at our small town around our area and find the oldest church you can pretty well say, ‘Well, that group of settlers came from Germany’, ‘That group of settlers came from Sweden’, you know. By the oldest church there you can pretty well identify it, so these people came west with deep, personal faith. That changed the whole color of how our west was settled.”

We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram.

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You’ll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover art by Zech Bard.

You can become a patreon supporter of the podcast for as little as $1.50 a month.

ALSO - this Saturday, May 15th, our patreon community is going to watch The Jesus Music together - and have a group chat along at the same time. Become a supporter & get details on how to watch along!

Danielle interviews Sharifa Stevens about the book of Esther, and the Bible stories that have been romanticized - and shouldn’t have been. 

Follow Sharifa on Twitter or Instagram! Also, subscribe to her substack!

Check out her chapter in Vindicating the Vixens

Did you grow up reading Christian Romance books? Why not try recapping one (under a minute is great) for us and making it onto the podcast! Simply call in to our voicemail line at ‪(612) 656-9562 or record a voice memo and email it to us at propheticimaginationstation@gmail.com. 

For more information on our podcast, check out our website. You can also find us on Twitter and on Instragram.  

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!) join us at Patreon! We do monthly episodes for patrons-only and occasionally do a fun zoom hangout. You can join this community and get access to the backlog of patron-only podcasts for as little as $1.50 a month!

Did you grow up reading Christian Romance books? Why not try recapping one (under a minute is great) for us and making it onto the podcast! Simply call in to our voicemail line at ‪(612) 656-9562 or record a voice memo and email it to us at propheticimaginationstation@gmail.com. 

Statistics on Romance Readers found here.  

Bell Hooks on romance books for the Washington Post.

From Reddit (on a thread about Bell Hooks):

“Romance as a genre is a safe haven for so many of us. We come here to know what it is to love deeply and be loved in return. For marginalized people especially having a place to land, this inclusive affirming space is more important than ever. Romance writers have been pushing boundaries for a long time, fighting for a space to tell our stories where women are sexual, Black love is cherished, queerness celebrated, where disabled people are beautiful, and the working class get HEAs [Happily Ever Afters]”

Books and authors to be explored later on in this series:

Janette Oke

Francine Rivers 

Christy Miller Series

Bodie Theone

Amish Romance

And more!

For more information on our podcast, check out our website. You can also find us on Twitter and on Instragram.  

To support our show (we can’t do this without you!) join us at Patreon! We do monthly episodes for patrons-only and occasionally do a fun zoom hangout. You can join this community and get access to the backlog of patron-only podcasts for as little as $1.50 a month!

Cover Art by Zech Bard

We listened to & discussed this episode about feelings, faith, evangelism, Jesus bracelets, worrying about salvation, and marriage.

To pair with this episode, we are releasing a patreon-only episode where we talk about the attachment styles of Whit, Connie, Eugene, Tom and others!

Trigger warnings: sexual assault, childhood sexual abuse, domestic violence and panic attacks/anxiety attacks.

Redeeming Love was a book written by a reformed romance author in 1991, to give a modern-but-not-that-modern retelling of the book of Hosea.

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Send us an email or find us on social media to tell us about what movies you think we should watch!

You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

Pre order Krispin's book here!

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

We think it's worth watching the 2-minute trailer before listening to this episode.

We discuss the Netflix doc 'Procession,' about survivors of sexual abuse by clergy. The documentary follows six male survivors as they create short films based on their experience, with a drama therapist. TW: sexual abuse, religious abuse.

We mentioned some resources around the topic:

Traumatized by Religious Abuse by Connie Baker (and check out our episode where we interview her here).

Something's Not Right Here by Wade Mullen

Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority & Abuse in the Church by Diane Langberg.

Send us an email or find us on social media to tell us about what movies you think we should watch!

You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

Pre order Krispin's book here!

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email or find us on social media to tell us about what movies you think we should watch!

You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

Pre order Krispin's book here!

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Check out our series on The Chronicles of Narnia, in case you missed it - including the episode about our former professor who collected C.S. Lewis artifacts.

Send us an email or find us on social media to tell us about what movies you think we should watch!

You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

Pre order Krispin's book here!

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Trigger warning: childhood verbal abuse.

This is a documentary about Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, Kirk Franklin, Toby Mac -- and a lot of other CCM artists. Krispin went to see it in the theater, and told DL all about it.

We also talk about the documentary by the same name which you can stream on https://www.wowpresentsplus.com.

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Send us an email or find us on social media to tell us about what movies you think we should watch!

You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

Pre order Krispin's book here!

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

This episode we discuss a documentary called Show Me the Father and discuss patriarchy, "father wounds," and if men can uniquely mediate between heaven and earth because of their gender (spoiler alert: we don't think so!).

Send us an email or find us on social media to tell us about what movies you think we should watch!

You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

We talked with Mason Mennenga - host of the A People’s Theology podcast and The Black Shee Podcast.

I also talked with Professor Joel Harrison is Associate Professor of Religion at Northern Virginia Community College in Manassas, VA. He’s working on a book right now on Evangelical Political Identity and Underground Christian Punk, He looks at how leftist punk aesthetics were fully embraced in some circles and, thus, pushed evangelicalism in a progressive direction - like what Mason was sauing - and in others, "punk" was repurposed for more conservative political ends.

Here's the article about Mars Hill and Tooth & Nail bands.

Join us next week for our new season!

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

Drew Hart is the author of Who Will be a Witness and Trouble I’ve Seen.

Curt Thompson has published Anatomy of the Soul, The Soul of Shame and The Soul Of Desire: Discovering The Neuroscience Of Longing, Beauty, And Community.

In the episode, Krispin mentions Judith Herman’s book Trauma and Recovery

We mention songs from Mewithoutyou’s album Catch for Us the Foxes and also The King Beetle on a Coconut Estate

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

Dr. Karyn Purvis audio was taken from lectures available from the Karyn Purvis Institute of Child Development. 

If you’re a parent interested in learning more about building secure attachment with your children, Krispin recommends The Whole-Brain Child by Payne and Seigel and The 6 Needs of Every Child by Amy & Jeffrey Olrick. 

Krispin also reference Becoming Attached by Robert Karen and the Attachment Theory in Action podcast interview with Alan Sroufe.

We talk about a few songs from Son, I Loved You At Your Darkest and the “soft song” is called The Widow.

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Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

Robert is part of the 3 Black Men podcast, as well as a writer and musician.

In this episode we mention Mako Nagasawa, the book Gentler God, by Doug Frank and The Inner Voice of Love by Henri Nouwen. Also, here is the article on attachment and spirituality Krispin references.

Here are the songs in this episode:

Mouth like a Magazine by Showbread

Matthias Replaces Judas by Showbread

Some Will Seek Forgiveness, Others Escape by Underoath

Bliss Tearing Eyes by Dead Poetic

So Great a Salvation by The OC Supertones

Getting Into You by Relient K

Dandelions by Five Iron Frenzy

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

What’s the connection between Father John Misty (Joshua Tillman, also from Fleet Foxes) and the navy seal who killed Osama Bin Laden?

This is a short episode where Krispin talks about this weird connection, and then we have a replay of an old Prophetic Imagination Station episode where we discuss Adventures in Odyssey’s episode “The Price of Freedom.”

Here’s the Esquire article mentioned in the episode.

And the press release from Demon Hunter.

Hear the rest of Brad Jersak’s interview here.

Watch the Training For Utopia video and let me know what you think!

Here are the songs of the episode:

Nancy From Now on by Father John Misty

Turn Your Back and Run by Demon Hunter

Not Ready to Die by Demon Hunter

The Soldier’s Song by Demon Hunter

Throwin’ Out Tha Wicked by T-Bone

Demon Executor by T-Bone

Good Feeling by Training For Utopia

Heather Beamish is an artist, speaker, activist and poet based in Toronto Canada. Follow her on Instagram here.

You can watch Hellbound? by Kevin Miller on amazon.

Listen to all of Ravage Ritual by Zao here.

You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

There's a clip from an Adventures in Odyssey episode that we talked about in our episode, Let's Talk About Hell Baby over two years ago.

This episode features A Green Desire and Tell Myself Goodbye by Dead Poetic, and also Wrong Body by As Cities Burn.

We'd like to get voicemails or voice memos from you! How did teachings about hell impact you, your mental health, or your relationship with God? (or all three!)

Send us an email or leave us a voicemail.

Oh, and that REAL C.S. Lewis quote is from The Problem of Pain (p. 139).

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

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Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

We keep talking about This From My Lips by Yours My Sin is Purged by As Cities Burn

You can follow Heather Patton Griffin on twitter - she has so many great twitter threads on these topics!

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

Krispin explores the angst around purity culture that shows up in Christian hardcore, and discusses with Dr. Bradley Onishi how this element of evangelical culture impacted the Atlanta Shooter's actions in March 2020.

Follow Brad on twitter and check out his podcast Straight White American Jesus, where he's discussed and responded to Tim Keller, Al Mohler and Jim Daly.

Check out Ruth Graham's article that quotes Onishi here.

Here are all the songs referenced in this episode:

Time Stands Still by Extol

Breaking My Own Heart by Haste the Day

A Boy Brushed Red Living in Black and White by Underoath

Stalemade by Project 86

that song by No Innocent Victim

Eye Candy by Trauma

A Green Desire by Dead Poetic

Run for Your Life (She calls) by Impending Doom

Face:Face by Norma Jean

This From My Lips by Yours My Sin is Purged by As Cities Burn

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

We talk about Listening to Freddie Mercury by Emery

…as well as Under Bridges by Brave Saint Saturn and Mr. Fahrenheit by Five Iron Frenzy.

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

Danielle Shroyer is a spiritual director, former pastor, speaker and author of Original Blessing and The Boundary-Breaking God. You can follow her on twitter.

You can listen to the two Blindside songs here and here. 

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

Our favorite book by Pádraig is In the Shelter, which was just re-relased last month with a foreward from Krista Tippet. 

You can follow him on twitter and instagram.

You can follow Heather Patton Griffin on twitter - she has so many great twitter threads on these topics!

You heard a voicemail from Zech Bard in this episode - who also did the wonderful artwork for the season!

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You can listen to the two Underoath songs here and here. 

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

Hillary McBride is the author of Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image. You can listen to her whole talk on emotions at Cascade Church (it’s great!). You can follow her on twitter and instagram.

Joel Harrison is currently working on a book tentatively titled “Palms of Victory, Crowns of Glory: Evangelical Political Identity and Underground Christian Punk.” You can follow him on twitter here.

Soong Chan Rah references Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes’ book I Bring the Voices of My People and The Burden of Black Religion by Chris Evans.

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You can listen to To Think of You is to Treasure a Distant Memory by Zao here. Check out the live video Krispin mentions here. 

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

You can follow Becky Castle Miller on twitter, instagram and buy her books here. Her full 50-minute interview is up over at Attached to the Invisible, where she talks more in depth about emotions, evangelicalism, and what following Jesus in our emotional life looks like. Here’s Bill Bright’s Four Spiritual Laws that Becky refers to in her interview. 

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Songs in this episode:

Adam, Soiled Rags and A Life Wasted Sleeping,by Nodes of Ranvier.

Memphis Will Be Laid to Waste by Norma Jean with Aaron Weiss with audio from a live recording from Furnace Fest 2002.

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You can support the show by becoming a patreon. 

You can follow the show on twitter and instagram, and visit our website. 

You can follow Krispin at twitter and instagram and sign up for a monthly email about attachment, spirituality and evangelicalism here. 

You can follow DL on twitter and instagram, and buy her books here. 

Send us an email!

Zech Bard designed artwork for the season and Forrest Johnson wrote and recorded theme music. 

The soundtrack for Electric Jesus just released, and is filled with both Christian hair metal and Danielson’s weird indie rock. 

We’ve been a longtime of fan of Daniel Smith’s music as Daielson, and one of our favorite albums is Fetch the Compass Kids.

You can watch a whole documentary about Danielson here and it is wonderful.

Here is the Believer article about Danielson that D.L. mentions.

Next week, we’ll really dive into talking about Christian hardcore and the emotional experience of growing up evangelical. 

You can follow the podcast on twitter or instagram, where D.L. will post pictures of her punk rock days. 

Become a patreon and support the podcast for as little at $1.50 a month.

Also, you can send us an email!

You can follow Krispin on twitter or instagram, and DL. on twitter and instagram.

D.L.’s most recent book The Myth of the American Dream is also available! 

Become a Patreon for $1.50, $4 or $8 per month and get monthly episodes like this one and dive into our back catalogue of episodes about WOW 1999, Brio Magazine and other evangelical artifacts

Our 6th season, Shamecore Records is coming in March!

Join us at our Patreon for some patreon-only episodes until then!

You can follow her on instagram, twitter and tumbler, support her on Patreon, and buy prints of her work in her online store.

SHAMECORE RECORDS will be the 6th season of our podcast. Listen to the trailer here, and if you love (or loved) heavy Christian music, leave us a voicemail!

Have any lingering questions about Narnia? We are wrapping up next week, so hit us up with questions on twitter or at propheticimaginationstation@gmail.com.

A few highlights from our conversation:

Was C.S. Lewis a univeralist? Sort of. 

Discussed the book Roar!: A Christian Family Guide To The Chronicles Of Narnia

Taylor points out that having some good brown people doesn’t make The Last Battle not racist, it’s just tokenism. 

The idea that myths point to Jesus is invalidating… “your beliefs and stories are valuable because they are secretly about Jesus and you don’t know it yet.” 

This book bring up the question: Is death good? The Pevenses watch the world end and its a positive experience. 

Calormen gets all the criticism for sacrifice, while there’s a sacrificial slab (stone table) right in the middle of Narnia.

Religion often pushes away death anxiety, so we don’t get a chance to make peace with it. 

  Much of the time, Lewis was having fun… he wasn’t THAT intentional.

Lewis’ themes are beyond Christianity. 

 We can see the limits of Lewis’ imagination, and where his imagination pushed the limits of his context. 

Racism in The Last Battle is possibly worst than Horse & His Boy.

Is Tash Satan? That’s certainly up for debate.

Taylor believes that Narnia is a world of henotheism, where western gods are good characters, eastern gods are not. 

We discuss how to navigate relationships when you those in your life dismiss the significance of this event.

D.L. explains the relational follow-out that occurred in Germany, as D.L. discusses the book Frauen by Owings.

If you were disappointed with your church's response yesterday (Sunday Jan 10) to this insurrection, it's unlikely to get any better from here on out. It’s super important to find a supportive spiritual community, if you’re able to!

Also she’s a great twitter follow. 

“The Chronicles of Narnia was required reading for homeschoolers.”

Anyone else remember Abeka homeschool curriculum?! 

D.L. wrote this piece on reading Little House on the Prairie with kids. 

"Aslan is a drama queen"… (remember how Mr. Whitaker, drama queen for the patriarchy in Season 4 of Prophetic Imagination Station?)

Rereading our childhood favorites actually is a good place to start reading with a decolonize lens. We are already comfortable with them - but it takes a lot of extra time. 

Krispin grew up with Hannah Barbarra Bible videos like these. 

No art is perfect - but sometimes it’s not worth the energy and time it takes to wade through it.

Krispin mentions Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria by Beverly Daniel Tatum

Thank you Matt and patrons for a wonderful evening! You can sign up and be a part of events like these, and more, at www.patreon.com/dlmayfield

Become a patreon of the podcast at www.patreon.com/dlmayfield and join us for a Narnia Q&A Wednesday night, Dec 16 (6pm pacific / 9pm eastern). 

The Highlights:

Aslan’s How: a house put together by Dr. Garry Friesan for male students attending Multnomah University (Multnomah Bible College when we went there).

Paul mentions the best box set being this one and we agree. 

Lewis’ favorite author/theologian was named George McDonald. He was a Victorian era preacher and fantasy writer known for his heretical views. 

Phantastes by MacDonald, Lewis said, “baptized his imagination”. 

The Silver Chair synopsis. The Silver Chair also includes one of the best characters in Lewis’ canon, Puddleglum

Michael Ward wrote a book on the Narnia stories being linked to medieval conceptions of various planets. Check out his website, Planet Narnia. 

Why hasn’t The Silver Chair been made into a major motion picture?

The Silver Chair corresponds to Luna, or the moon. 

The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross is an initiatory moment.

Holy Darkness is different and holds richness because they dwell in obscurity or shadow, which is present in Godself. The Scriptures say that God dwells in deep darkness.

He holds an MA degree in English literature from the University of Tehran, with a thesis entitled “Christianized Archetypes in The Chronicles of Narnia”, in which he argues that the psychological ideas of Carl Gustav Jung might have influenced Lewis’s The Chronicles of Narnia, while Lewis, as a devout Christian, gives these ideas a Christian touch, modifying them wherever they contradict Christian doctrines. He is currently translating Fernando Aramburu’s Patria into Persian

Calormen is the country south of Narnia in the books--appearing most prominently in The Horse and His Boy and also The Last Battle. Calormen is obviously an Eastern/Oriental culture compared to Narnia’s northern European culture. 

Calormen culturally, according to Shafiee-Nasab, is a mixture of Arabic and Persian and Turkish elements: long beards and dark skin and upturned shoes. 

“Aslan” comes from a Turkish word which means lion. It’s also the name of one of the characters in Arabian Nights, a work which greatly influenced C. S. Lewis. Other influences from this book show up in Narnia, including naming the boy prince Caspian after the Caspian Sea.

Lewis was interested in psychology but was not a fan of Freud. But he found Carl Jung to have a more humane version of psychology. Shafiee-Nasab believes Lewis’ interest in Jung contributes to some of the archetypes in his work, including the figures of Aslan and Tash--and how people end up responding to a false Aslan because of their mental image of his. 

Lewis was also influenced by Dante, and possibly by his depiction of Islam in in works. Along with that, in old Persian Tash (the God of death in the Narnia world) means fire. 

How do we deal with the orientalism/racism underlying works like The Horse and His Boy? One thing we can do is wonder why there was such an appetite for works like Narnia while Persian/Islamic epics continue to be ignored. One such example is that one of the most famous Irianian books ever written--The Epic of Kings--still has yet to be completely translated into English. 

Before you listen to the podcast, maybe check out this wonderful summary Kat Coffin wrote on The Problem of Susan here.

Or read this quick Twitter thread summary 

Here’s the passage in The Last Battle that makes people so upset about Susan not getting into Aslan’s Country. 

JK Rowling on Susan Pevensie and Lewis: “There comes a point where Susan, who was the older girl, is lost to Narnia because she becomes interested in lipstick. She’s become irreligious basically because she found sex. I have a big problem with that.”

Neil Gaiman wrote a short story called The Problem of Susan (which we do not necessarily recommend reading as it is . . . intense.)

C.S. Lewis was a lot like Susan!

Lewis eventually became friends with Dorothy L Sayers and then befriended and married Joy Davidman. An American communist from Brooklyn! 

Till We Have Faces--Lewis’ last novel, which was basically co-written with Joy Davidman

A Grief Observed--Lewis’ book on his marriage

“CS Lewis is not as evangelical as evangelicals want him to be but he’s not as progressive as I want him to be.” -- Kat Coffin

George MacDonald, one of Lewis’ main literary mentors, was a universalist. Krispin mentions The Evangelical Universalist, by Robin Parry, which was originally published under the pen name Gregory MacDonald, as a nod to George MacDonald. 

Shadowlands is the film about Lewis’ life and marriage to Joy. As Kat Coffin points out, there are elements of it that have been edited to fit the intended audience, so keep that in mind!

Find Kat on Twitter Instagram Blog 

Matt Mikalatos is the author of the Sunlit Lands fantasy trilogy, starting with The Crescent Stone. He also writes a bi-weekly column about C.S. Lewis at Tor.com. You can connect with him at www.mikalatos.com.

Matt writes about a wide variety of Narnia-related content for Tor. Here is a link to his piece on Eustace and spiritual formation. 

Matt describes The Voyage of the Dawn Treader as a travelogue or spiritual pilgrimage novel. 

Books which influenced Lewis in this genre include”

The journeys of at Benedict

The Travels of Sir John Mandeville

Dante’s Paradiso

What is the deal with Eustace? Matt says that Lewis was saying that intense secularism is the main problem for Eustace--he doesn’t read the write books, believe in magic, or even know what a dragon is!

Matt mentions the Jewish ritual bath called Mikvah. For more information on that, go here. 

Matt mentions Mark Charles and his numerous books and talks on white supremacy. We are big fans of Mark Charles, go check him out!

You can find Matt Mikalatos on Twitter and Facebook and if you are interested in his books (which you should be by now!) go check out The Sunlit Lands. 

Emily Metcalf is a scholar and artist who focuses on Tolkein and Lewis in both areas. You can find her website with links to her shop here (we highly recommend checking out her Tolkien inspired watercolors!). In today’s interview, she discusses with DL a recent paper she wrote on Lewis’ view of patriotism. 

C.S. Lewis wrote often about the four loves. Go here if you want to learn more about them. 

Emily describes the various forms of patriotism as understood by Lewis, from what he considers a “normal” love of country all the way to toxic nationalism. 

In her paper, Emily describes Lewis’s understanding of the five degrees of patriotism as: “love of home, veneration of national/cultural history, assumption of superiority, rights to power, and finally, self destruction.”

Just in case you can’t remember the plot of Prince Caspian, use this as a refresher. 

One of the twitter handles mentioned is Diverse Tolkien. Go check it out! 

You can find Emily Metcalf (Emily Austin is her artist name) on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. 

Follow The Prophetic Imagination Station podcast on Twitter or Instagram, or join the fun over at Patreon!

For a stroll down memory lane, you can watch the BBC version on youtube. 

Sign up for our patreon here to hear our patreon-only episode next week about Focus on the Family and how they’ve influenced evangelicals to vote republican for decades. 

Thanks to Rich Villodas for his Dear Wormwood tweet.  

Mako Nagasawa served a Spanish-speaking ministry to Mexican immigrants in East Palo Alto, CA and afterward, worked for two startup companies trying to bring technology and jobs to inner city communities. Since 2000, Mako, his wife Ming, and their two children John and Zoe have lived among friends in a Christian intentional community house in a black and brown neighborhood in Dorchester. Mako has done campus ministry since 2001 and founded The Anástasis Center in 2014.

Mako’s website (with lots of links and articles!)

Mako’s FB group: Healing Atonement and Restorative Justice.

He helped develop a financial curriculum called Lazarus at the Gate, as well as a small group curriculum about

Check out Mako’s interview with Almost Heretical about atonement theories and how Penal Substitutionary Atonement has impacted US politics.

Mako has a whole academic paper on C.S. Lewis’ Theory of Atonement, that you can read here! (also, check out Mako’s take on theology and Harry Potter here and Lord of the Rings here)

Mere Christianity quote: Only a bad person needs to repent only a good person can repent perfectly, Jesus is the only one who could push human nature where it needs to be pushed. (12 min). 

We discuss “survival emotions” of anxiety and guilt, relief and gratitude evoked by Penal Substitution Atonement. (14 min)

Athanasius: On Incarnation (CS Lewis wrote the introduction, which you can read here). 

Jesus died to burn away the corrupt nature of humanity. It’s a medical paradigm, not a legal paradigm. 

Dr. Sonya Cronin teaches classes both on the Hebrew Scriptures and Fantasy Literature--which makes her the perfect guest for this podcast. You can visit this site to learn more about her, including her books (and she is currently working on one about the gospel of Mark!). 

We reference the recent controversy surrounding JK Rowling and her recent anti-trans public statements. You can learn more about this situation here. 

Krispin references his interview with Connie Baker about interacting with authors who are problematic. You can listen to his interview with her about spiritual abuse here. 

Dr. Cronin references Philip Pullman, saying “Fantasy is a safe space to learn the virtues of the world, in a way that is not quite ‘thou shall’. ‘Once a upon a time’ does something for us that ‘thou shall and thou shalt not’ just doesn’t do.” (11:54)

When talking about Lewis and Tolkein they must be set in their context, the 1950s--including their portrayals of women. 

Lewis was considered safe for evangelicals because before he ever wrote fantasy he wrote apologetics--so we knew exactly what he believed. (25 min)

Harry was created a wizard — the idea of being created to be something is very much connected to the Christian tradition.  

Christian responses to Harry Potter: 

Richard Abanes wrote Harry Potter and the Bible: The Menace behind the Magik

John Granger is a Christian who says we SHOULD read these books. - 35min

Become a patreon here , beginning at $1.50/month and get a monthly episode, access to our facebook group and more!

Buy her incredibly detailed, thoughtful, academic book Re-Enchanted: The Rise of Children’s Fantasy Literature in the Twentieth Century

Questions to consider when reading books like The Chronicles of Narnia:

What are these stories, what are they doing, and how did they become so ingrained in American culture? How do these stories both aliant people and enchant them at the same time? How do we re-evaluate classics? How can we get better at interrogating what are classics?

Cecire on experiencing “the moment” when she realized she didn’t see herself represented in fantasy stories: “I looked in the mirror and it hit me like a ton of bricks: I would never be a blonde-haired blue-eyed fairy tale princess and that those stories were just not about me.”

Tolkein and Lewis were anti-modernists, and they were able to overhaul the English curriculum at Oxford to focus on the middle ages--choices that had ripple effects for generations. 

Second wave of the oxford school of children’s literature includes people like Susan Cooper (Dark is Rising) Diana Wynn Jones (Howl’s Moving Castle), Phillip Pullman (His Dark Materials), Kevin Crossly Holland (Arthur Trilogy)--and influenced people like J.K. Rowling. 

Thanks to Lewis and his curriculum developed at Oxford we have seen a major push in Children’s Fantasy Writing-- all about Arthurian Legends, Medieval texts,and reworking them for the 20th writing. These books are serious about the magic, but incredibly Northern Euro-centric. 

Peoples of Africa descending from Ham. (28:00) -- this comes directly from Christianity

“I am an academic so I think visiting, rereading, and thinking about books in general is a good thing . . . Remember that humans are complicated and our artistic productions are complicated.” (30:38)

You can identify pleasures or desires in your life that you would not like to carry forward.

Cecire references authors Nnedi Okorafor and the Binti series, N.K. Jemisin and Saladin Ahmend Throne of the crescent moon as different narratives to contrast with Lewis/The Horse and His Boy.

D.L. mentions reading Birchbark House series in conjunction with the Little House books to her daughter. Read her essay on it here. 

Rhodes must fall (39:40)

Twitter: https://twitter.com/mscecire

Website: https://mariacecire.wordpress.com/

American Library Association Great Stories Club

For a good overview of the seven books in the Chronicles of Narnia, go here. 

The main biographies D.L. read to prepare for this season were The Narnian by Alan Jacobs (someone who unabashedly loves Lewis and writes his bio accordingly), and The Magician’s Book: A Skeptic’s Adventures in Narnia by Laura Miller (who writes as a non-Christian about her love for the books). 

Fake CS Lewis quotes are everywhere! If you find any good ones, please send them to us at propheticimaginationstation@gmail.com so we can use them in upcoming “My Dear Wormwood” segments.

According to this site, less than 5% of people in England attend church services regularly (and this was before Brexit!). 

Click here to buy The Myth of the American Dream where D.L. mentions C.S. Lewis four times!!!

Come join us on Patreon for as little as $1.50 a month and hear our monthly patreon-only podcasts and join our Facebook group! 

Stay tuned for next week, when we interview Maria Sachiko Cecire, professor of literature at Bard college and the author of Re-Enchanted (an excellent book!). 

Watch Davy & Goliath: Blind Man's Bluff

Watch Phil Vischer's video on Race in America

In this episode we reference:

I Bring the Voices of My People by Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes,

The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby

Divided by Faith by Emerson & Smith.

TW: We discuss sexual abuse.

Check out Danielle's new book, The Myth of the American Dream! We mention in the episode.

And don't miss our discussion of WOW 1999 on our patreon-only podcast.

Note for those listening, there is some discussion of sensitive topics, including abuse. RAINN is a great resource for sexual abuse survivors, including live chat and phone options for support.

Here is his piece on conspiracy theories and why our brains love them for Popular Mechanics. 

5 min: Brief mention of Janette Oke. For those who aren’t familiar, she is the woman who brought us the whole Canadian Christian mountie romance trope. It’s a real thing! 

9:20: “Our brains want both suspicion and they want simplicity; and that’s problematic because life gives us a lot of reasons to be afraid and life is also super complex. And so what we do is grab hold of shortcuts that make us feel better.”

“We want a simple explanation for life, even if that explanation is kind of horrifying--it makes us feel better, because at least we know where the danger is.”

15: “Conspiratorial thinking is 100 percent about trying to find safety, control, and simplicity in a world that is not that way.”

33: Joshua’s article on narcissism is called Bill Gothard’s Fundementalist Trap for The New Republic.

Intro:

Hi, we are going stir-crazy so we did a lip sync to Carman’s song Satan Bite the Dust. And you know what? It’s pretty good! (Here’s a link to the actual Carman approved video for Satan bite the Dust)

12: jack chick Halloween tract

21: yo kids/RIOT/

25: Myth of the American Dream

26: Mid faith crisis exile (episode 79)

28: James Alison On Being Liked

30: T-bone Demon Executor (the electric chair song)

30: Krispin’s rap

32: Todd Bently 

44: sling bang boom (with Hanson!)

45: Addicted 2 Jesus (with DC Talk!)

Summing up what prayer is in This Present Darkness: “Our prayers were like the batteries that energized the angels”

The title of the book comes from Ephesians 6:12: “For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” (NRSV)

9 min: Jersak mentions YWAM and Fuller Seminary teaching spiritual warfare/classes on signs and wonders. He also mentions Peter Wagner, John Wimber, and Chuck Kraft. Please click on the links for more information. 

On why horror movies and conspiracy theory books are popular: “We like to face our fears in the context of something we have control over.”

16: D.L. mentions Todd Bentley, a charismatic preacher recently in the news again. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole? OK, here you go. 

35: Jersak mentions moralism in his book, A More Christlike Way.

40: “The weapons of the world are force, and that’s not how Jesus came and overcame everything. He came to surrender to the will of his father.”

50: Book recommendations on connecting to Jesus: Can You Hear me? Tuning in to the God who Speaks

“I wasn’t taught to interpret Scripture. I was just given Scripture and told to do it.”

19 min: Peretti’s books were a spiritualization of the culture wars which launched in the 1980s through the moral majority. 

26 min: Viv Grigg says that the “powers” move us away from the ethics of God. What does it mean to be ruled by God? It means to come under the constitution of God. Belief for the Hebrews was not a mind thing, it was in the body, and it has to be lived out in the world. And that’s what ethics are. 

31 min: In the book Divided by Faith: Evangelical Religion and the Problem of Race in America the authors state that the one way for white evangelicals to change their worldview is to be immersed in communities that are unlike themselves

32 min: “The good news is that Jesus, the king of the kingdom of God, has come to earth to confront the powers of the earth who are hell bent on crushing the image of God.”

40 min: Recommendations for people who are deconstructing but still want to be aware of power and principalities: immerse yourself in the teachings of communities of color. 

The Very Good Gospel: How Everything Wrong Can be Made Right by Lisa Sharon Harper

The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone

Jesus and the Disinherited by Howard Thurman 

Stand Your Ground: Black Bodies and the Justice of God by Kelly Brown Douglas

In many ways it is a uniquely European and western project to separate the spirit and the body and to secularize the world. 

48 min: “I think that the unspoken project of western civilization has been to usurp God, to become God, to control everything.”

49:30 Race: A Theological Account by J. Kameron Carter. 

“The only way to live without connection to the spirit world is to think that you are God, and to live at a level where you don’t experience oppression, where you ARE the powers.” 

“I really believe that it was used to forward a political movement, and it was one that was consciously galvanizing white evangelicals to rally around a political ideology that they knew . . . would ultimately result in the winning of the original culture war, which began with Brown V. the Board of Education.” The culture war is not just about sexual politics, but it is also about race. It is about the desired rule and control of white men over space. 

49 min: “The Spirit of God comes against oppression.”

D.L. recommends William Stringfellow’s book An Ethic for Christians and other Aliens in a Strange Land. A white theologian in the 70s, his understanding of principalities in the Bible shifts from the personal to the institutional. 

We would also love to share any and all stories you might want to share about your own experiences growing up and learning about spiritual warfare. Drop a story in the comments or email us at propheticimaginationstation@gmail.com.

If you are interested in the Faith in an Age of Fear conference DL mentions, check out the eventbrite here. We would love to see you there! 

Interview with Daniel Silliman, (on twitter @danielsilliman) whose PHD dissertation was on the history of best-selling evangelical novels. He specifically looked at the five novels which changed evangelical publishing in a significant way and sold over a million copies. Those books were:

Love Comes Softly (1979) by Janette Oke

This Present Darkness (1986) by Frank Peretti

Left Behind by Tim Lahaye and (1996) Jerry B. Jenkins

The Shunning (1997) by Beverly Lewis

The Shack by (2007) by William Paul Young

Silliman recounts how the evangelical fiction market primarily courted female book buyers with Christian romance novels, and how Peretti and his “Christian horror” was a new risky genre.

21 min: Silliman mentions Francis Schaeffer and his beliefs on worldviews influencing Crossway publishing to branch out into books like This Present Darkness.

28 min: Silliman gets into the background of Amy Grant and her personal and professional troubles, and why this led to her being so drawn to a little book called This Present Darkness. 

Here’s a link to an LA times piece about Amy Grant being credited for the sales bump, with this particular jewel of a quote from Lane Dennis, CEO of Crossway (Peretti’s publisher): “He has written a book for the so-called Moral Majority. They can hold this up and say, ‘This is how I see the world.”

37: min Jack Chick Tracts and demons.

24 min: TW Sexual Abuse in TPD. Here is a link to R. L. Stollar’s original tweet thread. 

Intro: music by Krispin Mayfield (indebted to the song “Ashton” by Michael W. Smith. Voice clips from pastor Steve Waldon and his youtube channel, where he reviewed This Present Darkness in 2018. 

This Present Darkness Wikipedia page. 

This Present Darkness sparknotes (short summary for those who are curious).  

This Lying Survivor: Frank E. Peretti and Evangelical Fears about False Abuse Allegations by R.L. Stollar for Fathom Magazine. 

39 min: Frank Peretti book on bullying called The Wounded Spirit.