Owning your platform and content: Creators should control their own domains and archives instead of relying solely on LinkedIn, Substack, or other platforms. Angela is moving her LinkedIn archive to her own site, calling it a permanent “home on the internet” where all her work can live.

Consistency over perfection: Publish when your message is clear instead of chasing tiny improvements. More “at bats” builds consistency faster than endless polishing.

Love for the craft: Enjoying the work itself helps avoid burnout and sustain creativity for the long run.

Rethinking monetization: Choose models that complement your work, like using content as a lead magnet for an email list instead of adding new “jobs” through strict paywalls.

This conversation explores how to build a life around publishing — creating lasting value by focusing on what matters most to you and your audience.

Topics include:
• Replacing daily posting habits with long-form writing
• Why a newsletter is a better foundation than social media
• Website strategies and owning your content
• Hosting Zoom calls and building a deeper creative community
• Letting projects “cook” and resisting the instant-gratification trap

Recorded live on Substack, July 2025.

Do I want to click on their About page?

Do I want to click on their Category page?

Remember the blog post? Here’s a photo, then here’s the full text. And then there was the next one.

What else does that look like?

Instagram!

Photo, text. Photo, text.

It works.

But all our websites are just set up like freaking grocery stores instead of IKEA, where when you walk in IKEA—you’re led, you’re given a path to follow.

1. You need a space that’s truly yours (and feels safe to show up in)
2. Real community comes from real connection
3. Leading something long-term? set boundaries, stay sane
4. Start small, try stuff, be okay with messy
5. Chase meaning, not just follower counts

We talked about slowing that reflex down and prioritizing email subscribers instead—saving strong ideas for newsletters, reposting things from Notes into emails so subscribers actually see them, and measuring success by retention rather than public subscriber counts. The emphasis was on engagement, keeping people on the list, and treating email as the primary channel rather than chasing visibility inside Substack itself. 

We also covered practical approaches to writing, video, and business models on Substack. That included writing in a way that feels natural, publishing without waiting for perfection, and getting comfortable sending work to small groups before larger audiences. 

On the business side, we talked about proximity, like keeping most work public while charging for closer access through Zoom calls or live discussions, and using Substack as a tool that supports existing goals rather than becoming another platform to manage. We also discussed live video formats, replays, YouTube workarounds, and treating Substack as a professional practice without overcomplicating the model. 

Get Laura’s music on Bandcamp!

And check out her new album here: https://oliviarafferty.bandcamp.com/album/typical-forever

Chuck also talked about Life in Michigan, the website and newsletter he runs with his wife, Brenda, which focuses on local beer, music, and travel in Michigan.

They discussed their move to Substack for their newsletter and the positive, more community-focused experience compared to social media.

Finally, we touched on the thriving local Michigan music scene, the abundance of talented artists, and the role of curation in helping people discover new music - because new music is great!

He talked about all the toys and other fun items he collects, and I was reading the part of Austin Kleon’s ‘Show Your Work’ where he talked “Don’t be a hoarder,” and I’m so glad Sean isn’t hiding his fun decor - I think you’ll appreciate this interview!

• Directly reaching your audience with an email list
• Building trust in your work and how you present yourself
• Approaching the business side of all this creatively
• Be the Roomba
• Getting back to TALKING again, in person

Be sure to subscribe to The Mad Records Monologue to keep up to date with everything Michael is doing:
https://madrecords.substack.com/

• Owning your work and backing it up.
• Why waiting to be "discovered" is a flawed.
• How email and direct outreach beat relying on social media algorithms.
• Focusing on conversations and connections instead of chasing numbers.

https://botharetrue.substack.com/

Sustainable can mean a lot of things, but we found in our conversation that it means ease, calm, peace. Like sharing resources, and solving problems together.

Sara Eckel wrote about this in ‘The People Who Don't Want You to Sleep,’

Eckel references the the book Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention--And How to Think Deeply Again, in which former Google design ethicist Tristan Harris says “You can try having self-control, but there are a thousand engineers on the other side of the screen working against you.”

Breaking this habit takes more than just deleting the apps. It takes intentional action, which is what Joi Katskee is doing.

Joi (pronounced Joe-ee) runs Electric Radio Club, a weekly two hour radio show. But she also started bringing people together in real spaces to talk about music (watch the video above for the whole story).

Sure, it’s always going to be hard work to get the word out and get people to come out, but whoever shows up, well, that’s who shows up.

This is the work worth doing because it builds real world connection, unfazed by algorithms or “reach.” Social media platforms fear this, since now they are the ones missing out, unable to monetize our gathering and sell our data to advertisers.
So how could you apply this to your work? How do you get closer to the people who enjoy your art? What does it look like to do that in s sustainable way?

Years ago I ran a Patreon for my heavy metal trivia project called Skull Toaster.

That was bringing in $240/mo, and I was sending out a lot of stuff every month. Zines. Mystery metal CDs that I’d buy at the local music store. People could sponsor questions, and I’d make those hand written THANKS images and put them on social media.

I did a few virtual metal trivia hang outs, but I should have done more. I hid behind the social media posts because I was terrified of getting my questions wrong in a live space.

But like Scott Perry recently told me, “fear is a compass. It only shows up when we’re pointed in a direction worth exploring.”

What would happen if you did a Zoom call with the people who follow your work? Or if you planned a small dinner with other creative people in your orbit?

Say we use the internet as a tool to make the plans, and then we close the laptop and build with the handful of people in front of us - then what?

What could we do that we’re avoiding because we’re scared?

• Raise our rates? Fire that client?
• Post that musical performance from our bedroom on YouTube?
• Delete your music from Spotify? Delete Instagram from your phone?
• Join that class. Teach that class?

And what are we hiding behind?

• Making a dozen more vertical videos for 2% of your fans to see?
• Updating our About page for the 20th time this week?
• Spinning our wheels trying to get our website to look just right?
• Waiting to reach a certain number of followers before we believe in ourselves?

You know what the scary thing is. Now go do it.

Being in the right room is an elusive destination for many creative people, mostly because we find it very easy to be in the wrong room on many occasions.

Colin and I talked about our friends Diana Pappas and Tom Bland, who recently set up at a local art fair, and it didn’t go so well:

Colin set out to get into vibrant spaces with a well-curated collection of artistic sellers, filled with people who appreciated a photo book like NOICE Nᵒ.001 and were willing to drop $60 to own a copy.

Most definitely the right room.

Diana and Tom are professionals and shared what they learned from their experience.

Their newsletter Writing With Light is one of their right rooms, a space that contains their people. The people who signed up said, “Yes, I enjoy your work and would like to know more.”

So much of what we’re all doing online is trying to get into the right rooms.

Social media platforms have convinced us that they’re the right room to be in - if you sell photo books and art prints, well, people who like photo books and art prints are there, just waiting to buy from you.

However, the problem is that social media is for everyone, like the food court at the mall, serving the loudest, most broadly appealing items to everyone all the time.

If you make Dungeon Synth noise pop or lunch meat surrealist artwork, then it’s possible that the modern social media network isn’t the right room for you.

Avoiding the wrong rooms takes time and patience, which is why I keep talking about finding (or starting) a community to learn and grow together, to speed up the years of “trial and error.”

• If you’re a musician, join Dedicate Your Life To Music for weekly group calls and learn from an industry pro and a group of musicians from all levels.
• If you’re an artist, you could join the Introvert Drawing Club and spend time with other artistic individuals.
• If you want to leave social media, you could join my weekly Escape Pod Zoom calls and start your adventure with other creative folks on the same journey.
• Scott Perry’s Solopreneur Success Circle has actionable concepts for business and life, and plenty of dad jokes.

You could scour Reddit threads and watch 100 hours of YouTube videos. Or you could join a community like the ones above (or start your own) and learn alongside real people who’ll encourage you on your journey.

Don’t leave it to luck to get into the right rooms. Spend the time and energy on building connections and learning through others to get you to the new heights you seek.

// Watch the full interview video with Colin here.

• Segments!
• Using lead magnets!
• Creative bothering (Cody came up with that one during this interview)!
• Flodesk
• Zapier
• Cody’s Newsletter class
• Substack’s Recommendations

See How Teenage Wrist Promote Their Tour By Telling a Story
Seth Werkheiser

• Teenage Wrist email (web version)
• “Marketing is a creative practice.”
• “Creative bothering”