The discussion explores how a holistic, character-based philosophy, known as "The Citywise Way," provides consistent support and role models, creating clear pathways from primary school right through to third-level education. Key topics include integrating STEM programs like computer coding and robotics, the importance of long-term involvement, and the potential of community organizations to boost school leadership capacity and student opportunity.

Joining host Brian O'Doherty is Daire Hennessy, CEO of the charity Citywise Education. With a background in business economics and social policy, Daire is also a past participant of Citywise, offering a unique perspective on the power of community-based leadership to drive profound, positive change.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

Tackling educational underachievement and community
Programs link with primary schools
Character education: The Citywise Way
Role model's pathway to CEO
Advocating for alternative education support

GUEST DETAILS

Daire is a past participant, volunteer and staff member of Citywise Education. He first got involved in Citywise programmes when he was eight years old. With the support of Citywise he went on to study Business, Economics and Social Studies at Trinity College Dublin and a master's degree in social policy. 

He is now the CEO of Citywise having previously worked with the Trinity Access Programmes, coordinating the national college awareness campaign and leading a large-scale mentoring programme across six higher education institutions. 

He actively contributes to education and youth policy as a member of the local authority’s Community Strategic Policy Committee and is a member of the Young Ireland Advisory Council for Ireland's youth policy.  

MORE INFORMATION

IPPN is the officially-recognised, professional network for leaders of Irish primary schools. It is an
independent, not-for-profit, voluntary association, with a local, regional and national presence.

It provides practical resources, professional learning, and peer support to strengthen leadership capacity and sustainability. IPPN also advocates on behalf of school leaders, ensuring their perspectives influence education policy and practice. 

Learn more about IPPN and our work at ippn.ie
Our podcast is produced by dustpod.io

QUOTES

So essentially, we're trying to get young people in the door at a very early age, so age of eight. - Daire Hennessy

A big part of that work is, I always say, cross pollination, or basically, the young person might come because they're interested in something, but you stay for the people - Daire Hennessy

KEYWORDS: #SchoolAchievement #PrimaryLeaders #CommunityPartners #CharacterBuilding #AlternativeSupports

Host Brian O'Doherty speaks with Professor Patricia Mannix McNamara about how the sector must shift its focus from merely sustainable leadership to enabling leaders to truly flourish. They delve into the origins and decade-long impact of the Postgraduate Diploma in School Leadership (PDSL), balancing theory with practice, and the collaborative advantage of uniting primary and post-primary leaders. Crucially, they explore the systemic and personal changes required to protect the wellbeing of those at the helm.

Patricia Mannix McNamara is the Director of Human Rights and EDI at the University of Limerick and an established Professor. She is a leading voice in human-centered leadership, organizational culture, and human rights, committed to supporting school leaders.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

Vision for PDSL: demystifying school leadership
Balancing theory to scaffold leader practice.
Collaborative advantage of cross-sectoral learning.
Moving beyond sustainable to flourishing leadership.
Systemic conditions for leader well-being.

GUEST DETAILS

Patricia Mannix McNamara is the Director of Human Rights and EDI at the University of Limerick, where she is also an established Professor. She advocates for human-centered leadership and has researched workplace culture for almost 30 years. Her main skills and contributions include leadership coaching, mentoring, and opening up the space for the humanity of leadership.

MORE INFORMATION

IPPN is the officially-recognised, professional network for leaders of Irish primary schools. It is an

independent, not-for-profit, voluntary association, with a local, regional and national presence.

It provides practical resources, professional learning, and peer support to strengthen leadership capacity and sustainability. IPPN also advocates on behalf of school leaders, ensuring their perspectives influence education policy and practice. 

Learn more about IPPN and our work at ippn.ie

Our podcast is produced by dustpod.io

QUOTES

The space for a school leader to thrive and grow is as important, as important as the space for a child in that school to thrive and grow. - Patricia Mannix McNamara

I believe that if you're going to be leading people, you should have some professional development in leadership. - Patricia Mannix McNamara

I think it's really important for creating a sense within those graduates of the need for kindness and care and human centred leadership. - Patricia Mannix McNamara

KEYWORDS: #FlourishingLeadership #SchoolCulture #PDSL #MiddleLeadership #EducationalLeadership

Arriving at the end of COVID to lead 60+ masked staff she'd never met, Caroline made a crucial decision: spend September meeting every staff member individually before implementing any changes. This listening-first approach helped her understand existing expertise and build trust before transformation.

Those conversations led to key innovations which prevented burnout, built whole-school capacity, and shifted the culture from reactive to proactive behaviour strategies, making both students and staff feel genuinely safe.

Join us to hear practical strategies for leading change, preventing specialist burnout, and building effective transition programmes that prepare students with complex needs for adult life through real community partnerships with hairdressers, libraries, and cafés.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

•  Meeting every staff member before changing anything
•  Mixing classes and building whole school approach to needs
•  Reactive to proactive behaviour strategies making students and staff feel safe at school
•  How new classrooms impact on the physical environment matters as much as staff
•  Community links transition programme to give students real life skills

GUEST DETAILS

Caroline Sheill is the principal of St Michael's House Special National School in Ballymun, serving 64 students aged 5-18 with moderate to severe/profound intellectual disabilities (28 with autism diagnoses, many with complex medical needs requiring four nurses on staff). Her journey to education was unconventional—working 12 years in a multinational's accounts department then customer service before realizing during maternity leave with her second child that she wanted a career allowing more family time.

MORE INFORMATION

IPPN is the officially-recognised, professional network for leaders of Irish primary schools. It is an independent, not-for-profit, voluntary association, with a local, regional and national presence.

It provides practical resources, professional learning, and peer support to strengthen leadership capacity and sustainability. IPPN also advocates on behalf of school leaders, ensuring their perspectives influence education policy and practice.

Learn more about IPPN and our work at ippn.ie

Our podcast is produced by dustpod.io

QUOTES

•  I decided for the month of September, I was going to meet every single member of staff individually before I changed anything. That was the start. - Caroline Sheill
•  I wanted to talk to every single one of them and get an opinion from every one of them about the good and the bad in the school. That was the first time staff said they really felt acknowledged for the skill sets they had. - Caroline Sheill
•  To get to the teaching and learning, we had to sit down and go: How can we make this safe so our children feel they don't have to be anxious coming to school? - Caroline Sheill
•  I'm extremely proud of the community links we've formed over the last two to three years. Our 17 and 18 year olds can be quite forgotten in special schools—still under primary curriculum. Our young adults have started going out doing work placements - Caroline Sheill

KEYWORDS

#specialSchoolLeadership #behaviourSupport #communityLinks #physicalEnvironment #transitionProgramme

Gemma champions genuine inclusion through relationships, every staff member knows every child's name, story, and family. The autism class is integral to school life, not isolated in a separate wing. As a parent of an autistic son thriving in mainstream education, she understands how crucial skilled SNAs are, calling them the "golden ticket" to inclusion.

Teachers will learn practical approaches to building inclusive school culture, supporting diverse needs through relationships rather than separation, and why Gemma advocates loudly that the teaching principal role for new schools is "unsustainable, unmanageable, and unfair".

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

•  Relationships and how staff knowing kids, families and each other enables inclusion
•  Opening a school during COVID without keys night before
• How September 30 numbers penalise growth unfairly
• SNAs are golden ticket to inclusion
•  SIMS project is excellent but needs funding and training

GUEST DETAILS

Gemma Maher is the founding principal of Rathcoole Educate Together National School in West Dublin, which opened in September 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

After starting at Catherine McAuley dyslexia school, she spent 14 years at St. Catherine's working in specialist classes and becoming AP2 and Acting Deputy under principals April Cronan and Karen Jordan, where she participated in the SIMS (School Inclusion Model) project that influences her current practice. 

MORE INFORMATION

IPPN is the officially-recognised, professional network for leaders of Irish primary schools. It is an independent, not-for-profit, voluntary association, with a local, regional and national presence.

It provides practical resources, professional learning, and peer support to strengthen leadership capacity and sustainability. IPPN also advocates on behalf of school leaders, ensuring their perspectives influence education policy and practice. 

Learn more about IPPN and our work at ippn.ie

Our podcast is produced by dustpod.io

QUOTES

•  It's a different role you're stepping into. Give yourself time to get the skills that you need to do the job. - Gemma Maher
•  I don't think any school should be opened with a teaching principal. It is unsustainable, unmanageable and unfair. - Gemma Maher
•  Every child gets greeted by the staff in the morning by name because we know everybody's name.  - Gemma Maher
•  I think at the crux of everything we do is relationships. The heart of our school is that my staff know my kids, my staff know my families, my staff know each other.   - Gemma Maher
•  SNAs are fundamental to inclusion. Having access to SNAs and applying for SNAs and training of SNAs, they are the golden ticket to inclusion.  - Gemma Maher

KEYWORDS

#inclusiveEducation #teachingPrincipal #developingSchools #educateTogether #SNAprofessionalisation

Sinead shares her journey into psychotherapy, her insights on the surge in anxiety among students and staff, and why school leaders are at high risk of burnout. She introduces Be Well, Lead Well — a new 10-module digital series designed to help leaders prevent burnout through practical, evidence-based strategies. 

From setting boundaries without guilt to building supportive environments, this conversation offers both honest reflections and actionable tools for sustaining wellbeing in education.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

• Why Sinead’s own life experiences drew her into psychotherapy and mental health work.
• The role schools play in supporting both student wellbeing and staff mental health.
• Why anxiety is rising among children — and how teachers can better understand and respond to it.
• Burnout in school leadership: the difference between stress and burnout, and why prevention matters.
• Setting boundaries without guilt — learning to say “no” to protect your ability to lead.
• Practical tools and strategies from the Be Well, Lead Well digital series for sustaining long-term wellbeing.

GUEST DETAILS

Sinead is a deeply compassionate and fully accredited psychotherapist, coach, and mental health consultant with a special focus on anxiety. With a BA in Integrative Counselling and Psychotherapy and certifications in CBT, mindfulness, EMDR, the Rewind Technique, suicide intervention (ASIST), substance use intervention (SAOR), Children First safeguarding, and more, she brings a rich, multi-disciplinary approach to every session. 

Her professional journey includes volunteering with Teenline Ireland and Bodywhys, providing support to teens and those affected by eating disorders, and serving as a Teaching Assistant at the Institute for Integrative Counselling & Psychotherapy. 

MORE INFORMATION

IPPN is the officially-recognised, professional network for the leaders of Irish primary schools. It is an independent, not-for-profit, voluntary association, with a local, regional and national presence.

Established in 2000 to address the professional needs of school leaders, IPPN’s focus has been to support school leaders locally and to shape educational policy, practice and priorities nationally. IPPN articulates the collective experience and professional insights of over 6,000 Principals and Deputy Principals.

It provides practical resources, professional learning, and peer support to strengthen leadership capacity and sustainability.
IPPN also advocates on behalf of school leaders, ensuring their perspectives influence education policy and practice.

Its structure includes local Principals’ Support Groups, county networks, and a National Council, all overseen by a Board of Directors.
Through national and international partnerships, IPPN works to create an environment where leadership thrives — benefiting pupils, schools, and communities.

Learn more about IPPN, and the work they do in education at ippn.ie.

QUOTES

• By saying yes all of the time to everything, we’re saying no to ourselves. And not that we can’t be there for others when we’re not looking after ourselves, but we can’t be there in the way that we should be – Sinead Kennedy 
• You’re not going to be of much use to somebody if you are completely burnt out and have to leave the profession.  – Sinead Kennedy
• Burnout and stress often get spoken about together, but they’re different — and understanding that difference is the first step to prevention. – Sinead Kennedy
• There are things within your control — even when it feels like everything is on top of you. – Sinead Kennedy
• Fifty percent of school leaders are at high or severe levels of burnout. That’s something we need to think about — and respond to. – Sinead Kennedy

KEYWORDS

#BurnoutPrevention #SchoolLeadership #WellbeingInSchools #TeacherWellbeing #AnxietySupport #MentalHealthAwareness #EducationLeadership #SelfCareForLeaders #BeWellLeadWell 

In our first ever show, Brian O’Doherty sits down with Deirdre Kelly, newly elected president of IPPN and principal of St. Michael’s National School in rural Sligo.

Deirdre shares her personal journey from a childhood steeped in education to a career spanning special schools, disadvantaged settings, and nearly two decades as a teaching principal.

She reflects on the steep learning curve of leadership, the importance of mentorship, and the constant challenge of balancing classroom teaching with the demands of school leadership.

Deirdre also discusses her path into IPPN governance, her priorities for her presidency, and why authenticity and keeping children at the heart of every decision will guide her tenure. This is an honest, engaging conversation about leadership, advocacy, and creating safe, thriving school communities.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

• How a family tradition in teaching shaped Deirdre’s career in education.
• The unique rewards and challenges of being a teaching principal in a small rural school.
• The value of mentorship and collegiality for new school leaders.
• Managing the “perfect principal” myth — and learning to say “this is enough.”
• Articulating teaching principals’ views at national level through IPPN.
• Why authenticity and a child-centred focus will define Deirdre’s presidency.

GUEST DETAILS

Deirdre Kelly is the principal of St. Michael’s National School, a five-teacher rural school in County Sligo, and the newly elected president of the Irish Primary Principals’ Network (IPPN). 

With a teaching career that spans special schools, disadvantaged settings, and large urban schools, she brings a wealth of experience to her leadership role. A graduate of Froebel College and Trinity College Dublin, Deirdre has served on IPPN’s National Council and Board of Directors, advocating strongly for teaching principals. 

Known for her authenticity, passion for member engagement, and commitment to keeping children at the heart of decision-making, she is dedicated to creating safe, supportive, and thriving school communities.

MORE INFORMATION

IPPN is the officially-recognised, professional network for the leaders of Irish primary schools. It is an independent, not-for-profit, voluntary association, with a local, regional and national presence.

Established in 2000 to address the professional needs of school leaders, IPPN’s focus has been to support school leaders locally and to shape educational policy, practice and priorities nationally. IPPN articulates the collective experience and professional insights of over 6,000 Principals and Deputy Principals.

It provides practical resources, professional learning, and peer support to strengthen leadership capacity and sustainability.
IPPN also advocates on behalf of school leaders, ensuring their perspectives influence education policy and practice.

Its structure includes local Principals’ Support Groups, county networks, and a National Council, all overseen by a Board of Directors.
Through national and international partnerships, IPPN works to create an environment where leadership thrives — benefiting pupils, schools, and communities.

Learn more about IPPN, and the work they do in education at ippn.ie.

QUOTES

• This is enough and I am enough. Some days that’s the most important thing you can tell yourself – Deirdre Kelly 
• It is such a privilege to be a teaching principal because I absolutely have the best of both worlds – Deirdre Kelly
• Being a teaching principal is like juggling all the time — and then someone throws in three extra balls. – Deirdre Kelly
• The reason IPPN exists is for the children — so they can have the best possible outcomes in our schools. – Deirdre Kelly
• If I’m not at the table highlighting the concerns of teaching principals, then who is going to – Deirdre Kelly

KEYWORDS

#SchoolLeadership #TeachingPrincipal #EducationLeadership #IPPN #ChildCentredEducation #MentorshipMatters #WorkLifeBalance #LeadershipJourney #AuthenticLeadership #DeirdreKelly #IPPNPodcast

We bring you conversations with school leaders who've faced the same impossible juggling acts we all know too well, plus policy makers, mental health experts, and stakeholder voices who understand the pressures you face. 

You’ll discover evidence-based solutions, hear how other schools have tackled similar challenges, and gain fresh perspectives that help you see your own practice with new clarity.

Leading for Impact – Real conversations for real school leaders from IPPN, the network for Irish Principals and Deputy Principals.

Coming to Apple, Spotify and YouTube this September. Follow now so you don't miss the first episode.