Leadership, Untangled

The Magic of Leadership | Mark Thurston

Blaire Palmer — Mon, 12 Oct 2026 14:00:00 +0100

In this episode of Leadership Untangled, host Blair Palmer speaks with Mark Thurston, Chief Executive of Anglian Water, about the unique challenges of leadership in high-stakes environments. Thurston shares insights on the responsibilities that come with being a CEO, the importance of self-awareness, and the nuances of public scrutiny in infrastructure roles. He emphasizes the need for authenticity, the impact of leadership style on organizational culture, and the value of mentorship and taking risks in career development. In this conversation, the speaker discusses the essential qualities and strategies required for effective leadership during organizational change. They emphasize the importance of incremental change, emotional intelligence, and self-development in fostering a positive team dynamic. The speaker also reflects on their personal journey and the sense of duty they feel to share their insights with others in leadership roles.

takeaways

Becoming a CEO comes with a unique set of responsibilities.
Self-awareness is crucial for effective leadership.
Public perception can significantly impact leadership decisions.
Using authority wisely can inspire and motivate teams.
Mentorship plays a vital role in career progression.
Taking risks is essential for personal and professional growth.
Leadership is more about personality than technical skills.
Navigating public scrutiny requires resilience and adaptability.
Authenticity in leadership fosters trust and respect.
Sacrifices may be necessary to achieve career goals. Incremental change is often more effective than radical transformation.
Establishing clear values and purpose is crucial for leadership.
Creating a culture of trust and vulnerability enhances team dynamics.
Regular check-ins with team members help gauge emotional well-being.
Transparency in communication fosters employee engagement.
Self-care is essential for sustaining leadership effectiveness.
Leaders should model the behaviors they wish to see in their teams.
Understanding the organization's history aids in navigating change.
A sense of duty to mentor others can inspire future leaders.
Human qualities are vital in technical industries.

Connect with Mark Thurston: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markthurston/

I hope you enjoy this episode! Give it a like, share, and subscribe to not miss the content coming your way weekly.
- Blaire and the Leadership, Untangled podcast team

Connect with Blaire Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairepalmer
Visit the That People Thing website here: https://www.thatpeoplething.com

Listen to Leadership, Untangled on these podcast platforms:
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#LeadershipUntangled #blairepalmer #thatpeoplething #leadership #futureofleadership #leadershipdevelopment #organisationalchange #AIandleadership #executivecoaching #changemanagement #CEOmindset #workplacetransformation #punksinsuits #seniorleaders #peoplestrategy
Leadership, Untangled is a podcast for senior leaders navigating real, complex change inside large organisations. Hosted by Blaire Palmer, CEO of That People Thing and author of Punks in Suits, each episode is a genuine conversation with leaders and practitioners who are living through the challenges that define this era of work: AI disruption, shifting workforce expectations, culture transformation, and what it actually takes to lead differently when the old playbook no longer holds.
Blaire brings 25+ years working alongside boards, C-suites, and global organisations including Airbus, Roche, GSK, AXA, Heineken, and Santander, combined with the questioning instincts of a former BBC Radio 4 producer. If you lead inside a complex organisation and you're tired of leadership content that recycles the same ideas, this is the show for you.
Leadership Untangled, Blaire Palmer, That People Thing, leadership podcast, future of leadership, organisational change, senior leaders, CEO mindset, leadership development, AI and leadership, change management, executive coaching, workplace transformation, culture change, Punks in Suits, human leadership, leading change, private equity, technology leadership, AI due diligence, software strategy, leadership habits, people strategy, complex organisations, executive leadership, B2B leadership

The Shift from Hard Work to Smart Work in Leadership | Cecilia Flatum

Blaire Palmer — Mon, 05 Oct 2026 14:00:00 +0100

In this episode of Leadership Untangled, Blaire Palmer speaks with Cecilia Flatum, CEO of Deloitte Norway, about the complexities of leadership in times of disruption. Cecilia shares her journey of transitioning from a hard-working approach to a smarter, more strategic leadership style. They discuss the importance of integrating personal health practices into leadership, the necessity of creating a culture of feedback, and the challenges of addressing difficult conversations within organizations. Cecilia emphasizes the value of vulnerability and honesty in leadership, as well as the need to balance seriousness with playfulness to foster a positive workplace culture.

takeaways

Cecilia Flatum emphasizes the importance of working smart rather than just hard.
Leadership requires a balance between pushing for results and allowing space for team growth.
Creating a culture of feedback is essential for trust and improvement.
Integrating personal health practices can enhance leadership effectiveness.
Addressing difficult conversations can lead to significant organizational improvements.
Vulnerability in leadership can foster honesty and openness among team members.
Time management and respect for others' time are crucial in leadership roles.
A holistic view of employees' well-being is necessary for sustainable leadership.
Leaders should not fear testing new ideas and approaches.
Finding a balance between seriousness and playfulness can enhance workplace culture.

Connect with Cecilia: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ceciliaflatum/

I hope you enjoy this episode! Give it a like, share, and subscribe to not miss the content coming your way weekly.
- Blaire and the Leadership, Untangled podcast team

Connect with Blaire Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairepalmer
Visit the That People Thing website here: https://www.thatpeoplething.com

Preserving Legacy in Family Business | Alex Yakovyshenko

Blaire Palmer — Mon, 07 Sep 2026 14:00:00 +0100

In this episode of Leadership Untangled, Blaire Palmer speaks with Alex Yakovyshenko, who leads a multi-generational family-owned business with a rich legacy. They discuss the complexities of leadership, the importance of preserving values while embracing change, and the unique challenges faced in family-run enterprises. Alex shares insights on navigating loneliness in leadership, fostering innovation, and the shift from being the sole problem-solver to empowering others. The conversation culminates in reflections on the legacy one leaves behind and the impact of leadership on individuals and the industry.

takeaways

Leadership is demanding and often lonely.
Preserving legacy requires balancing tradition with modern needs.
Values like legacy, authenticity, and partnership are crucial.
Generational transitions in family businesses bring unique challenges.
Idea that organizations should outlive individuals
Innovation requires creating an environment for experimentation.
Mistakes are part of the learning process in leadership.
Coaching others is a key focus for effective leadership.
The definition of success evolves over time.
Access to information today allows for continuous learning.

Connect with Alex Yakovyshenko: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexyakov/

I hope you enjoy this episode! Give it a like, share, and subscribe to not miss the content coming your way weekly.
- Blaire and the Leadership, Untangled podcast team

Connect with Blaire Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairepalmer
Visit the That People Thing website here: https://www.thatpeoplething.com

Unlocking Leadership Potential Through Questions | Philip Ponsonby

Blaire Palmer — Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:00:00 +0100

In this conversation, Philip Ponsonby discusses the importance of asking the right questions in leadership, embracing vulnerability, and building trust within organizations, especially during complex mergers. He emphasizes the need for engagement and open communication, particularly through listening groups, to foster a sense of belonging among employees. The unique dynamics of a member-elected board in a co-operative setting are explored, highlighting the challenges and advantages of such governance. Philip reflects on lessons learned from past experiences and the necessity of being agile in response to a rapidly changing external environment.

Takeaways

As leaders, asking the right questions leads to better answers.
Vulnerability in leadership can foster creativity and involvement.
Building trust is essential in managing complexity during mergers.
Engaging employees through listening groups can alleviate anxiety.
Creating a sense of belonging is crucial for employee retention.
The dynamics of a member-elected board promote honesty and accountability.
Understanding employee perspectives on coop values is vital.
Moving quickly to assure employees can prevent turnover.
Flexibility and agility are necessary in today's dynamic environment.
The external environment is changing rapidly, requiring adaptive strategies.

Connect with Philip - https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-ponsonby-2567022b/

I hope you enjoy this episode! Give it a like, share, and subscribe to not miss the content coming your way weekly.
- Blaire and the Leadership, Untangled podcast team

Connect with Blaire Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairepalmer
Visit the That People Thing website here: https://www.thatpeoplething.com

Navigating Leadership in a Changing World | Jessie McGowan

Blaire Palmer — Mon, 13 Jul 2026 14:00:00 +0100

In this episode of Leadership Untangled, Blaire Palmer speaks with Jessie McGowan, Managing Director for North America at PeopleScout. They discuss the evolving landscape of leadership and talent acquisition, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, trust, and open communication in navigating change. Jessie shares her personal journey from being a practitioner to a leader, the challenges of balancing control and empowerment, and the significance of employer branding in attracting talent. The conversation highlights the need for genuine partnerships in talent acquisition and the role of leaders in fostering a culture of open dialogue and continuous learning.

Takeaways

Leadership requires navigating uncertainty and transformation.
Embracing boldness can lead to new opportunities.
Trusting your team fosters their growth and development.
AI is reshaping the talent acquisition landscape.
Balancing technology and human engagement is crucial.
Employer branding significantly impacts talent attraction.
Building genuine partnerships enhances recruitment success.
Leaders must empower teams to take initiative.
Creating a culture of open communication is essential.
Finding meaning in work drives career satisfaction.

Connect with Jessie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessieostergardmcgowan/

I hope you enjoy this episode! Give it a like, share, and subscribe to not miss the content coming your way weekly.
- Blaire and the Leadership, Untangled podcast team

Connect with Blaire Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairepalmer
Visit the That People Thing website here: https://www.thatpeoplething.com

When AI Meets Insurance: Leading Transformation at Aviva | Michael Yabantu

Blaire Palmer — Mon, 29 Jun 2026 18:38:32 +0100

In this episode of Leadership Untangled, Blaire Palmer speaks with Michael Yabantu, Managing Director of Mid Market at Aviva, about one of the most significant and human-centred transformation stories in commercial insurance. Michael leads a business responsible for over a billion pounds of premium, and since 2019 has been at the forefront of embedding AI and automation into the underwriting process — not to replace people, but to give them back the time and capacity to do what they do best. What emerges from this conversation is far more than a technology story; it is an honest account of change leadership, the cost of moving too fast, and what it really takes to bring people with you.
Michael shares the real lessons behind Aviva's journey — from early communication failures and underestimating the "what's in it for me" question, to the power of peer-to-peer advocacy, model office testing, and connecting the back office directly with frontline teams. He is candid about the moments of doubt, the resilience required when adoption lags behind vision, and why some of their most successful recent changes were built directly on the things that did not go well the first time. For anyone navigating AI adoption, organisational change, or the challenge of leading through complexity, this episode is essential listening.

Key Takeaways:

You cannot overcommunicate during transformation — before, during, and after deployment
Peer-to-peer advocacy unlocked adoption where top-down communication had stalled
A model office approach (test in one location, iterate, then roll out) delivered faster and more durable results than a big-bang deployment
Communicating the "what's in it for me" message must be tailored to different roles and customer segments, not treated as one-size-fits-all
Transparency about being two-thirds of the way there builds more trust than overpromising at launch
Broker engagement requires translating internal technology investments into tangible outcomes they will actually experience
Diversity of thought within leadership teams is a practical resilience tool, not just a values statement
Staying personally educated on AI and emerging technology is now a core leadership responsibility

Connect with Michael Yabantu on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/michael-yabantu-07737b30

I hope you enjoy this episode! Give it a like, share, and subscribe to not miss the content coming your way weekly.
- Blaire and the Leadership, Untangled podcast team

Connect with Blaire Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairepalmer
Visit the That People Thing website here: https://www.thatpeoplething.com

When AI Makes a Five-Year Business Plan Impossible | Keith Mackay

Blaire Palmer — Mon, 15 Jun 2026 10:00:00 +0100

Keith MacKay has spent 35 years inside the software economy as a CTO, founder, board advisor, and teacher, and now advises private equity and corporate clients as Managing Director of the Software Strategy Group at EY-Parthenon. In this conversation with Blaire, he breaks down what's actually happening when investors try to put a value on a software business in a world where AI capabilities are improving by roughly 40x a year, and a five-year hold period now spans a timeframe that's almost impossible to model with any confidence.
The conversation moves well beyond investment strategy into something every leader needs to think about. Keith makes the case that the people having the most success working with AI aren't necessarily the most technically gifted, they're the ones who can communicate clearly, break problems into pieces, and hold context across a conversation. He also gets into why AI adoption is tracking almost exactly the same curve as cloud computing, why treating AI as a cost-cutting tool rather than an augmentation tool tends to backfire, and what the coming squeeze on token economics might actually mean for how organisations make better decisions about where AI is really adding value.

AI capabilities are improving at roughly 40x year on year, making five and seven-year investment horizons almost impossible to plan around with confidence
Older developers are outperforming younger ones with AI tools, because the skill that matters most is being able to clearly describe and break down a problem, which is a management skill, not a coding skill
The waterbed problem: accelerating code writing with AI just pushes the bottleneck into testing, deployment, and change management
"It's never technology, always psychology" — accountability can't live inside an AI, and organisations that forget that create expensive problems downstream
Context is everything: AI has no memory between sessions, and in long sessions the quality of responses degrades as earlier information falls out of the context window
AI adoption is following the same curve as cloud, including the early phase of spectacular, unanticipated costs before cost controls catch up
The organisations getting it right are using AI to augment human judgment, not replace it — particularly in roles that require handling a wide range of problems or situations that demand accountability

Connect with Keith MacKay:
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/keithmackay
Substack: https://tlcmentor.substack.com
Medium: https://medium.com/@keithwrites
If this conversation sparked something for you, subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. And if you know a senior leader navigating AI, change, or what it means to lead differently right now, share this with them.

I hope you enjoy this episode! Give it a like, share, and subscribe to not miss the content coming your way weekly.
- Blaire and the Leadership, Untangled podcast team

Connect with Blaire Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairepalmer
Visit the That People Thing website here: https://www.thatpeoplething.com