Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is joined by Dr. Lois James, Professor and PhD Program Director in the Washington State University College of Nursing and Director of WSU's Sleep and Performance Research Center. Together they unpack what sleep loss does to the brain and body, why "I'm tired, but I'm fine" doesn't hold up, and what both individuals and agencies can change starting today.

WHAT WE COVER

• Why routinely getting five or six hours of sleep isn't a "new normal" — most adults need seven to nine hours to avoid building sleep debt.

• How fatigue takes the prefrontal cortex offline first, eroding the self-awareness, calm, and judgment a tense encounter demands.

• Why drowsy driving after a shift feels safe until it isn't — micro-sleeps happen even when you believe you're awake.

• What leaders should know about shift length, shift rotation, and forward-rotating schedules, and why staffing should match actual demand.

• Simple sleep-hygiene moves: limit handheld screens, use steady background noise, and keep your bedroom cool, dark, and quiet.

• The case for on-duty napping — and how a 20-minute power nap (or a "nappuccino") tops up alertness without sleep inertia.

• The one thing to start today: a self-soothing wind-down routine that lowers hypervigilance so your body can actually rest.

• Why the culture of "push through it" is fading — and why the question isn't whether we can keep going, but whether we should.

ABOUT DR. LOIS JAMES

Dr. Lois James is a Professor and the PhD Program Director in the Washington State University College of Nursing, and Director of WSU's Sleep and Performance Research Center. Her research examines how sleep loss, fatigue, stress, and bias affect performance and safety among shift workers, including police officers, firefighters, health care personnel, and military personnel. She specializes in developing and evaluating fatigue risk management, sleep education, and anti-bias training programs, and is the founding Director of Counter Bias Training Simulation (CBTsim). Internationally recognized in her field, she also consults directly with agencies on building schedules that work for their officers and their communities.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST

Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.

Control the breath. Control the moment.

Welcome back to Just Breathe for the final installment of our three-part series, The Lives We Don't Talk About. The first two episodes covered understanding suicide and loss; this one shifts forward to what healing, treatment, and recovery look like for first responders and their families, and how agencies can build a culture where asking for help meets support instead of stigma.

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is joined by Dr. Dorothy Novitskie, a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist and founder of Novitskie Forensic Psychology, with more than two decades of experience in clinical, forensic, correctional, and law enforcement settings. Together they unpack what recovery means after trauma, why asking for help remains hard in public safety culture, and what effective treatment, family involvement, and forward-looking leadership look like in practice.

WHAT WE COVER

- Dr. Novitskie reframes recovery not as "going back to who you were" but as regaining the ability to carry what you've experienced without being controlled by it — sleeping again, being present with family, and having access to joy.
- Why the fear of asking for help isn't irrational for officers: mixed messages from agencies, and legitimate concerns about how disclosure could affect assignments, promotions, or firearm status.
- How leadership sets the "emotional temperature" of an agency — officers watch what leaders tolerate and reward far more than what they say.
- What a comprehensive treatment assessment looks like, including screening out medical causes (like a thyroid issue) before assuming a psychological diagnosis.
- Why safety planning around suicidal ideation focuses on reducing access to lethal means without automatically stripping an officer's firearm privileges or identity.
- The specific role family, friends, and trusted peers play in recovery — noticing changes and staying connected, without being expected to act as the person's therapist.
- Why recovery isn't linear, and how anniversary reactions, court proceedings, or a difficult call can resurface symptoms without meaning treatment has failed.
- Dr. Novitskie's vision for where public safety agencies need to go in the next five years: proactive wellness built into daily culture, not just a reaction after tragedy.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

If you or someone you know is in immediate danger or considering suicide, call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

- CopLine — 1-800-267-5463 (1-800-COPLINE) — a confidential, 24/7 peer support hotline staffed by retired law enforcement, for active and retired officers and their families.
- Safe Call Now — (206) 459-3020 — a confidential, peer-based resource for public safety professionals and their families, offering referrals to treatment.
- Your agency's peer support team or Employee Assistance Program can also connect you directly to these resources.

ABOUT DR. DOROTHY NOVITSKIE

Dr. Dorothy Novitskie is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist and founder of Novitskie Forensic Psychology, LLC. With more than two decades across clinical, forensic, correctional, outpatient, and academic settings, she specializes in trauma-informed care, forensic mental health assessment, and treatment for law enforcement and public safety professionals. She holds an M.A. in Forensic Psychology from John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology from Fairleigh Dickinson University.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST

Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.

Control the breath. Control the moment.

If you are a first responder or public safety professional struggling right now: call or text 988, or call CopLine at 1-800-267-5463 — both are confidential and staffed by people who understand this work.

Welcome back to Just Breathe for part two of our three-part series, The Lives We Don't Talk About. Part one honored the lives lost to first responder suicide and challenged the culture around it; this episode goes inside the research, exploring the psychological autopsy — the method used to understand why an officer died by suicide, and how that understanding drives prevention.

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is joined by Dr. Jeff Thompson, a retired NYPD detective who served more than two decades, including as the department's first-ever mental health and wellness coordinator and as a hostage negotiator. He's now an Adjunct Associate Research Scientist in Psychiatry at Columbia University Irving Medical Center, where his work on police psychological autopsies has become a leading resource for suicide prevention in public safety.

WHAT WE COVER

- What a psychological autopsy actually is: a scientific, interview-based method for understanding why an officer died by suicide — grounded in honoring the person and generating prevention data, never in assigning blame.
- The five critical questions behind every psychological autopsy: why that person, why by that method, why that day, why didn't protective factors intervene, and what could have helped.
- Why "why that day" is often the most revealing question — a recurring stressor, like an on-and-off relationship, can suddenly become the tipping point after years of surviving it.
- Why over 90% of police suicides involve a firearm, and what that says about the role of access to lethal means in prevention.
- How depression can show up as anger outbursts and lost impulse control rather than visible sadness — and why that gets misread as a disciplinary problem instead of a warning sign.
- Why direct and indirect suicidal statements ("I don't want to wake up," "there's no way out of this") both call for the same direct follow-up question, and how to actually ask it.
- Why loved ones interviewed for a psychological autopsy often describe the process itself as part of their healing, even though it can't undo what happened.
- Why social connectedness outside of work — with people who have nothing to do with the job — is one of the strongest protective factors against the isolation that precedes suicide.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

If you or someone you know is in immediate danger or considering suicide, call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

- CopLine — 1-800-267-5463 (1-800-COPLINE) — a confidential, 24/7 peer support hotline staffed by retired law enforcement, for active and retired officers and their families.
- Safe Call Now — (206) 459-3020 — a confidential, peer-based referral service for public safety professionals and their families.
- Your agency's peer support team or Employee Assistance Program can also connect you directly to these resources.

ABOUT DR. JEFF THOMPSON

Dr. Jeff Thompson is a retired NYPD detective who spent more than two decades with the department, including serving as its first-ever mental health and wellness coordinator and as a hostage negotiator. He is now an Adjunct Associate Research Scientist in Psychiatry at Columbia University Irving Medical Center, focused on evidence-based strategies for resilience, crisis response, and suicide prevention in law enforcement. He is a leading voice on using psychological autopsies to understand and prevent first responder suicide, with research published in outlets including Police Chief magazine.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST

Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.

Control the breath. Control the moment.

If you are a first responder or public safety professional struggling right now: call or text 988, or call CopLine at 1-800-267-5463 — both are confidential and staffed by people who understand this work.

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is joined by Dr. Jeff Thompson, a research scientist and 20-year veteran of the NYPD, whose work has become instrumental in changing how law enforcement understands suicide prevention. Together they dig into why this subject stays buried in silence, why the data alone can never tell the full story, and why the goal isn't just keeping people alive — it's helping them thrive.

A note before you listen: this episode includes discussion of suicide, trauma, depression, and cumulative stress. If you've lost a colleague, friend, or loved one, or if these topics are personally difficult, please listen at your own pace. If you recognize yourself in this conversation, know that asking for help is a sign of courage, not weakness — and you are not alone.

WHAT WE COVER

Why suicide remains one of the hardest topics to raise in public safety — and how stigma, not lack of concern, keeps the profession from talking about it openly

Why reducing suicide to a single cause or a "checklist" of warning signs misunderstands how complex and individual each case really is

Why statistics alone can't carry the full story — and why qualitative research and narrative are essential to honoring the humanity behind every data point

How career stage, organizational stress, and personal circumstance intersect differently for every person, and why the same risk factors can mean something entirely different at year two versus year twenty

The NASA astronaut model Dr. Thompson borrows for his work — why the goal for first responders, like astronauts, isn't just "getting by," it's thriving before, during, and after a career

Why identity — not rank, title, or years of service — is what so many first responders lose when they retire, and why that loss can feel like staring into an abyss

Why unresolved organizational stress, toxic workplace culture, and unaddressed bullying consistently rank as the number one stressor in policing, above the trauma of the job itself

Dr. Thompson's case against relying on peer support programs and therapy dogs alone — and why real resilience means asking what you're personally doing to shape the culture around you

Practical guidance for supervisors and leaders: get trained in peer support, learn how to ask directly about suicide, and know when your role isn't to fix the problem but simply to sit with someone

Why first responders become so skilled at hiding emotional pain — and the cognitive dissonance of excelling at the job while struggling personally

Why the skills built to check on coworkers need to come home too — checking in on spouses, kids, and neighbors, not just partners on shift

RESOURCES MENTIONED

If you or someone you know is in immediate danger or considering suicide, call or text 988 or reach out to the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

CopLine — 1-800-267-5463 — a confidential peer support hotline staffed by retired law enforcement officers

Safe Call Now — 1-206-459-3020 — a confidential referral service for first responders and their families

Your agency's peer support team, Employee Assistance Program, chaplain, or mental health professional

ABOUT DR. JEFF THOMPSON

Dr. Jeff Thompson is a research scientist who develops and delivers evidence-based, practical intervention strategies to enhance resilience and support individuals' ability to manage crisis. He spent 20 years and 9 months with the New York City Police Department before turning his research toward suicide prevention, work that now spans first responders, the military, health care professionals, and others in high-stress professions. His approach draws on both qualitative and quantitative research, and includes work studying how NASA prepares, supports, and debriefs astronauts before, during, and after missions — insight he applies to how public safety agencies should care for people across an entire career, from recruit to retirement.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST

Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.

Control the breath. Control the moment.

WHAT WE COVER

Why men's health is one of the hardest topics to raise in public safety — and how "suck it up" culture still lingers from a generation taught to work through injury and illness

Why Castle Rock PD made mental health check-ins mandatory for everyone, including the chief, to remove the stigma of asking for help

Chief Cawley's own aha moment: realizing his calendar would consume every open minute unless he intentionally protected time for himself

The identity trap of policing — why so many first responders struggle to separate who they are from the rank they held, especially in retirement

How Castle Rock's eFit program invests in on-site fitness, personal trainers, and paid workout time — and why the return on that investment goes far beyond physical health

Why so many men find it easier to help others than to ask for help themselves

The practical case for building wellness habits early in a career, before symptoms force the issue

What real leadership modeling looks like — and why officers can tell the difference between a chief who talks about wellness and one who protects the time to practice it

The one cultural shift Chief Cawley believes would do the most good: building an organization where people feel psychologically and physically safe enough to have honest conversations without fear of consequences

ABOUT CHIEF JACK CAWLEY

Chief Jack Cawley began his career as a police dispatcher before spending 25 years with the Overland Park Police Department in Kansas. Since January 2012, he has served as Chief of Police for the Castle Rock Police Department in Colorado, where he has championed mandatory wellness check-ins, on-site fitness investment, and a leadership culture built around modeling — not just mandating — officer wellness.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST

Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week. Control the breath. Control the moment.

WHAT WE COVER

The signs someone appears resilient on the outside while struggling internally — and why outward composure is not a reliable signal

Why "resilience" has become a loaded word for younger first responders, and how organizations sometimes misuse it to shift accountability for systemic problems onto individuals

Susanna's definition of resilience: not the ability to do hard things, but the ability to move through them and come out healthier on the other side

Why "bouncing back" isn't real — and what actually changes in a person after crisis or cumulative trauma

The first thing high-performing first responders discover about themselves once they start a mindfulness practice

Why "I don't have time for mindfulness" doesn't hold up — and what the research says about tiny, minute-long practices

The difference between meditation and mindfulness, and why you don't need a cushion to practice either

The one takeaway Susanna wants every listener to walk away with: mindfulness is the foundation for every decision we make

ABOUT SUSANNA HARSNAY

Susanna Harsnay is a retired FBI agent who served for over 20 years before transitioning into mindfulness coaching. A former dance major and ballet dancer, she discovered the power of mindfulness while working through her own unaddressed stress and trauma, and has since dedicated her work to bringing mindfulness practices, leadership development, and coaching to law enforcement, public safety, and other trauma-facing professions.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST

Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week. Control the breath. Control the moment.

WHAT WE COVER

What we know with confidence about first responder physical, mental, and social wellness — and the gaps still missing from the research, including a global south perspective and the officer's own lived experience

The real reason most officers skip wellness programs — and it isn't the one you'd expect

How leadership can move beyond performative wellness programs to ones that actually get used

Why "how are you doing?" has to be asked more than once before you get a real answer

What agencies should be doing differently to support officers from recruitment through retirement — and why check-ins can't stop after the first five years

Innovative models worth stealing, including Arizona DPS's paid sabbatical program

What skeptics still get wrong about breathwork and mindfulness — and the neuroscience that explains why the practice works

Why box breathing doesn't work for everyone, and how to find the self-regulation tool that actually fits

The one truth about wellness programs that every chief needs to hear: you can't build something for officers without officers

ABOUT DR. JESSENIA G. OGUNANDE PhD, LMSW

Dr. Jessenia Ogunande is an international psychologist, licensed social worker, executive coach, and educator, and a retired NYPD officer with 20 years of law enforcement experience. She is the founder of Larimar Counseling Services LMSW PLLC, a trauma-informed practice supporting first responders, particularly women, and serves as faculty and clinical supervisor at the Institute for Contemporary Psychotherapy in New York City. Her work focuses on trauma, recovery, leadership development, and culturally responsive wellness practices.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST

Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week. Control the breath. Control the moment.

WHAT WE COVER
Why no other job spills into home life as fast or as powerfully as first responder work
The most devastating challenge first responder families face — and why it starts before the first shift ends
Why stonewalling happens and what it costs the people on the other side of it
How to communicate when you can't talk about what you saw — and why silence is never the answer
The rules couples should establish before the big one hits — not during it
How to help young children understand when mom or dad comes home with that face
What it means when a child thinks everything bad is their fault
When it's time to seek counseling — and why you need someone who actually understands first responder culture
The spouse who over-functions and loses themselves in the process
Why some first responders bring work communication home — and what it does to the family
What connection really means — and why anything that breaks it causes lasting damage
The one truth most first responders hate hearing — and why it might save their marriage

ABOUT DR. ELLEN KIRSCHMAN
Dr. Ellen Kirschman is a retired psychologist who spent four decades counseling first responders and their families. She is the author of the landmark books I Love a Cop and I Love a Firefighter, as well as co-author of Counseling Cops: What Clinicians Need to Know. She also writes a five-book crime fiction series featuring police psychologist Dot Meyerhoff. Her career has been dedicated to supporting the wellness of those who serve — and the families who stand beside them.

RESOURCES MENTIONED
I Love a Cop by Dr. Ellen Kirschman
I Love a Firefighter by Dr. Ellen Kirschman
Counseling Cops: What Clinicians Need to Know by Dr. Ellen Kirschman

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST
Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.
Control the breath. Control the moment.

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with Ted Stern, founder of Fit Responder, and Sergeant Aaron Lohman of the NYPD for an honest conversation about fitness, mental health, toughness, and what it actually takes to make it to retirement in one piece.

WHAT WE COVER

●      How Aaron went from 425 pounds and depressed to becoming a voice for first responder health

●      Ted's journey from gaining 60 pounds his first two years on the job to building one of the top fitness coaching programs for first responders in the country

●      The biology of stress — and why getting fit and healthy changes how your body handles pressure

●      Why the stigma around mental health isn't about what the department will think — it's about what your peer next to you will say

●      The misconceptions about toughness, and why admitting you need help is actually the tougher path

●      What depression actually looks like in first responder culture — and why it rarely looks like sadness

●      Why crash diets and all-or-nothing thinking fail first responders — and what sustainable habits look like instead

●      The "Oprah effect" and why most quick fixes don't survive shift work

●      What leaders can do to make wellness part of the culture instead of a side bonus

●      Why living the example matters more than any wellness policy on paper

●      What gives both guests hope about the future of fitness and mental health in public safety

ABOUT TED STERN
 Ted Stern is a former law enforcement officer with over a decade of experience and a fitness coach for first responders with more than 15 years in the field. In 2017, Ted and his wife Emily founded Fit Responder, one of the top fitness coaching programs for first responders in the United States.

ABOUT SERGEANT AARON LOHMAN
 Sergeant Aaron Lohman has served with the NYPD for more than 19 years, with experience in gang enforcement, anti-crime, and narcotics. He now works in health and wellness, helping officers improve their physical and mental health through resilience training, fitness, and nutrition.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST
 Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.

Control the breath. Control the moment.

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with Dr. Kyle Dobson — Assistant Professor of Public Policy and Psychology at the Frank Batten School of Leadership and Public Policy at the University of Virginia — for a candid, research-grounded conversation about the human side of public safety, what organizations get wrong about trust, and why officer well-being isn't separate from community safety — it's the foundation of it.

WHAT WE COVER

• What drew a researcher into the world of public safety — and why lived experience in the field matters
• What the public doesn't see in officer interactions and why the nuance gets lost in the headlines
• How body-worn cameras changed the conversation around transparency — and where we still fall short
• What organizations actually need to do to build trust with their own employees — not just the community
• Why listening tours only work if leaders show they were actually listening
• The science behind why self-regulation matters for both officers and the communities they serve
• What happens when an officer goes from the worst call of the year straight into a routine traffic stop — and why that transition is everything
• Why we need to rethink how we deploy first responders and build in space to process before the next call
• What courage actually looks like today — and why running into danger is only half the picture
• The low-status courage no one talks about — speaking up when the culture pushes back
• How departments can normalize conversations about wellness without weakening accountability or readiness
• What gives a researcher who studies this every day genuine hope about the future of first responder culture

ABOUT DR. KYLE DOBSON Dr. Kyle Dobson is Assistant Professor of Public Policy and Psychology at the Frank Batten School of Leadership and Public Policy at the University of Virginia. His work focuses on public safety organizations and how people connect across differences in intense, high-pressure environments. Through collaborations with agencies across the country, Dr. Dobson works to improve both the effectiveness and the humanity of organizations responsible for protecting others.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.

Control the breath. Control the moment.

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with Dr. Niles R. Wilson — retired Deputy Police Director with 27 years at the Newark Police Department and Senior Pastor of Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church in East Orange, New Jersey — for an honest, grounded conversation about the intersection of spirituality, self-regulation, and leadership under pressure. 

WHAT WE COVER 

• Why self-regulation isn't just mental or physical — and what's missing from the conversation 
• How spirituality becomes a compass for morality, ethics, and decision-making under pressure 
• Why so many first responders are spiritual but feel shamed into silence about it 
• The three principles Dr. Wilson lives by — capacity, sincerity, and ability 
• How morning prayer, meditation, and breathwork translate directly into high-stakes leadership moments 
• Why the academy teaches officers how to shoot but not how to breathe — and what needs to change 
• What leaders can do to respect and support the spiritual lives of the people they lead 
• The honest truth about faith-driven leadership — and what it actually looks like in practice 

ABOUT DR. NILES R. WILSON Dr. Niles R. Wilson brings a rare combination of executive law enforcement experience and pastoral leadership. After a distinguished 27-year career with the Newark Police Department — serving as Deputy Police Director, Acting Deputy Chief, Chief of Staff, Precinct Commander, and Commander of the Professional Standards Bureau — Dr. Wilson has faithfully served as Senior Pastor of Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church in East Orange, New Jersey since 1996. He is a graduate of the FBI National Academy, a past president of the United Clergy of the Oranges, and an active member of multiple civic and law enforcement organizations. 

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week. 

Control the breath. Control the moment. 

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with two powerhouse voices — Dr. Keyshawn Hickman and Kevin MacDonald — for an honest, unfiltered conversation about identity, loss, rock bottom, and what it actually takes to find your way back to yourself after a career in law enforcement. 

WHAT WE COVER 

• Why the journey back to yourself isn't poetic — it's an archaeological dig through everything you buried 
• How compartmentalization saves you on the job and quietly destroys you at home 
• Why first responders put their identity into things with an expiration date — and what that costs them at retirement 
• The silence avoidance that keeps so many officers from ever sitting with themselves 
• What rock bottom actually looks like — and why it's where the strongest foundations are built 
• Why "fine," "good," and "okay" are lies — and what it means to really ask someone how they're doing 
• How to help your family understand what you've been carrying — and why showing them matters more than telling them 
• Grace — what it actually means and why it changes everything 
• The power of breath and why most people are breathing wrong 
• How a single breathing session changed everything for Dr. Hickman — twice 
• What it means to finally take off the body armor you didn't even know you were wearing 

ABOUT DR. KEYSHAWN HICKMAN Dr. Keyshawn Hickman spent 21 years with the NYPD, rising from patrol officer to lieutenant and commanding the Information Technology Bureau investigation team. He now serves as Program Director of the Law Enforcement Executive Leadership graduate program at Seton Hall University, where he shapes the next generation of public safety leaders. He is a U.S. Department of State Fulbright Specialist and nationally recognized educator and cybercrime analyst. 

ABOUT KEVIN MacDONALD Kevin MacDonald is a retired New Jersey police officer, bestselling author, and host of The Suffering Podcast. A nationally recognized voice in trauma, recovery, and mental health, Kevin rebuilt his life after surviving his own post-traumatic stress and multiple suicide attempts following an on-duty shooting incident in 2014. His mission is to destigmatize mental health in law enforcement and empower survivors to find their way through. 

RESOURCES MENTIONED 

• Man, You're Crazy by Kevin MacDonald 
• The Suffering Podcast 

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week. 

Control the breath. Control the moment. 

Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with Dr. Gregory Mack — retired NYPD Detective Specialist, licensed psychologist, and one of the rare professionals who has lived on both sides of that equation — for a frank, evidence-based conversation about what self-regulation actually looks like in practice, who is responsible for it, and what it costs when no one takes ownership. 

WHAT WE COVER 

• What self-regulation actually means as an operational competency — not just a buzzword 
• How stress shows up in leadership, decision-making, and team dynamics when regulation breaks down 
• Why self-regulation is not just a personal responsibility — and what organizations get wrong by treating it that way 
• The unintentional ways organizations dysregulate the very people they depend on 
• What it actually looks like when an organization gets it right — and why it's rarer than it should be 
• The danger of leaders who model "I got screwed, so you will too" — and what that costs the next generation 
• How to train officers to regulate in the moment, not just in theory 
• The "tag team" approach to partner self-awareness and de-escalation on scene 
• A deep dive into Enhanced Trauma-Informed Policing (ETIP) — the framework Dr. Mack co-authored with Dr. Monica Booker that finally turns the lens inward 
• Why so many officers say they have an anger problem — and what's actually going on 
• One thing every organization and every individual can start doing today 

ABOUT DR. GREGORY MACK Dr. Gregory Mack began his law enforcement career 39 years ago with the New York City Police Department, retiring at the rank of Detective Specialist while simultaneously serving as a police psychologist. He received multiple accommodations including a unit citation for his response to the September 11th terrorist attacks. He currently serves as Administrative Psychologist and Deputy Director in the NYPD's Medical Division, is an adjunct professor in the Criminal Justice and Security program at Pace University, and is the founding member of the Institute for Trauma-Informed Public Safety and Education, Inc. A New York State licensed psychologist, Dr. Mack maintains a thriving clinical and forensic consultancy practice in Westchester County. 

RESOURCES MENTIONED 

• Enhanced Trauma-Informed Policing (ETIP) — co-authored by Dr. Gregory Mack and Dr. Monica Booker https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41355078/ 

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week. 

Control the breath. Control the moment. 

We're asking a question many of us think about but rarely say out loud — are the kids all right? For those in law enforcement, public safety, and the military, the honest answer is often no. Not just new recruits, but tenured officers and the next generation of public safety professionals stepping into organizations shaped by constant readiness, high expectations, and cumulative stress.

In this episode, Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with **Kevin MacDonald** — street cop, survivor, and co-author of *Man, You're Crazy* — for a raw, honest conversation about what the job does to people, what leaders can do differently, and why vulnerability may be the most powerful leadership tool we've been ignoring.

WHAT WE COVER:

- How leadership behavior, policy, training, and unspoken cultural norms shape officer well-being long before burnout, discipline, or attrition show up
- The generational curses in policing — and why today's officers are still paying for decisions made 30 and 40 years ago
- Why cops are trained to shut down emotions to function on the job — and what that costs them at home
- The difference between impressing people with your victories and actually connecting through vulnerability
- Why police suicide among retirees is at record rates — and the simple mantra that can save a life
- What forward-thinking leaders are doing differently to strengthen the mind the same way we strengthen the body
- The honest truth about why the kids aren't all right — and what it takes to change that

ABOUT KEVIN MacDONALD
Kevin MacDonald is a retired law enforcement officer, speaker, and co-author of Man, You're Crazy — a book that draws on his lived experience to challenge organizations to confront stigma, rethink what strength really means, and take responsibility for how the job shapes the people doing it. With 13 years of sobriety and a career defined by hard-won vulnerability, Kevin travels the country as a conversation starter for law enforcement organizations ready to do things differently.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST
Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home. New episodes drop every other week.

Control the breath. Control the moment

We're starting where it all begins — with the nervous system. When stress is chronic and recovery never comes, something shifts. Judgment narrows. Emotional regulation erodes. And the leaders we need most begin to disappear — into their offices, into their rank, or into patterns they inherited from generations before them.

For this episode, Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kirschman — who has spent over four decades working directly with first responders across every career stage — and Chief Jack Cawley of Castle Rock, Colorado — a veteran police chief who has navigated the realities of command under pressure while building a department culture rooted in emotional intelligence and people-centered leadership.

WHAT WE COVER

Why command presence is a nervous system skill — not a rank or a title
What chronic stress without recovery actually does to a leader's decision-making and emotional regulation
How dysregulation shows up operationally — in discipline, culture, and the people you're supposed to be leading
Why capable leaders lose the ability to self-regulate — and what happens when they can't
How to hold people accountable with compassion instead of fear, threat, or rank
The generational leadership cycle in policing — and what it takes to break it
Why the academy and field training programs are where culture and self-image are first formed
The honest truth about why self-regulation still isn't treated with the same urgency as firearms and defensive tactics

ABOUT DR. ELLEN KIRSCHMAN
Dr. Ellen Kirschman is a clinical psychologist who has spent over four decades working directly with first responders, helping them understand how cumulative stress, trauma, and survival wiring shape decision-making, identity, and career longevity. She is the author of I Love a Cop and Counseling Cops: What Clinicians Need to Know — foundational works that have helped normalize conversations about stress, family impact, and the sustainability of a career in public safety.

ABOUT CHIEF JACK CAWLEY
Chief Jack Cawley is a veteran police chief serving Castle Rock, Colorado. A leader who has navigated the realities of command under sustained pressure, Chief Cawley has built his department's culture around emotional intelligence, people-centered accountability, and intentional leadership development. In 2018, he was presented with the Igniter of the Year Award by New York Times bestselling author and leadership thinker Simon Sinek.

ABOUT THE JUST BREATHE PODCAST
Just Breathe with Dr. Tracie L. Keesee is a leadership platform for first responders and public safety professionals. Each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision — on the street, in the command staff meeting, and at home.
New episodes drop every other week.
Notice the state you're leading from

We're starting where it all begins — with the body.
When stress hits, your body moves first. Heart rate spikes. Breath shortens. Vision narrows. And by the time conscious thought catches up — the moment has already passed.

For our debut episode, Dr. Tracie L. Keesee sits down with psychologist and stress physiology expert Dr. Laurence Miller to unpack what's actually happening inside a first responder's body during high-stakes decisions — and what leaders, supervisors, and officers can do about it.

WHAT WE COVER
Why breath is a tactical tool — not meditation
The science behind why officers mis-perceive what they see and hear under stress
How to run after-action reviews that account for stress physiology
What good leadership actually looks like when pressure is coming from every direction
Why de-escalation is a performance skill — not a substitute for force
The honest truth about resiliency and what newer officers are pushing back on

ABOUT DR. LAURENCE MILLER
Dr. LAURENCE Miller is a psychologist who has spent decades working with law enforcement, first responders, and military personnel operating in high-pressure environments. He specializes in stress physiology, performance under pressure, and psychological resilience in real-world operations — bridging science and the street for agencies nationwide.

ABOUT The Just Breathe Podcast
Just Breathe with Dr. L Kesse is a leadership podcast for first responders and public safety professionals. Hosted by Dr. Tracie L. Keesee, each episode explores how leadership, judgment, accountability, and wellness are shaped by the internal state of the leader making the decision.

New episodes drop every other Week.
Control the breath. Control the moment.

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