The Grow and Convert Marketing Show

Topic-Based GEO: The Content Strategy Framework for AI Search

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Fri, 10 Apr 2026 07:56:21 -0700

A client told us ChatGPT kept recommending Grow and Convert until she had to reach out. So we copied her exact prompt into an incognito window. We were nowhere to be found. That one example changed how we think about AI search strategy entirely.

In this episode, we introduce Topic-Based GEO, our new framework for content strategy in the age of AI search.

We explain the concept of "invisible prompts" (the personalized context behind every AI search that makes prompt-level tracking unreliable), walk through how to build a topic map for your business, and share practical steps for creating the kind of content that actually gets LLMs to recommend you.

GEO Is Not SEO: The New Rules for Getting Recommended by AI

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 02 Apr 2026 05:42:58 -0700

Most people optimizing for AI search are focused on the wrong metric.

Getting cited by an AI model feels like a win but a citation doesn't mean you're actually influencing the answer.

And after sampling AI search prompts over 20,000 times, the data makes that painfully clear.

In this episode, Devesh and Benji from Grow and Convert sit down with Bernard from Clearscope to break down what's really driving AI recommendations and what isn't.

They get into why Gemini searches an average of 5.7 times per query while ChatGPT barely searches at all, why Google appears to be actively suppressing brand citations even when it mentions you, and why the GEO "hacks" everyone's pushing right now (schema, Reddit, you name it) aren't moving the needle.

The bigger takeaway: training data controls 70–80% of what AI recommends. Web search only affects 20–30%. Which means the content strategy that actually works in this new era isn't about producing more it's about going way more specific.

In this episode:

Why getting cited by AI ≠ influencing the answer
Gemini vs. ChatGPT: how differently they search (and why it matters for your strategy)
The brand suppression finding: why mentioning yourself might be hurting your citations
Why "Content 2.0" is about persona-specific, long-tail content not volume
How Grow and Convert is evolving Pain Point SEO for the AI search era

Relevant articles:
Invisible prompts: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/invisible-prompts/
Topic Based GEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/topic-based-geo/

Your ChatGPT Traffic Is 5-10x Higher Than You Think

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 17 Mar 2026 15:47:10 -0700

Your ChatGPT traffic is probably 5-10x higher than what your analytics shows.

We used to think AI traffic was a small fraction of Google. We showed you the data a few episodes back — ChatGPT was about 3-4% of organic Google traffic across our clients.

We've revised our thinking.

In this episode, we break down why analytics tools are dramatically underreporting LLM-driven traffic and leads, why Google AI Overviews are creating the same attribution blind spot, and what you should actually be doing about it.

The core issue: when someone discovers your brand in ChatGPT or a Google AI Overview, they don't click a trackable link. They open a new tab, Google your name, and land on your homepage. Your analytics says "direct" or "organic." The real source? An LLM.

The only way to know? Ask them.

We walk through real examples from our own data and client accounts, show exactly how this plays out in ChatGPT and Google AI Overviews, and share what we're changing in how we measure and report on content performance.

AI Is About to Create a New Kind of Marketer. Here's Why

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 09 Mar 2026 16:51:54 -0700

For the last 10-15 years, marketing has been dominated by the performance marketer - everything measurable, everything attributable. Creative marketers with big campaign ideas couldn't get the budget or the dev and design resources to bring them to life. AI is about to flip that.

Now a single creative marketer can go from vision to finished product- building interactive tools, data-driven content pieces, mini apps, landing pages- without waiting on developers or designers.

The people with the best ideas (not just the biggest budgets) are about to win.

In this episode, Devesh and Benji break down why this shift is happening, how Grow and Convert is using AI internally to maintain their quality bar while unlocking entirely new types of content projects, and why most agencies pumping out automated AI content are setting themselves up for failure.

We also cover which AI predictions from 2023 actually came true, what Google's "shadow penalties" look like in practice when marketers try to automate content, and why producing written blog posts at a high level is about to become table stakes for good content teams.

Read the article: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-creative-marketer/

Topic Based GEO: Why You Need to Measure AI Visibility with Topics Instead of Individual Prompts

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Wed, 11 Feb 2026 16:40:26 -0800

Did you know that when you ask ChatGPT for a product recommendation, ChatGPT can recommend 50+ different brands for the same prompt?

In this episode, we break down Rand Fishkin's latest research on the extreme variance in AI search results across ChatGPT, Claude, and Google AI Overviews.

His team gathered 600 volunteers, ran nearly 3,000 queries, and the findings are eye-opening. Here are some key insights:

LLMs can share 50 different companies for each product related prompt.
The chance of getting the exact same list of brands twice is less than 1%.
The top 6 brands are mentioned over 80% of the time.

So what does this mean for marketers trying to track their GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) performance?

Most AI visibility tools give you a misleading snapshot — you ran one prompt, you showed up, and you think you're winning. But run it again and you might not show up at all.

We walk through Rand's key charts and takeaways, explain why "rank" is meaningless in AI results (unlike SEO), and show how the top brands in any category still get mentioned consistently 70-90%+ of the time.

Then we hop into Traqer.ai to show how our topic-based GEO approach — running multiple prompt variations per topic — gives you a far more accurate and responsible picture of your actual AI visibility.

If you're doing GEO or reporting on AI visibility to leadership, this is a must-watch.

📖 Rand Fishkin's full blog post: https://sparktoro.com/blog/new-research-ais-are-highly-inconsistent-when-recommending-brands-or-products-marketers-should-take-care-when-tracking-ai-visibility/
🔗 Our blog post on Topic Based GEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/topic-based-geo/
🔗 Check out Traqer: https://www.traqer.ai/

How We Use AI to Edit Content (Without Losing Your Company POV)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 22 Dec 2025 14:46:55 -0800

(Sorry about the audio quality on this one, it was recorded with the wrong microphone-- this episode is better viewed with screen share on Youtube)

Most teams struggle with AI writing tools because they try to use them as a replacement for writers (and they use tools that don't understand the core arguments of what is trying to be said).

In this video, Devesh walks through a real example of how he uses our AI writing tool Wave Writer at Grow & Convert to edit and restructure content. You’ll see how a rough outline and half-formed ideas can be turned into clear, on-brand draft copy, without losing the core ideas and without hallucinations.

The video covers:

How outlining arguments first leads to better AI output
How to speed up the editing and content creation process using Wave Writer
Why writing final prose is the slowest part of content work

If you’re responsible for editing content, managing writers, or shaping content strategy, this video shows a practical way to use AI that supports thinking instead of trying to replace it.

Check out our product https://www.wavewriter.ai if you're interested in using an AI writing tool that understands your business, key arguments and helps speed up the writing process while keeping content quality high.

The Step-by-Step GEO Strategy to Rank in ChatGPT, Perplexity & AI Overviews

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 11 Dec 2025 15:07:04 -0800

Most marketers track their AI visibility… but have no idea what to do next.
This episode shows the exact GEO strategy to actually increase your mentions in ChatGPT and Perplexity.

In this episode, we show you exactly how to implement GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) the strategy brands are using to increase their mentions inside LLM answers.

You’ll learn:

Why most AI rank trackers are inaccurate and how we rebuilt Tracker to scrape real results (not API hallucinations)
How to turn visibility data into action — what content to publish, what topics to prioritize, and where your gaps really are
The GEO Pyramid and why 90% of marketers focus on the wrong tactics
How to find the exact pages LLMs are citing — and how to influence them with targeted content and outreach
Why you MUST choose bottom-of-funnel topics if you want actual pipeline from AI
A step-by-step walkthrough of improving visibility for a real company using owned content + targeted citation outreach

If you want a clear, repeatable strategy for ranking in ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews, this episode breaks it down.

📩 Join the newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter
🔧 Learn more about Tracker: https://www.traqer.ai
GEO Pyramid article

LLM Citation Data: 86% of Sources are Industry-Specific (Not from Generic Sites Like Reddit)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 01 Dec 2025 17:58:40 -0800

Are you focusing your AI visibility and PR efforts on Reddit, Wikipedia, and media sites like The New York Times? You could be wasting your time and money.

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, we dive into the data from our new study on Large Language Model (LLM) citation patterns. We reveal why the advice you see on LinkedIn and in broad industry reports—telling you to chase large, general-purpose sites—is completely misleading for most businesses, especially B2B and niche companies.

What You'll Learn:
86% of citations are for industry specific sites vs. 14% for "general purpose sites": See actual data from our client base that shows 86% of LLM citations for niche topics come from industry-specific publications, while Reddit, Wikipedia, and YouTube account for only 14%.

Differences in how to approach AI visibility for your brand vs. Household name brands: Discover why B2C household names (like Tesla and Peloton) do get cited on general sites, but your niche B2B software company won't.

The problem with measuring random prompts: Understand how broad studies that use 5,000 randomly selected keywords are statistically biased toward consumer queries, making their findings irrelevant to your specific business goals.

A New Tactical Framework: Learn the exact, actionable steps for a Citation Outreach strategy that works : how to choose the right topics, identify the actual cited domains using tools or manual checks, and target your PR efforts where they will actually drive AI visibility.

Stop doing general PR and start showing up in the AI answers that matter to your bottom line.

Links & Resources:
Read the full article for more detail on the study: https://www.growandconvert.com/research/llms-source-industry-sites-more-than-generic-sites/

Check out our AI Visibility Tool: https://traqer.ai

Catch up on our overall GEO Framework: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/prioritized-geo/

Don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment to support the Grow and Convert Marketing Show!

Prioritized GEO: How Brand Should Focus Resources on AI Visibility

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 10 Nov 2025 18:12:54 -0800

Marketers are wasting time chasing the wrong AI tactics. Everyone’s debating “Should we post on Reddit? Add LLM.txt? Write summaries for LLMs?” — but missing the real priority.

In this video, we introduce Prioritized GEO, our framework for how to actually show up in AI search (ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews). We break down:

-Why owned content on your site matters more than offsite mentions

-How to think about AI search visibility

-What actually influences ChatGPT, Perplexity and AI overview results

-And why most “AI hacks” (like key takeaways and LLM.txt) don’t move the needle

If you want to understand how AI decides which brands to recommend — and how to position yours to be the one it chooses — this is the video to watch.

📘 Read the full article: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/prioritized-geo/
Check out https://traqer.ai -- our new AI visibility tool
🎧 Subscribe to the Grow & Convert podcast for more in-depth conversations.

SEO vs. AI Traffic: What Our Client Data Really Shows

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Wed, 24 Sep 2025 14:55:13 -0700

Everyone says SEO is dead… but our client data tells a different story. We compare SEO traffic vs. AI traffic (ChatGPT, Perplexity, etc.) and reveal what’s actually driving conversions — and why it’s not “SEO vs. AI,” it’s both.
___
SEO is dead? Not so fast.

In this episode, we share real client data comparing traditional SEO traffic vs. AI traffic (ChatGPT, Perplexity, DeepSeek, etc.). The numbers tell a very different story than the LinkedIn fear-mongering around SEO dying.

-AI traffic is growing, but it’s still only ~3–5% of SEO traffic for most clients

-Conversions often come from unexpected places (hint: not just ChatGPT)

-Declines in SEO traffic don’t mean SEO is dead — they often show up as branded searches or conversions through other channels

-Attribution is getting harder, but that doesn’t mean the channel stopped working

We break down the myths, show the actual ratios, and explain why you shouldn’t buy into the “SEO vs. AI” narrative. It’s not either/or — they work together.

If you’ve seen graphs going down and clients freaking out about AI, this episode will help you cut through the noise and actually understand what’s happening.

How to Increase AI Visibility (Common Mistakes People Make)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 15 Sep 2025 09:34:34 -0700

Are you worried your competitors are “winning” in AI search results?
You’re not alone. A lot of marketers, CMOs, and founders are asking the same thing.

In this episode of the Grow & Convert Marketing Show, we break down:

What AI visibility actually means (and why most tools get it wrong)
Why “share of voice” metrics can create unnecessary panic
How to separate meaningful prompts from noise
The strong connection between SEO rankings and AI overview rankings
A simple framework for deciding which topics actually matter for your brand

Rather than chasing every metric or competitor mention, we show you how to focus on the right queries, do the SEO fundamentals first, and build a strategy that drives long-term results.

If you’ve ever felt stressed looking at an AI visibility report, this episode will help you filter out the noise and focus on what actually grows your business.

How SEO will Change with AI Search

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 10 Jun 2025 12:09:21 -0700

AI search is a fundamentally different search experience from Google, and the implications are massive for how people discover brands and products.

Here's what we've discovered so far:

- People don't just type keywords into ChatGPT - they have detailed conversations with tons of context
- Top-of-funnel "what is" content is officially dead in AI search
- Your positioning and value props determine if you get recommended (or ignored)
- Specific pain point content now matters more than ever

Key insights from this episode:
✅ How ChatGPT positions different companies (and why some get terrible descriptions)
✅ Why broad content strategies will fail in the AI search era
✅ The new content approach that actually gets you mentioned

We'll show you actual ChatGPT conversations from prospects who found us, plus live searches showing how different agencies get positioned.

The bottom line: AI search rewards specificity and clear positioning. Generic content and broad messaging will make you invisible.

🔗 Check out our AI search ranking tracker: https://traqer.ai

📖 Read the full article: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-search/

What's your experience with AI search? Drop a comment below!

We built an AI rank tracking tool: Traqer.ai! Here's how it works...

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Fri, 06 Jun 2025 09:31:29 -0700

We Built an AI Search Ranking Tool (And You Can Use It Too!)

Tired of wondering if your brand shows up when people ask ChatGPT, Perplexity, or Google AI for recommendations? We were too. That's why we built Traqer.ai - the first tool designed specifically for agencies and companies to track their brand mentions across AI search engines.
In this episode, we share the complete backstory of how we went from manually checking AI rankings for clients to building our own solution. You'll see exactly how the tool works, why existing options weren't cutting it for agencies, and how we're using it to guide our content strategy.

What you'll learn:

- Why AI search visibility is becoming crucial for lead attribution
- How to track your brand across ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, and Google AI
- The key differences between AI search and traditional SEO tracking
- Live walkthrough of Traqer.ai
- How to use keyword variations to understand your AI visibility gaps

Perfect for: Marketing agencies, SEO professionals, brand managers, and anyone wondering "Am I showing up in AI search results?"

The tool handles unlimited brands (perfect for agencies), tracks specific keywords you care about, and shows you the exact AI responses where your brand appears. Plus, we're sharing our honest take on the challenges of AI search attribution and why this approach works.

Try Traqer.ai yourself for free with a 7 day trial: http://traqer.ai

Here's articles that were referenced in the video:
How SEO Will Change in a World of AI Search: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-search/
Does Google SEO Affect LLM Optimization? We Analyzed 400+ Keywords to Find Out: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/google-seo-and-llmo/

We're Building an AI Writing Tool That Solves the Problems We See With AI Content: A Sneak Peek

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 21 Apr 2025 16:09:20 -0700

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, we discuss our journey creating an AI writing tool designed to mirror the way we produce content.

Unlike existing solutions that prioritize speed over quality, our tool first deeply understands your business before generating content.

After discovering that 83% of marketers use AI-assisted content despite quality concerns, we identified the fundamental problem: generic AI writing tools produce "Google research papers" that lack a company's unique voice and arguments.

Our solution?

A tool that analyzes your existing content to create a comprehensive "brand summary" capturing your business's value proposition, features, target customers, and pain points.

The highlight of our tool is the "super brief" feature - simply input a keyword and the AI analyzes search intent, SERP patterns, and suggests content formats while providing ways to pitch your business specifically for that keyword.

Key Learnings:

-Most AI writing tools fail because they don't understand your business's unique positioning and arguments
-83% of marketers use AI content despite quality concerns, primarily for time savings
-The "brand summary" approach ensures AI truly understands your business before writing
-Our tool generates strategic ideas (not just language), reversing the typical -AI writing workflow
-AI writing can be high-quality and conversion-focused when it understands your business first
-The "super brief" feature analyzes keywords and SERPs to suggest angles and approaches to produce pieces that will rank
-Effective AI content requires understanding both what to write and how to write it

We'd love your feedback about the tool and suggestions to make it better. Please leave feedback in the comments.

Articles that we reference in the video:
Pain Point SEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/pain-point-seo/
How Marketers Are Using AI for Writing [Survey]: https://www.growandconvert.com/ai/ai-writing-survey/

How to Create Comparison Content (Without Making Your CEO Nervous): A Data Backed Approach

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 12:18:52 -0700

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, Devesh and Benji reveal why comparison keywords convert at a shocking 8.43%+ rate - and why most companies are afraid to target them.

We break down:
- Common objections from leadership teams that are hesitant to target these types of keywords
- Three practical approaches to creating comparison content without "trashing" competitors
- Examples of competitor and alternatives articles from companies like ClimbHire, Boken, and TapClicks

If you've been avoiding competitor keywords because they feel uncomfortable or unprofessional, this episode will show you how to approach them tastefully while capturing high-intent buyers already searching for alternatives.

Helpful articles:
SEO conversion rates: https://www.growandconvert.com/conversion-rate-optimization/average-seo-conversion-rate/
Competitor comparison pages: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/competitor-comparison-landing-pages/
SERP analysis: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/how-to-do-serp-analysis/

Content Writing Teardown- How to Improve Blog Writing for SEO (Live Editing)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 01 Apr 2025 11:22:11 -0700

This one is likely better to be watched on Youtube (so you can see the writing and editing).

In this episode of the Grow & Convert Marketing Show, we break down a real blog post about website feedback tools to reveal common content writing mistakes. Watch as we critique the article and transform it from generic to compelling by:

- Identifying proper search intent and avoiding the "high school research paper" intro
- Showing how to position your true product differentiator instead of using generic claims
- Demonstrating how to write for advanced audiences who already understand your category
- Explaining why pain points should be concise and relevant to your reader's current stage

Whether you're writing bottom-of-funnel content or product comparisons, these principles will help you create more effective content marketing that actually drives conversions.

📈 Join our newsletter: https://www.growandconvert.com/newsletter/
🎧 Listen to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-and-convert-marketing-show/id1652941589
📘 Learn more about SEO content writing: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/seo-content-writing/
The detail principle for writing good blog posts: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/how-to-write-a-good-blog-post/

How to Analyze Google's SERP Like Grow and Convert: The Secret to Content That Ranks

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 24 Mar 2025 12:52:29 -0700

In this episode of the Grow and Convert Marketing Show, Devesh and Benji break down their proven SERP analysis framework - the process they use for clients to identify high-converting content opportunities.

Watch as they analyze real SERP examples for AI writing tools keywords, revealing:

How to determine if a keyword is worth targeting
The difference between category and jobs-to-be-done keywords from a SERP perspective
How to spot opportunities in mixed-intent SERPs
When to create one piece vs. multiple pieces for similar keywords
Why high search volume doesn't always equal high priority
How to use SERP analysis to rank

Whether you're creating content for clients or your own business, this practical walkthrough shows you how to create content that actually ranks and converts.

📈 Join our newsletter: https://www.growandconvert.com/newsle...
🎧 Listen to the podcast: [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...]
📘 Learn more about Pain Point SEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Read our blog post on SERP analysis: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/ho...

Top vs. Bottom of the Funnel: Finding Your Brand's Unique 'Wow Moment'

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 24 Feb 2025 10:41:08 -0800

In this episode, we discuss the power of brand marketing versus our typical focus on bottom-of-funnel content.

While Grow and Convert is known for our bottom-of-funnel first approach to content marketing, we explore how creating a strong brand presence generates "free leads" - those customers who can't pinpoint exactly how they found us, but remember our brand when they need our services.

We cover key topics including:

When to focus on bottom-of-funnel vs. when to invest in broader brand building
Why top-of-funnel SEO content often fails to grow a brand
How different companies create their unique "wow moments" (Dropbox, Peloton, ClearScope)
Finding the right marketing approach based on your company's natural strengths and differentiators

How to Write High-Converting Blog Posts (With Real Examples)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 17 Feb 2025 09:28:32 -0800

In this episode, we break down our proven framework for writing high-converting blog posts that can outrank even the biggest competitors. Through three real-world examples, we show you exactly how to write bottom-of-funnel content that both ranks and converts.

You'll learn:

How to write ultra-specific content that shows deep industry expertise
Why most category blog posts fail to convert (and how to fix them)
Why we prefer using blog posts to target category keywords over landing pages

🔍 Case Studies Featured:

Toro TMS (QuickBooks trucking software)
ServiceTitan (inventory management for electrical contractors)
Fusion Academy (best schools for sensory processing disorder)

We Secretly Published an AI-Written Blog Post (Here's What We Learned)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 06 Feb 2025 14:36:16 -0800

We conducted a secret experiment: writing and publishing a Grow & Convert blog post without telling anyone that we used AI to produce it. In this video, we reveal how it went and share honest insights about using AI for content creation.

Our content strategist and writer Katelyn Urich walks through her process of using different AI tools (Claude and NotebookLM) to write a full blog post, the unexpected challenges she faced, and why the experience actually made her writing worse.

We discuss:

-Why traditional AI writing approaches lead to "mirage content", in other words content that looks good, but lacks substance
-How we used NotebookLM in an unusual way to maintain our signature brand voice and expertise
-The hidden problem with AI writing that becomes apparent only after multiple rounds of editing
-Why AI writing tools might save time for some content creators but fall short for high-stakes content
-Practical ways to use AI as a writing assistant without compromising quality

We share both the promising and problematic aspects of AI writing tools, helping you make informed decisions about incorporating them into your content process.

Does SEO help you "rank" on ChatGPT? We analyzed 16 Companies' Keywords to find out

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 08:48:32 -0800

We dive deep into our study examining the correlation between Google rankings and AI search tool recommendations. Join Benji, Devesh, and special guest Katelyn as we analyze data from 16 clients across 415 keywords to understand how Google rankings influence visibility in tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity.

Key Findings:

70%+ correlation between Google page 1 rankings and AI tool recommendations
Higher Google ranking positions (top 3) showed even stronger correlation
Domain Rating shows significant correlation with AI tool visibility
Different patterns observed across industry verticals and keyword types

📊 Study Details:

16 clients analyzed
415 keywords examined
Tools studied: ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude
Focus on bottom-of-funnel keywords

💡 Key Takeaways:

Strong correlation suggests traditional SEO efforts may help with AI visibility
Higher domain authority correlates with better AI tool presence
Service businesses showed different patterns than SaaS companies
Medical content showed lower AI visibility, possibly due to liability concerns

🔗 Resources Mentioned:

Full study writeup coming soon on growandconvert.com
Follow us for updates: @growandconvert
Subscribe to our newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter

AI's Impact on Content Marketing in 2025: Search Changes, Content Generation, and New Survey Data

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:11:45 -0800

In this episode, we dive deep into how AI is transforming content marketing and SEO in 2025. We explore both the search and content creation aspects of AI, sharing real data from our agency experience and a recent survey of content marketers.

Key Topics Covered:
[0:00] Introduction and episode overview
[1:00] Background on our recent travels and company retreat
[2:00] Two main aspects of AI in content marketing: content generation and search
[4:00] Changes in search behavior and SEO with AI tools
[6:00] Real examples of leads coming from ChatGPT
[8:00] How AI tools recommend content differently from Google
[11:00] Our analysis of AI tool recommendations vs Google rankings
[17:00] Why content still matters for AI visibility
[21:00] Changes in content consumption patterns
[24:00] The future of content distribution across channels
[29:00] AI content writing experiments and survey results
[36:00] Challenges with AI-generated content
[39:00] Survey insights on AI content adoption

💡 Key Findings:

70%+ correlation between Google rankings and AI tool recommendations
83% of surveyed marketers have published AI-assisted content
Major challenges remain with AI content quality and precision
Content remains crucial for visibility in both Google and AI tools

🔗 Resources Mentioned:

Full survey results coming soon at growandconvert.com/blog
Follow us on Twitter @growandconvert
Subscribe to our newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter

📱 Connect With Us:
Website: https://www.growandconvert.com
Twitter: @growandconvert
Newsletter: growandconvert.com/newsletter
Don't forget to subscribe for more insights on content marketing, SEO, and AI! New episodes every week.

How to Use Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) Keywords to Boost Blog Conversions 🚀 | SEO & Content Strategy

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:09:12 -0700

In this video, we dive deep into how to use Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) keywords for your blog content to drive higher conversions.

📌 What You'll Learn:

- What are Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) keywords?
- Examples of JTBD keywords
- How to come up with JTBD keywords for your business
- JTBD conversion data
- Which JTBD keywords convert the highest.

💡 Don’t forget to subscribe for more content on SEO, content marketing strategies, and conversion optimization!

Competitor Keywords: The Highest Converting Strategy in the Pain Point SEO Framework

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 15:09:19 -0700

Competitor keywords are the highest converting type of keyword in the pain point SEO framework. More on SEO conversion rates here: https://www.growandconvert.com/conversion-rate-optimization/average-seo-conversion-rate/

We discuss:
- Should you create landing pages vs. blog posts to target competitor keywords
- Vs. Keywords and a more advanced strategy of going after vs. keywords
- Alternatives Keywords
- Writing tips for going after competitor and vs. keywords
- and more!

Additional reading:
Landing page vs. blog posts:
https://www.growandconvert.com/conversion-rate-optimization/landing-pages-vs-blog-posts/
Pain Point SEO:
https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/pain-point-seo/
Circuit Case Study
https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/scaling-seo-traffic/

Mastering Category Keywords: A Strategy to Grow Blog Post Conversions

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 09 Sep 2024 13:06:22 -0700

n this episode, we do a in-depth dive into what category keywords are and how to use them to drive more blog post conversions.

In the reverse marketing funnel diagram that you can find in our blog post on Pain Point SEO, category keywords are some of the highest converting keywords. We explain how to identify which keywords would be best to target and share data on different ways to approach them to increase your conversion rate.

SEO conversion rate article

Episode 27- How We Improved Blog Post Conversion Rates by 66%-950% Through Writing

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 15 Aug 2024 11:47:52 -0700

Historically, we only updated blog posts to try to increase ranking positions. However, through that process of updating blog posts, we realized how much the actual writing of pieces matters.

Specifically, we've been updating blog posts for two different clients that helped sell and position the product or service better and have seen conversion rate increases between 66%-950% per blog post.

We share our thoughts as to why this is and make the case for why more businesses should adopt our approach to blog post writing.

Relevant articles:
https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/how-often-should-website-content-be-updated/
https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/secondary-keywords/

Episode 26: Brand Marketing vs. Performance Marketing. Which is better?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 01 Aug 2024 14:58:50 -0700

A recent news story from someone that worked at Nike is making its way around Twitter and LinkedIn. The ex-employee claims that the loss of $25B has to do with Nike's focus on performance marketing instead of brand marketing.

Marketers are taking to Twitter and LinkedIn to take sides:
"See, this is why you should focus on brand marketing" - Brand Marketer
"No! Performance marketing still works"- Performance marketer

We share our thoughts on this topic and share when we think each type of marketing makes sense. Hope you enjoy the debate!

The linkedin post: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nike-epic-saga-value-destruction-massimo-giunco-llplf/?trackingId=4hwmp4UlQNyDwPI%2F%2BSN2kA%3D%3D

Episode 25: June and July Agency Update - New Record Highs & Is the Economy Playing into Growth?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 18 Jul 2024 15:16:40 -0700

Although we've largely moved away from doing episodes about our agency and have focused more on marketing strategy episodes, we made a commitment to sharing our growth journey and struggles as we go.

In this episode, we'll share our stats for June and July - both new clients and churn - and we discuss the issues we're facing.

Specifically:
- How we're almost at capacity and how we're solving this
- How hiring is a growth limiter
- Why growing quickly isn't advantageous to an agency

and more...

Episode 24: How Long Does it Take to Get SEO and Content Marketing Results?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 11 Jul 2024 14:14:49 -0700

We often get asked by prospects interested in working with us, "how long does it take to start seeing results from SEO and content marketing? It's not an easy question to answer because there are multiple factors that go into it:
1. What is the definition of results?
2. What is the conversion goal? Trials, demos, MQLs, SQLs, etc.
3. How many conversions are you already driving through other channels?
And more...

In this episode, we share a ton of different data to help answer this question. We share our own client data to show how long it takes to start seeing rankings and conversions. We share how we do expectation setting around rankings, traffic and conversions. Then we answer some common questions around does domain rating play into speed and how does keyword difficulty affect rankings?

Articles featured in the episode:
Disruption stories: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/disruption-stories/
How long does it take for content marketing to work: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/how-long-does-it-take-for-content-marketing-to-work/

Episode 23: How A Content Strategy Evolves Over Time

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 20:25:17 -0700

In this episode, we talk through how a content strategy evolves overtime. We break down content strategy into a 3-tier system to help you understand how the process evolves.

How a content strategy evolves:
Tier 1: Testing ability and time to rank
Tier 2: Scaling
Tier 3: Maintaining/Defending rankings

We share our thought process around how to test keywords and how to measure success throughout an engagement, or through your work inside of a business.

Hope you enjoy this episode!

Episode 22: Why Most Companies Shouldn't AB Test to Improve Conversions (And What to Do Instead)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:01:36 -0700

In this episode, we debate why most companies shouldn't AB test. AB testing has become super popular over the years... Executives often want you to AB test every little thing to try to maximize the impact of all of your marketing efforts.

Devesh explains why for most companies, it doesn't make sense to AB test.

We share that reasoning and then we talk about what you should do instead of AB testing to increase conversions. Devesh shares some funny stories from his time running an AB testing agency. Then Devesh shares how to use a conversion rate calculator.

We hope you enjoy this episode!

Episode 21: May Agency Update- New Record Highs + Marketing and Churn Update

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 11 Jun 2024 20:02:32 -0700

In this monthly update, we share our client count relative to our goal, our churn, how many leads we got in May and our general sentiment around leads. Then we share what marketing has and hasn't worked and how marketing differs for service businesses.

Episode 20: How to Interview Subject Matter Experts and Add Differentiation to Articles

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Fri, 07 Jun 2024 05:28:05 -0700

When you've identified a keyword or topic for a blog post, how do you get the arguments that go in your piece? We interview subject matter experts at Grow and Convert to accomplish this. In this video, we share how we prep for interviews with subject matter experts, who to interview, and how to add differentiation in your articles when writing for SEO bottom of the funnel keywords.

Episode 19- Do we take this series in a different direction?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 30 May 2024 18:10:45 -0700

Devesh and I debate whether we should focus more on how-to content on this channel because it seems to be what gets the most viewership and engagement.

We reflect on the series so far, our overall goal of doubling the agency and discuss whether we continue the series as is, or we go down a slightly different path.

If you've enjoyed certain episodes, please let us know which ones you've loved in the comments. Or, feel free to let us know topics you'd like us to create videos on going forward.

Episode 18 - Hiring Your First Head of Marketing and What They Should Do in the First 90 Days

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 23 May 2024 16:18:23 -0700

Your business is starting to grow and now you need more of a process around marketing... so you're thinking of hiring your first marketer.

What is the right profile of the marketer you should hire?
What should that marketer focus on in the first 90 days?
How should they think about what marketing channels to focus on?
What's a good budget to start with?

We answer these questions and more in this episode. We share, from our experience, the mistakes that founders make when hiring their first marketer and how they should think about hiring.

We share stories, examples and more. Hope you enjoy this episode.

P.S. We're starting to shift the content of this channel to more strategy focus. Let us know if you like this topic in the comments.

Video Resources:
Positioning: https://www.growandconvert.com/marketing/positioning/
Positioning Case Study: https://www.growandconvert.com/marketing/positioning-case-study/
Pivoting our service offering from course to agency:
https://www.growandconvert.com/marketing/course-launch-agency/

Episode 17 - How to Write Non-Basic SEO Content (Even With Basic SEO Keywords)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 09 May 2024 16:58:37 -0700

In this episode, Devesh starts off by sharing the two goals of the content pieces we write for clients. Then he shares examples explaining the differences between how we write articles vs. how most blog writers write articles.

We dissect the differences in how we write blog post introductions, body copy and share why we think it's important to have subject matter experts make the arguments that go inside of blog posts.

This episode should help you learn how to write better copy inside of articles that are targeting SEO keywords.

Article examples:

Omnichannel reporting example: https://www.tapclicks.com/resources/b...
Segment example: https://segment.com/growth-center/omn...
Mandala AI Example:
https://blog.mandalasystem.com/en/omn...

Grow and Convert writing related articles:

The detail principle for writing good blog posts: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...
Writing great blog introductions: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...
Pain point copywriting: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Episode 16: April Recap - Our Highest Client Count and Revenue Ever

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 02 May 2024 15:06:32 -0700

In this episode, we share where we are relative to our doubling the agency goal. Then we talk through what's been working from a marketing perspective and some of the operational challenges that we're anticipating if we keep growing this quickly.

Episode 15: Disruption Stories - What They Are and How to Write Them

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 25 Apr 2024 15:19:58 -0700

In Episode 10, the episode about content strategies for new businesses, we shared that we were planning on doing a disruption story for one of our clients.

In this episode, we share who the client is (Mirascope.io), the article and talk through some decisions that were made when writing the story.

Then we share a couple of other examples of disruption stories that we've produced for clients.

Episode 14: Can SEO Content also be Thought Leadership Content? Our Thoughts.

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:45:09 -0700

Can SEO content also be "thought leadership content?" Many people think these two kinds of content are completely different. More specifically, that you can't share thought leadership type ideas inside of SEO content and get articles to rank.

We share a different view. We think that SEO and thought leadership ideas do go together. In this video, we share multiple examples of thought leadership ideas being included inside of SEO focused articles and show how they're able to rank against articles that all share largely the same ideas.

We think that Google wants more differentiation in content and will start to reward differentiation more in the SERPS.

Episode 13: March Recap, A New Record High in Sight?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:14:29 -0700

March was a challenging month for us. We had our first churn of the year- which was not a great way to start the month- however it ended on a positive note.

We discuss the churn, some new clients, our lead numbers and then share some ideas for changes we're going to be making to our marketing.

Enjoy.

Episode 12: Why you SHOULD measure the ROI of an individual piece of content and how to track in GA4

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 04 Apr 2024 16:02:25 -0700

LinkedIn influencer claims that: "Measuring the ROI of an individual piece of content (like this LinkedIn video, for instance) is not only a huge waste of time, it’s flat out not accurate.

When it comes to “ROI”, focus on measuring the ROI of the *channel* instead of each individual piece of content."

In this video, we break down why that argument is completely flawed.

We discuss how having the article level of granularity in conversion data is what led to the creation of Pain Point SEO and how this informs future content pieces that generate ROI.

Then we share a new process for tracking conversions using a combination of GA4 and BigQuery.

Episode 11- Scaling Writing Operations by Hiring an Editor

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 28 Mar 2024 14:50:47 -0700

In this episode, we discuss whether we should hire an editor to help scale writing operations. Devesh voices his frustration by spending so much time editing pieces -- most of his time in the agency is dedicated to editing and he feels like he doesn't have time to focus elsewhere.

We propose the options of hiring an outside agency to help with editing, whether we should focus on hiring someone internally, and also discuss other ideas and options.

Episode 10 - Creating A Content Strategy for a New Business and Our Disruption Story Framework

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 21 Mar 2024 15:35:04 -0700

In this episode, we share why we took a client with a new business and domain rating of only 0.5 (didn't even know this was possible). Then we share the approach we're taking to grow their business from the ground up with content.

As part of the content strategy for this new business, we decided to create a disruption story for them. We talk about what the disruption story framework is, how we came up with the angle and idea for them and then talk through how the team outlined the piece.

Episode 9- February Monthly Recap: We Need to Free up Devesh's Time From Editing.

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 14 Mar 2024 14:57:49 -0700

In this episode, we share our client stats for the month of February. We analyze the leads we've received, we share why we don't work with software development companies as clients and share some ideas on how we'd attack SEO if we were a software development company, and then we spend a lengthy time discussing if we should hire an editor.

The main challenge going forward is that we need to free up Devesh's time as most of it is spent editing new strategists and some of our current strategists. If we scale, we need to get him out of the day to day operations.

We talk through the pros and cons of hiring an editor, then finish the video talking through some other big picture challenges for the business.

Episode 8 - How We Prove the Value of SEO and Content Marketing to Clients

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 19:09:32 -0800

Seven months into one of our engagements, the CEO asked us "when will the volume of high-quality leads start to go up?" The typical answer from most marketers is to say "I don't know" or "it depends," but we wanted to provided a more data driven answer.

We knew that the client was likely 1-2 months away from seeing a big lift in the volume of leads due to where they were already ranking for high-intent keywords. Now, we had the challenge of presenting the argument and data to them.

In Episode 8, we share projections that we did to help make the case that we were on the cusp of achieving ROI and share our thoughts and analysis of where the client is at 7 months into the engagement.

Episode 7 - How We're Getting SEO Rankings Back for Clients

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 29 Feb 2024 17:01:04 -0800

In Episode 7, we bring in a guest. David Klose, one of our content strategists, joins us to talk about his experience updating blog posts. More specifically, we discuss 2 client accounts that had declining results (both ranking and leads) and how there was a need to get rankings back up.

David shares the approach he took on two different accounts to bring the accounts back from a low in the engagement to new all-time-highs.

This episode shares a mix between the thought process that was going on behind the scenes internally as well as more of the tactical approach we took to recover rankings.

Hope you enjoy this episode!

Here's his article on his approach to reclaim rankings: https://www.growandconvert.com/seo/secondary-keywords/

Episode 6 - Should We Start A New Service Offering?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 22 Feb 2024 21:28:54 -0800

In Episode 6, we get recommended as an agency from a known entity in the startup space, but the prospect wants a service that we don't really offer. We debate whether we should create a new service offering to take on the new client.

Content brand post: https://www.growandconvert.com/content-marketing/content-brand/

Timestamps:

0:00 Episode Preview

0:42 Doubling Agency Intro

1:00 Prospect approaches us about a LinkedIn Service
4:20 Should we start a new service offering?
11:16 Our decision

Episode 5: Our Highest Client Count, Ever?!?! (Monthly Recap)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 15 Feb 2024 13:20:42 -0800

In Episode 5, we recap our first month since starting our challenge. We grew the highest amount in one month since starting our agency. We share our client count, where the mix of revenue is coming from and then analyze the 3 new clients that signed on for February.

Episode 4: When is the right time to build processes?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 08 Feb 2024 14:35:15 -0800

In Episode 4, one of our strategists is having trouble with an article interview and Devesh needs to jump in and take over the interview to steer it in the right direction.

We ask the question, is this a good use of Devesh's time? We haven't really built any processes around interviewing, do we now need to build more training or processes around interviewing or is this a one-off issue?

We talk through how to resolve this specific issue and then broaden out to talk more broadly about when it's a good time to build processes as you grow.

We hope you enjoy this episode.

Episode 3: Houston, We Have A Churn Problem

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Wed, 31 Jan 2024 16:08:30 -0800

After doing some analysis on clients that dropped in 2023, we realized that we have an issue with our churn rate. On average, clients stick with us for 12 months, which in other words means: we turn over all of our clients every year.

In Episode 3, we talk through various ways to improve our churn rate: From changing pricing, to contract length, to various other ideas.

Episode 2: A Client Isn't Happy With Their First Article. What Do We Do?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 12:24:47 -0800

We signed a new client on a year long contract, sent them the first article and they weren't happy with it. On top of that, the strategist and writer that was managing the account didn't feel like they were a good fit to keep running the account.

In Episode 2, we talk through what we did to resolve the situation. We weighed various options from: 1. Is it worth it to keep the client? 2. Do we need to bring in a new writer/strategist on this account? 3. Does Devesh need to take over writing to get this account in a better spot. We try to answer the question, when does it make sense to get back into the business vs. working on the business?

We hope you enjoy it.

Articles related to this episode:
Content brand

Episode 1: Announcing Our New Public Challenge: Doubling our Agency in 2 Years

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 13:49:52 -0800

We're starting a new series where we document our journey trying to double the size of our agency over the next couple of years. This is episode one of the series where we explain why we're ready to scale our business, what our goals are, and why were documenting the journey on Youtube. Then we do a deep dive into our business during 2023, share why clients churned and our plans for 2024.

We hope you enjoy it!

Read the full article here explaining the launch of the series: https://www.growandconvert.com/doubling-our-agency/public-challenge-doubling-agency/

0:00 Episode preview
0:32 Intro
0:49 Explaining the Doubling our Agency series
2:50 Moving from a lifestyle business to a business we’re scaling
5:00 Why we want to double our agency now
9:18 Our team and motivations behind growing
11:28 Why share everything on Youtube?
14:02 Why expand beyond just doing pain point SEO for ourselves?
25:08 Topics we’re going to talk about in future videos
26:58 Deep dive: Recapping 2023 (from our highest revenue ever to a ~40% revenue drop!)
38:21 Going through all of our 2023 one-by-one to determine the causes
47:44 Analysis of sources of churn
51:03 Our client count ending 2023
52:24 Looking forward into 2024

How This Bootstrapped Help Desk Software has Lasted over 10 Years Against VC Backed Competitors

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:15:28 -0800

In our latest episode, we interview founder Ian Landsman about how he started the help desk software Helpspot back in the early 2000s and how he's lasted 15+ years against funded big name players like Zendesk, HelpScout, and more.

We get into the details about what he did in the early days to launch his company, why he never really had a focus on marketing until recently, and we share some of the rankings that we've been able to generate for their business in an extremely competitive category.

Sections:
0:00 Intro
1:13 The founding story of Helpspot
5:26 Funny story about software development
7:49 Laravel
8:48 How Helpspot was funded
9:35 Pre-SaaS
11:56 How Helpspot launched
12:56 Early SEO
15:39 Enter the competitors- Zendesk, etc.
18:27 Team size
20:29 Why Helpspot never invested in marketing
25:26 Difference between VC funded and bootstrapped help desk software
29:15 Did you ever think about selling your business?
31:43 Marketing and positioning
35:23 Why invest in SEO
40:37 Results from G&C
47:10 Attribution of leads to SEO/Content
53:52 Helpspot 2023 and beyond

SurveyMonkey Acquired Their Last Business. Now They’re Back to Grow Vocal Video- G&C Interview

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:22:24 -0800

We're trying something new. Many of our clients have really interesting backgrounds and stories, so we decided to interview them.

In this podcast, we interview the Vocal Video team to learn where they got the idea for Vocal Video, learnings from their experience selling their past company TechValidate to SurveyMonkey, how their past experiences informed their marketing strategy, why they chose SEO/content marketing as a channel, how they launched their product and more...

Please let us know what you think of this format.

The ROI of SEO

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:11:09 -0800

There are many people that don't know how to calculate the ROI of SEO. In particular, they don't understand a key principle of SEO's ROI: it gets better as time passes. Why? Because unlike paid channels where you need to spend more for every extra click you get, in SEO you start accumulating or stacking pages ranking at the top of Google search results, while your spend doesn't increase.

So as you do SEO for longer, you get more traffic and more leads for the same monthly cost, yielding you better and better ROI.

In this podcast, we discuss this in depth, using examples and graphs (if you'd like to see them, find our video on Youtube).

We aren't making the argument that SEO is better than other channels, just that you need to think about it differently. With other channels, you may see a fast ROI, but leads get more expensive overtime and you need to continue to invest more into it, and with SEO, it takes longer to get an ROI but costs come down dramatically overtime.

SEO works well when you have an existing channel that is driving leads already and you can build this simultaneously over the long term.

Will ChatGPT replace writers and content marketers? Our thoughts.

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 11:31:11 -0800

In the past couple of months, we've had an increasing number of people ask us our thoughts on ChatGPT and how it will affect the world of content marketing and content writing.

We've seen people take extremes: People saying they are going to use ChatGPT instead of hiring writers or content marketers going forward. Then the opposite, people saying ChatGPT has no value in writing or content marketing.

In this podcast, we wanted to try to answer the question, "how can ChatGPT be used?" by sharing a number of different blog posts and writing prompts, and sharing our thoughts along the way about where ChatGPT excels, and where it falls short.

We hope you enjoy it!

A special thank you to Stacey Moore for helping educate us on the topic. Stacey has been using her own AI tool to assist producing content, you can check out her work at staceymoore.com

Sections:
0:00 Why we’re doing this episode on ChatGPT
5:27 The kind of writing we do at Grow and Convert
7:45 ChatGPT example 1: Produce a post on B2B Content Marketing Courses (Hard Example)
14:49 Some downsides of example 1 and why it falls short of good writing
17:19 Recapping what we’ve gone over so far
19:37 Have Chat GPT produce certain sections of the post on B2B Content Marketing Coursed
25:01 Contrasting ChatGPT to our post
29:39 ChatGPT Example 2: Daily Standup meetings post
34:14 Downsides of example 2: Contrasting it against what we wrote for the same subject
37:24 Using ChatGPT for B2C blogging and thoughts on selling to beginners
40:01 ChatGPT example 3: B2C - Produce a post on heat pumps
43:53 Downsides of example 3: How do you stand out when you’re producing the same thing as everyone?
47:25 Mistakes people make in hiring content marketers/ writers
49:06 How do you figure out search intent?
50:38 Chat GPT example 4: Running tips (easiest example)
54:59 Example 4 takeaways
57:21 Final takeawys on ChatGPT and AI writing

Why We're Thinking of Repositioning from a Content Marketing Agency to SEO Agency

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:21:18 -0800

In the latest episode of Grow and Convert Deep Dives, we have an open discussion around a topic that we've been thinking about a lot lately: Should we reposition our business as a SEO agency instead of a content marketing one?

We thought it would be interesting to everyone to lay out the arguments, challenges and opportunities that we see in repositioning our business before we go through with it. We're still unsure if we're going to do it, but we'd be curious to what everyone thinks after they give this a listen!

Here's our old article on the reasonings for why we positioned ourselves as a content marketing agency and how we thought through that:
https://www.growandconvert.com/market...

Sections:
0:00 Intro - Why we’re thinking of repositioning our business
2:26 The story of what led up to us thinking about switching from a content agency to SEO agency
8:28 Our we hurting our business by branding ourselves a content marketing agency?!
11:48 We see an opportunity in repositioning as an SEO agency- the why
17:06 How most agencies and clients think about SEO vs. How we do
27:22 Recapping our arguments for repositioning our agency so far
28:45 Potential challenges from changing our positioning
36:35 Our current positioning/messaging and why it may be holding us back
39:39 Current thinking around where we’ll end up with messaging our service
41:43 Difference in positioning between SEO and content agency
43:13 Devesh rants!
44:53 Increasing the perceived value of a service
49:47 Challenges companies have with messaging their business
51:52 Reflecting on our past positioning and where we go from here

Managing Remote Workers: How to Manage Outcomes Over Outputs

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 08:26:11 -0700

In this episode of Grow and Convert Deep Dives, we discuss a philosophy we have about managing remote workers (or workers in general): How to manage by outcomes instead of outputs. Oftentimes in our work, we come across other companies that have goals that don't move the needle, don't motivate employees, and cause more harm than good. We think this approach does the opposite.

We discuss how we think about goals, creating a great work culture, and how to effectively manage remote workers.

0:00 Intro- Managing by outcomes over outputs
2:07 Example’s in Benji’s career of output style management
3:58 Fear driven management
5:16 Having the right business goals, work backwards
6:07 Devil’s advocate - How would a business determine outcomes that are important?
9:57 Determining outcomes for a role you’re not familiar with
15:08 Mistakes management make and remote management principles
23:17 Grow and Convert’s examples outcomes over outputs
27:13 Outputs have a sneaky way of finding their way into goals
30:49 Goal setting - setting goals that tie to outcomes
36:33 Stop breaking large goals into small details
38:52 Tying examples back to G&C’s business
41:36 Using cloud-based remote tools to help manage people

How We Hire Great Blog Writers (And Mistakes We've Made Along the Way)

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 14:44:20 -0700

In this episode of Grow and Convert Deep Dives, we share our mistakes that we've made when hiring writers and how we've developed a process to solve it.

We go into detail on our process and share things that we've implemented to help us screen writers, test them and train them. We hope you enjoy.

Here are the sections:
0:00 Intro- How to hire blog writers
2:42 Mistakes we made when hiring blog writers
6:38 First big learning hiring writers
9:14 Problem #1: Mismatches in expectations and communication
10:52 Solution #1: Aligning expectations before writing: The questionnaire
15:51 Summarizing our mistakes we made early on hiring writers
17:16 Our writer hiring process
20:59 The test project
24:51 Summarizing learnings of test project
31:11 A question we added to our writing application
33:11 Two filters to help find writing applicants
34:01 How many writers make it through the funnel?
35:32 What are you looking for in the writing application?
38:20 Devesh Rant: Finding good writers is hard
39:27 Bottlenecks that arose in our writing process
40:32 What is the editor looking for in the writing? And coaching…
43:54 Why coaching writers is important
44:49 Don’t build processes too early
46:51 Hiring writers if you’re not a writer
48:08 The profile of a great writer
52:01 Why training writers is important
58:58 Summarizing our writer hiring process

Average Blog Conversion Rates + Can a Blog Post Convert Higher Than a Landing Page?

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 14:17:00 -0700

In Episode 4 of Grow and Convert Deep Dives, we argue against the prevailing wisdom that landing pages convert better than blog posts. We share conversion rate data from two different clients of ours - both a mid-market/enterprise demo based SaaS company and a B2SMB self service SaaS company- and show how we're getting 2%+ average conversion rates on our blog posts and compare those stats to how their sites convert overall from organic.

Then we share data on what we've seen for average blog conversion rates and share what we think a good conversion rate target should be for each individual blog post.

Lastly, we share 3 examples of us outranking landing pages with blog posts and debate why we think landing pages are usually better to go after high intent keywords with-- and how we think they may have higher conversion rates (even if the landing page were to rank higher than our blog post).

This one gets pretty nerdy into the numbers, hope you enjoy it.

Articles mentioned:
https://www.growandconvert.com/conver...
https://geekbot.com/blog/slack-retros... (example 1)
https://scribemedia.com/memoir-ghostw... (example 2)
https://www.tapclicks.com/resources/b... (example 3)

Interested in working with us? Fill out the form below:
https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Sections of our podcast:
0:00 What we’re going to talk about in this video and why
3:53 Blog vs. Site Conversion Data, Client Deep Dive- Mid-Market/Enterprise Demo Based Sales
14:50 Measuring your organic performance relative to the rest of the site
19:55 [Graph] G&C blog posts conversion rates vs. all other organic sources
21:53 Blog vs. organic website conversion data client deep dive example 2- B2SMB, Self Serve
33:46 Landing Page vs. Blog Post Debate / Example 1 (Geekbot) - Self Serve
43:01 Landing Page vs. Blog Posts Debate / Example 2 (Scribe Media) - Service
52:39 Landing page vs. blog post debate / Example 3 (Tapclicks) - Demo Based Product

What Content Should You Produce to Generate Leads? First 3 months of content strategy

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 11:27:06 -0700

In Episode 3 of Grow and Convert Deep Dives, we took a question from Elliott Davidson, where he asked us: "What are your go to posts you know straight out of the gate will help you start lead generation for a new client engagement? Even better if they have no domain rating (DR) for the purposes of this conversation. i.e. founder story backed in with pain points etc." and answered it using 3 different company examples.

In this episode we explained how we would think about forming a blog content strategy in the first few months of a client engagement, specifically what topics we'd go after, what keywords we'd target, and more!

Sections of the episode:

0:00 Intro
4:35 How customer research ties into content strategy
10:05 A High-level overview of our content strategy
11:28 ParcelMaster content strategy
20:07 Quick note about selling in blog posts
23:33 Making SEO content interesting
26:54 What are disruption stories? And how we use them
36:25 Case Study Buddy Content Strategy
48:55 Summarizing the first 3 posts we’d produce for Parcel Master
51:33 Devesh’s “Rant”
54:03 Summarizing Case Study Buddy’s first 3 pieces
55:44 Testbox.com content strategy- rapid-fire

Websites we case studied:
https://parcelmaster.com/
https://casestudybuddy.com/
https://www.testbox.com/

Articles we shared
Rainforest QA disruption story: https://www.rainforestqa.com/blog/acc...

Work with our content marketing agency
https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Take our content marketing course
https://www.growandconvert.com/top-co...

Why A Media Company Content Strategy Doesn't Make Sense for Most Businesses

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 11:23:17 -0700

In Episode 2 of Grow and Convert Deep Dives, Devesh and Benji discuss why they don't believe a media company content strategy makes sense for most businesses. They argue that this strategy makes sense only for certain types of businesses and that there are things you should prioritize doing prior to adopting a strategy like this. They share examples of "media company" content businesses, explain why the strategy is flawed, and share ideas on what you should do instead.

Articles mentioned in this podcast:

Geekbot Case Study:
https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Interested in working with Grow and Convert?
https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Interested in taking our course?
https://www.growandconvert.com/top-co...

Pain Point SEO: What Is It? Examples and How to Get Started

Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 11:17:58 -0700

In the first episode of Grow and Convert Deep Dives, our new series, where we go in-depth on marketing and business topics, we discuss:
- The backstory behind Pain Point SEO
- What Pain Point SEO is (and is not)
- Both B2C and B2B examples of how we've applied it to clients or other companies
- Common Objections that we hear about our process (and our answers to them)
- And how we'd get started

Articles referenced in the video:
- Pain Point SEO: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...
- The Cup and Leaf pain point SEO case study with Nat Eliason: https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...
-How to Create a Keyword Strategy for a New, Innovative Product:
https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...
- How to Do B2B Content Marketing without Domain Expertise (Rainforest Case Study)
https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

The course we referenced in the video:
https://www.growandconvert.com/top-co...

Have us do content marketing for you -- via our agency:
https://www.growandconvert.com/conten...

Tools we referenced:
Clearscope.io
Ahrefs.com