I invite you into my journey of healing, my commitment to simplicity in 2026, and the real reason I keep this podcast free. 

Get Today’s Free Resource:

🎁 I want to give you a free gift. It’s the audio version of my book, All the Scary Little Gods. It’s a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. You can listen to it FREE by going to scarylittlegods.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

If you've been stuck wondering whether he meets the clinical criteria for narcissism or whether therapy could change him, this episode will free you from that trap. Natalie breaks down coercive control—what sociologist Evan Stark calls a "liberty crime"—and why understanding this pattern matters more than any personality disorder diagnosis ever could.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Why sociologist Evan Stark calls coercive control a "liberty crime" (and what that means for you)
• The calculated reason behind those "small" controlling acts that don't seem like abuse
• What happens in your brain when you start to self-police your own thoughts and feelings
• Why England made this a criminal offense in 2015 (and which U.S. states are following)
• The internal checkpoint questions that reveal if you're living in coercive control right now

Get Today’s Free Resource:

🧐 Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage. Get a free chapter by going to isitmebook.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

🎯 Key Takeaways:

• The label that saved your sanity might lose you your case. While identifying narcissistic patterns is vital for your personal healing, using that language in a courtroom often leads judges to label you as "high conflict" rather than a victim of abuse.
   
• Judges don't care about "psychobabble"; they care about concrete behaviors. An armchair diagnosis of NPD carries no weight in family court. To get the court's attention, you must swap labels for facts, like financial lockout, surveillance, and threats.
   
• Calling it a "sickness" can accidentally excuse the harm. If you frame his behavior as a mental illness he "can't help," you invite the court to suggest treatment instead of accountability. In reality, his actions are often calculated, strategic choices, not symptoms of a disordered brain.
   
• There is a more powerful legal framework: Coercive Control. While the court may ignore "narcissism," they are primed to hear about patterns of isolation, degradation, and entrapment. This shift moves the focus from who he is to what he does, which is a language the law is beginning to criminalize.
   
• Deep-diving into his psychology keeps you stuck. Spending years analyzing his "damaged inner self" or "Dark Triad" traits prevents you from the real work of safety planning and documenting the behavior that matters for your future.
   
• You don’t need a diagnosis to justify seeking safety. You cannot heal from a diagnosis; you heal from harm. Stop waiting for professional validation or a formal evaluation that will likely never come, and start tracking the ongoing patterns of intimidation and control. 

Get Today’s Free Resource:

🧐 Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage. Get a free chapter by going to isitmebook.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

🎯 Key Takeaways:

• The diagnosis you're hunting for might be the least of your problems. Even if your partner doesn't meet all nine DSM-5 criteria for NPD, you can still be experiencing serious harm in your relationship.
• Everyone has narcissistic traits, but it's about pattern, pervasiveness, and pathology. The difference between normal self-esteem and a personality disorder comes down to whether the behavior is consistent, shows up everywhere, and causes real damage.
• Not all narcissists look the same. Grandiose narcissists bulldoze you with charm and dominance. Vulnerable narcissists guilt-trip you with sensitivity and victimhood. Both cause devastation.
• You're likely dealing with coercive control, not just a difficult personality. This systematic pattern of isolation, gaslighting, financial control, and micro-regulation is psychological warfare, and it's actually a criminal offense in some countries.
• The label matters less than the behavior. Whether he's a clinical narcissist, has traits from the Dark Triad, or is just plain abusive, what matters is the harm you're experiencing, and you don't need a diagnosis to know it's not okay.
• Stop waiting for him to be diagnosed. Narcissistic traits are "ego-syntonic” which means he sees them as strengths, not problems. He'll never walk into a therapist's office asking for help, which means you can't wait for professional validation to seek safety.

Get Today’s Free Resource:

📒 Take a free Emotional Abuse Assessment by going to emotionalabusequiz.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

🦋 Join me and hundreds of other Christian women for the transformation of your life inside the Flying Free Kaleidoscope! Learn more at joinflyingfree.com

While that term may feel validating at first, Natalie explains how it can actually work against your healing by keeping you locked in the wrong story. 

If you've been Googling “narcissist” at 2 a.m. to make sense of your painful marriage, this episode is for you.

🎯 Key Takeaways:

• Stop giving the abuse a medical label.
   Narcissism is a clinical diagnosis that can distract from the very real pattern of covert oppression you’re living in.

• Start calling it what it is: oppression.
   This isn’t about someone who’s mentally ill or just "struggling." This is about power, control, and silencing your voice.

• Shifting the language helps you shift your mindset.
   When you stop analyzing him and start focusing on your own story, healing becomes possible.

• You're not crazy or overreacting.
   You're likely experiencing strategic emotional abuse often invisible to outsiders but deeply damaging inside your home.

Get Today’s Free Resource:

🧐 Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage. Get a free chapter by going to isitmebook.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

Today, Jillian shares her story of waking up to covert abuse in her Christian marriage and what it took to finally get out.

You'll hear how she recognized the patterns, why she chose to leave despite having a young son, and what life looks like now on the other side. If you've been wondering whether things could actually be different, this conversation will show you what's possible when you start rescuing yourself.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• The warning signs started immediately after marriage: Jillian noticed holiday ruining, rage, silent treatment, and passive aggression within the first year—but spent nine more years trying to fix it.
• The permission trap: When Jillian hired a life coach without asking, her husband threatened consequences and demanded she "ask permission"—revealing his need for control.
• Staying "for the kids" actually harms them: Jillian left because of her son, not despite him, knowing that growing up watching dysfunction would hardwire toxic patterns into his brain.
• Divorce doesn't have to be a war: Jillian's divorce took just three months because she was willing to "buy her freedom" and give him what he wanted (money, custody, reputation).
• Post-divorce transformation is real: Two years out, Jillian has rebuilt her self-trust, started a successful business, and is leveling up emotionally—proof that change isn't just possible, it's exponential.

Get Today’s Free Resource:

📒 Take a free Emotional Abuse Assessment by going to emotionalabusequiz.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

Aimee Says isn't just another AI tool—it's a specialized digital health platform that understands power and control dynamics, helps you document patterns of abuse, organizes your evidence for court, and keeps your data completely private and encrypted. Whether you're trying to understand what's happening in your marriage, preparing for custody battles, or just need someone to help you see the patterns you can't yet name, this tool could change everything.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Privacy matters: Unlike ChatGPT, Aimee Says doesn't use your data to train AI models, and your conversations are encrypted and completely private which is critical when you're dealing with abuse.
• Specialized training: Aimee is educated in power and control dynamics, trauma-informed care, family court systems, and the intersection of faith and abuse. 
• Timeline and documentation: The paid version tracks everything you tell it, creates timelines of abuse, identifies patterns, and organizes evidence in ways that family court judges and attorneys actually want to see.
• Removes the emotion: Aimee takes your raw, emotional experiences and translates them into clean, professional documentation that won't trigger the "allergic reaction" judges have to trauma responses.
• You are the one rescuing you: The women who fare best are those who stop waiting for someone else to save them and use tools like this to take back control of their own stories.

Get Today’s Free Resource:

🧐 Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage. Get a free chapter by going to isitmebook.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

Anne Wintemute is the Co-Founder and CEO of Aimee Says, the AI companion for victims and survivors of domestic violence.  She is a fierce champion for the rights of survivors and children, and systems that hold perpetrators accountable.

Prior to working with survivors, Anne founded and directed an elementary school that became a model for micro-schools across the United States. In her spare time, she enjoys urban homesteading with her partner and their blended family in Denver, Colorado.

Most Christian women stay stuck because nobody tells them the truth: breaking free requires three specific stages. 

In this episode, you'll find out why you keep falling for the "honeymoon phase" trap, what you need to do first before anything else, and why writing everything down literally saves your sanity. This isn't feel-good advice. This is the actual path thousands of women have walked to get out and stay out.

Key Takeaways:

• Stage One is safety. Learn what that looks like.
• The abuse cycle speeds up over time: Tension builds, he explodes, then comes the honeymoon where he's suddenly the man you married. Research shows this cycle gets faster and more violent the longer you stay.
• Write everything down: Keep a detailed abuse log with dates, quotes, and screenshots. This counters his gaslighting and becomes essential evidence down the road.
• You're in the cycle too: When you feel hopeful after his apology, you're caught in the honeymoon trap. Recognizing why you go back to the “hope drug” will be key to your ultimate freedom. 
• Real freedom is peace without dread: It's waking up without calculating how he'll react to your existence. It's making choices without permission. It's living as yourself instead of his idea of who you should be

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE. 

Get Today’s Free Resource:

🎁 I want to give you a free gift. It’s the audio version of my book, All the Scary Little Gods. It’s my own story of getting out after over two decades. You can listen to it FREE by going to scarylittlegods.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

The truth is, emotional and spiritual abuse doesn't just harm you, it rewires your children's brains, damages their attachment systems, and poisons their relationship with God. Research shows that staying in a high-conflict, abusive marriage can be up to 10 times more damaging to children than divorce. And when abuse is wrapped in religious language, the harm multiplies. Your kids aren't just losing safety, they're losing their ability to experience God as loving and trustworthy.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Emotional abuse causes documented brain changes in children: Studies show literal changes in brain development, delays in developmental milestones, and difficulty processing positive feedback.
• Children don't have to be direct targets to be harmed: Simply living in an environment of coercive control, manipulation, and contempt creates lasting damage.
• Spiritual abuse acts as a multiplier: When abuse is justified with God's name or Bible verses, children develop profound guilt, anger at God, and the belief that God is punishing and untrustworthy.
• Divorce isn't the problem - conflict is: Research shows that 80% of children from divorced homes grow up healthy and successful when at least one parent provides safety and stability.
• You can be the protective factor: One safe, emotionally attuned caregiver can change everything. Your healing and presence matter more than a legal document keeping the family "intact."

📌 Relevant Links and Resources:

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE.

🎁 I want to give you a free gift. It’s the audio version of my book, All the Scary Little Gods. It’s a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming that was not only destroying me, but also my children. You can listen to it FREE by going to scarylittlegods.com

I will also send you my weekly Hope Letters for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

In this sixth installment of the Emotional Abuse 101 series, Natalie Hoffman talks about a subtle weapon many Christian men wield in emotionally abusive relationships: criticism. But not the obvious, name-calling type. This is the more insidious, underhanded kind that’s drenched in misogyny and spiritual distortion.

If you've ever wondered why your husband criticizes you, even while appearing like a “good Christian man,” this episode will show you the truth behind the curtain. And it will help you take your power back.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Criticism is not always loud: Subtle criticism such as eye rolls, dismissive sighs, mansplaining, and “just joking” jabs can be more damaging than overt name-calling.
• This weapon is cultural and spiritual: Christian men are often raised to believe that anything “feminine” is weak, emotional, and inferior. This deep-rooted belief forms the foundation of their contempt.
• The misogyny is systemic: From Sunday school to locker rooms, boys are programmed to equate masculinity with power and femininity with weakness.
• The wife becomes the target: Once married, that learned disdain manifests as chronic correction, condescension, and disregard.
• You are not responsible for fixing him: Understanding the root of his behavior doesn’t mean justifying it. You have a right to healing, boundaries, and truth.

📒 Take a free Emotional Abuse Assessment by going to emotionalabusequiz.com

I will also send you my weekly Freedom Notes Newsletter for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages.

📌 Relevant Links and Resources:

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE. 

💡 Join the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community — Get the education and support you need to reclaim your identity and heal.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Emotional abuse doesn’t just affect your mind and body. It wounds your soul.
  Natalie draws a powerful connection between emotional abuse and spiritual damage, especially for Christian women who’ve been taught not to trust themselves.
• When you’re conditioned to distrust your own inner knowing, spiritual confusion sets in. This leads to internal conflict, spiritual isolation, and the inability to differentiate between God's voice and the voice of your abuser.
• The church’s role often compounds the harm. Religious teachings that equate self-trust with rebellion against God cause many women to stay in abusive situations out of fear of divine punishment.
• You were never meant to worship at the altar of someone else’s control. God doesn’t ask you to sacrifice your voice, sanity, or safety. He offers freedom, not bondage.

📚 Natalie Reads from Her Memoir: All the Scary Little Gods

Timestamp 2:00–20:30
Natalie reads Chapter 58: “Bible Counseling”, which recounts two devastating encounters with so-called “biblical counselors.” These counselors weaponized scripture to enforce submission and silence rather than support.

Through deeply personal storytelling, she illustrates how spiritual guidance can become a vehicle for psychological and spiritual gaslighting.

🎁 I want to give you a free gift. It’s the audio version of my book, All the Scary Little Gods. It’s a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. You can listen to it FREE by going to scarylittlegods.com

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE.

🔗 Other Links and Resources Mentioned

• 🧭 Free Resources & Support — Visit flyingfreenow.com
• 📕 Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage — Order on Amazon  https://amzn.to/4o5FCM8
• 💌 Join the Flying Free Kaleidoscope — Visit joinflyingfree.com
  
  

In this episode, Natalie peels back the layers of emotional and spiritual exhaustion that come from being the only emotionally invested person in a relationship. With grace, clarity, and a no-nonsense look at reality, she answers a powerful listener question: “If I’m the only one caring, what’s the point of staying?”

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• One-sided effort isn’t love. If only one person is carrying the weight of emotional and relational labor, it’s not a partnership, it's a survival pattern.
• Control often disguises itself as passivity. Abusers don’t need to yell or hit to maintain power; many use silence, neglect, and apathy to keep you chasing connection.
• Spiritual bypassing keeps women trapped. Many Christian women are taught that leaving a cold or neglectful husband is rebellion against God. But that’s not what the Bible says, and it’s not what Jesus models.
• You can stop asking for crumbs. It’s okay to stop showing up for someone who consistently chooses not to show up for you.
• God isn’t asking you to abandon yourself. He's not honored by marriages that demand your silence, your sanity, or your soul. He's inviting you to freedom, not bondage.

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE. 

Get a free chapter of Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse by going to isitmebook.com

Episode quotes:

“If you’re the only one working on the relationship, you’re not in a relationship. You’re in a slow death sentence, and it’s okay to want to live.”

“Control isn’t always loud. Sometimes it’s a stone wall you beat your heart against, hoping it’ll soften.”

“You don’t need your partner to validate your pain for it to be real. It already is.”

“God doesn’t ask you to sacrifice your soul to prove your commitment.”

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Healthy marriages = clarity, respect, and growth
• Abusive marriages = confusion, control, and punishment
• If you're constantly walking on eggshells, it's not normal. 
• God never asked you to sacrifice your soul on the altar of someone else's entitlement.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE.

Related Resources:

• Check out the first two parts of this eight-part series: “The 10 Most Subtle Signs of Emotional Abuse in a Christian Marriage” and “The Art of Saying No: Setting Boundaries When You've Been Trained to Say Yes.” 

I also made an 8-minute video tour of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope on my phone. It will show you what the INSIDE of the Kaleidoscope looks like here at the end of 2025 and going into 2026. You can watch that on YouTube HERE.

The price is going up on January 1, 2026, and I'd love to see you get in on the lower price if you can. Prices never go up for current members, so lock yourself in on the price we've had for five years while you've got the chance because it will never be this low again.

(Currently $29/month or $290 for an entire year - but going up to $39/mo or $390/year starting January 1.)

Learn more and complete your application HERE. 

This episode is Part 2 of our Emotional Abuse 101 series, and today we’re diving into the art of saying no.

If the idea of saying no makes your stomach flip or sends you into a guilt spiral, this episode is your lifeline. I’ll walk you through WHY it’s so hard to say no and HOW to start saying it anyway with confidence and without apology.

Key Takeaways:

• Saying no without guilt is an adult skill, not a rebellious sin. 
• People-pleasing is often a trauma response. Your nervous system isn’t broken. It’s just been doing its job a little too well.
• You don’t need permission to have boundaries. You’re not waiting for anyone’s approval. 
• Boundaries ≠ controlling others. Boundaries = choosing how YOU respond when others misbehave.
• There’s neuroscience behind this. Your brain can be rewired to feel safe even when saying no. 

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Get a FREE chapter of Is It ME? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, along with the companion workbook for that chapter, by going to flyingfreenow.com. I'll also send you the Freedom Letters. (Also free. 😉 )

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE. 

In this episode, I’m diving into the 10 most subtle signs of emotional abuse, the kind of signs that don’t leave bruises on your body but do leave bruises on your soul. These are the red flags that fly under the radar, the ones that make you ask “Am I too sensitive?” or “Maybe I am the problem?”

Here are some things we’ll cover in this episode:

• The Silent Treatment Special — Why emotional withholding isn't just immature behavior, and the real reason he's using it against you
• Mr. Jekyll and Pastor Hyde — What happens when everyone else thinks he's amazing, but you're living with someone completely different at home
• Strategic Emotional Sabotage — The shocking pattern behind why your birthdays, holidays, and girls' nights keep getting ruined 
• Weaponized Vulnerability — How opening your heart becomes ammunition in his hands, and why you're not crazy for feeling betrayed
• Dream Crusher Lite™ — The subtle way he makes pursuing your goals absolutely miserable without ever saying "no" outright
• Plausible Deniability — Why you're always "too sensitive" or "making assumptions," and how this phrase is actually a manipulation tactic

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Take a FREE emotional abuse quiz by going to emotionalabusequiz.com. Find out if what you're experiencing is normal Christian marriage stuff...or abuse.

🎙️ Watch the rest of this Emotional Abuse 101 series (as it comes out) HERE.

Related Resources:

• Was this episode helpful? You may find these two Flying Free episodes equally worthwhile: “Does an Abuser Know They Are Abusive?” and “Nine Tricks Emotional Abuser Use to Pull Us Back Into the Cycle (and six clever ways to respond!)”

This one’s especially for you if you’ve ever stayed in an abusive marriage because you thought God would be mad if you left. If you’re exhausted from trying to please “godly” authority figures who think they are mini Popes. If you’ve prayed the salvation prayer 73 times just to be sure it “took.”

Key Takeaways:

• Belief isn’t a checklist. It’s not about doing the right things, following the right leaders, or avoiding the wrong music. It’s about trusting that Christ already did it all.
• The gift of salvation is already yours. Yes, even if you cuss, leave your abuser, or buy non-organic lettuce.
• Many Christians are still hoping for a salvation that is already theirs. Why? Because we’ve been taught to fear God more than we trust Him. 
• The verse “God hates divorce” has been weaponized. (Psst…it doesn’t say what you think it does, anyway. Listen to find out what the Bible actually says in Malachi.)
• You can experience the joy of salvation the moment you believe it’s real. Like full-body joy. (Really!)

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Listen to my book, All the Scary Little Gods, FREE by going to scarylittlegods.com.

Related Resources:

• If this episode was helpful for you, you’ll love these two episodes, too: “Two Hotel Rooms: One Rescue Mission” and “Praying for a Miracle — When the Miracle Might Be You Walking Away.”

I sat down with Gwendoline, a longtime member of Flying Free and Flying Higher, to talk about her epic butterfly transformation. We're talking cycles of chaos, religious gaslighting, and the sneaky little acronym that kept her trapped in marital misery: FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).

Key Takeaways:

• If it feels off, it probably is – Chaos, fights, and emotional whiplash aren’t just "normal marriage stuff." They're red flags.
• Your body knows before your brain does – Tight hips, tension, and dread? Not random. That’s trauma.
• Love isn’t a magical fix-all – You can love someone and still need to leave them. 
• Track the truth – Emoji mood calendars and journaling helped Gwendoline see the pattern she was gaslit into ignoring.
• You are the rescuer – No knight in shining armor is coming. Just you, your big-girl panties, and God on a divine co-rescue mission.
• Leaving is hard, but worth it – Healing takes time, but the moment you step out, your real life begins.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Get a FREE chapter of Is It ME? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, along with the companion workbook for that chapter, by going to flyingfreenow.com. I'll also send you the Freedom Letters. (Also free. 😉 )

Related Resources:

• Want to listen to more survivor stories? Check out “Military Marriage Abuse: Elizabeth’s Story” and “Out of the Poisoned Pond: Jennie’s Story.”

In this episode, I dive deep into the real reasons why some lives transform after abuse while others continue to feel stuck.

We’re unpacking:

• Why healing is not about labeling your abuser a narcissist and calling it a day 
• How to know when you’re ready to move from survivor to thriver.
• What your philosophy of life has to do with your emotional garden.
• Why reading one more Instagram post about toxic people isn’t going to transform your life.
• And how your anger might just be the spark that gets you out of the cage.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Listen to my book, All the Scary Little Gods, for FREE!
• Liked this episode? Then check out these two other Flying Free episodes, “An Emotional Recovery Tool That Changes Everything” and “How Pretending and Fear Keep You Stuck in Abuse Cycles.”

This week, I’m joined by Katherine Spearing, founder of Tears of Eden, trauma recovery practitioner, and author of a new book, A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts. 

If you’ve ever been told that “God doesn’t want your happiness, He wants your holiness” while you were slowly disintegrating inside, well, friend, you’re in for a ride. Buckle up, because we’re talking:

• Why spiritual abuse is often so subtle you won’t realize you’re bleeding out until you’re halfway through a panic attack
• How high-control religious environments get you to abuse yourself (sick, right?)
• The toxic theology that turns God into a cranky toddler with a lightning bolt

Key Takeaways:

• Spiritual abuse is real, complex, and often normalized. Just because it’s subtle doesn’t mean it’s not wrecking your soul.
• You’re not wrong for wanting peace, freedom, and autonomy. That’s not “selfish.” That’s survival.
• Religious trauma isn’t just in your head. It’s in your nervous system, and it needs gentle care to heal.
• You get to get your mail from God. Not from your pastor, your husband, or some elder board in polyester pants.
• Patriarchy is the backbone of most spiritual abuse. If your theology only benefits dudes, it’s not the gospel, it’s a con.
• There’s a whole beach of freedom outside that toxic church sandbox. And God’s not mad you left.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Grab a copy of Katherine’s book, A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts
• Connect with Katherine on Instagram
• Hop on Katherine’s mailing list and get some free resources while you’re on her site. 

Katherine Spearing MA, CTRC is the founder of Tears of Eden, a nonprofit supporting survivors of spiritual abuse, and the former executive producer and host of the groundbreaking podcast Uncertain, a podcast that pioneered pivotal conversations around spiritual abuse. She also is a Certified Trauma Recovery Practitioner working primarily with clients who have survived cults, high-control environments, spiritual abuse, and sexual abuse. Katherine is a huge advocate for the power of art to help us on our healing journey. She participates in improv theater both as a performer and coach and is the author of one novel. A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts, her new book on spiritual abuse, addresses the survivor’s recovery journey. She has been a guest on a number of podcasts, including IndoctriNation and A Little Bit Culty, is the author of several nonfiction articles, and writes regularly at katherinespearing.com and tearsofeden.org.

In this episode, I hand you a step-by-step strategy to shut down the inner emotional chaos without getting dragged into the mud pit with him. It's not just about survival. It's about winning (for YOU!)

What We Cover in This Episode: 

• What to do when your abuser won’t stop texting lies, and the courts won’t let you block him
• How to stop reacting and start playing offense with your own sanity-protecting strategy
• Why your emotional reaction is his favorite snack (and how to starve that monster)
• The magic of radical acceptance. No, he’s not going to wake up one day and be Prince Charming
• Why sarcasm is satisfying but not strategic (sorry, my fellow sass queens)
• A game-plan that builds a rock-solid paper trail, perfect for court receipts and your peace of mind
• How to rewire your nervous system before you even read his garbage texts

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Check out Aimee Says for help wading through the word salad your abuser is throwing at you. 
• Listen to some other Flying Free episodes, including “Winning Child Custody & Divorce Battles” and “How to Respond to Emotional Abuse Tactics.” 

This week, I sat down with Dr. Christine Cocchiola, a powerhouse expert on coercive control, the kind of abuse that doesn’t leave bruises but instead, destroys lives. Christine breaks down how abusers don't need fists to dominate; they weaponize EVERYTHING from the court system, to churches, to your very own kids.

If you’ve ever been dismissed, disbelieved, or labeled “too angry,” this episode is a masterclass in seeing the invisible, calling it what it is, and taking your power back, even if you have to fake it ‘til you make it from the ICU of your life.

What You’ll Learn: 

• Why coercive control isn’t a form of abuse, it IS abuse. Period. Full stop.
• How abusers hide behind charisma, charm, and a well-timed Bible verse.
• The horrifying way the legal system often rewards abusers and punishes protective moms.
• How abuse affects children, even when it’s subtle, and especially when it’s court-sanctioned.
• Why your anger is holy fire, not a character defect.
• How to start healing and parenting differently, even while walking through hell with a diaper bag.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Check out Dr. Christine Cocchiola’s website.
• Connect with her on Instagram and Facebook.  
• Read FRAMED: Women in the Family Court Underworld, Dr. Cocchiola’s co-authored book. 
• Get her free map called Clinical Implications for Children Who Are Coercively Controlled
• Watch her recent TED Talk: It’s All Coercive Control

Christine M. Cocchiola, DSW, LCSW is an expert on the experiences of adult and child victims of coercive control. A college professor teaching social work, she received her doctorate in clinical social work from New York University working under the tutelage of Dr. Evan Stark. She presents nationally and internationally on the concept of coercive control with a focus on educating professionals, advocates, and protective parents, on the experiences of children and best intervention strategies for adult and child victims of coercive control/narcissistic abuse. Her Clinician Certification Training is ASWB approved for 14 CE’s. Dr. C is the creator of The Protective Parenting Program, a therapeutic evidence based attachment focused program for parents of children harmed by abusers and the co-author of FRAMED: Women in the Family Court Underworld.

You’ll meet Sarah, a fictional but oh-so-familiar woman who stands at the edge of a running trail, paralyzed by invisible weights. Enter Elena, the wise older woman who helps her go full Marie Kondo on her belief system. You’ll want to tattoo some of Elena’s one-liners on your forearm. (Okay maybe just put them on sticky notes.)

Key Takeaways:

• Toxic beliefs often come wrapped in spiritual language. Just because it came from a pulpit or your well-meaning Aunt Kathy doesn’t make it true or helpful.
• You’re allowed to question what you’ve been taught. Especially if what you’ve been taught keeps you silent, stuck, or scared.
• Jesus didn’t ask you to carry a crushing load. He said His yoke is easy. Your religious trauma backpack is not that.
• Replacing lies with truth doesn’t mean you’re sinning. It means you’re healing.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Here are some other related Flying Free Podcast episodes: “12 Life-Changing Beliefs That Will Unhook You From Abuse” and “The Beliefs that Keep Christian Women Stuck in Abusive Marriages.” 

This isn’t just another chirpy motivational talk. It’s a truth-telling, cage-rattling invitation to examine the lies we’ve been fed about safety, love, and obedience, especially in the name of God. You were made to fly, not decorate someone else’s spiritual furniture.

Key Takeaways:

• The cage was never locked. You've been conditioned to think you're choosing it, but that choice was built on fear, not freedom.
• That “protection” they sold you? It's control in disguise. And the house full of golden cages? It’s not a sanctuary. It's a system designed to keep you small, scared, and obedient.
• Even your longing has been demonized. Longing is labeled sin. Discontent? A character flaw. But maybe it’s your soul whispering, “There’s more.”
• Freedom is risky, but it’s real. There are storms and hawks and hard days out there. But there’s also wind, sky, stars, and the exhilaration of living unchained.
• Jesus doesn’t lock cages. He flings those suckers open and says, “Come on out, sister. It’s time.”

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• If today’s episode resonated with you, here are some others you may find helpful: “From Trapped to Free in 30 Days” and “Praying for a Miracle—When the Miracle Might Be You Walking Away.”

This one's for the Christian woman who’s been there, twisting herself into a holy pretzel trying to keep the peace, hold the family together, and love like Jesus while getting emotionally sucker-punched by someone who claims to love her. 

What We Cover: 

• The nine mind-warping tactics emotional abusers use to keep you locked in their circus of dysfunction.
• Why your loving heart (and need for connection) makes you the perfect target, and why that’s not a flaw.
• The six empowering, grown-up strategies to unhook yourself from their drama without turning into a fire-breathing dragon.
• Why explanations are overrated, and how less really is more (especially when you're dealing with a manipulative guilt ninja).
• How to set boundaries like a boss while still loving people, but from a safe distance.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Liked this episode? Here are some others you might want to check out: “Your Marriage Abuse Cycle Exercise” and “How to Respond to Emotional Abuse Tactics.”

Christian counselor, Kris Reece, is back on the show for part two of our convo about the toxic mind games that keep Christian women stuck, particularly when Jesus is used as the emotional ball-and-chain.

Together, we unravel gaslighting, guilt, spiritual manipulation, emotional immaturity, and why you’re not selfish or sinful for walking away from garbage disguised as godliness.

Key Takeaways:

• Label-Schmabel: Stop obsessing over whether he's a narcissist or just "difficult." The real question is: does he take responsibility or make excuses? That’s your answer.
• Jesus Isn’t Your Abuser’s Alibi: Jesus didn’t die so you could stay trapped in a soul-sucking relationship. 
• Guilt is a Control Tool: Toxic people weaponize your good-girl guilt to keep you stuck. 
• Change the Dance: You can’t make him change. But you can change the steps you’re taking, and that alone can shift the entire dynamic. 
• You’re Not Powerless: If everything hinges on him, you’re trapped. Shift the focus back to YOU: your choices, your growth, your freedom.
• Truth Bomb: It’s Not Your Fault: You’re not responsible for his tantrums, beliefs, or abuse. You are responsible for how you respond and whether you keep playing along.
• Rebuilding Takes Time: Gaslighting screws with your reality. Healing comes as you reconnect with truth, reclaim your identity, and learn to giggle (a little) when grown men act like kindergartners.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Listen to Part One of my interview with Kris.
• Grab a copy of Kris’ new book, Breaking the Narcissist’s Grip.
• Get her FREE Narcissist Survival Guide. 
• Check out her YouTube channel.
• Connect with Kris on Instagram and Facebook.

Kris Reece is a Christian counselor, author, and speaker who helps believers break free from toxic relationships and codependency biblically and practically. With over 30 years of combined personal and professional experience, Kris has guided thousands through the emotional wreckage left by narcissistic and manipulative relationships. She blends deep biblical truth with real-world strategies to help others reclaim their identity, rebuild confidence, and walk in the freedom Christ offers. Kris is the author of Breaking the Narcissist’s Grip and host of a fast-growing YouTube channel where she equips Christians to set boundaries, overcome manipulation, break trauma bonds, and heal after toxic relationships.

In this episode, I sit down with Christian counselor and author Kris Reese (yes, the YouTube powerhouse with over 476,000 subscribers) to dismantle the toxic myths that keep Christian women chained to destructive relationships.

Together, we talk about:

• The big guilt trip – Why Christians confuse “honor” with “obey” and how that keeps grown women stuck in parent-child dynamics with their 70-year-old mothers.
• The covenant conundrum – What makes walking away from a spouse more complicated, and why wisdom (not religious rule-keeping) is the real key.
• The fog machine – Fear, obligation, and guilt: the trifecta abusers use to keep you running in circles like a hamster who just discovered Peloton.
• Boundaries ≠ lack of forgiveness – FACTS: You can forgive your mom and still not show up to her guilt-drenched Sunday dinners. You can forgive your husband and still not share a bed with him while he weaponizes scripture against you.
• Manipulation tactics 101 – Victimhood and scripture-twisting are the go-to moves of toxic moms and spouses everywhere. (“You’re not being a good daughter/wife” translates to: “My control over you is slipping and I hate it.”)
• Trauma bonds and porcupines – Why you might be clinging to the emotional equivalent of a barbed-wire teddy bear, and how to finally put it down without losing your sanity.
• Why Christians stay too long – It’s not because they’re lazy or selfish. It’s because they’ve been conditioned to confuse holiness with masochism.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Grab a copy of Kris’ new book, Breaking the Narcissist’s Grip.
• Get her FREE Narcissist Survival Guide. 
• Check out her YouTube channel.
• Connect with Kris on Instagram and Facebook.

Kris Reece is a Christian counselor, author, and speaker who helps believers break free from toxic relationships and codependency biblically and practically. With over 30 years of combined personal and professional experience, Kris has guided thousands through the emotional wreckage left by narcissistic and manipulative relationships. She blends deep biblical truth with real-world strategies to help others reclaim their identity, rebuild confidence, and walk in the freedom Christ offers. Kris is the author of Breaking the Narcissist’s Grip and host of a fast-growing YouTube channel where she equips Christians to set boundaries, overcome manipulation, break trauma bonds, and heal after toxic relationships.

Instead, I stumbled my way out of despair and into freedom thanks to a stack of books, a laptop, and eventually, the real God (not the mean knock-off version I had been worshiping).

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The two hotel rooms that changed everything: one where I nearly gave up, and one where I finally woke up.
• How books became my lifelines (thank you, Google rabbit holes).
• The moment I realized the “god” I was serving looked suspiciously like my abusive husband. 
• Why leaving my marriage also meant leaving behind a toxic image of God.
• What it really means to be a butterfly (It’s not about fluttering around in a meadow. It’s about fierce, unapologetic freedom).

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Who’s Pushing Your Buttons
• Foolproofing Your Life
• Check out a related Flying Free Podcast episode, “We Are Like the God We Worship,” and then check out my comprehensive list of the best books for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. 

If you’ve ever wondered, “Is it me? Or is this whole thing just completely bonkers?” then pull up a chair. Jennie’s journey from silent suffering to empowered freedom will resonate with every woman who’s ever been told to “submit more, pray harder, and wear longer skirts” while her husband runs wild and gets a pat on the back from church elders.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode: 

• How a “perfect Christian marriage” turned into decades of betrayal and control.
• The role toxic church teachings played in keeping Jennie (and her kids) trapped.
• Why standing up for her daughter was the unexpected turning point that led Jennie toward freedom.
• The difference between swimming in poisoned pond water and finally breathing fresh air.
• How Flying Free gave Jennie the tools, words, and community she needed to rewire her brain and rebuild her life.
• The power of “just the next step” (because I hate to break it to you, but God doesn’t hand out the whole escape plan on a silver platter).

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Some other survivor stories to give you hope: “Military Marriage Abuse: Elizabeth’s Story,” and “Escaping the Man Everyone Admired: Lisa’s Story.”

In this episode of Flying Free, I dive into the “Let Go, Accept, and Love” tool (a.k.a. LAL, because who doesn’t love an acronym?). Plus, you’ll hear how one brave mama used these steps in the middle of a soul-crushing custody battle, and she came out stronger, freer, and a whole lot wiser.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode: 

• Why believing the actual good news (and not the toxic “dirty worm theology”) matters more than you think.
• The three steps of the LAL tool
• How one Flying Free member used LAL to survive a painful separation from her child with compassion instead of despair.
• The messy, real-life lessons another member learned during her custody evaluation, and why showing humility beats trying to look like “Super Perfect Christian Mom.”
• Practical ways to prepare for divorce and custody evaluations without losing your sanity.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Check out the Divorced Christian Woman Podcast, my newest podcast specifically for divorced women rebuilding their lives.
• The Mirror Bible is a refreshing Bible translation I highly recommend. 
• Go follow Gretchen Baskerville’s YouTube channel. Also check out a recent interview I did with her, “Do Marriage Intensives Help to Heal Abusive Marriages?”
• Need a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA)? Rhonda Noordyk will help you with financial clarity and advocacy in divorce.

In this episode, I dive deep into an exercise that one of our Flying Free members shared in the private forum. She mapped out her relationship’s specific abuse cycle, and what she discovered was pretty important.

Nothing changes when nothing changes. Oof. That one landed.

What you’ll learn:

• The Three Phases of the Abuse Cycle
• What HE Does vs. What YOU Do in each phase, and why it’s crucial to spell it out.
• How this member's personalized cycle became her key to awareness, and eventually, empowerment.
• The Denial Trap: Why “love doesn’t keep a record of wrongs” is not a permission slip to forget he’s hurting you.
• The radical difference between surviving the cycle and disrupting it with intentional action.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Check out some other related Flying Free Podcast episodes: “Interrupting the Abuse Cycle” and “How to Change Yourself While Still Stuck in an Emotionally Abusive Marriage.”

In today’s episode, I sit down with Maile, a bright spark in our Flying Free community, who thought she’d landed in God’s will when she married her second husband. Instead, she found herself suffocating under spiritual gaslighting, emotional sabotage, and escalating violence, all hidden behind the shiny veneer of “good Christian marriage.”

This is a real story of what it looks like to wake up, break free, and rebuild your life, even when you’ve already done the divorce thing once before, and the church ladies are clutching their pearls at you for round two.

In this episode:

• The red flags Maile ignored during dating (love bombing, control, snooping)
• How spiritual abuse kept her stuck under the “good Christian wife” lie
• Why COVID became the unexpected wake-up call she needed
• How she found the courage to leave, even after already being divorced once
• What freedom and faith look like on the other side of abuse

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Book mentioned: The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk.
• Some other survivor stories: Shelley’s story and Stacie’s story.

Or maybe you’ve thought about getting out, but your instincts all tell you that you’ll lose everyone you love in the process?

In this episode, I answer two listener-submitted questions that go straight to the heart of what so many Christian women wrestle with post-abuse: rejection from family, exclusion in church, and the confusion that comes with trying to be a decent human in the aftermath of emotional trauma.

We talk:

• The underbelly of emotional immaturity
• Spiritual bypassing in religious circles
• What “grace” actually looks like (hint: it’s not begging for scraps)
• And why your healing is not up for debate

This one’s for every woman who’s been ghosted by her family or made to feel like a spiritual pariah in the church lobby.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Get a free chapter of my book, “Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage” and companion workbook when you hop on my mailing list. 
• Listen to some related Flying Free Podcast episodes, including “Why Being Rejected by Your Church and Family Hurts So Bad” and “When You’ve Been Hurt by Church.”

I talk with Amy Polacko, a woman who’s been through it, wrote a book about it, and now helps other women survive it. We cover everything from strategic silence and choosing the right attorney, to the "he’s such a good guy" nonsense that courts just eat up.

Here’s the low-down: You could be framed. Literally. Not metaphorically. Actually framed. So let’s talk about how to not let that happen.

Key Takeaways: 

• You must be the CEO of your divorce. Do not—I repeat, do NOT—hand the wheel to someone else and hope for the best.
• The justice system isn’t always just. Especially if you're a woman who dares to leave an abuser.
• Document everything and hire smart. Get a coach before you get an attorney. Better yet, get Amy. 
• Abusers have a playbook. And Amy knows what’s on every page.
• Your “Christian” husband might still screw you over. Faith language doesn’t mean he’s safe. It might just mean he’s scarier.
• Kids grow up. Even if you lose custody, there’s hope. Connection isn't court-mandated, it’s soul-deep. We’ll talk about what to do if the unthinkable happens.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Check out Amy’s website and get some one-on-one coaching with her.
• Get Amy’s FREE resource, 10 Divorce Mistakes You Can’t Afford to Make. 
• Get the Proactive Playbook for Divorce or take her course, Divorce Decoded.
• Read her co-authored book, Framed: Women in the Family Court Underworld.
• Connect with Amy on Instagram. 
• Go listen to some related Flying Free Podcast episodes, including “Winning Child Custody & Divorce Battles” and “How to Be the Parent Your Child Needs During Divorce.” 
• And of course, consider joining the Flying Free Kaleidoscope where we make education and support for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages (or making their exit) affordable and life-changing. (Plus Amy is one of our resident coaches!)

Amy is a divorce coach and an award-winning journalist who is a domestic abuse survivor. Through her Freedom Warrior coaching business, she has guided hundreds of women out of toxic relationships and empowers women to be the CEO of their divorce. She is a former full-time investigative reporter on television. Amy’s work has been featured in HuffPost, The Washington Post, Newsweek, NBC News, The Independent, New York Observer and Ms. She co-authored the groundbreaking book FRAMED: Women in the Family Court Underworld with Dr. Christine Cocchiola which exposes the gender bias crisis in our justice system

In this episode, I pull back the curtain on my own bathroom-floor prayer sob sessions (complete with cold tile and mascara rivers) and challenge the dangerous theology that says staying in abusive marriages = holy martyrdom. 

If you’ve been stuck in a cycle of “pray harder, suffer longer,” it’s time to consider that the still, small voice urging you to get out might actually be God.

Key Takeaways:

• You might be the miracle. Sometimes, walking away is the divine answer.
• God doesn’t endorse abuse. Staying to suffer isn’t a spiritual badge of honor.
• Faith isn’t a formula. Praying harder won’t fix what someone refuses to change.
• Waiting on God means moving. Biblical waiting sometimes involves action, not passive endurance.
• Peace is holy. A quiet, safe life isn’t boring—it’s blessed. 
• Leaving can be faith-filled. Seeking safety is aligning with God's heart, not betraying Him.
• You’re already worthy. Your value isn’t tied to enduring mistreatment.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

If you liked today’s episode, you may relate to some of my others, including “What Are the Biblical Grounds for Divorce?” and “How Can You Tell if Your Abusive Partner Has Changed?” 

Key Takeaways:

• Abuse in Uniform: Elizabeth shares how military culture and constant relocation masked the escalating abuse in her marriage.
• Gaslight Central: Her husband weaponized patriotism, shifting blame and memory-wiping every argument like a bad magician.
• Mother of All Burnouts: From managing everything—including his moods—to finally realizing she wasn’t the crazy one, Elizabeth walks us through her awakening.
• Mini Steps, Mega Impact: Discover how moving into a different bedroom and refusing to play the smiling spouse at a promotion ceremony were small, powerful boundaries.
• From Silence to Sisterhood: Elizabeth’s healing journey took off with Flying Free, and she’s now part of our “veteran” squad of badass women who got out, stayed out, and grew like weeds in springtime.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Listen to some of our other recent survivor stories, including Lisa’s story and Erin’s story. 

I’ve lived this. I breathed this for 25 years. I know exactly what it feels like to see the abuse for what it is, feel a spark of righteous anger… only to have it snuffed out by a fake tear, a Bible verse, or a bouquet of “I didn’t mean it that way” flowers. Before you know it, you’re back to feeling like the monster for having feelings in the first place.

So I’m calling it out. We’re unpacking why this happens, how it messes with your brain, and what you can do to flip the script and start feeling sorry for the person who truly deserves your compassion: you.

What I Want You to Walk Away With: 

• You’re not crazy. You’re chemically trauma bonded. And yes, that’s a thing.
• Your compassion is beautiful, but when it’s misdirected at your abuser, it becomes a prison.
• The church has taught us to tolerate abuse in the name of Jesus—and honestly, Jesus would’ve flipped a table over that.
• Grief isn’t the enemy. Denial is. Grief is the beginning of healing.
• You can feel sorry for yourself. You should. That’s what healing starts with.
• You don’t need to be brave enough for the whole mountain—just the next step.
• You are the one who’s going to rescue you. (No prince required.)

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Liked this episode? Then you’ll like two of my other Flying Free Podcast episodes, “How Can You Tell if Your Abusive Partner Has Changed?” and “Why You Can’t Stop Thinking About Your Abuser - and When That Changes.”

In this episode, I get real about complementarianism, the nice-sounding theology that quietly hijacked our self-worth, autonomy, and sanity. I share how I was the poster child for it once (hello, Created to Be His Help Meet), and how that life script nearly destroyed my soul.

I’m unpacking the research, the psychology, the theology, and yes, the “are you kidding me right now?” stories from real women who’ve lived this. It's systemic. And it's deeply damaging.

What You’ll Learn: 

• How complementarianism teaches learned helplessness (like, literal textbook psychology)
• That a shocking number of women from these teachings suffer from anxiety, decision fatigue, and depression but think it’s a faith issue, not a mental health one
• Why your pastor’s advice to “submit harder” is about as helpful as telling someone with a broken leg to “walk it off with a godly attitude”
• That yes, the research confirms it: biblical womanhood theology messes with your brain
• How to tell the difference between “conviction” and religious trauma

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Head to our website to find ALL the resources I packed into today’s episode.
• Check out some related Flying Free resources, including an article I wrote called “How Complementarianism Causes Abuse in Churches and Homes” and an episode called “Do Gender Roles Contribute to Emotional Abuse in the Home and Church?”

(Please note: this episode is for Christian women considering a more permanent end to their relationship. If that's not you, give this one a pass for today!)

I know how hard it is to navigate these decisions, especially when your faith, your safety, and your identity are all tangled together. I’ve lived it. I’ve wrestled with it. And I’ve coached hundreds of women through it.

So I’m walking you through the differences between legal separation and divorce from a biblical, emotional, financial, and psychological perspective without shame, fear tactics, or pressure. Just clarity, truth, and love.

What You’ll Learn: 

• What legal separation really involves (hint: it’s not just sleeping in separate rooms)
• The truth behind “God hates divorce” and what Scripture actually says
• How legal separation can keep you stuck emotionally and financially
• Why divorce might be the healthiest choice for you and your children
• What your church may be getting wrong—and how to respond with courage and grace
• My own story of choosing divorce and what changed in my life after

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here 

Related Resources:

• Get a free, practical guide to legal separation and divorce that will help you decide what is best for you.
• Some more Flying Free Podcast episodes on divorce and separation: “How Do I Know if Divorce Is the Right Choice for Me?” “Will God Punish Me if I Get a Divorce?” “During Separation, How Do I Deal With an Overwhelming Workload and No Support?”

Through the annual Flying Free satisfaction survey, listeners hear dozens of honest, heart-wrenching, and ultimately hopeful testimonies of what healing looks like when women dare to believe they deserve better.

Key Takeaways:

• You are not the problem. Many women enter Flying Free believing they’re broken. The truth? They’re trapped in harmful belief systems—not failures.
• Healing is possible. Even women who felt suicidal or hopeless now describe themselves as joyful, empowered, and free.
• You don’t have to do it alone. Community and coaching are a lifeline. The kaleidoscope of women in Flying Free offers safety, connection, and understanding.
• Transformation isn’t a miracle—it’s a process. One decision at a time, one new belief at a time, one boundary at a time. And it works.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here 

Related Resources:

• Want to learn more about a tool we use inside the program all the time that literally changes lives? Check out Episode 160 of the Flying Free Podcast. 

In this gripping episode, I sit down with Lisa: a strong, truth-telling woman who walked through 40 years of emotional and spiritual abuse in her marriage. From the trauma of date rape on her first date, to the covert spiritual manipulation in a seemingly “perfect” Christian home, Lisa vulnerably shares how she survived, how she healed, and how she’s now helping other women rise.

This episode is not just a story. It’s a reclamation.

Key Takeaways: 

• “You’re not crazy—he just told you that you were.” Lisa unpacks the slow unraveling of decades of covert abuse masked as devotion.
• How Christian culture kept her trapped in a narrative of self-blame, silence, and “submission.”
• The pivotal role of trauma-informed therapy, especially EMDR, in unlocking the truth and breaking the trauma bond.
• Lisa’s experience with betrayal by Christian counselors and the devastating weaponization of Scripture.
• Why she now calls it an escape—not a divorce.
• The healing power of boundaries, honest storytelling, and godly anger.
• What real love looks like after abuse—and yes, it can come at 66.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here 

Related Resources:

• Want to listen to some more survivor stories? Check out Erin’s story and Marie’s story. 

This isn't about cartoon villains or obvious monsters. I'm talking about the kind of evil that sits in church pews, leads Bible studies, and goes home to emotionally destroy their families while maintaining a pristine public image.

Have you ever felt crazy for questioning someone's "godly" behavior when it leaves you feeling diminished and confused? You're not alone, and you're not imagining things. In this episode, I break down the subtle patterns of evil that hide behind masks of righteousness, especially in Christian contexts.

In this powerful episode, you'll discover:

• Why the most dangerous form of evil isn't loud or obvious, but subtle, polite, and often dressed in religious language and "concern" for your spiritual wellbeing

• How to recognize scapegoating—the psychological process where someone transfers their shame onto you, making you carry the emotional burden for the entire relationship

• The chilling reality of how evil people use virtue and spiritual leadership as masks to hide their true nature, and why religious communities often protect the abuser rather than the abused

• Practical ways to trust your own perceptions again after years of having your reality denied and twisted

If you've ever been told you're overreacting, too sensitive, or not spiritual enough when trying to address harmful behavior, this episode will validate your experience and give you the language to understand what you've been through.

The journey toward freedom begins with recognizing the lies for what they are. Join me as we unpack this transformative book and discover how naming evil is the first step toward reclaiming your life and your truth.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here 

Related Resources: 

• Grab your copy of M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie
• Want to check out some other books I recommend? I have a whole laundry list. 

This episode was originally a private workshop inside the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, and now it's yours, too. You're welcome. (And also, if you want more, jump in with us!)

Key Takeaways:

• How to get out when you're financially trapped
• What temporary orders are and how they can help you immediately
• Why documentation beats opinions in court, and how to gather it smartly
• Secrets to dealing with exes who refuse to work or disclose income
• How to present strong evidence without being overwhelmed
• Legal options for supervised visitation and protecting your children
• Modifying custody when major life changes occur
• Protecting kids from subtle forms of abuse within court limitations
• How to handle mediators and avoid coerced agreements
• Sanctioning your ex for using the legal system abusively
• The emotional encouragement you need when you feel too overwhelmed to fight back

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Wendy’s YouTube channel: Command the Courtroom
• Her “Best Interests of the Child” checklist
• The “Is Love Resilience” worksheet (traits that resilient women develop to rebuild their lives)
• The “Know Your Rights – Protect. Prepare. Empower. Escape” worksheet
• Our Day’s co-parenting calendar app
• Aimee Says, an AI app to help you craft response, document abuse, prepare for court, and more 
• Flying Free Podcast Episode 220 with Wendy: Dealing with Fear During Divorce

Having tried over 1,000 cases during her twenty-seven years as a litigator, Wendy is a courtroom warrior who has tackled every type of family law matter — from divorce to child custody and everything in between. Sharing secrets learned from the country’s top law professors at the University of Notre Dame Law School and during her battles on the family law front lines, Wendy is passionate about helping not only her clients, but also those representing themselves, to feel competent, confident and comfortable in the courtroom.

Listen up, beautiful butterfly: You didn’t “just stand there.” You were resisting the entire time, and no one told you that’s what it was. Until now.

In this episode, I shine a flashlight on the small but powerful acts of resistance Christian women pull off daily in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages. We’re talking journal-hiding, secret-crying, sanity-preserving, Jesus-whispering defiance that deserves a standing ovation—but probably got met with church lady side-eye instead.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

• What resistance really looks like 
• Why keeping your mouth shut can be a power move
• How even the tiniest choice—like skipping his coffee—can be the first domino to freedom
• Why the culture you were raised in trained you to erase your own bravery—and how we’re done with that now

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• This podcast script is inspired by Allan Wade’s article, “Small Acts of Living: Everyday Resistance to Violence and Other Forms of Oppression.” 
• Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may enjoy: “Should a Christian Wife Submit to an Abusive Husband?” and “An Emotional Recovery Tool That Changes Everything.” 

From marrying a man who knew his way around a Bible and a manipulation tactic (convenient, right?) to raising six kids in eight years while being told she was a “terrible housekeeper,” Erin did what so many Christian women are taught to do—sacrifice, submit, and smile. But eventually, she realized something crucial. God wasn’t calling her to be a martyr in her own marriage.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

• The subtle and not-so-subtle red flags Erin missed (like that “I wanted to kiss your sister” comment… um, what?)
• How spiritual gaslighting and weaponized Scripture kept her stuck
• The pivotal moment she knew she had to get out
• What helped her make her escape
• How the Flying Free Kaleidoscope and a few fierce new friendships helped her heal

We talk about the awkwardness of being told you’re abandoning your family when all you’re trying to do is not literally abandon your sanity. Erin’s story is heartbreaking but also full of hope.

So grab your tissues, maybe a pint of Ben and Jerry’s, and hit play. You’ll walk away feeling seen, heard, and a little more brave.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here 

Related Resources:

• Do you like listening to survivor stories? We have more! Listen to Marie’s story, Laurie’s story, and Stacie’s story.

Have you ever found yourself at 3 AM, deep in a Google rabbit hole, trying to make sense of your husband's behavior like you're some kind of undercover FBI agent? Well, I'm here to tell you that this obsession isn't a sign you're losing it—it's actually the FIRST step toward your freedom.

In this episode, I'm breaking down the five stages of recovery from emotional abuse that I've witnessed time and again in my work with thousands of women:

• Discover why your brain's detective mode is actually a necessary part of healing (and why you should stop beating yourself up for "still thinking about him")
• Learn about the powerful moment when your focus shifts from figuring HIM out to reclaiming YOU—and why this is where the real magic happens
• Understand how your healing journey transforms you from a survivor desperately searching for answers to the wise mentor you never had (but always deserved)
• Find out why setting boundaries isn't just about protecting yourself—it's about rediscovering joy and learning to trust yourself again

Remember, healing isn't linear, and every stage serves a purpose. Whether you're analyzing text messages at midnight or helping other women find their wings, you're exactly where you need to be. Grab your coffee (or wine—zero judgment here!), get comfortable, and let me walk you through how this messy, beautiful recovery process really happens.

You are becoming who you were always meant to be. And I promise you, butterfly—you are NOT alone.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Liked this episode? Here are some other episodes and an article that you may find helpful as well: 
• Episode 306, “Lessons I’m Learning in Physical Therapy About How We Heal.” 
• Episode 277, “What the Healing Journey Looks Like.” 
• An article, “7 Steps to Identifying and Healing from an Emotionally Abusive ‘Christian’ Marriage.” 

We’ll dig into some fascinating research by Dr. Valerie Hobbs on how conservative Christian sermons frame divorce - and let me tell you, what's being preached often doesn't match reality. 

Here's what you'll discover in this episode:

• The surprising biblical truth about divorce, including the fact that God Himself got a divorce (Jeremiah 3:8) and what this means for women in harmful marriages
• How common Bible verses about divorce are routinely misinterpreted and weaponized against women seeking safety and freedom
• The shocking difference between why women initiate divorce (abuse, infidelity, and substance abuse) versus men's reasons (falling out of love, different lifestyles)
• How the ancient marriage certificate (ketubah) actually protected women's rights and gave them grounds for divorce - completely changing how we should understand Jesus' teachings

This isn't just theological debate - this is about real women making heart-wrenching decisions every day. I've walked this path myself, and I know the spiritual anguish of believing God wants you to stay in a destructive marriage.

If you're questioning what you've been taught about divorce, experiencing emotional or spiritual abuse, or supporting someone who is, please listen to this episode. You'll discover that God cares about your emotional and spiritual safety and wellbeing, and that leaving an abusive marriage just might be the most faithful thing you can do.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Dr. Valerie Hobbs' groundbreaking study that I used for this episode, "The Discourse of Divorce in Conservative Christian Sermons."
• Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may be interested in: “God Doesn’t Hate ALL Divorce,” “How Do I Know if Divorce Is the Right Choice for Me?” and “How To Tell Your Kids You’re Getting Divorced.” 

This episode is a raw, no-fluff look at what’s really happening behind the stained-glass windows:

• 82% of women say sexism shaped their church experience—and 35% report sexual harassment. Let that sink in.
• How twisted theology has been used to minimize abuse, silence women, and turn forgiveness into a weapon
• Real, doable steps churches can take to stop being breeding grounds for harm and start becoming actually safe
• Why men in leadership must do their own deep healing before they can lead anyone else
• The holy importance of listening to your gut, your body, and your sacred knowing when something just feels off

If you've ever been told to “just forgive and move on,” felt erased in your own spiritual community, or wondered why abusers get protected while survivors get blamed—this conversation will wrap you in validation and truth.

Dr. Bauman speaks as someone who’s been on both sides of this story. And his message? You’re not crazy. You’re not alone. And the God you love is nothing like the systems that harmed you.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Read Dr. Bauman’s newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.
• Connect with Dr. Bauman on Facebook.
• Check out Dr. Bauman’s blog. 
• Like what you heard today? Listen to Episode 41 and Episode 164 of the Flying Free Podcast with Dr. Andrew Bauman, and then head over to Episode 45 and Episode 279 to hear my interviews with his wife, Christy Bauman. 

Guest Bio: 

Founder and director of the Christian Counseling Center: For Sexual Health & Trauma. Dr. Bauman is a therapist & author of 7 books including his newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities.

Resources mentioned:
How to Do the Work by Dr. Nicole LePera
Flying Higher

In today’s powerful episode, I unpack the often-overlooked reality of addiction-fueled abuse. We’ll talk about how addictions—from porn and gambling to drugs and spending—impact the brain, hijack relationships, and leave women spiritually and emotionally devastated.

If you’ve ever tried harder, prayed longer, or changed yourself to fix what’s broken in your marriage, this episode is a healing balm and a wake-up call. I want to remind us that addiction is the problem—not you—and offer biblical, practical wisdom for reclaiming your power, peace, and dignity.

Key Takeaways:

• Addiction ≠ love problem. You can’t love, pray, or submit your husband out of his addiction. Change only happens when he chooses it.
• Addiction changes the brain. It affects dopamine systems, impulse control, and emotional regulation, making empathy and honesty difficult.
• You are not crazy. Gaslighting, mood swings, and financial chaos are symptoms of a deeper issue—not proof you're “too sensitive.”
• God does not call you to endure abuse. You are permitted to set boundaries, seek legal protection, and pursue peace—even if that means separation or divorce.
• Healing begins when you turn inward. Like one brave woman in the Kaleidoscope said, "Help me get free from the constant pain"—and everything changed.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Some Flying Free Podcast episodes you might be interested in: “Can My Alcoholic Husband Change?” and “Am I the Problem in My Marriage?” 

In this episode, I'll talk about a powerful tool from this book that can gently pull you out of those darkest emotional spaces and reconnect you to hope, resilience, and even joy. Through the story of Ann, a woman devastated by another failed relationship, we explore how we often chase external solutions (like the perfect partner) to fix our internal emptiness, only to find ourselves more disappointed when they don't deliver the salvation we crave.

Here's what you'll learn from this episode:

• How to identify when you're caught in the trap of "false hope" and why external achievements, relationships, or possessions never fill the void we think they will

• The simple 5-step Mother Tool practice that can lift you out of demoralization and reconnect you to your inner strength, even when everything feels hopeless

• Real examples of how this tool has helped people transform their creative blocks, unhealthy relationship patterns, and even approach chronic pain with renewed resilience

When we're at our lowest, what we need isn't logic or problem-solving – we need love. That's exactly what the Mother Tool helps us access: an unconditional, nurturing presence inside ourselves that sees our worth regardless of our circumstances.

This practice isn't about fixing your external situation; it's about shifting your emotional state so you can show up to life with clarity and strength. Because when you reconnect to that loving presence within, you discover the resilience to keep going – not because things are perfect, but because you're loved.

Join me for this heart-opening episode where I walk you through exactly how to use this tool in your own life. And if you're craving more connection and growth, remember that my Flying Higher mentorship program offers weekly classes, coaching, and a beautiful community of almost 300 women supporting each other's journeys. You can learn more at joinflyinghigher.com.

Yeah. Me too. And Dr. Ramani Durvasula’s book It’s Not You is here to throw a holy wrench into that narrative.

In this week’s episode of the Flying Free Podcast, I’m unpacking the powerful truths in this book and showing you exactly how it validates the lived reality of women in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships. 

We’re talking:

• What narcissistic abuse actually looks like (hint: it’s not always loud or obvious)
• The spectrum of narcissism and how it shows up in faith communities
• How to stop blaming yourself and start protecting your peace
• Practical strategies to regain your emotional footing (no seminary degree required)

This episode is part validation, part education, and 100% you’re-not-crazy encouragement. If you've ever felt spiritually duped or emotionally wrung out in a relationship that was supposed to be “biblical,” I promise—this one will hit home in the best way.

Hit play, breathe deep, and remember: You are not the problem. You never were.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Read Dr. Ramani’s book for yourself, It’s Not You.
• Check out some related, past Flying Free episodes: “What is Gaslighting in a Toxic Narcissistic Relationship” and “Using Art to Heal from Narcissistic Abuse.” 

You don’t need to strive harder.
You need to breathe, unclench your jaw, and finally release what’s not yours to carry.

Press play and feel the shift.

Go deeper with me in Flying Higher! 

Gaslighting is usually something done to us—manipulation that makes us question our reality. But what happens when we internalize it? When we start running the script on autopilot and doubting ourselves before anyone else even gets a chance? Buckle up, because our Kaleidoscope members had some thoughts on this, and we’re breaking it all down.

Key Takeaways: 

• Idealizing Others – When we believe that if we just act a certain way, that person will finally approve of us? That’s a trap.
• Believing the Unbelievable – Sometimes, we’re so conditioned to believe our abuser isn’t lying that we ignore all the red flags. It’s like trying to finish a puzzle when someone keeps hiding the pieces. Maddening, right?
• Giving Away Our Credibility – We assume the other person must be right and know better than us. Newsflash: That’s not always true.
• Agreeing Against Our Gut – You ever nod along while every fiber of your being screams, Nope, not true!? 
• Over-Spiritualizing – Just because someone prays about something doesn’t mean their actions magically become good. Intentions don’t equal truth.
• Minimizing Abuse – “Maybe I’m making a big deal out of nothing.” Nope, friend. If it feels bad, it is bad. Maybe even worse than bad.
• How Faith Can Condition Us – Ever been told you’re “thinking evil” just because you question something? That’s not faith. That’s control.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying to please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past five years, she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

But here’s the truth: not all fear is bad. In fact, some of it is a God-given superpower... and some of it? More like an overactive smoke alarm when you've just made toast. 

In this Flying Higher moment, we break down the two kinds of fear—clean fear that protects you and dirty fear that keeps you stuck. You'll learn: 

✨ How fear really works in your brain and body
 ✨ Why Christian women in abusive relationships often live in chronic fear
 ✨ The surprising root fear hiding under all the others
 ✨ How to tell if fear is leading you—or limiting you
✨ Practical ways to reclaim your peace (without gaslighting yourself)

If you’ve ever been afraid of making a mistake, being alone, messing up your kids, or just feeling your feelings—this one’s for you.

Join me for the entire course called The Fear Cure inside Flying Higher by visiting joinflyinghigher.com

Key Takeaways: 

• Definition of Gaslighting: A psychological manipulation tactic where an abuser causes the victim to question their own reality, memories, or sanity. This can be intentional or unintentional.
• Gaslighting as a Category: It encompasses various abuse tactics such as blaming, projection, and minimizing.
• Self-Gaslighting as Survival: While traditional gaslighting is a manipulation tactic used by one person against another, self-gaslighting often arises as an unconscious coping mechanism to minimize conflict and protect ourselves from emotional pain.
• Breaking Free: The first step in healing is acknowledging the truth and replacing self-gaslighting with truth. 

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying to please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past five years, she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

Through real-life examples and compassionate insights, I explore why this happens, how mothers can reframe their perspectives, and practical steps they can take to strengthen their relationship with their children while continuing their healing journey.

Key Takeaways: 

• Understanding why kids act like their father
• Reframing the perspective on kids' behavior
• Healing yourself to better parent your child
• Practical parenting strategies
• Building a safe, loving home environment

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Most of us see triggers as a bad thing—proof that we’re too sensitive, too emotional, or just plain too much. But what if I told you that your triggers are actually pointing you toward healing?

In this week’s podcast episode, we’re unpacking:
 ✔️ What triggers actually are (hint: they’re not just annoying mood-ruiners)
✔️ Why they happen (spoiler: your brain is just trying to protect you)
✔️ How to heal them so they don’t hijack your peace every time someone breathes wrong
✔️ The ultimate trigger survival guide (yes, you can recover faster and freak out less!)

If you’re ready to stop letting triggers control your emotions and start using them as a tool for growth, this episode is for you.

Join me and hundreds of other Christian women 10Xing their own healing and self-development inside Flying Higher! 

Key Takeaways:

• The Bible differentiates between normal and wicked people. Understanding these distinctions helps us navigate relationships wisely.
• Wicked individuals attack and blame others when confronted with their harmful actions.
• Evil individuals actively seek to destroy and humiliate their targets.
• A person's true nature is revealed in difficult situations, especially when they are confronted about their harmful behavior.
• Healing from exposure to wicked or evil individuals is a lifelong process, but it becomes possible when we remove ourselves from the toxic environment.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Check out Episode 93 of “The Place We Find Ourselves” podcast with Adam Young.
• Read the article I mentioned, “Why Foolproofing Your Life Will Save Your Life,” and then grab Jan Silvious’ book, Foolproofing Your Life.
• Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may enjoy: “What Do You Do If You’re Married to a Fool?” and “What are the Biblical Grounds for Divorce? (And Other Questions!)” 

For too long, you were told who to be, what to believe, and how small to make yourself. But here’s the truth: You were created to be a powerful co-creator in your own life. And in this episode we’re talking about how to break free from perfectionism, fear, and old conditioning so you can start building a life that feels like you.

Join Flying Higher in March HERE!

Key Takeaways:

• Fear is a natural response to an abusive environment. Trying to "toughen up" emotions to endure abuse is not the solution; rather, finding ways to escape is essential.
• Unhook from his words. An abuser’s insults and accusations are projections of their own delusions, not reflections of your worth.
• Abusers see their victims as LEGO characters. They create a false narrative about who you are and expect you to conform. Recognizing this can help you detach emotionally.
• Radical acceptance is necessary. Understand that an abusive partner does not want genuine connection—only control and transaction.
• Survival mode is not living. Every day you endure abuse is survival, but true healing comes from stepping into a life of freedom.
• You deserve a future beyond survival. Healing is possible, and there are communities and resources to help you move forward.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Need a resource to help you as you unhook? Check out my interview with the founder of the app, Aimee Says, and then try it out for yourself!
• Want a free chapter of my book, “Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage”? Sign up for my mailing list, and I’ll send a copy straight to your inbox. 

I'd love to mentor you! Join me inside Flying Higher!

I examine the disadvantages of staying in an abusive relationship, as well as the significant challenges faced during and after the divorce process. With thought-provoking questions and practical insights, this episode will help you assess whether leaving your marriage is the right choice for you. If you're feeling trapped and looking for clarity, support, and a path forward, this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways:

• The emotional and psychological toll of staying in an abusive marriage.
• Physical and financial disadvantages of staying.
• Social and legal challenges of remaining in abuse.
• The harsh reality of divorce.
• Life after divorce—the path to healing.
• Guiding questions to determine if divorce is the right choice for you.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Check out my interview with the founder of the app, Aimee Says, and then try it out for yourself!
• Read the article I mentioned, “How to Leave an Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 10 Steps.” 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Remy, the author of Broken Trust, shares insights from his decades of ministry experience and his passion for helping people heal from spiritual abuse. Whether you're grappling with toxic religious environments or recovering from years of harmful teachings, this episode offers hope, practical advice, and a fresh perspective.

Key Takeaways:

• Understanding Spiritual Abuse: Spiritual abuse often involves toxic leadership that weaponizes faith to control, manipulate, or shame individuals.
• Toxic Faith vs. Spiritual Abuse: Toxic faith is the belief that you must perform or meet certain standards to please God, while spiritual abuse occurs when leaders use those beliefs to exploit or control others.
• The Impact of Spiritual Abuse on Relationships: Abuse within churches often mirrors abusive dynamics in families, leading to distrust, division, and confusion.
• Healing from Spiritual Abuse: Recovery begins with identifying harmful patterns, stepping away if necessary, and seeking support through books, therapy, and supportive communities.
• The Power of Questioning Toxic Narratives: It’s okay to question teachings and leaders. Faith flourishes when it’s rooted in personal connection with God, not human-made rules.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Read one (or all) of Remy’s books: Broken Trust, Healing the Hurts of Your Past, Return From Exile, and Stuck are some of my favorites. 
• Connect with Remy on his site. 
• Go visit Remy over on YouTube. 
• Email Remy at remy@readingremy.com to request an audiobook code (limited supply).
• Check out Be Emboldened for support as you recover from spiritual abuse.
• Related article and episode: “Bethlehem Baptist Church Is Not Safe for Emotionally Abused Women,” and “Is Your Church Safe?”
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Remy is a seasoned pastor and spiritual consultant with a heart for helping others overcome life's challenges. Over his three decades of ministry, he's authored six books that offer practical guidance and spiritual support for those seeking healing and connection to God. Remy's expertise extends beyond the pulpit. He's spent 24 years as a spiritual consultant at an addiction treatment center, where he's witnessed firsthand the transformative power of faith and hope. Today, Remy dedicates his time to empowering pastors to build healthy church cultures and coaching individuals on the themes of his books. A lifelong resident of Minneapolis, Minnesota, Remy is married with three adult children. His passion for helping others shines through in his writing, speaking, and counseling.

Join the Flying Higher Butterflies as we study the Bible, read books together, coach, and do classes in a live mentorship online setting each week! 

Key Takeaways:

• Developmental understanding of a three-year-old
• How to talk to a toddler about divorce without alienation
• Normalizing divorce for kids
• Navigating court and custody challenges
• Prioritizing self-care and healing

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Your local library. Check out books about divorce for kids to normalize the situation for them—for free! 
• Recommended episodes: “When Coercively Controlling Fathers Sabotage Mothers’ Relationships With Their Children,” “Raising Resilient Kids Even if Your Co-Parent Is Destructive,” and “Help Your Kids Overcome Trauma from Abuse and Divorce.” 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

If you’ve ever felt disillusioned by literal interpretations of scripture or struggled to reconcile the Bible with the harm inflicted by its misuse, this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways:

1. Faith as a Journey, Not a Destination
   • Liz encourages listeners to embrace uncertainty and approach the Bible with curiosity rather than fear.
   • Faith isn't about having all the answers; it's about walking into the unknown with Jesus as your anchor.
2. Permission to Wrestle and Question
   • Deconstruction doesn’t signal a loss of faith but rather an act of trust. Asking questions shows a desire for authenticity in our relationship with God.
3. Survivor-Centric Bible Reading
   • Survivors of spiritual abuse can reclaim agency by approaching scripture in ways that feel safe and healing. It’s okay to prioritize certain passages while setting others aside.
4. Diverse Perspectives Enrich Understanding
   • Liz emphasizes the value of exploring interpretations from scholars across cultures and disciplines to deepen our understanding of scripture.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Liz Charlotte Grant’s book: Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible
• Liz Charlotte’s website: lizcharlottegrant.com
• Follow Liz Charlotte on Instagram
• Recommended episodes: Episode 283, “A Closer Look at Spiritual Abuse,” and Episode 291, “The Deconstruction Books That Have Changed and Healed My Relationship with God.”
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Liz Charlotte Grant is an award-winning essayist whose first book, Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible, released in January 2025. She explores a wide range of ideas in her writing, including exploring the heartbreak of Elisabeth Elliot's third marriage, her own surprise disability, and the discovery of dark matter. 

We also talk about creating emergency plans to keep your children safe—both emotionally and physically. Whether you’re separated, divorced, or just trying to navigate a difficult co-parenting situation, this episode is full of insights to help you create a healthy, stable parenting environment for your kids.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Missed last week’s episode? Don’t worry! We introduced the basics of parallel parenting in Episode 311.
• Check out Diana Swillinger’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast for more on healing and emotional growth. I recommend episodes like “Staying Out of Family Drama.” and “Accepting What Is.”
• Check out Diana’s website.
• Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.
• You might also be interested in listening to Episode 233. In this episode, Jessica Nagy shares practical techniques for helping your kids regulate their emotions and build resilience. Learn how to support your children, co-regulate alongside them, and model healing so they can thrive despite the challenges of having a harmful parent.
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 years she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

We explore how to rise above emotional manipulation, operate from a place of peace and truth, and model resilience for your children. Whether you’re navigating parallel parenting or seeking emotional clarity, this episode is full of practical wisdom and hope.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Love Diana? We have another episode with her here: The Importance of Empathy for Yourself.
• Check out Diana’s website.
• Follow Diana’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast. Some of her best episodes include “Staying Out of Family Drama,” “Have To Vs. Choose To,” “When People Are Wrong About You,” “When People Are Right About You,” and “Accepting What Is.”
• Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.
• Are you in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationship? You might want to also listen to this episode: Are You Married to a Quiet Covert Abuser with a Hidden Lifestyle?
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 year she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

You won’t want to miss this episode—it might just change the way you think about trust forever.

Would you like to be part of my live mentorship program, Flying Higher? Head over HERE to learn more! 

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why anger and critical thinking are normal, healthy responses to injustice.
• How to unhook from shaming tactics used by abusers and others.
• The importance of stewarding your own mental, physical, and spiritual health.
• A biblical perspective on “in sickness and in health” in the context of abusive relationships.
• Why it’s not helpful to focus on parsing out mental illness vs. abuse in relationships.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Need a mentor this year? Go to joinflyinghigher.com to learn more!

Key Topics Covered: 

• The role of empathy in healing
• Personal responsibility vs. victim-blaming
• The difference between needing validation and needing empowerment
• The importance of challenging our deeply rooted beliefs
• A powerful tool for growth
• Building a life aligned with the heart of God

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Love Diana? Listen to Episode 256 of the Flying Free Podcast to get more of her!
• Check out Diana’s website.
• Follow Diana’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast. Some of her best episodes include “Staying Out of Family Drama,” “Have To Vs. Choose To,” “When People Are Wrong About You,” “When People Are Right About You,” and “Accepting What Is.”
• Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.
• Listen to the episode on victim blaming that I mentioned in today’s show. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 year she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

Links mentioned:
Try Flying Free one week for one dollar now through January 5, 2025 - Click HERE
Flying Free
Flying Higher

Through powerful testimonials from Christian women, I highlight the courage, growth, and healing that come in just one year of taking intentional steps to break free from abuse, rebuild a life of freedom, and pursue self-development.

Discover how these women overcame fear, anxiety, and self-doubt to embrace healing, reclaim their identities, and create lives full of purpose and joy. Whether you’re navigating the complexities of divorce, overcoming spiritual abuse, or simply seeking personal growth, this episode will encourage you to imagine your own transformation in the coming year.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• Heartfelt stories of resilience and transformation from Christian women just like you.
• Reflections on recognizing abuse, setting boundaries, and finding freedom.
• Insights into rebuilding relationships with God, children, and oneself after abuse.
• An invitation to intentionally plan for growth and healing in 2025 

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Grab your own butterfly planner for 2025 (and consider joining us in Flying Higher if you want to go through the Wings to Soar planning workshop with me in January 2025!)
• Listen to the episode mentioned in today’s show, Episode 197, about all of our different parts and how they interact on our bus!
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress.