“You work across the industry… what are you seeing right now?”

This episode is my answer.

Not pulled from headlines.
Not scraped from LinkedIn posts.
Not theory.

This is pattern recognition drawn from real conversations inside Forum®, private working sessions, founder dinners, sales calls, boardrooms, and years of building and advising studios at the highest level.

⸻

This isn’t a downturn. It’s a reconfiguration.

In 2025, something surprising happened:
 • Studios were busy
 • Revenue went up
 • Payrolls shrank

Smaller teams.
Higher leverage.
Clearer positioning.

At the same time, the anxious middle of the industry is being pulled into a race to the bottom — faster than ever.

Ryan Summers and I call this shift The Great Bifurcation.

In this episode of The Fabulist™, I break down the Seven Laws of Thriving Studios — the patterns separating studios that are gaining authority from those losing relevance.

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The Seven Laws Covered in This Episode
 1. From Servicing Projects → Solving Problems
 2. From Order Taker → Expert
 3. From Outsider → Insider (Experts Travel)
 4. From Hoping to Win → Pitching to Win
 5. From Selling Inputs → Selling Outputs
 6. From One of Many → The One & Only (a → the™)
 7. From Attention → Trust

We also cover:
 • Why AI doesn’t replace expertise — it amplifies it
 • Why pitching (done well) is still the highest-ROI activity for top studios
 • Why trust will be the rarest asset in the next creative era
 • Why founders are shrinking teams while increasing revenue
 • How insiders think differently than vendors

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Referenced Conversations & Contributors

This episode draws from real conversations and sessions with founders and leaders including:

• Ryan Summers
• Kevin Rapp (Ultra Friends)
• Jeremy Dimmock (Polyester Studio)
• Nuno Ferreira
• Justin Cone (BUCK)
• Mitch Monson (Sibling Rivalry)
• Tony Kadillak (VERSUS)
• Tim Bradley (Pennant Video)
• Ed Rhine (Spillt)
• Dominic DiMaria
• Martin Schurmann (Váscolo)
• Radim Malinic
• Matt Hernandez (Paramount)

⸻

About Me

I’m Joel Pilger — former studio founder (20 years at Impossible Pictures), advisor to the world’s top creative studios, host of The Fabulist™ podcast, curator of Fuse private dinners, and founder of Forum™, the private peer community where studio owners master the art of the business.

Most of the conversations you hear on this podcast continue inside Forum — where founders stop being order takers and start leading as experts.

⸻

If this episode made you uncomfortable… good.

That usually means one of these Laws is already at work in your business.

👉 Learn more about Forum™ and how studio founders are navigating this shift together at joelpilger.com

From Boston’s “old guard” union shop era to today’s gray area where studios look a little like agencies (and brands build in-house teams), this conversation gets real about identity, positioning, and why the business of running a studio is the most interesting project you’ll ever take on. Tim breaks down Pennant’s mid-funnel Video Marketing Trifecta (Differentiation, Demonstration, Validation) and how productizing strategy turns scattered content needs into measurable results. The group also talks lifestyle companies, saying no to the wrong work, collaborating across sister companies, and the power of generosity over zero-sum thinking.

If you’re a founder navigating agency relationships, brand-direct work, or that “are we a studio or an agency?” identity crisis—this one’s for you.

What You’ll Learn

• Studio → Partner: How challenger studios win by solving problems, not just fulfilling briefs.
• Old Guard vs. New Guard: What changed in Boston’s market—and why it mirrors everywhere.
• Productized Strategy: Pennant’s mid-funnel framework (Differentiation / Demonstration / Validation).
• Saying No (On Purpose): Why Vagrants turned down ~half a million in “the wrong” work—and what that unlocked.
• Direct-to-Brand Reality: Working with modern in-house teams and where agencies still fit.
• Ops is Creative: Why COO thinking (utilization, team health, repeatable value) fuels better creative.
• Community > Competition: Forum, Fuse dinners, and the “generosity paradox” in action.

Guests

• Dustin Devlin — Co-Founder & CCO, Vagrants
• Winston — Co-Founder & COO, Vagrants
• Tim Bradley — Founder, Pennant Video Co.

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 Cold open: “We’re challenging the industry.”
• 01:00 Who’s in the room? Fuse dinner setup & why it matters.
• 04:30 Old guard vs. new guard: Boston’s production landscape.
• 07:40 The DSLR revolution and the cracks in the agency model.
• 12:30 From “we’re directors” to “we’re founders”: lifestyle company mindset.
• 16:30 Ops is a team sport: crossing the 5-year hump as owners.
• 21:45 Enter Tim: building business inside an agency—and the leap.
• 27:00 Pennant’s origin: launching without a reel, with a framework.
• 31:30 Awareness vs. Mid-Funnel: why sexy spots aren’t a strategy.
• 37:10 Vagrants + Pennant as sister companies: solving the whole problem.
• 45:00 Direct-to-brand, in-house teams, and agency adjacency.
• 47:05 The Video Marketing Trifecta (Differentiation / Demonstration / Validation).
• 51:00 From “we’ll throw in creative” to leading with strategy.
• 54:00 Hiring an ECD and offering strategic partnerships.
• 56:30 Objective partners, not yes-men: creative that moves the business.

Notable Quotes

• “Running a studio is the most interesting project we’ll ever work on.”
• “We’re not vendors—we’re partners. The work has to move the business.”
• “Generosity beats zero-sum. Rising tides really do raise all ships.”
• “Productize the why, not just the what.”

Links & Resources

• Forum — Joel’s private community for studio founders: joelpilger.com
• Fuse — Intimate founder dinners (mentioned in the episode)
• Pennant Video Co. — Mid-funnel video strategy and execution
• Vagrants — Creative/production studio

Credits

• Host: Joel Pilger
• Guests: Dustin Devlin, Winston Macdonald (Vagrants); Tim Bradley (Pennant Video Co.)
• Audio Partner: Coupe Studios — huge thanks for making this show sing.

Call to Action

If you’re serious about running a resilient studio that unleashes your best creative work, apply to join Forum at joelpilger.com. Many of these conversations continue there.

You’ll learn

• How “scrappiness” evolves from guessing emails to building brand-direct pipelines
• The mindset shift from on the box to on the business—and when to make it
• Why selling expertise beats selling time (and how to defend flat-fee pricing)
• Scripts and stances for protecting process (and your weekends)
• Why being willing to walk away wins negotiations—and attracts better clients
• An owner’s take on AI: client fatigue, what’s commoditized, and where premium work grows

Timestamps

• 00:00 Intro — The bigger needs are getting bigger
• 01:00 Barton’s origin story & ABC’s focus on photoreal, story, and craft
• 04:00 Scrappy beginnings → modern hustle (and why it still matters)
• 09:00 Firing yourself from the box: role shifts as the team scales
• 16:30 Keeping the bar high without “saving” projects
• 17:30 Process > panic: the pool-construction analogy clients never forget
• 22:00 Why ABC built brand-direct from day one (and agency pitfalls)
• 27:00 Stop selling time: pricing for outcomes, not day rates
• 33:00 Risk, transparency, and the real reason studios charge more
• 35:00 “We pick clients too”: reframing awards, pitches, and selection
• 41:00 AI fatigue is real: what clients want now vs. what’s replaceable
• 47:00 iPhone vs. Alexa: a clear framework for AI and premium craft
• 50:00 Closing & takeaways

Key quotes

• “The person who wins the negotiation is the one willing to walk away.”
• “If my slowest, least-experienced artist bills the most, your model’s upside down.”
• “Our business only works if we enjoy it.”
• “AI will eat the quick, crappy content. The best human work only gets more valuable.”

About Barton
Barton Damer is the founder and founding artist of Already Been Chewed, a Wylie/Dallas studio known for skate-culture roots, photoreal craft, and brand-direct campaigns in 3D, VFX, and product visualization. Over 15+ years, ABC has partnered with top global brands while staying lean, family-friendly, and obsessively focused on story and execution.

Mentions
Nike, Vans, New Balance, Lucasfilm, Disney, Tiffany, Google, Street League, Camp Mograph, FORUM & Fuse dinners.

Links & Next Steps

• Explore more episodes and push your creative business forward: joelpilger.com
• If you’re serious about running a resilient studio and creating great work, apply to join Forum at joelpilger.com.

In this episode of The Fabulist, I talk with Cory Livengood (Creative Director & Founder, Dash Studio) and Meryn Hayes (Executive Producer, Dash Studio) about the evolution of Dash Bash—a Raleigh-born festival that’s become a biannual hub for creativity, collaboration, and community.

Originally launched to celebrate Dash Studio’s 5th anniversary, Dash Bash has since grown into something much bigger. Cory and Meryn share the origin story, the highs and lows of producing an event of this scale, and why gatherings like these matter more than ever for the future of our industry.

You’ll hear:

• How Dash Bash evolved from a party into a multi-day festival
• Why Raleigh has become a surprising creative hotspot
• The realities (and rewards) of producing large-scale events
• Stories of late-night lobby talks, spontaneous collaborations, and community moments that fuel both mental health and momentum
• What the future holds for Dash Bash—and why its focus on people over technology makes it stand apart

Whether you’re a studio founder, freelancer, or creative hungry for connection, this conversation offers practical takeaways and a reminder that we’re stronger—and more inspired—together.

🎧 Listen in—and mark your calendar: the next Dash Bash is coming in 2027.

What do seasoned founders build once the studio is humming? How does leadership evolve from momentum to meaning? And how do these founders define success on their own terms? 

This conversation dives into the second act of creative entrepreneurship—from launching new ventures to leading quietly behind the scenes—and offers a rare glimpse at how these visionary women are redefining purpose, growth, and legacy. 

Born from a dream—and a desire to break all the traditional “conference” rules—Paradiso set out to eliminate the divide between speaker and audience, to prioritize intimacy over scale, and to create the kind of creative connection that changes lives.

Together, Hector and Marko reflect on the inspiration behind Paradiso, the challenges they overcame to make it happen, and why staying small and intentional is the key to its magic. From school trip nostalgia to raw artistic expression, this episode captures the spirit of a creative community redefining what’s possible when we gather.

And yes… next year is already in motion.

🎟️ Explore Paradiso 2026:
https://paradisofest.com/

📣 View the 2026 Announcement on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DH3erFeu778/

From their early days at Prologue to building a boutique studio that works directly with top filmmakers, Aaron and Seth reveal the real story of Filmograph’s rise, the lessons they’ve learned, and how they’ve adapted in an industry that’s constantly evolving.

We explore:
- The big break that put them on the map
- Their philosophy on creative longevity and staying independent
- The evolution of title design and branding in Hollywood
- Why they’ve avoided the pitfalls that took down once-dominant studios
- Their bold decision to shut down for six weeks every year (and why clients respect it)

If you’ve ever dreamed of running a creative studio—or just want an inside look at the world of motion design—this episode is a masterclass in building a sustainable, creative business.

Discussion Points:​ 

Was The Mill’s collapse inevitable? 

How much was due to industry shifts vs. mismanagement?

What does this mean for the future of motion design and visual effects?

How should studios rethink their business models to avoid the same fate?

The next wave: Why ingenuity, adaptability, and a new definition of “motion design” matter more than ever

This is Part 4 in our End of the Beginning of Motion Design series, featuring candid insights from industry leaders navigating a rapidly changing creative landscape. 

Listen now—because what happens next is up to us.

Tune in as we go beyond transactions and talk about what really sustains a career in this ever-evolving industry.

In this episode, we’re diving into the creative powerhouse of Turin, Italy, where two distinct yet interconnected studios, Illo and Algo, are blending art, data, and motion into bold, boundary-pushing work. Joining us are Ilenia Notarangelo, founder and creative director of Illo, and Luca Gonnelli, co-founder and CEO of Algo.

Together, they share their journey of running two studios under one roof, crafting ownable visual languages, and maintaining a healthy work-life balance—all while navigating the evolving demands of brands, AI disruption, and the ever-changing creative landscape.

Tune in as we explore:
🎨 How Illo infuses optimism and playfulness into motion design
📊 Why Algo focuses on data visualization and automation for scalable content
🌍 The importance of fostering an international yet distinctly Italian studio culture
⏳ Why they prioritize quality of life over hustle culture—including their sacred aperitivo tradition 🍷
💡 How creative studios can stand out in an era of algorithm-driven content

If you run a studio and want to master the art of business, visit joelpilger.com to apply for FORUM, a private network of the world’s leading studios.

🎧 Listen now and get inspired by Illo & Algo’s unique approach to creativity, strategy, and the business of design!

Discover how Derek balances the dual challenges of managing a creative business and pursuing his dream of making impactful films. From securing $4 million in funding during the chaos of COVID, to signing a distribution deal with Angel Studios for a theatrical release in over 2,500 theaters, Derek’s story is one of resilience, vision, and entrepreneurial grit.

If you've ever wondered what it takes to transition from producing commercials to creating feature films—or how to persevere when the odds seem insurmountable—this is the episode for you. Hear about the challenges of the entertainment industry, the power of belief and grit, and the importance of staying connected to your creative roots. 

Links: Learn more about Derek's production company: 

MakeFilms.cc Tickets for Brave the Dark: Available starting December 1st, with the film opening nationwide January 24th. 

Tune in now to explore the intersection of creativity and commerce, and to celebrate the journey of reinventing the future of storytelling.

The discussion explores:

• ​The transition from competition to collaboration and the democratization of the creative industry.
• ​The importance of fostering trust and authenticity in relationships with clients, collaborators, and teams.
• ​How personal values and actions can positively impact company culture, reputation, and success.
• ​Practical advice for creatives on how to show up authentically, add value, and find their unique lane in the industry.

Join Joel and his guests as they candidly share their journeys, insights, and aspirations for the future of creativity. Whether you're a seasoned professional or an aspiring leader, this episode offers a fresh perspective on thriving in the creative industry.

Listen now. Be inspired. Let’s redefine leadership as simply being valuable.

• We dive into: Why authenticity and truly caring about your clients’ challenges are the ultimate game-changers.
• The shift from traditional agency models to in-house teams—and what that means for studios.
• The power of curiosity in navigating change and finding new opportunities, from motion systems to experiential design.
• How to define success on your own terms—whether it’s scaling big or staying small and impactful.

Joe shares wisdom from his time working with studios of all sizes and insights from building Brand Tracker, a tool connecting incredible creative work to the people who need it most. If you’ve ever felt the push and pull of staying relevant in a fast-changing industry, this conversation is for you.

Listen now to explore what it takes to innovate, adapt, and thrive in the creative world!

We dive into the rise of in-housing, as brands increasingly bring creative work in-house. This trend, while challenging for studios reliant on agency work, is creating fresh opportunities for those ready to build direct, meaningful relationships with brands.

We also get into the role of AI in creative workflows. Justin and I discuss how AI can open up creative possibilities, but only when it’s used to enhance—not replace—human insight and craft. Justin shares his thoughts on where AI adds value and where studios should draw the line to ensure their work remains both high-quality and human-centered.

Lastly, we explore the idea of “ephemeralization” — doing more with less—and how staying curious, adaptable, and plugged into the industry can help studios navigate these ongoing shifts. This is a must-listen for anyone in the creative industry looking to stay ahead in a rapidly changing landscape.

Dominic shares his Magnetic framework, a process that helps creatives communicate their authentic voice, transforming how they approach clients and projects. 

Tune in for practical insights on breaking through the noise, building a memorable brand, and why “the only ‘next’ that matters is the next first.”

To help answer that question, I’ve brought together an incredible panel of powerhouse Producers – Rebecca Olson, Kathryn Henderson, Leyla T. Rosario, and Jessica L. Ransom – to shed light on the role of these behind-the-scenes masterminds. From navigating complex projects to keeping creative chaos in check, these experts reveal the magic Producers bring to every production.

I’ll admit: I wasn’t cut out to be a Producer. In fact, my studio’s turning point came when I finally hired a rockstar Producer. The difference was night and day, transforming Impossible Pictures into a high-functioning powerhouse. It’s why, even though I’m all about championing creatives, I’m here to declare:

Producers are the Unsung Heroes of our Industry!

Still not convinced? Give this episode a listen and I guarantee you’ll see just how indispensable these heroes are. 

And if you already agree, show some love to your favorite Producer in the comments.

Huge shoutout to Coupe Studios for making The Fabulist so fabulous

Gilday shares his extensive career journey, from the early days of analog media to the cutting-edge digital era, and highlights the unique skills and crafts that are being overshadowed by technological advancements. Concerned about the diminishing opportunities for students and junior roles in creative fields due to AI technologies, he urges the younger generation to become indispensable by helping older professionals stay relevant.

The conversation spans various topics, including the role of AI in artistry, the eroding middlemen in the industry, and the cautionary lessons from the music sector's technological struggles. Gilday emphasizes the importance of passion over financial motivation in creative careers and shares his insights into leadership, business acumen, and the evolving demands of the creative workforce.

Join us as we explore the potential and pitfalls of AI in the creative world, the importance of regulation, and the fine balance between technology and human creativity. Whether you're an industry veteran or an aspiring creative, this episode offers valuable perspectives on navigating the future of the creative landscape.

Highlights:

• AI's Impact on Opportunities:
• How AI is reshaping job roles and opportunities in creative fields.
• Craft and Technology:
• The transition from analog to digital and its effects on craft and learning.
• Leadership and Collaboration:
• The role of creative leaders in nurturing talent and managing innovation.
• Future Outlook:
• The need for regulation and responsible use of AI in creative industries.

Tune in for an engaging discussion that blends personal experiences, professional insights, and forward-thinking perspectives on creativity and commerce.

In this episode, Joel Pilger invites Kevin to explore:

• ​Why creatives often find themselves exploited
• ​The emotional toll of turning passion into a career
• ​How business realities can erode the joy of creation

Kevin shares powerful insights on finding value in creative work, navigating the tension between business and creativity, and empowering the next generation of creators. 

Tune in for this honest conversation about the challenges and triumphs of living a creative life.

Connect with Kevin at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-rapp-consulting/

Thanks for our audio production partners at http://coupestudios.com

Find out more about FORUM at https://www.joelpilger.com/forum

Whether you’re a studio owner or a curious creative, this episode offers insights into navigating the future of motion and how your job is not to simply ease in or out of this industry, but to stay ahead of its curve. 

In this episode, we answer these questions:

- How can motion design skills be seamlessly transferred into adjacent industries, like automotive and experiential design? - Why is it crucial to focus on solving clients' core problems instead of just executing?

We're also exploring the future of motion design with thrilling innovations, from real-time CG tools to mind-blowing immersive experiences, like the NFL's Toy Story-themed broadcasts.

Plus, we'll discuss the essential mindsets for success, including a thoughtful approach, clear communication, and always being ready to provide guidance and expertise.

Don't miss out on this exciting exciting episode and stay tuned for....part 3, obviously!

GUEST

Beat Baudenbacher | Principal, Chief Creative Officer at loyalkaspar⁠

HOST

⁠⁠Joel Pilger⁠⁠ | Global Consultant at ⁠RevThink⁠ | ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠

NOMINATE A FABULIST

Know a creative entrepreneur who should be on “the list”? ⁠⁠Nominate them⁠⁠.

CREDITS

Post-Production by ⁠Coupe Studios Music & Sound Design⁠

Engineered by Taylor Marvin, Alex Hawley

Produced by Celia St. Amant, Eric Singer

The Outsourceress: ⁠⁠Lidia Scarlat⁠⁠

Special Thanks to Multimedia Storytellers ⁠Arbo Radiko

NOTES

We asked Beat to share an image of an object dear to their company. Here's what we got:

"So what popped into my head was the first MACINTOSH CLASSIC we got at my home in Switzerland, which opened the world of computer-generated visuals to me. We still have it at the office in NYC, but it doesn't work anymore."

GUEST

Orion Tate | Founder, Chief Creative Officer at ⁠BUCK and Residence

HOST

⁠Joel Pilger⁠ | Global Consultant at RevThink | ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠LinkedIn⁠

NOMINATE A FABULIST

Know a creative entrepreneur who should be on “the list”? ⁠Nominate them⁠.

CREDITS

Post-Production by Coupe Studios Music & Sound Design

Engineered by Taylor Marvin, Alex Hawley

Produced by Celia St. Amant, Eric Singer

The Outsourceress: ⁠Lidia Scarlat⁠

Special Thanks to Multimedia Storytellers Arbo Radiko

NOTES 

We asked Orion to share an image of an object dear to their company. Here's what we got:

"I like a good metaphor, and sometimes use mycorrhizal fungi to describe residence's philosophy of non-competitive cooperative sharing.
So, here's a mushroom!"

GUESTS

Ryan Honey | Founder, Chief Creative Officer at BUCK

Orion Tate | Founder, Chief Creative Officer at BUCK

HOST

Joel Pilger | Global Consultant at RevThink | Instagram | LinkedIn

NOMINATE A FABULIST

Know a creative entrepreneur who should be on “the list”? Nominate them.

CREDITS

Senior Producer: Jocelyn Arem at Arbo Radiko

Sound Design: Eric Singer at Coupe Studios

The Outsourceress: Lidia Scarlat

 NOTES
We asked Ryan and Orion to share a photo of an object dear to their company.
Meet Noodles, the mascot of this episode's graphic cover. Noodles is from BUCK's F5 Opening Titles project. Watch it here.

Looking back over the past 30 years, our field has exploded, regardless of what you call it.

In this veritable tour de force, I’m joined by futurists John LePore (formerly of Perception NYC) and Ryan Summers (IF, DK, Spillt) who argue convincingly that we are just getting started.

Hold on for the ride as we lift the veil, break down walls, and help you make sense of our rapidly evolving industry.

It’s the end of the beginning for motion design, folks.

And that’s a very, very good thing…

So put on your shades, because the future is super bright.

GUEST

Erin Sarofsky | Owner and Executive Creative Director at Sarofsky

HOST

Joel Pilger | Global Consultant at RevThink | Instagram | LinkedIn 

NOMINATE A FABULIST

Know a creative entrepreneur who should be on “the list”? Nominate them.

CREDITS

Senior Producer: Jocelyn Arem at Arbo Radiko

Sound Design: Eric Singer at Coupe Studios

The Outsourceress: Lidia Scarlat

TRANSCRIPT

Coming soon

GUEST

Marcel Ziul | Executive Creative Director & Founder at STATE Design

HOST

Joel Pilger | Global Consultant at RevThink | Instagram | LinkedIn

NOMINATE A FABULIST

Know a creative entrepreneur who should be on “the list”? Nominate them.

CREDITS

Senior Producer: Jocelyn Arem at Arbo Radiko

Sound Design: Eric Singer at Coupe Studios

The Outsourceress: Lidia Scarlat

TRANSCRIPT

Coming soon

GUESTS

Joe Wright | Co-Founder, Director, Chief Creative Officer at Sibling Rivalry

Mikon van Gastel | Co-Founder, Director, Chief Creative Officer at Sibling Rivalry

HOST

Joel Pilger | Global Consultant at RevThink | Instagram | LinkedIn

NOMINATE A FABULIST

Know an amazing creative entrepreneur who should be on “the list”? Nominate them here.

CREDITS

Senior Producer: Jocelyn Arem at Arbo Radiko

Sound Design: Eric Singer at Coupe Studios

The Outsourceress: Lidia Scarlat

Special Thanks: Rich Macar at Buttons NY and Dallas Taylor at Defacto Sound

TRANSCRIPT

Coming soon.