Description

Sheyda Karvar leads the media practice at Fingerpaint, an independent agency with creative roots. She started in operations and project management at Razorfish, moved into planning on the Dupixent launch, and joined Fingerpaint as one of three people on a brand-new media team. It now has about 60.

She and healthcare marketing leader Jen Werther compare pharma planning then and now: insertion order binders and 20-person survey samples on one side, NPI-level targeting and real-time claims data on the other. They also cover what MLR review taught her about creativity, why CTV changed the game for brands of every size, how her team automated roughly 75% of manual reporting tasks with AI in a few weeks, and where she sees dynamic creative going next.

Jen Werther: Welcome to Deep: The Health Marketing Podcast. I'm Jen Werther, and we're kicking off season three. I'm so excited to be here.

This past March at Digipharma Connect, I sat in on a panel I haven't been able to shake. A patient was sharing his experience with concierge medicine. Healthcare is personal, and his story rang true. What stuck with me is that he didn't trust doctors at all. He hadn't been to a doctor since his pediatrician and avoided them at all costs.

As I sat there, it hit close to home. My husband feels the same way. He has heart disease and he's not a fan of doctors. He does see a cardiologist, but he doesn't have a primary care physician.

So today we're starting a little differently: we're bringing the patient to the podcast. Joe was the one on stage at Digipharma, and after his panel I ran up to him and said, "We have to talk." I wanted to bring him on the podcast, and I wanted to learn more about his experience with concierge medicine: how it's changed the way he thinks about his health, how his health is managed today, and what proactive care can actually look like.

Joe O'Connor, thanks so much for joining the podcast. As you'll recall, I was that crazy lady who came up to you after your panel and said, "Your story resonated so much. My husband doesn't trust the healthcare system. He hates going to the doctor. He's got heart disease." I'm thrilled to have you here.

Joe O'Connor: Thank you so much for having me. Getting off the stage in Nashville and having someone come up and say my story resonated with them meant a lot. I got a kick out of it. I think my experience is similar to a lot of people's relationship with the healthcare system, so it was great to see that it mattered to someone.

JW: It totally mattered. I still think about it and talk about it with my husband all the time. Since you don't come from healthcare marketing like your wife does, let's get to know Joe. Tell me a little about yourself.

JO: Sure. I'm 39. I own and operate a fractional CFO services firm based in the Capital Region of upstate New York. I'm married to my wife, Sarah, and I'm the proud parent of two kids: Ella is five and Danny is about a year and a half.

JW: Wow. So you're in the thick of it.

JO: Yes, we're going through it.

JW: My two girls are seven and almost 10, and I feel like we're still in the thick of it, just a different thick.

JO: I hear the problems get more expensive.

JW: They do. Little kids, little problems; big kids, big problems. In a couple of years you're going to say, "Jen, I totally get it."

So what made you decide to go to a concierge doctor? It's fairly new. You don't hear about concierge doctors all the time. What led you to this practice?

JO: For most of my adult life, my healthcare has been very transactional. The line I use is that I didn't have a primary care doctor from my pediatrician until about a year ago.

I provide fractional CFO services for small and medium-sized businesses. I had a business relationship with someone who was starting a concierge practice, and we were bartering: she'd give me an IV, and I'd help her get her books organized. To get an IV, you have to get your blood pressure taken. The first or second time I went in, my blood pressure was running pretty high. I came back a month later and it was even higher.

I've got my own business, young kids, a lot going on, and I never thought much about my own health. Seeing my blood pressure climb started a more involved dialogue with her, and that's how it began.

My experience has been great. I meet with her once a month. We've established baselines and talked a lot about my life as well as my health. The goal is to be forward-looking rather than reactive. Historically, I'd get sick, and either I'd get through it or I'd go to a walk-in clinic, get a Z-Pak and keep moving without ever looking under the hood. This has been a real change for me, and I think it's setting me up for long-term success.

JW: In the past, when you never went to doctors, was it because you were scared? Did you have a bad experience? Where did that come from?

JO: It wasn't so much fear of the healthcare system. It felt really disjointed. And I was a guy in my 20s and 30s without any clear red flags. I've put on some weight over the last few years, but nothing was clearly wrong in how I operated day to day. I lift five to six days a week. I probably don't do as much cardio as I should, but I've been active. My thinking was: control your eating, keep going to the gym, nothing's wrong on the surface, you're good to go.

JW: Right. Why go looking for something?

JO: Exactly.

JW: Funny enough, I went to get health insurance and my blood pressure was up. I had no idea. My husband said, "You'd better start checking your blood pressure." I checked it that weekend and it was still high, and I'd been getting headaches. So I also have high blood pressure, and with little ones at home, the weight gain is inevitable.

Tell me about that first interaction with the concierge doctor. You'd been to walk-ins for a Z-Pak, and to a pediatrician long ago. What felt so different about concierge care versus a regular primary care physician?

JO: First and foremost, the amount of time I spent with my new primary care doctor. We talked about my health, but also my life and all the factors that could be affecting my health. I had recently started a business, I have two young kids and I'm very busy, so I live what could be considered a high-stress life. She took that into account instead of saying, "Get on the scale, here's your BMI," and disregarding the fact that I'm in the gym five or six days a week and a pretty built guy.

That full-picture approach resonated with me, along with her saying, "This is the first of many conversations." It gave me comfort that we were building a game plan, not a one-time thing, and that we'd work through it over an extended period.

I'm 39 now. My parents are getting older and have had their own health issues come up. On the other end, my kids are healthy, but young kids get sick all the time. It hit me that I needed to be proactive and stay on top of my health, because I have to take care of people on both ends of the spectrum. My health needs to be in order so I can support everyone else.

JW: You're looking back at genetics, but you're also looking forward, for yourself and your kids.

JO: Yes.

JW: When we spoke before, I mentioned that my husband's brother died of a massive heart attack three weeks shy of 45. He has three kids. Your story resonated when I think about genetics and how scary it is. I believe your dad had a heart scare, which led Sarah, who we'll talk to later in the episode, to say, "Now's the time to take a look at this." I'm sure this story will resonate with a lot of people, not just me.

When you think about m...

Together, they reflect on what healthcare marketers can learn from the season’s guests, from the growing role of AI and the shift toward outcomes-based measurement to the importance of understanding the full patient journey. They also explore why the human element remains essential as technology advances, including the power of patient stories, the importance of health equity, and the opportunity to help patients become more informed advocates for their own care.

Plus, Carrie and Jen weigh in on what’s next for healthcare marketing, the industry buzzwords they expect to hear more of, their biggest workplace pet peeves, and which Season 2 guest they think could win Survivor.

In this episode:

• Why healthcare marketers should consider the patients and caregivers their data may not capture
• How AI can help teams spend less time on manual work and more time on strategic thinking
• Why marketers are increasingly looking beyond clicks and impressions toward real-world outcomes
• How better patient understanding can inform smarter communication and media strategies
• The potential for AI to give patients greater access to information and support self-advocacy
• Why human stories remain one of healthcare marketing’s most powerful tools
• What Carrie, Jen, and Jen expect to see next as healthcare marketing continues to evolve

Mukund shares his journey from biomedical engineer to healthcare marketing leader. He reveals how structural and cultural divides between HCP and DTC marketing can create friction, and how shared language, unified KPIs, and conversation-ready strategies can turn that friction into connection.

The conversation looks ahead to a more integrated, AI-enabled marketing future where personalization becomes the connective tissue between patients and providers. Mukund and John cover how ad tech can quietly enable that alignment, not by selling harder, but by helping both sides meet in the middle.

Kate shares how her team uses audience insights and analytics to connect with hard-to-reach populations, reduce waste, and design campaigns that truly serve patients. She and John dive into what it really means to “meet people where they are,” navigate bias in data, and balance rigor with curiosity in every campaign.

It’s a conversation about using data with purpose and how precision makes marketing more meaningful for patients.

In this episode, Jim Potter, Executive Director of the Coalition for Healthcare Communication, joins health advertising expert John Mangano to break down the latest proposals and what they might mean in practice, from ad rules and tax policy to efforts to bring more drug manufacturing back to the U.S. You’ll hear why some ideas generate headlines but face big legal and practical hurdles, and how industry groups are preparing for what comes next.

Most importantly, we highlight how smart communication can support better health outcomes and why advertising plays a bigger role than many realize. It’s a thoughtful look at the balance between policy, industry, and patient needs, with abundant insights for anyone curious about where healthcare is headed.

Together, they tackle big questions: How can AI empower planners, buyers, and data scientists without losing the human touch? How do we break down the silos of fragmented dashboards and create unified, actionable insights? And what does it really mean to balance innovation with privacy guardrails, regulatory oversight, and patient-first thinking? The conversation is candid, practical, and packed with sharp perspectives on the opportunities and risks ahead.

Looking toward the future, the panelists share their vision of what’s next—whether it’s the rise of citizen data scientists, new streams of health data from wearables and telehealth, or the evolution of personalized patient journeys. Above all, they agree on one thing: the goal isn’t just efficiency or optimization. It’s using smarter data and technology to deliver better outcomes for patients. Tune in for a lively, thought-provoking discussion that will leave you rethinking how healthcare marketing works today—and where it’s headed tomorrow.

In this episode, Erin reflects with healthcare marketing leader John Mangano on the steep learning curve of moving into healthcare, the unexpected freedom that comes with working in a highly regulated environment, and the lessons she’s carried over from brands like Walmart and Dawn. She dives into how pharma has quietly gotten ahead of other industries in areas like data responsibility, and why connecting doctors and patients through better communication is at the heart of meaningful marketing.

From navigating regulations to seizing opportunities for innovation, Erin shows that thriving in pharma isn’t about working around the rules but embracing them. 

In this fast-moving conversation, he explores how data, technology, and curiosity fuel better storytelling, whether it’s tailoring messages for overburdened HCPs, making patient communications resonate, or leveraging next best action strategies that actually work. Along the way, he challenges the idea that pharma is “behind,” pointing to innovations in AI, personalization, and real-time measurement already transforming the industry.

Full of practical wisdom and candid perspective, this episode delves into how the most effective marketing starts with empathy, agility, and a deep understanding of your audience. It also highlights why the next 24 months will transform what's possible in healthcare communication.

The conversation covers the industry's creative constraints and why they're no reason for uninspired work. Jameson discusses the importance of integrating more outside thinking into the industry, the missed opportunity of patient-led narratives, and how pharma can better tap into trends like social listening and connected TV (CTV) to improve reach and resonance.

Jameson also offers candid views on drug pricing transparency, the future of direct-to-consumer advertising, and his vision for evolving MM+M into a daily go-to resource. His message to both pharma marketers and legislators is clear: innovation, education, and openness are the keys to building trust and delivering better outcomes.

Holly shares how systemic gaps in healthcare access, from rural health deserts to cultural and socioeconomic barriers, can be addressed through smarter marketing strategies, innovative partnerships, and authentic messaging. Together, she and John discuss the kinds of innovations and initiatives that can bring precision, empathy, and intentionality to healthcare advertising.

Whether you’re a marketer, brand leader, a healthcare professional, or a consumer, this conversation offers actionable insights into how technology, creativity, and compassion can be combined to make a real difference.

Chris shares the story of how his unique background led to the creation of DeepIntent. He explains how healthcare advertising is transforming through Health Intelligence™—a concept that combines real-time data, programmatic media, and AI to deliver smarter, more relevant campaigns.

From the rise of patient empowerment to the challenges of data fragmentation and media scale, Chris offers practical insights and a bold vision for the years ahead. You'll also hear how the industry can create more n-of-one experiences, why personalization must be privacy-safe, and what pharma innovation teams should be focusing on right now.

The conversation dives into AI's potential to enhance patient care by reducing administrative burdens, improving diagnostics, and even rewriting doctors' roles. Brad also explores the ethical and emotional implications of letting machines take on more responsibilities in healthcare, but he highlights the surprising ways AI could restore humanity to a broken system. 

Tune in for an enlivening discussion on the opportunities and challenges ahead as AI reshapes healthcare—and what it means for patients, doctors, and health marketers. 

Together, they explore:

• The unique role online communities play in supporting patients with rare and chronic conditions.
• How anonymity and accessibility are changing the way people share and seek help.
• The surprising ways patients find purpose and advocacy through their health journeys.

Sara shares moving stories of lives changed, the delicate balance of privacy and connection, and insights every health marketer, patient, and caregiver should hear. This episode drives home why real connections matter more than ever.

Tom delves into the critical role of personalized health content, highlighting why tailored messaging resonates more deeply with consumers and leads to better health outcomes. They discuss the importance of privacy in digital health experiences, the challenges and benefits of programmatic advertising, and the ways in which healthcare providers are using online resources to stay informed and better serve their patients.

Tune in to learn about how healthcare leaders leverage data-driven strategies to create meaningful connections between patients, providers, and content—and why the future of health marketing lies in understanding each consumer’s unique journey.

Damon dives deep into the intricacies of marketing within the healthcare provider ecosystem, focusing on the importance of delivering timely, relevant information to doctors in a way that complements their workflow. He explains how EHR platforms have transformed over the years and why they're a critical touchpoint for marketers aiming to influence prescription decisions and improve patient outcomes. Tune in to learn about the most valuable ways to reach HCPs at the point of care.

Jorge shares insights on the unique cultural factors that influence Hispanic health behaviors, such as family caregiving and spirituality, highlighting the underrepresentation of Hispanics in health data and clinical trials. He explains how misconceptions about insurance and financial barriers have created blind spots in marketing strategies. Jorge emphasizes the importance of culturally relevant content and the need to build trust with the Hispanic community, particularly through Spanish-language media.

The conversation also touches on the successes seen by brands that have embraced marketing to Hispanics, noting significant returns on investment. Jorge highlights the opportunities available for pharma companies to engage with this growing segment of over 60 million people and why understanding cultural nuances is essential for better health outcomes and business success.

Comments? Questions? Email deep@deepintent.com or visit TheDeepPodcast.com. 

Comments? Questions? Email deep@deepintent.com or visit TheDeepPodcast.com.