Whether you’re a finance exec, startup founder, or just curious about the future of accounting tech, you’ll enjoy Joh’s practical insights on prioritizing what matters, fostering innovation, and keeping up with the ever-changing landscape of AI. Hear firsthand how Campfire is rewriting the playbook for finance teams, why ruthless prioritization is John’s secret weapon, and which red flags to watch for when evaluating new tech solutions for your business.

Tune in for real stories, actionable advice, and a fresh perspective on leadership, tech, and the future of finance.

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BILL is a leading financial operations platform for startups to established brands. Headquartered in San Jose, California, we’re a trusted partner of leading US financial institutions, accounting firms, and accounting software providers. We empower business owners, CFOs, controllers, and accountants to save time and take control of their payables, receivables, spend, and expense management. For more information, visit bill.com.

Melissa brings you inside her world, from falling in love with paperwork as a kid, navigating corporate life, and boldly leaping into entrepreneurship with Busy Bee Advisors. You'll hear candid stories about the highs and lows: growing too fast, building a team, and learning how to course-correct. Melissa opens up about adapting to remote work during the pandemic and how that shift sparked new opportunities for her team. She also talks about launching the One Hour Bookkeeper, a project that helps stay-at-home parents and military spouses build careers on their own terms.

Whether you're dreaming of starting your own business, seeking advice on managing growth, or just want to hear a real story about balancing family and ambition, this episode is for you. Grab your headphones, Melissa’s story is full of motivation, practical tips, and a reminder that there is always a way forward.

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BILL is a leading financial operations platform for startups to established brands. Headquartered in San Jose, California, we’re a trusted partner of leading US financial institutions, accounting firms, and accounting software providers. We empower business owners, CFOs, controllers, and accountants to save time and take control of their payables, receivables, spend, and expense management. For more information, visit bill.com.

Forget relying only on cost-plus formulas or spreadsheets. Etinosa brings stories from the field, insights from brain science studies, and practical advice for using behavioral principles to set prices customers will value. Find out why understanding what customers care about and how they actually make purchase decisions can help you stand out from competitors. Learn how to confidently raise prices when needed and avoid common mistakes when communicating those changes.

If you want your pricing to truly reflect the value you deliver, this episode has actionable tips, relatable examples, and fresh ideas worth hearing. Discover what happens when you combine financial know-how with a behavioral mindset, with guidance straight from Etinosa Agbonlahor.

They cover everything from instant payments and AI-driven fraud prevention to what it takes to build trust and lasting relationships between banks and finance professionals. David also gives a behind-the-scenes look at how he leads his team with a focus on joy and purpose.

Packed with actionable insights and candid advice, this episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the future of payments, technology in banking, and how innovation really happens in finance.

This conversation is full of practical advice and real stories—how Isabelle earned respect, led diverse teams, and transformed financial data into compelling business narratives. She opens up about what it means to be a transformative leader, the essential role of empathy in her leadership style, and why staying adaptable is crucial with so much rapid change in tech and AI.

Whether you’re just starting out or dreaming of the C-suite, you’ll find plenty of actionable takeaways on building soft skills, networking, and embracing lifelong learning. Dive in for an engaging chat and get a fresh take on the future of finance, leadership, and the constantly evolving world of transport and logistics.

From jumping between Fortune 500 giants and small businesses to adapting to new roles and industries, Steve brings practical advice and lively stories—think learning operations on the factory floor and being the right-hand to the CEO. Discover why being inquisitive, building strong relationships, and developing real business acumen are essential for success. Plus, hear how staying curious and learning continuously keeps leaders ahead in a fast-moving world.

Whether you’re thinking about your next move or just want to hear what it’s really like behind the scenes, this episode packs in thoughtful tips and inspiration for every finance professional. Don’t miss it!

Bringing both his straightforward wisdom and a bit of humor, Brian breaks down the dos and don’ts of using AI tools for exam prep. He shares real-world examples of how students can get sidetracked by the endless stream of AI-generated questions and why understanding foundational concepts still matters more than ever. The conversation covers common mistakes, creative ways to use AI effectively, and how human experience and quality materials really make the difference.

Whether you’re prepping for an upcoming exam or just curious how technology is changing education, this episode is packed with hands-on advice, relatable stories, and clever insights. Tune in for a down-to-earth chat that will help you study smarter, not just harder!

You’ll hear practical stories and advice, from embracing feedback (even when it’s hard to hear) to finding the balance between authority and vulnerability. Anne discusses real leadership moments, like trusting her managers, letting go of the need to know everything, and even using AI to get creative with coaching. Whether you’re leading a team, starting your career, or just want to get better at giving and receiving feedback, this episode is full of relatable, actionable insights and a good dose of humor. Tune in for a refreshing take on what it means to grow and succeed as a leader.

From stories about melting copy machines during internships to reimagining how the next generation of accountants should be prepared, Tim shares why traditional education isn’t enough for today’s workforce, breaks down the challenges of first-year shock, and highlights the importance of mentorship and hands-on experience.

Hear how Tim is bringing creativity, energy, and storytelling into accounting education and why these skills are more essential than ever. Whether you’re a seasoned pro, new to the field, or just want a peek into what it takes to keep the wild Savannah Bananas thriving, this episode is the perfect way to set an inspired tone for the new year. Dive into a conversation that will motivate, inform, and maybe even make you laugh as you start 2026!

If you’ve ever wondered about the difference between everyday stress and real burnout, how changing just a few habits can make a huge difference, or how to balance ambition with self-care, this is the episode for you. Ting brings both empathy and expertise, making complex challenges feel relatable and offering practical tips you’ll actually want to try.

Tune in for an honest, uplifting conversation packed with real stories, helpful strategies, and a reminder that it’s okay (and important) to play, have fun, and set boundaries—even in the busiest seasons of life.

Whether you’re running your own company or leading a department, you’ll come away with ready-to-implement tips for attracting new leads, nurturing relationships, and building a solid foundation for growth—even during a downturn. Draye Redfern's real talk on marketing, team dynamics, and building lasting customer relationships will keep you hooked from start to finish. Tune in for high-energy ideas, personal stories, and a toolkit to help you turn challenges into your next big opportunity!

Hear Colleen’s take on why most organizations still aren’t using these powerful tools, what holds them back, and how advances in technology are making detailed cost analysis more accessible than ever. She shares practical advice on preparing your finance teams for innovation, overcoming common data challenges, and the first steps leaders should take to get started.

Whether you’re a finance professional, business leader, or just curious about the latest trends in cost management, this episode will deliver real-world insights and actionable tips straight from an industry thought leader. Don’t miss Colleen’s fresh perspective on how to transform your organization’s approach to profitability!

Lindsay opens up about her leap from the corporate HR grind to flexible part-time—and what she’s learned about balancing ambition, burnout, and everyday life. Expect practical strategies you can try right away, like mindful moments during your day, “job crafting” to take control of your workload, and how even the simplest actions (like buying a bigger water bottle!) can help recharge your energy.

No generic corporate pep talks here—just easy, actionable ideas and real stories that might finally help you bridge the gap from “working hell” to working well. Tune in for relatable insights, lively conversation, and the reminder that you deserve a work life that fits you.

Check out Lindsay’s bestselling book for even more of her wisdom!

Laura breaks down common traps like “random acts” of marketing, reveals how aligning around purpose improves performance, and gives actionable advice for CFOs and finance leaders who want to genuinely connect with their marketing counterparts. With real-world stories and plenty of energy, Laura discusses the transformative power of customer-centric strategies and outcome-based budgeting, all while highlighting the importance of using data for insight, not just information.

Perfect for anyone in marketing, finance, or leadership, this episode is packed with fresh ideas and relatable anecdotes that will inspire collaboration and drive success. If you’re ready to move from transaction to strategy and make a real impact. Don’t miss this engaging conversation.

From working with supportive mentors and breaking the mold in corporate leadership, to building teams where curiosity thrives and mistakes are part of the process, Kimberlee offers candid stories and actionable advice on cultivating a culture that empowers people to grow, learn, and truly love what they do. Plus, you’ll hear her insights on embracing AI and technology in accounting, ensuring that her teams spend less time crunching numbers and more time thinking strategically.

Whether you’re climbing the ranks in finance, leading a team, or just looking for inspiration, don’t miss this conversation packed with heart, humor, and practical wisdom from Kimberlee Duval.

Kari shares his journey from delivering newspapers as a kid to leading academic teams, revealing why understanding human behavior is more relevant than ever for organizations. The two discuss everything from the surprising upsides of traits like narcissism, to how managers can use personality insights to build stronger, happier teams. Whether you’re a leader or an employee, you’ll pick up practical tips and fascinating stories that can help you work better with colleagues (and maybe learn a little about yourself along the way).

If you’re curious about how personality shapes performance and culture at work, you won’t want to miss Kari’s fresh take, packed with research and relatable advice!

You'll get honest advice on preparing your team, what to look for in automation platforms, and why empowering your finance pros matters more than ever. If you’re looking to save time, reduce errors, or just get your team out of endless reconciliation work, don’t miss this episode—John’s straightforward tips and real-world stories make automation less intimidating and a lot more achievable.

You’ll hear real-world examples of process documentation, lessons from failed projects, and the critical role of innovation in keeping companies nimble and competitive. Lisa also reveals her "Innovation Engine" approach, offering actionable steps for creating a culture where anyone can contribute new ideas—without going on lengthy retreats or burning hours in meetings. If you’re a leader ready to move from firefighting to future-focused, don’t miss Lisa’s insights, stories, and practical takeaways you can use today. Plus, she shares a special offer for Count Me In listeners at the end!

Listen in for practical advice on building financial expertise, developing strategic and analytical skills, and navigating the ups and downs of international career moves. The conversation is packed with honest stories about adapting to new cultures, constant learning, and networking—including how to find your niche in a crowded field. Whether you’re a student, a recent grad, or a finance pro thinking about your next step, this episode has plenty of actionable tips to help you chart your own path to global success.

Mel breaks down common pitfalls small businesses face with their finances, and explains how real-time accounting, modern tools, and great habits can make a massive difference. With tips from years of working in turnaround consulting, she offers practical strategies that empower business owners to take control of their cash flow and plan for the future.

Tune in for an engaging, down-to-earth conversation packed with real stories, actionable advice, and the inspiration you need to rethink your approach to financial management!

Read more about today's topic: 2025 Finance and Accounting Job Market Outlook

Daniel traces the roots of virtue all the way from Greek philosophy to modern business, showing why courage, strength, and excellence matter just as much today. Doug and Dana share practical examples from their teaching and research, exploring why business education often misses the mark on building character—and how professionals at any stage can start making ethical choices that go beyond simply following rules.

Tune in for a thought-provoking, accessible discussion that will have you rethinking what it truly means to lead with integrity.

He also shares why transparency matters with AI, how teams can build a culture of innovation, and what finance professionals should do to keep their skills sharp. Packed with practical advice and firsthand stories, this episode offers an accessible and exciting look at the future of finance with AI. Don’t miss Bill’s expert take on embracing the tech that’s reshaping the industry!

Jameson gives us a candid look at what it’s like to transition between industries, build your own tools from scratch, and bravely bet on yourself when everyone says otherwise. Whether you’re an accounting pro, an aspiring entrepreneur, or just love a good real-world success story, you’ll find inspiration and maybe a few laughs in this engaging, relatable conversation.

Whether you’re just starting out or eyeing that next big promotion, Brian shares plenty of practical advice: choosing the right certification for your goals, making the most of continuing education, and preparing for real-world workplace challenges. There’s even some straight talk about what to do when you don’t know the answer, the power of networking inside your organization, and how to set yourself up (and your team) for long-term success.

Tune in for an episode packed with career wisdom, honest stories, and actionable tips—with Brian Hock’s trademark straightforward approach making it all refreshingly clear. Don’t miss this thoughtful take on how to turn certifications into actual career wins!

Adam and La Tonya dig into how to make the switch from doing everything yourself to confident delegation, ways you can borrow Fortune 500 strategies without overwhelming your team, and the major impact that company culture has on your success. You’ll also hear practical advice about strategic planning, using data for better decisions, and creative ways to use AI to boost your business.

Whether you’re a small business owner, team leader, or just curious how successful organizations operate behind the scenes, you’ll find plenty of fresh insights and actionable tips. Tune in for a motivating conversation and walk away ready to make your business simpler, smarter, and more sustainable—with expert guidance from La Tonya Roberts.

Tune in for Vrinda’s practical tips on staying curious, continuously growing your skills, and navigating the challenges of today’s rapidly evolving finance landscape. If you’re interested in how modern HR and finance teams can collaborate for success—and you want advice that’s as real as it is actionable—this candid conversation is worth a listen.

You’ll hear honest advice about why most books fail, what makes a book succeed, and practical steps for getting started the right way. If you’ve ever wondered if writing a book is right for you or how it could impact your business, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.

Listen in as Kingsley breaks down how first-principles thinking helps solve complex accounting and finance challenges, reveals what it’s like to manage rapid growth in the high-stakes world of AI-driven national security, and offers practical tips on building strong, agile finance teams. Whether you’re curious about operating at the intersection of finance, technology, and defense—or just want to hear firsthand how AI is reshaping finance—this episode is packed with insights, stories, and actionable advice. Don’t miss Kingsley’s take on earning your seat at the table, embedding finance across organizations, and fostering a culture of curiosity and empathy in fast-paced environments.

Join us as Alissa shares her firsthand experiences navigating the maze of global standards and how her company learned to prioritize and adapt. From figuring out double materiality to streamlining ESG operations with tech and third-party expertise, it's all discussed with practicality and insight. Whether you're in finance or just curious about the future of corporate sustainability, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways and a unique industry perspective.

So plug in and grab your notepad—it's a conversation you won't want to miss!

Follow the below links to find important information about today's topic:

• A Conference Survival Guide for Introverts
• Meeting Playbook for Introverts: 10 Strategies to Have Your Voice Heard and Your Ideas Shine
• Daily Productivity Hacks for Introverts: Achieve More with Less Stress
• The Introvert’s Edge: 10 Tips for Winning Negotiations

Siqi shares his unique journey from working on Mars rovers to revolutionizing financial planning. Dive into a discussion on the democratization of data, the evolution of finance from a backward-looking to a forward-thinking strategy, and the shortcomings of traditional tools like spreadsheets. This episode is full of compelling insights on making financial models accessible and integrating context seamlessly into complex projects.

Gain practical tips on integrating innovative tech, fostering continuous learning, and upskilling for the evolving landscape. Whether you're curious about AI's potential or seeking new ways to enhance your role, this engaging conversation is packed with inspiration and actionable advice.

Tune in to elevate your accounting game with invaluable insights from Court Watson. Don’t miss out!

We also invite you to listen and subscribe to Deloitte’s Resilient Controller podcast featuring controllers and financial executives who put the attributes of authenticity, determination, trust and grit into action.

Learn how Katrina helps European companies break into the US market affordably and hear about the challenges and rewards of international finance. 🌍💼 From IPOs to using AI tools like ChatGPT, Katrina's approach as a fractional chief accounting officer is full of practical tips and innovative strategies. Plus, hear a fascinating case study where she saved a UK tech firm big bucks!

This episode is a must-listen for finance pros and anyone curious about global business. Tune in for a candid, engaging conversation with one of the industry's brightest minds! 💡📈

We explore the importance of transparency, mission-led organizations, and celebrating achievements to boost morale. Justin's advice on balancing empathy with organizational goals is a must-hear for leaders navigating post-pandemic challenges. Hosted by Adam Larson, this episode is packed with valuable insights on accounting, leadership, and employee engagement. Don't miss it!

Discover Sheila’s top strategies for making networking less intimidating, including her unique plan of connecting with five quality contacts per event. She also offers invaluable tips on maintaining authenticity in personal branding, balancing social media efforts, and the crucial distinction between reputation and brand.

Learn how to build genuine connections, engage thoughtfully on LinkedIn, and offer real value in your professional interactions. Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, Sheila's insights on making networking work for you, understanding thought leadership, and respecting others' time are game-changers.

Tune in and get ready to transform the way you approach networking and personal branding, one meaningful connection at a time.

Rachel emphasizes that everyone makes choices that shape their experiences—whether we realize it or not. Tune in to learn how adopting a leadership mindset, practicing empathy, and embracing curiosity can transform both personal and professional lives. Packed with heartfelt anecdotes and engaging dialogue, this episode promises valuable takeaways for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills and emotional intelligence.

Listen and get inspired to lead your life with intention and awareness! 

Get the scoop on the challenges of ESG reporting, the strategic role of finance in sustainability, and the regulatory complexities of AI and data privacy. Rohit's mix of wit and wisdom offers practical advice for anyone curious about how sustainable practices are reshaping business.

Don't miss this engaging conversation packed with forward-thinking strategies to protect our planet while achieving business success!

Michael also dives into the balancing act between human intuition and machine algorithms in fraud detection, offering practical tips for finance and accounting organizations. Whether you’re curious about AI’s impact on jobs or looking for ways to innovate within your own company, this conversation is packed with insights and real-world examples. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that’s both approachable and enlightening!

Tune in as Nicky discusses the transformative power of authentic storytelling and how meaningful life experiences shape true thought leadership. Discover his motivational stories, like helping entrepreneurs shift their messaging to achieve incredible success and supporting individuals in reaching their dreams.

Feel the emotional impact of Julie's journey—a professional who turned her life around with Nicky’s guidance, leading to personal and financial victories, and even touching her family deeply. Learn what drives Nicky to keep making such a profound difference in people's lives.

If you're looking for inspiration, wisdom, and a hearty dose of authenticity, this episode is not to be missed!

Callum shares his insights on what companies look for in a stellar board member and reveals the real, often hidden, pathways to landing a board seat. From leveraging LinkedIn to setting up advisory boards, Callum offers practical advice on building a compelling personal profile and making valuable connections that can change the trajectory of your career.

Whether you’re an aspiring board member or simply looking to up your professional game, this episode is packed with actionable tips and authentic stories. Don’t miss out on the chance to learn from one of the best in the business. Be sure to check out Callum’s book and connect with him on LinkedIn after you listen!

Tune in as Mike and Adam explore why carbon accounting has become increasingly important for today’s finance professionals and the real-world impact of precise carbon measurement in various industries. Mike shares fascinating stories from the field, the challenges of transitioning from spreadsheets to automated systems, and offers practical advice for small to medium-sized businesses looking to stay ahead in the carbon accounting game.

Get ready for an engaging conversation packed with expert insights, practical advice, and forward-thinking strategies from one of the leading voices in ESG and decarbonization. Whether you’re a seasoned accountant or just curious about the future of sustainable practices, this episode is a must-listen!

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How to transition from referral-based growth to proactive outreach
• Effective techniques to stand out in today's digital marketplace
• The role of AI in enhancing outbound sales efforts
• Strategies for personalizing your message and measuring success

Luke provides real-world examples and actionable steps to help elevate your sales game. Whether you’re an experienced accountant or just starting out, this episode is packed with valuable insights to help you scale your business.

From risk management and fraud reduction to personalization and sentiment analysis, discover how AI can be a game-changer for your business. Plus, learn about the crucial aspects of security, privacy, and bias when implementing AI solutions. Whether you're a business leader, finance professional, or tech enthusiast, you won't want to miss this insightful episode packed with practical takeaways and future-forward thinking.

Tune in and supercharge your understanding of AI's potential in today's dynamic landscape!

In this episode, Jane shares the importance of maintaining accurate and reliable data in today's tech-driven finance landscape. She highlights the tools and techniques that can elevate your data game, including Google Sheets, Microsoft Excel, powerful business intelligence tools like Power BI and Tableau, and the advanced Amazon Quantum Ledger Database.

But that's not all! Jane also touches on the exciting rise of generative AI and its potential impacts on data integrity. Whether you’re a finance professional looking to upskill or just a curious learner, this episode is packed with practical tips and valuable insights. Don’t miss out—tune in and elevate your understanding of data integrity today!

Jean Pierre’s story is filled with insightful anecdotes, hard-earned lessons, and actionable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and tech enthusiasts alike. Tune in to hear about the power of financial literacy, the importance of finding your "why," and navigating the rapidly evolving landscape of digital technology. Whether you're a seasoned business owner or just starting, this episode promises valuable takeaways wrapped in an engaging conversation.

He also offers practical advice on integrating study sessions into a busy schedule, preparing with full-length practice exams, and maintaining a confident mindset. As they discuss everything from pacing during exams to making smart food and drink choices, you'll gain a wealth of knowledge to help you tackle your exams with confidence. Tune in and let Gaby's expertise guide you to exam success!

Count me in listeners can receive a special discount by going to nostorylost.com and entering the code Podcast2024 for 2 free books.  

Dana offers practical advice on preparing for and defending against pressure in the accounting world, while Doug emphasizes the role of emotional intelligence in recognizing and mitigating fraud risks. Discover tips on navigating ethical dilemmas, avoiding common pitfalls, and the importance of skepticism in today's tech-driven landscape. Whether you're an accounting student or a seasoned professional, this episode is packed with valuable insights to enhance your fraud prevention acumen and ensure integrity in your financial reporting. Tune in for a conversation that's both enlightening and essential for anyone in the field of finance and accounting!

As they exchange insights on how artificial intelligence is reshaping the landscape of talent retention and career development, listeners will uncover cutting-edge strategies to stay ahead in an ever-evolving field. This episode is a perfect salute to the day that honors the significance of management accounting, providing actionable intelligence for professionals eager to navigate an AI-driven business environment. Tune in for an engaging conversation that marks International Management Accounting Day with forward-thinking dialogue and expert analysis on the Count Me In Podcast.

Hear how real-time project management and meticulous bookkeeping are game-changers for cash flow and project success. Wingate, with his expertise, also discusses the art of building trust with clients, fostering an environment of truth and growth. Whether you’re navigating the financial underpinnings of your company or looking to streamline communication, this episode offers a treasure trove of insights for business professionals eager to drive their organizations forward.

Nicolas sheds light on practical AI applications, from automating data analysis to revolutionizing customer interactions, and he stresses the importance of upskilling for the digital age. Plus, get a glimpse into the collaborative learning experience offered by the AI Finance Club.

Perfect for finance professionals eager to embrace AI or those fascinated by the evolution of the sector, this episode is packed with actionable insights from a leading expert in the field. Tune in for a riveting conversation that will leave you inspired and ready for the AI era in finance.

Listen in as Chris provides actionable advice for small business owners, breaks down complex financial decisions with ease, and discusses the importance of clear, forward-thinking strategies. From the ethics of managing COVID loans to why saying 'no' to clients can be just as important as saying 'yes,' this episode is packed with golden nuggets of wisdom for anyone looking to navigate the professional landscape with honesty and strategic savvy.

Ellen Class will captivate you with her first-hand experience on enhancing efficiency and revealing the aftereffects, such as boosting work-life balance. Then, Janis Parthun, a maestro of project execution, layers in her expertise on leadership and strategy to paint a full picture of finance transformation.

Whether you’re looking to overhaul your department or just fine-tune it, this episode of Count Me In is brimming with high-impact strategies from RPG's top minds to recharge your financial operations. Tune in for a session full of actionable advice that could set your company on a course for success.

With Linda's and Ai Ling's rich backgrounds at Robert Half, they're here to share expert-level insights into the professional world. From fighting off imposter syndrome with a positive mindset to keeping a professional scrapbook of accomplishments—this chat has it covered. 

We're diving deep into personal branding—not just why it matters, but how to fine-tune it to your professional advancement. Linda and Ai Ling are pros at turning self-doubts into self-assurance—getting real about confidence and growth.

More than just tips and stories, today’s episode is brimming with strategies straight from the offices of career experts. You won't just listen; you'll engage with a conversation that could reshape the way you present yourself and your skills.

Press play and step into a session that's all about empowering your career narrative and shining in your next job interview.

Catch Soufyan live at IMA's European Accounting and Finance Conference in April 2024

Full Transcript:
 < Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Where we bring you compelling stories and insights from the world of accounting and finance. In today's episode, we have a fascinating conversation with Soufyan Hamid, an experienced accounting professional with over 15 years of corporate experience. As the founder of SouFBP, a global consulting firm, Soufyan's expertise lies in helping finance professionals, globally, master the delivery of their presentations by improving their preparation, messaging, and visuals.

Soufyan takes us on his remarkable journey, through the accounting field from his early days at a Big Four firm to becoming a finance business partner. We'll hear about practical strategies for becoming a more effective communicator, and how human skills are more vital than ever, in the age of automation. Let's get started.

< Music >

Soufyan, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to have you. I thought we could start off our conversation by, maybe, you could tell us a little about your journey, in the accounting field, and what initially drew you to the profession?

Soufyan:        Well, it's quite easy because this is basically following the leads, that I started following in my studies in business, finance, and economics. And suddenly I realized that I liked the logic of accounting and the logic of finance. How precise it is, how organized it is to know the debits and the credits from one side. It has to be perfectly equal on both sides, so I liked the logic. And when you are in such an orientation, when you are in your studies, well, it goes quite easy because the Big Four are all over you, even before you end your studies.

And, so, in my last year, I directly signed a contract with PwC, and that's how my accounting career started, basically. And, so, I started as an auditor, working for PwC, and I did that during four years. And I liked that journey because it was an accelerated program, to understand better accounting without having to go through all specializations. You're easily brought into the whole picture, into the helicopter view of a P&L, for example, or a balance sheet.

And, so, I didn't have to go through all the transactions like bookkeeping AP, or AR, or cash, to finally become a general accountant. Thanks to that, after two years, I was already working on analytical reviews of the P&L, and working on the full balance sheet. So it was really a second university, I would say, and I love that.

But since I didn't want to become a public accountant for a living, and I didn't want to end up my career like that, I decided to move. And, at that moment, I was still considering myself as a rookie because you understand a lot of things when you work in audit, but you're still somehow in studies.

And, so, I wanted to face the reality of working in a company. But, obviously, at that time, I didn't have any experience working inside a company. So I decided to join Deloitte in temporary work department, with the business process solution department. And they offered us the possibility to work in accounting, but also controlling treasury, all finance fields, as a temp. Meaning that I had assignments of three months, six months, sometimes, one or two years.

And, so, I had the opportunity to continue learning how to work inside of finance department, under the umbrella of Deloitte. And that was really where I discovered what it was to work in finance. And this is also where I discovered my passion for controlling, FP&A, and finance business partnering.

Adam:            Mh-hmm, I think that's amazing. Because many accountants, whether they go the traditional route, starting at a Big Four like you, or they go right into corporate, right into the finance department, or the internal accounting team. They find themselves, eventually, getting to that point where they're looking at those finance, looking at the FP&A side of things, and being that business partner.

And what are some of the main challenges that you find when you get to that point? Or you've been doing all these things and you get to, "Hey, I'm going to be analyzing this complex data and trying to tell the story." When you're trying to convey these things to people, not even in finance. So you're no longer working with auditing teams or working with accounting teams. You're talking to people who don't understand how it all works. What are some of the biggest challenges that you find, when that happens?

Soufyan:        Well, I found these challenges when I started to work as internal for a company. Because when I left Deloitte, after five years, I decided to join a Belgian Telco company, as a finance business partner, and I was really good, technically.

Technically, I was really good. I was one of the few to master financial modeling. I was one of the few to master Excel, visual basics, Power Pivot, everything, that was, somehow, what made me successful at Deloitte. And I was kind of happy, and in finance, everybody was happy because I developed dashboards, I helped them automate many things.

But when I had to compare how I was welcomed by non-finance people, it's another story. Because I was so convinced that my success would go through the technical stuff, that I completely missed the fact that I was working with people, not mastering the same things as me. And I was there, telling them about the many exceptions you found in the data about I don't know which IFRS rule that made an exception to their figures. Another [Inaudible 00:06:05] that I had to reverse this month because it was too old to be there.

And, so, I had a difficult time having a real partnership with them. And since I was supposed to be a finance business partner, that made it tough. So I thought I was right, and I just understood that when you're working inside a company, and that you leave the world of PwC, of Deloitte, of one of the Big Four, and even one of the consulting firms, you don't have that shield.

You don't have that umbrella anymore, to protect you, and to give you the credibility, you need to convince people. So you have to work on your communication, you have to work on those ...

Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and in today's episode, we're diving into the world of shareholder engagement with Jonathan Smalley, co-founder at Proximity. We'll uncover why strengthening shareholder engagement is more crucial than ever, and why it's imperative for navigating the upcoming political landscape. From climate change to the rising influence of retail shareholders.

We'll explore the global factors impacting shareholder engagement, and the shift towards digitalizing proxy voting. Jonathan shares valuable insights on bridging the gap in shareholder communication, and the potential benefits for organizations. Get ready to gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and opportunities, in shareholder engagement.

< Music >

Adam:            Well, Jonathan, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today. And we're going to be talking about shareholder engagement, which is something not everybody touches, necessarily, but it's a very important part of your organization. Especially if you have a board or shareholders, if you're a public company.

And, so, what makes strengthening shareholder engagement more critical, now than ever, for smoother investor relations. Especially as we're going into 2024 here, as we're recording at the end of 2023. What makes that so important, right now?

Jonathan:       Firstly, thanks for having me, Adam. Yes, I'd say it's more critical than ever, but I'd say it's been critical for quite a long time. But when we look at what's behind us and what's ahead, there are some really big global factors that are not going away. That are continuing to heat things up, I feel like.

I think as we head into 2024, also, it's the biggest political election year, globally, ever. Big elections in the U.S., India, South Korea, Mexico, likely to be one in the United Kingdom. And a lot of the factors, actually, that are going to impact political elections are going to be considerations when people go to the ballot box, are actually also transferable to the boardroom, or to the annual general meeting hall.

Things like climate change is not going to surprise people, but that is something that is extremely topical and is a key part of issuer-shareholder engagement. Just this year, both inside the U.S. and outside, more shareholders' climate proposals than last year.

And there are groups that cite that as financially material to their investment decisions now. And not just people on the street, but powerful, influential, institutional investor groups have got together and made that determination. And they're not just asking issuers and, obviously, the regulators are also calling for disclosures. It's also their service providers that are asking to do more.

They want net zero policies. They want better climate integration into things like voting policies. And another one that's been heating things up for a long time now is Say-on-Pay. 94% now of S&P 1500 companies have a say on pay vote every single year. Ten years ago that would have been about 50%, so it's a big increase. And, I think, this year they, against recommendations from the leading two vote, advisors went down, but less against recommendations. But those resolutions got less support this year than last year.

So that makes those contests quite frequent. And, then, I think, kind of linked to the climate change thing. You've got ESG versus increasing anti ESG, pretty polarized, and I think that's also something. As I sort of mentioned before, is going to also play out in political elections as well, not just in company elections. 

And then I'd say that the big kicker to all of that is that we're just seeing year on year more votes, particularly, more votes from retail shareholders. Institutional shareholder voting has been quite high for a number of years now because of active ownership, because of stewardship codes, because of regulation.

Retail, as a rule of thumb, has always been 20, 25% maybe in a contest a little bit higher than that. So there's clearly much more room for that to go into. And we've got some brokers going, "We're getting 30% a year on year increase." Some retail shared voting, and that's coming at a time where we're going through millennials and Gen Z's inheriting anywhere between $68 to $84 billion. And millennials, at the moment, are the most likely generational group to vote.

So big issues against the backdrop of a great wealth transfer heading into a year that is going to be, probably, more politically charged than any we've seen across all the democratic countries, in the world, that are going to go to the polls. So I think engaging shareholders and having an efficient way for companies and shareholders to communicate back and forth is going to be more important than ever before, just because there's so much more coming. And I think we'll get on to maybe the technology a little bit later.

But if you look at the legacy ecosystem about the way companies and shareholders communicate, we urgently need to upgrade that to deal with this. Because it's a good thing for companies and shareholders to communicate back and forth. We should be allowing it efficiently and digitally. And if we don't, and we're not ready for what's coming, then, there's going to be more negative headlines, I think, for companies to be worried about. As those general meetings debate and have voted on very important decisions for the company.

Adam:            Yes, it's great how you outline all the different political factors. All the things happening around the world, that are causing more and more shareholders to become more engaged. And before we get to the technology piece, maybe, you could elaborate a little more about the importance of that communication between shareholders, in the organization. How it can impact a company's overall performance and even reputation?

Jonathan:       Yes, I mean, starting with the reputational piece, it's probably easier to talk about the downside, sometimes, because, then, that's the thing that creates headlines. It creates headlines when results are challenged. When there's uncertainty about the results. And we saw a fairly infamous case a few years ago at the P&G's meeting, votes counted three times and it was a different result every time. And you're like, "How could that be?"

And that was very expensive, both for the company, it w...

Full Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today's episode is all about company culture. Our guest, Rick Watson, CEO of Protection Point Advisors, founder of the National Referral Network, and an author, is a seasoned leader with a wealth of experiences.

He discusses his journey from working with a large corporation to starting his own firm, and the challenges he faced along the way. We explore concepts like trust compression, the importance of storytelling, and edification and empowering a team. With practical examples and real-world experiences, Rick provides valuable strategies, for creating a purpose-driven, successful organization. Get ready to be inspired and motivated, as we dive into the power of culture and leadership in this insightful, engaging, conversation with Rick Watson.

< Music >

Rick, I'm very excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, and excited to be talking about leadership, and just some of your journey, as well, and what you've learned along the way. And, maybe, we can start off by what inspired you to start your own firm? It's not an easy task to do that. It's not something that people can do lightly. How did you assess your readiness for this entrepreneurial journey?

Rick:               It's funny. I, actually, wanted to be tested. I wanted to be weighed and measured, that was true. And there was a point where I was working for a corporation, every year they would adjust my sales territory, and that drove me nutty. And, so, I would do well, and they would restrict it, if I didn't do as well, they'd increase it. It was really weird. They knew what they wanted to pay me.

So I didn't start going down that road of starting my own firm. But I was happy to work with somebody else, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. I worked with a partner for a long time, and I liked playing second fiddle because, then, I didn't have to have all the attention on me. I could actually just do the work. And there was a point where that partnership fell apart and I had to step up. And I really like being in charge today, I like being the CEO. But it was a transition that took a few years to get there.

Adam:            I can only imagine the transition, especially, if you've always been a company person. You've always not have to make all the decisions. There's a lot of weight that comes with having to make the top-level decision, the top-level strategy. How did you handle adjusting to that weight?

Rick:               Yes, it's funny that you say that. So I always think of someone will be talking about their kid's school, and now their kid just graduated from whatever, and I'm paying for that. Well, I know that in the end analysis, it's our efforts, my decisions, that make that go badly or go well. And you're right, it's an absolute amount of weight all the time.

On the other hand, I like taking care of people. And, so, you do that at home, you take care of your family. And, yes, I suppose it's more weight, it's more responsibility, those people depend on you. And, so, I just have a really big family, it seems like, anymore.

Adam:            Yes, I like that. Seeing them as your family because it's no longer just numbers or people who work for you or say, "Oh, I have this many people." It's like, "No, that person has a name. They have a family themselves, they have a life, as opposed, to just looking at the bottom line."

Rick:               Yes, I think that there is a management school of thought that says that's a bad idea. I disagree. I think that loyalty and culture is part of a company, and that you don't have to turn over people all the time… I just think that there's a school of thought that you can turn over people, and I think that if you don't turn over people, they're so much more profitable. It's a good business decision to hold on to people, and part of that is to build culture and relationships with them.

Adam:            No, that's great, and when you mentioned things like loyalty, it makes me think of trust. And one of the concepts you mentioned in your book, A Firm Worth Building, is trust compression. And when people hear that, they're like, "What does that mean? I don't get it." Unless they've read your book, they may not understand it. So I was thinking maybe you could talk about what trust compression is, and how important it is in leadership.

Rick:               The trust compression it's kind of funny, it's something that we bumped into. It wasn't on purpose. I think that there should be a university study about that. But, effectively, what happens is that people, humans, don't make decisions about how much they trust somebody based on the length of their interactions. It's based on the number of interactions.

And, so, doing those appointments, we were doing appointments, in my industry, the typical appointment goes for 60 to 90 minutes. You do two of those, an opening appointment and a closing appointment. It turns out that if you break that into four appointments, at 15 to 20 minutes apiece, which is way more efficient. Trust that you'll build in that relationship is so much more significant.

And, so, what I'm telling businesses that we work with is that it's a really good idea. If you can break your process up into smaller, bite-sized bits, the people will remember more, and your relationship will be older in a shorter amount of time. It's pretty cool.

Adam:            That does sound pretty cool. One thing that I tried doing was setting my default, in Outlook, to 25 minutes and 50 minutes. Never doing a full hour and never doing a half hour. Because I felt like we would go up until that time, gave ourselves no time for break, but, then, also we'd spend too much time doing other things. How do you still get as so much accomplished by breaking those meetings up? How does that, positively, impact the conversation?

Rick:               Each one of those conversations is, in a sense, scripted, we know where we're at. I think that so much of business conversations are wasted energy. They do the relating, which we would call relating, I talk about it in the book. Which is that first part of like, "Oh, how was...

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Today we have a special episode of Count Me In called IMA Life. We're going to start talking to different management accountants, from IMA, and hear their journey. Today we sat down with Norman Strauss, a veteran in the accounting profession, with over 60 years of experience. We chat about Norm's beginnings. Sharing stories from his early days in accounting. Navigating the challenges posed by technological advancements, and the significant role mentors have played in his career.

Norm provides insights in his involvement with various committees, and sheds light on the complex process of setting accounting standards. With a dash of humor and a plethora of wisdom, Norm shares valuable insights in his impressive journey. So tune in, for an episode brimming with decades of experience and invaluable insights.

< Music >

Adam:            Well, Norm, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast, on our new IMA Life series, and you've had quite the career. And could you start, maybe, by sharing a memorable story of your early days, in your career. Maybe some challenges that you had, as you just got started in accounting?

Norman:        Well, thanks for having me, and it has been a long career. I was 36 years with the Financial Reporting Committee, of the IMA, and I also was in public accounting for many years. And if you add it all up, it's about 60 years' worth of doing things in the accounting profession, which I've always felt is a tremendous profession. And I think there's lots and lots of opportunities for people that are getting into accounting. 

You start at a beginning position. You work your way up, if you keep working hard, you get challenges throughout your whole career and tremendous opportunities to continue with dancing. So I'm very pleased that I went into accounting, even though it's a long time ago. And I've finally gotten to the end of my career with the Financial Reporting Committee, after those 36 years. So it is nice to keep going, and it's a pleasure to be here today with you.

Adam:            Well, I can imagine just the things you've seen in a 60-year career. That's some people's lifetimes and more than their lifetimes. And just thinking about everything you've seen, how do you think accountants are handling the changes? Because in the last ten years alone, the amount of technology changes that have happened across the world, the industries, has just been remarkable. And I'm sure the first part of your career, the technology was changing but not as rapidly as it's happening today.

Norman:        It is a real challenge for people in the field, now. In my day, we didn't have computers; and it was nice, and slow, and worksheets, and you did everything in pencil. And now with all the technology, it's a terrific opportunity to get involved with all of these different things. So depending upon where you're working, hopefully, as you're moving along in your career path, the company that you're in will give you a lot of background, but a lot of training, and a lot of people that you'll be able to learn these things from. And that's one good thing about the profession, it's not stagnant. You have these changes. So there's always something new, and always something that's interesting that's happening 

Now, I go all the way back in the beginning, and one thing I always felt that helped my career was luck. It was always nice when good things happened to you. So I started at Baruch College and I was going for my master's degree, and I took a course on contemporary accounting topics, with a professor by the name of Abraham Briloff, and I'd never heard of him before. But as it turns out, I found out that he's one of the most famous professors, at the time, and he was a tremendous critic of the accounting profession.

So I went into the first day of class and he said, who am I? And I said, "I'm Norman Strauss."

And he said, "You go sit in the front row," rather, and that's where he pointed. But I didn't want to sit in the front row. So when he wasn't looking, I went all the way to the back of the classroom. And then he started talking, and I'd never heard a professor like this before. I mean he was using big words, complicated accounting theories that he's imposing on everybody. He was even so interesting that he was making quotes to accounting in the Bible, which was not easy to do.

So I was amazed, and he was really critical of the accounting profession. And, all of a sudden, the student who was sitting where I was supposed to sit, up front said, "Professor Briloff, I have to object to your criticism of the accounting profession." And then this young fella articulately explained why the accounting profession is really good, and basically disagreed with the discussion that he was giving us.

So Professor Briloff said, "That was a wonderful explanation, Strauss." So he thought that I was still upfront, that he had my name mixed up. And the next week I got there very early and I sat in that seat, and it worked out very nicely. The rest of the semester he kept smiling at me, so that's kind of luck.

But then getting into public accounting, when you start at the very beginning, in the old days, you had the interesting title of a junior accountant. And that, of course, was not particularly complementary.

But after a while, if you worked hard, you became what was then called a semi senior accountant, which was even worse, and eventually you made senior accountant. And I remember in those days, when I started as a junior accountant, you really had to worry that you'd get fired after the busy season. I know cycles come and go. Now, we read a lot about firms letting go off people, but that's the nature of the profession. Everybody needs accountants in business, and therefore the opportunities are unlimited.

So, anyway, I was worrying about getting let go right after the tax season. And I confided with a semi senior, who I was reporting to, and, to me, he was so smart, he knew everything. And I told him, "I'm really worried that I think I'm going to be let go."

And he said, "Norm, don't worry, you're really doing fine."

And then the next day, I went to work and I found out that he got fired. So that was an interesting challenge. But if you keep doing your thing, learning from the people that you work with, you could keep advancing up the ladder.

Adam:            I think that's some great advice. As I've read about your story and chatted with you, mentors have held an important part of your career. Maybe you can talk a little bit about the different mentors you've had and how they've helped you move alo...

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In this episode, we have the privilege of interviewing Yerbol Orynbayev. Who shares his extraordinary leadership journey, and the impactful lessons he's learned. Yerbol's experiences range from serving as Deputy Prime Minister of Kazakhstan, to transforming the Jusan Bank from near bankruptcy to achieving $1.2 billion in profit.

Throughout the episode, Yerbol sheds light on the crucial decisions and strategies that were pivotal in leading the bank to success. His insightful advice on leadership, vision, investing in people, and embracing failures provides valuable lessons for aspiring leaders. Join us as Yerbol shares his invaluable wisdom and experiences, on navigating crisis and driving change.

< Music >

Yerbol, we're really excited to have you on the podcast. I'm just really excited to chat with you, about your leadership journey and the different paths you've taken, and you've had quite the leadership journey. What drew you to the different positions that you've taken, and what are some of the lessons you've learned along the way?

Yerbol:           Adam, first of all, thank you very much for this opportunity to share my experience about Jusan Bank story, with you, with your program. I worked for the government of Kazakhstan for quite a long time. I resigned in 2015. Before that time, before my resignation, I served as the deputy prime minister and handled economic and then social responsibilities. And, so, in 2018, when I was already with the private sector, working on my own business. I received an invitation from the university, which asked me to help them to set up the investment division of the endowment fund.

So it was a very exciting proposal. I believe they decided to focus on me and then send this invitation to me because during my time with the government, I served as a board member of the National Bank of Kazakhstan. The board member of the Agency for Supervision of the financial organizations. I also, successfully, set up a western-type university in Kazakhstan. So a lot of people knew me very well. So they said, "Okay, why not, after one successful story, one successful project, let's offer him this opportunity."

So in 2018, I started this journey, the Jusan Bank with other banks, and I had this great opportunity to create the investment division of the endowment fund. So that's how I started this particular journey with the Jusan Bank, with its restructuring, creating a new business model based on the ecosystem.

In terms of the lessons, actually, it was very interesting and enriching experience. I learned very valuable lessons. One of them is that you should really understand your business, and then your customers. And, then, currently, there is a great shift, all over the world, in terms of the customers' behavior. New technologies like AI, digitalization, increased computational capacities, and also the new generation of customers, they have completely different preferences. So these two trends kind of changed the whole landscape. 

So you have to understand your clients, you have to understand your business within/out, know your customers. Because if you don't know you cannot lead, and you cannot restructure or do some right things without this really deep knowledge and understanding the main foundations of your business. 

The second lesson I would say that, dream big. What I learned, in reality, with great vision, with the right team, with the right strategy, with the right implementation plan, you can achieve a lot. So dreaming big it's very important. 

The third lesson I would say that always have an exit strategy, especially when you're dealing with the big structures. Together, the whole system, I managed about 10,000 employees. So this is quite big, the price of the mistake could be very high, but you cannot stop development. You have to still innovate. You still should align your business, product, services, in line with the current demands.

So you should innovate, you should do something new, but exit strategy is very important. This is your hedge, that makes sure that the whole structure won't collapse if something goes wrong, this is very important. 

Trust your team, I think team is very important. The quality of the people you are working with, their professionalism, their ethics are very important. So as soon as you set up your team, you know that you can trust your people, just let them perform. And in the banking sector, this is more important than even others because teamwork is incredible, this is very important.

I didn't see a person who can just, in one phase, cover all requirements of the banking. You need a strong CFO, you need a strong risk manager, you need a strong chief information officer, so you see this is very complex. Then you can, together, compile the team, or the professionals, who can work together, who can share the same vision, who has very good ethics, only with this one you can proceed.

So this is a very important lesson. If you are unsure about your team, don't start. Because alone you cannot perform, you cannot achieve. So I would say these are very important lessons I learned from my journey with Jusan.

Adam:            I think those are some amazing lessons. And maybe as we have this conversation, we'll be able to see how you came to those lessons at Jusan, as we talk through that journey. So when you first stepped into that challenge, they said, "Hey, we want to bring you on the Jusan Bank." What was the atmosphere like? What were some of the challenges and the immediate hurdles that you saw that you had to jump over, as you started that new part of your journey?

Yerbol:           This, actually, was very interesting. So when I took the reins of the bank, the situation was pretty horrible. So I had a feeling like starring into the beast. I just give you one example. The bank's auditors, KPMG, they came to us, after we purchased the bank, and then told us that they won't be able produce any audit report.

They said, "We have access to the accounts, but the accounts are a mess, documentation is such a mess, so we just even cannot interpret them." And the bank did not have people who can interpret and work on this one. So can you imagine?

So 2018, the year they audited, was completely a failure, and according to the regulation you still proceed because the public, the regulator, would like to know. So this is one of the example how the bank was managed. Also in terms of the business and the morale of the employees, it was a complete mess. Two year...

Listen in as they discuss the impact of digital tech, COVID-19, and sustainability on financial strategies, the importance of people skills, and the rise of data analytics in decision-making. Ahmed backs up the talk with his journey in embracing change, leveraging automation for insightful analysis, and his advocacy for continuous learning through the IMA.

This episode offers a treasure trove of knowledge for finance professionals looking to adapt to the evolving demands of the industry. If you're curious about the future of financial strategy or keen on understanding the shifting focus in finance, this conversation is your must-listen. So sit back, tune in, and get inspired to take on the financial world with a fresh, informed perspective!

Full Episode Transcript:
 < Intro >

Adam:            Hello, and welcome to Count Me In. I'm Adam Larson, and today I'm joined by a distinguished guest, Ahmed Hassan, Head of Decision Support at Vodafone, Global Board Director & Middle East Committee Chair at IMA. In this episode, we'll dive into how financial leaders are expanding their influence beyond traditional roles, and embracing strategic, data-driven decision-making amidst global changes and technological advancements.

Staying ahead of the curve and fostering continuous learning have been key to navigating the landscape of finance. A world now permeated by AI, automation, and the need for dynamic skill sets. So, without further ado, let's welcome Ahmed, to share his valuable insights with us here on Count Me In.

 < Music >

Ahmed, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited to have you today, talking about FP&A, and the roles, and your experience. And to start off, I thought we could start with how has the role of financial leadership evolved, as you look over the past decades. And what are the driving forces behind those changes, in the financial leadership?

Ahmed:          So, thank you, Adam. First of all, thank you for having me today. I'm very looking forward for a very engaging and exciting discussion, so thank you for that. Thank you for the question to start with, this is a very in-time question. So as the finance roles are evoluting, and it's not only on the last decade. So I think finance roles are evoluting since almost 20 years, as we speak. So it's undergoing significant changes that is taking place in the finance role as we speak. 

This is turning the finance function from the one responsible for financial reporting, and forecasting, and the normal finance roles that used to be. To the one co-driving organizations to achieve their goals and targets. So, currently, finance leaders spend more than 50% of their time on value-adding, business partnering activities. Rather than a typical finance department role and what they used to do, a few years ago.

So now we give more focus on casting a wider net for new efficiency opportunities, as we go. Boosting finance roles in managing data, strengthening decision-making process, through widespread adoption of data visualization and data analytics.

So this is how we look into how we use that data that we have, as we speak. It's mainly for putting a very solid ground into the decision-making and driving business, as we go. And the role of finance leadership is evoluting as well as this is evoluting. So the finance leadership has been influenced by several global forces, as we speak.

So definitely with all what happened in the past few years, in terms of COVID, where we will touch base a lot on the impact of COVID and how this evoluted. The overall changes that took place in organizations and then zooming into finance in specific. And also all the changes that is taking place in the world, either from a geopolitical viewpoint, economical, and all other changes.

So there are several global forces that are impacting the finance role evolution, including the growth of digital technologies. All the changes that I just mentioned. The importance of sustainability, changing demographics, complexities that are taking place in the geopolitics, as I mentioned, and all the dependencies that are making transformation or structural transformation a must, during these times.

All these forces actually led to all the evolution that is taking place in the finance role and in the finance leadership role, as a result, as well. So this all led to a greater focus on collaboration and people-oriented leadership. As well as the need for managers to take important decisions, with input from their teams based on a very robust data analytics that is generated from the finance functions.

Adam:            I think that's a really good overview in the evolution of the finance leadership, and how the team is changing as the environment changes. And when you think about the environment changing, and the term a lot of people use is business partner. And, so, in order to do that transformation that you just talked about, you have to become that business partner.

And, so, are there key strategies that people should consider when they're trying to, "Hey, I want to become that business partner. I don't think I'm there, yet." What are some strategies that they can apply in their own roles, so that they can make sure they're becoming that? 

Ahmed:          Okay, so transitioning, which comes also as a result of what we mentioned, the evolution that took place in finance. So finance, as we speak, in different roles, are business partners. And this is not only in a function that is named business partner or decision support in finance. I think this is across all finance roles. So this will take place in FP&A, as an evolution of the role.

Definitely in all decision support roles and finance business partnering roles, in different areas of finance operations, treasury, tax, supply chain. So this is all different types of business partnering in finance. If we need to focus on what are the key skills or developments, that a finance guy should adopt to be a business partner. We can start focusing on some points. So building a strategic engagement with the business. So this is a key thing that has to take place in a finance role.

Building strong relationships with all stakeholders, is fundamental to effective engagement with different business functions. Spending time to know your stakeholders, understanding their priorities, and be ready to challenge points they may not have considered, or maybe it's not a focal point for them. While actually it's something risky that you need to highlight.

Ensuring that analysis and reporting provided is aligning to the key strategic directions that the stakeholders need to see, and not only what is accessible and meaningful to finance specific. So it's that perfect merge between finance and all the other business requirements ...

Full Episode Transcript:
 < Intro> 

Adam:            Welcome to another insightful episode of Count Me In. Today, we're delving into the topic of building a data-driven culture with our esteemed guest, Connie Siu, President of CDC Synectics Incorporated, and an accomplished author. Join us, as Connie shares her expertise on essential elements of data-driven culture within an organization, and the significant impact it has on today's business environment.

Stay tuned, as we explore key challenges faced during the transition, and gain valuable insights on assessing the effectiveness of a data-driven culture. This episode promises to offer valuable insights, into the power of data-driven decision-making in shaping organizational cultures and driving business success. Let's get started.

< Music >

Well, Connie, we want to thank you so much for coming back on the Count Me In podcast. And, today, we're going to be talking about data-driven culture and what that means. And, so, maybe, we can start off, you can elaborate what constitutes having a data-driven culture within an organization, and why is it essential, especially, in business today?

Connie:           That's a great start, Adam. Data-driven culture is the consistent values and beliefs in distilling insights from data to drive informed decision making, and that's happening across the whole organization. And I would offer three characteristics that you can look for, in an organization, where there's a data-driven culture. The first one is you will see individuals and teams actively asking themselves questions like, "What information we can draw on to support and guide decisions."

You will see consistent efforts devoted to pull relevant data to analyze an issue. And you will see open and frank dialogues on understanding the root cause of a problem by looking closely at KPIs.

In terms of why it is essential for businesses today, there are four factors, two external and two internal, that are important to bear in mind. The first external factor is the competitive marketplace. Companies need focused strategies to target the right markets, to differentiate themselves to compete, and they need the market intelligence to develop focused strategies.

The second external factor is digital transformation. The ability to adopt the right technologies to drive business outcomes is critical. Successful digital transformation involves using technology to capture relevant data and analyze the results. To automate processes, for instance, companies need to know what data is important and what's not.

The internal factors: The first one is operational efficiency. Businesses need to be efficient today, and we are aware that costs are going up, labor, materials. And with the current inflation, companies need to have a good handle on the numbers.

The second internal factor is the need to treat data as a strategic asset. Every business has tons of data. Imagine if you can mine the data for intelligence, they will uncover lots of opportunities to make all kinds of improvements, such as targeting high-margin niche markets. So these four factors require an appreciation of making smart choices from data analytics. It is more important than ever, to build a data-driven culture.

Adam:            Yes, I think those are some great factors to take into consideration, especially, if you recognize that your organization doesn't have that data-driven culture. Maybe we can talk about some key challenges that organizations face when they're trying to transition to that. Because it's not something that happens overnight, something that you can turn a switch and say, "Hey, we're a data-driven culture." It's something that builds over time, I'm sure.

Connie:           Yes, there are two key challenges I'd like to share. The first one is the lack of technical capabilities. And when I say technical capabilities, they include the skills to identify what data, or KPIs, are relevant to look at. They include skills to analyze the numbers. For instance, how do you know you have achieved efficiency improvement?

What would you look at to monitor process performance?

Do you want to look at the results on a weekly basis or it makes better sense to compare month-over-month changes? And there are many data points you can look at, but not all of them are relevant.

Once you have the data, you need the tools to capture, compile, and analyze them. And many companies are still using legacy systems that are not integrated. So it is a tedious and often very frustrating exercise to extract the data.

And to overcome that lack of technical capabilities, start with training. Training the fundamental skills on asking good questions to identify what data do we need to look at. Training on the skills to analyze an issue. And I would suggest training everyone from the executives to people working on the front line.

We don't need to train everyone to be a data scientist, but we do need them to have the basic skills to ask good questions. To understand what they need to look at, and become good problem solvers. And in terms of the legacy systems, there's only so much you can do patching them. Eventually, you need to invest in modern technologies, and there are so many options out there today, and there's no need, and I want to emphasize this, it's not necessary to invest in the most comprehensive ERP. The key is to find the right applications that meet your business needs.

Now, the second challenge I'd like to talk about is the lack of buy-in. When you don't have the support of the senior management team and the middle managers, it is very difficult to make that shift.

Now, middle managers are accountable for the team's performance. So that fear of poor results is natural because they reflect on their leadership skills, and no one wants to look bad.

When middle managers shy away from results reporting, they tend to do the minimal, just what is needed. Essentially they create an alignment where there's little incentive for the team to embrace analytics.

Now, when we look at the senior management team, when there's no buy-in, from them, on analytics, you tend to see an authoritative management style. Top-down decisions will become directives for the teams to execute. And in this situation, the efforts made on analytics are not valued at all.

To overcome the lack of support, start with understanding what the dynamics is today and find your champion. That champion could ...

Full Episode Transcript:
 < Intro >

Adam:            Greetings, accounting professionals. Adam Larson here, host of Count Me In, and today we embark on a transformative journey with Adam Lean, the visionary CEO of TheCFOProject.com.

Prepare to break free from the shackles of the accountants' trap. A pervasive challenge that confines so many to a transactional purgatory. In this conversation, Adam unveils a potent cocktail of liberation, strategic transformation, technology-driven empowerment, and high-value service mastery. So join us on this first podcast of 2024, and together, let's rewrite the future of accounting, one empowered professional at a time.

< Music >

Well, Adam, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast. And you are the leader at The CFO Project, and you have a podcast called the Accountants Trap, and you mention that a lot. Maybe you can start by defining what is the accountants' trap, and why is it a challenge for many firm owners today?

Adam Lean:   Yes, that's a great question. We have this saying here at The CFO Project, we want accountants to escape what we call the accountants' trap. The idea is that accountants, and when I say accountants I mean accountants, CPAs, bookkeepers, enrolled agents. Traditionally, accountants are trading time for money. In order to make more money they either have to work more hours, which there's, obviously, not many more hours you can work, or you have to take on more clients. 

Well, the thought of taking more clients on, in order to make more money is depressing to a lot of accountants. Because most clients are high-demanding, low-paying clients, and they give you all their paperwork at the very last minute, and the idea of taking on more clients is not appealing to most people. And it's a trap because you can't raise your prices. You can't raise your prices because there's always another accountant that's willing to do it cheaper than you.

And if you think about it from the viewpoint of your client, and we have to always think about it from the viewpoint of our clients. On the laundry list of things that a business owner has to think about, during the day, accounting falls towards the bottom.

They think of accounting as a commodity, in a sense. It's like a gas station; you're driving down the road and there are two gas stations next to each other, one is $0.50 higher. Most people are probably not going to go to that gas station because they view fuel as a commodity, it's interchangeable. And the same thing with accounting and bookkeeping services.

What you do, A, they really don't understand, and, B, they feel that any accountant can do it. Any accountant could put the tax return together. Any accountant can do the books. So why would they pay you more, significantly more, than the average accountant? They wouldn't.

And, so, this is the trap; to make more money you're forced to work more hours for little pay, with high-demanding clients. And, so, we suggest that there's a better way.

Adam:            I would hope so because, that would be really frustrating as time goes on, and to have to get more clients. And if you're an internal accountant, within a corporation, you have to help all the different operations of the business to get everything together, do the budget, and that can bring a different type of accountants' trap challenge.

Adam Lean:   Yes, absolutely, your candle is burning at both ends, and there's no give.

Adam:            Yes, there's no give at all. So how important is it? Because, like you said, a lot of times for owners, they don't understand the importance of the accountant. How do you change that role for the business owner, if you are the CFO, if you're the controller, you're within the organization, and you're trying to say, "Hey, this is an important part." How do you help change that view, at the top of the organization?

Adam Lean:   Yes, this is the frustrating part because accountants are very valuable, they're needed. But the people that use accountants; so the company you work for or your client, if you have a business, and if you work for clients, they don't view it that way. Which, again, goes to what I was talking about with the accountants' trap. They don't view what you do as important as they should. Having great books is important, it's needed. And what you do to ensure that the books are kept accurately and timely, and the taxes are filed, is very important. 

But until your client, whether it's your boss or whether it's your actual clients, business owner clients, until they view you and your work as highly valuable, they're not going to pay for that. So the idea is to shift in your client's mind, in your constituent's mind, your value.

So instead of being thought of as the person that just keeps the books or that just does the taxes. Because you have to remember that your client doesn't really understand what you do. You know what you do, and so you know all the effort and time and energy you pour into it, but they don't. So they're not going to place the value on it as much. 

But if they can wrap their mind around your value, then, they will find you more valuable. Which means they'll pay you more and you can escape the trap. So the idea is to be the financial professional, in your client's life, that they actually want. And what is it that most business owners want? They want someone that they can trust, to tell them what to do to have a growing and successful business.

So if you, as the accountant, can be that person that a client trusts to tell them what to do. To give advice on something that they really care about, which is their business, then, your stock with them will go dramatically up.

They'll pay you as much as you command, as much as you want, and they will not think of you as just the person that records the books or just this commoditized, necessary evil that I've got to pay. And they'll start to view you as somebody that's a trusted confidant, an advisor, somebody they want to talk to every month.

Adam:            Yes, that advisor, the term that we use a lot is that business partner. You want to be that business partner, not just the number cruncher.

Adam Lean:   That's right. You'll still provide the same value, that in your mind they need, which is accurate books, taxes. But you're going to shift the value in your client's mind. Which, I mean, let's be honest, it's really the only thing that matters is your client perception of you. That's what's going to pay the bills. If you...

In this episode, Sunil shares his distinctive perspective on sustainable finance’s competitive edges, such as improved global market access and cost of capital benefits. Sandhya, on the other hand, offers a deep dive into the real-world applications of ESG strategies within large organizations, while addressing the intricate issues surrounding ESG disclosure transparency.

With this powerhouse duo, you're privy to a rich discussion that spans everything from the transformative ESG initiatives at Narayana Health to the visionary roadmap laid out for sustainable finance under India's G20 presidency.

Don’t just listen, be part of this enlightening session. Whether you're a CFO grappling with ESG strategy, or simply intrigued by the evolution of sustainable business practices, this is an unmissable dialogue loaded with experience and insight. Plug in and join us for a compelling narrative where finance and responsibility converge.

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into a topic that's reshaping the corporate landscape in India, ESG, or Environmental, Social, Governance, factors and their growing influence. We have two esteemed guests joining us. First, Sunil Deshmukh, who is IMA's chair-elect and an expert with over 30 years of global experience in business management. Also, we have Sandhya Sriram, the group's CFO for Narayana Health, and she is among India's top 100 women in finance.

In this episode, we're not only looking at the current regulations and the evolution of reporting requirements. But also how Indian markets are responding to the pressing need for ESG integration in risk management and long-term sustainability. Sunil will highlight the rewards tied to sustainable finance, has enhanced global reputation and reduced capital costs. While Sandhya will shed light on the practical challenges and opportunities like achieving transparency in ESG disclosure, and leveraging sustainable solutions through startups.

Get ready to impact the complexities and innovations within the world of ESG, with insights from the CFO's desk. As the G20 turns its eyes to India for sustainable finance directives, we, too, focus on how Indian companies can translate these directives into competitive advantages. Let's get started.

 
 < Music >

Sandhya and Sunil, I'm so excited to have you both on the podcast, today, as we talk about ESG, and especially ESG in the Indian market. And to just jump right into the conversation, how would you describe the importance of ESG integration, within financial strategies for companies operating in the Indian market?

Sunil:              Thank you very much, Adam. A great question, very relevant question to the Indian market conditions. Before we get into the formal discussion, I would say that the concept of triple bottom line was already existing in the world before ESG, which was coined by John Elkinton in 1994. Where we used to talk about 3P's, Profit, People, and Planet. I would say that ESG is a formal expansion of that concept, which has come into the existence.

Now, ESG is in existence in India, I would say right from 2011. Indian Companies Act Department or, Ministry of Corporate Affairs, as well as the Securities and Exchange Board of India, have been coming out with different regulations, different advisories, guidelines, and some reporting requirements by Securities and Exchange Board of India, on this topic. 

Now, you asked me the question about the importance of ESG in financial strategies. I would say that in today's world, almost all companies in their financial strategies start with a concept of risk management first. And when we talk about the risk management, one of the most important strategy that comes is the sustainability. Whether your business is going to be sustained for a longer period of time or not. And there comes the ESG, which is of course sustainability pertaining to environment, risk relating to the environment, risk relating to the social, which is typically the people. And, of course, the governance, which is more of a compliance risk based on the requirements of the stock market or government regulations, and all those things. 

So I would say that most of the companies start with integrating the ESG in their risk management strategy, and from there they take it. And, in today's world, ESG has become very important not only from a financial strategy point of view or a business strategy point of view, but also accessibility to the capital. If you want to access the capital at the world level or global market, and if you want to have a cheap capital or affordable capital as compared to the market prices, I think sustainability and ESG is going to play a very important… 

ESG strategy integrated into a financial strategy, will help the companies have a competitive advantage as compared to their competitors. It will also help the companies to have a long-term sustainability strategy. And we also talk in finance domain, that every single business is supposed to have a going concern concept or is a perpetual continuation.

So from that point of view, ESG will help companies to look into, naturally, how long the business strategy is going to sustain and stabilize. So long-term aspect of ESG is also going to help the companies in their financial strategy.

Other small things, or other very important but small things, which are helping companies due to ESG is talent retention. The today's generation Z employees, they don't want to work for companies which are not following the people strategies or governance strategies. So talent acquisition and talent retention is one area.

I would say supply chain resilience. In today's world, the Indian companies use global supply chain. We import a lot of raw material. So if we have a sustainability strategy, in the global supply chain, that's also going to help the companies. And, obviously, the last but not the least is the stakeholder engagement. 

And when I say stakeholder engagement, it could be your customers, it could be your suppliers, it could be your employees, it could be government, a municipal corporation, and, of course, shareholders, investors of the company. All these stakeholders are looking at ESG as a strategy from a long-term continuity, as well as comprehensive success formula for the company.

Adam:            Now, I think that's an amazing overview of where to look at things from a 10,000-foot point of view, to see how everything's working within the organization. Now, Sandhya, as a CFO, how do you perceive your role changing and developing, especially, as you try to implement these strategies and some of the things that Sunil talked about?

Full Episode Transcript:
 < Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we have a special guest, finance expert Tony Klimas. Joining us for an insightful discussion on the future of finance. Tony has 25 years of consulting experience that he brings to his role, as President for Horvath, USA.

In this episode, we'll be exploring the evolve role of the CFO, the impacts of technology and innovation, and the ethical considerations in the ever-changing financial landscape. Tony provides valuable insights on managing stakeholder interests, fostering innovation, and addressing the challenges brought on by automation. Join us as we explore the complexities of the industry, and gain expert perspectives on what lies ahead.

 < Music >

Adam:            Tony, we're really excited to have you on the podcast today, and I just want to thank you so much for coming. And as we get started, how do you envision the role of the CFO changing by 2025 and beyond, in the context of an evolving financial landscape?

Tony:              Hi, Adam. Thanks, it's great to be here. And what a great, first question because that is what's happening today. And I think it's been happening really, probably, for the last 10 or 15 years. If we can define sort of a computing age turning into a digital age, somewhere, maybe around 2010 or so, the early part of this century. And CFOs have been dealing with that ever since, and they're going to continue to deal with it.

In fact, oftentimes, when I talk to clients, I like to remind them that we're in the early days of this digital age. It's like the early days, in the late 1940s, when computers were still powered by vacuum tubes and they filled an entire room. The changes and the advances are happening so quickly, and they're going to accelerate. And I think CFOs, on the one hand, it's a great time to be a CFO because you're watching all these fantastic, incredible things happening. But it also presents a lot of challenges. 

And the one thing I would say that's changing the most for CFOs, is their job is becoming incredibly more complex than it ever was in the past. And you see this when you look at the organizations of large companies. For example, the Chief Accounting Officer, for a large part of my career in finance and accounting, I didn't really see chief accounting officers. It was usually just a CFO and a controller.

Now it's very common to have both a controller, a CAO, a VP of finance who's in charge of the forecasting and planning process, and, then, of course, the CFO. and you might even have other folks; elevate, investor relations, and you'll often even have a digital person in there somewhere. 

So the role is becoming more complex. Who the CFO surround themselves with is becoming more important. And I think a lot of them, especially, the ones who don't quite see that coming, are struggling. Because it's just so much more to handle than they ever had to handle in the past.

Adam:            And you can't talk about the future and where things are going, without hearing the terms AI, and machine learning. And it's funny because if you ask somebody who knows about those things, they're like, "Well, artificial intelligence and machine learning have been around for a long time." But it's advancing more and more and more. Do you think that what jobs and roles, within finance, are going to become obsolete because of those things? Because they're advancing so much, that it will be taking people's jobs?

Tony:              Yes, it is a good point. As an undergrad, I was actually a math major, and I actually took some courses in neural networks, and some of the probabilities that are being used in some of these algorithms. And a lot of the math hasn't really changed that much, but how we apply the math and then, of course, the computing power is what has really created this environment now. 

Where we have all this new technology that both mimics intelligence, that would be AI. And, then, of course, machine learning is machines that are getting smarter, as they learn from their mistakes and then apply those, again, in an algorithm.

And, so, I think what's changing most, from a CFO perspective, is it is having a huge impact on the finance and accounting organization in the way we work and the work we do. In the same way that the pandemic impacted the way we hold meetings. And the way we now do things, virtually, the way we work. These technologies in accounting, and a lot of people are still trying to figure them out.

And, this is my opinion here, but I think one of the ways that's very important to think about these technologies is they're not just side thing. A lot of people are really enamored with some of these Internet tools. Where they can type a question into Chat GPT and get an answer. 

Yes, that's interesting, and it can produce an interesting answer. But the reality, the real value of these tools, is when we embed them into the technology stack, and we start to use them for both decision support, and to give us better insights than we had in the past. And when we start to do that, then we unlock the value of our data and they start to become super valuable for us.

And, sure, we're using them to automate things like the closing process. Last week I was with the folks from BlackLine, at their annual user conference. They focus heavily on AI and machine learning, and that's going to impact the organization. So they is a people side of this, and I think we're going to talk about that some today. 

But then there's also a capability side. And if you can get the capability ahead of your competition, you can really get an advantage in the marketplace, from these technologies. But it has to be embedded, and it has to really be part of the fabric of how you operate, it can't be a side thing. In that case, it's more of a toy, to me, than something really useful.

Adam:            Yes, it really is a toy. Now, there was a stat that I read in your white paper, The Finance 2025. That said that 87% of CFOs surveyed see an increase in process automation as a key goal. What are some of the opportunities there, for CFOs as they're looking to the future?

Tony:              Well, if ...

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we have a fantastic guest joining us, Andrew Jamison, CEO and co-founder of Extend. A fintech platform that enables virtual card and spend management capabilities for small businesses. 

We'll be exploring how small to medium-sized businesses can leverage these innovative solutions, to reshape the financial landscape. Andrew will share valuable insights on the importance of embracing fintech technologies and how they can drive efficiency and growth. From the power of data and open APIs to the role of big partners in mitigating risks. 

Andrew will guide us through the key factors and success stories of implementing fintech solutions. Plus, we'll explore the future of AI, and machine learning, and finance, and the skills finance professionals should cultivate for continued relevance. So, let's get started.

< Music >

Andrew, I'm so glad to have you on the Count Me In podcast, today. We're excited to have you here, and we're going to be talking about fintech, and different solutions, especially, in the realm of small to medium-sized businesses. To jump right in, how do you think that the fintech solutions are reshaping the financial landscape, especially for small and medium-sized businesses? And why is it crucial for them to embrace these technologies?

Andrew:         Look, I think we're continuing down a really exciting journey, actually. Where the prevalence of data, and the ability and accessibility of technology means that we're finding more and more verticalized solutions. Which helps on two fronts; one, on the one hand, it means if I'm very specific in the industry that I serve. I start to have a solution that actually talks to me, specifically, in my industry. 

And I think the ability for people to access that technology means that you now have more and more independent developers, who are exploring how these open APIs can be used, leveraged, and really brought together to create solutions that are increasingly targeted, at the different functions that we work in. So I think that crossroad we're there, and it's only going to explode from here, in my mind.

Adam:            It's definitely going to explode. You see the different technology is getting more and more accessible. But sometimes it's harder when you're in a small to medium-sized business. Sometimes you're an accounting department of one, or two, or three people, and it's harder to implement some different types of technology. What advice would you give to somebody trying to look into it, saying, "Hey, I want to jump into this, but I may not have the budget that bigger organizations have?"

Andrew:         Look, what I look at small companies, they want to do more with what they have. And they're trying to abstract away the complexity because, you're right, I look at our team, we're a team of 80-odd employees. And the reality is I have one VP of finance, and he's only just now gone and hired his right-hand person. And the reality is that they're jacks of all trade. They're AP, they're AR, they're essentially all your cash flow management, and they do all your recording, all in one. 

So if I sit down, specifically, with him, it's really all about seeing how they can leverage existing software for longer. How do you abstract away some of the challenges with some of the software that you might have, as you start growing as a business? How do you leverage other solutions, which are just embedded with those solutions, so that you don't have to go through a massive transformation? 

Well, I'll give you a great example, and that's Graham Stanton's Avise. His whole thesis is all about lots of businesses use QuickBooks, and then quickly you grow up, if you're a successful company. But do you really want to make the next step to the next enterprise solution? Which, actually, costs a disproportionate amount of money more, relative to the benefits that you're going to get from them in the early years.

So there's always that, healthy tension, but we're starting to see more and more people focus on the abstraction piece. Keep the ledger the way it is, and then just start adding solutions over the top that help me run my business more efficiently.

Adam:            I like that. Adapt it to what works for you, as opposed to maybe doing a whole ERP system that may be too much money or too much of a spend for you.

Andrew:         Yes, and, again, finance team of one, I came out of the exact polar opposite world. The first 10 years of my career were in deploying SAP. So right at the enterprise resource planning side of the equation, and just a completely different beast, in terms of the different types of people that you had to go and engage with. And also just the number of departments that you got to engage with. Therefore, the resources that were required, just to keep the engine running for that platform were just completely different.

Adam:            Now, we can't talk about moving to different technologies without talking about things like fraud, and just the risk there. And especially if you're a smaller department, or a partner of one, like in your case, there are two people. How do you protect against hackers or different things, different emerging threats, especially, in the fraud space, especially, if you're a medium-sized business?

Andrew:         Look, I think you have to rely on the bigger partners. You can work, certainly, to continue to enhance your solutions. But you do have to lean on some of the bigger partners. We lean on, certainly, on the AWS infrastructure to help us there because they have so much more money to plow into this. 

Now, obviously, they're a bigger target than we are. But they also have way more resources to help plug those gaps. So in our mind, it's also two things; one is it's not really about if, it's when, it's going to happen. And, then, it's really about how do you mitigate it in terms of relying on these partners. 

Now, clearly, cybersecurity, whether it's through an encryption or authentication. I think lot of work continues to be done there. And I think we all experience it, in the consumer world, which is mor...

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. In today's episode, we are excited to have Alissa Vickery back on the show. Alissa is the Chief Accounting Officer, Senior Vice President, Accounting and Control at FLEETCOR Alissa, who served as the interim CFO at FLEETCOR shares her experience stepping into the role, navigating the transition, and balancing multiple responsibilities. She discusses the importance of building a strong team, seeking advice from mentors and auditors, and effectively communicating with peers and leaders. 

She candidly shares her success stories and learning opportunities, during her time as the interim CFO. Lastly, Alissa reflects on how this experience has shaped her career trajectory, and emphasizes the importance of being a business partner within the finance leadership role. Keep listening to hear Alissa's insights and advice. Let's get started.

< Music >

Adam:            Well, Alissa, we're very excited to have you back on the Count Me In podcast. And today we're going to be talking, a lot, about your role, how you served as an interim CFO at FLEETCOR. And, so, to start off, maybe, you can briefly describe your experience as an interim role and what were your main responsibilities?

Alissa:            Sure, so I guess I'll back it up a minute, when you get asked to sit in that kind of seat, even on an interim basis, it is quite overwhelming and humbling, all at the same time. And, so, after serving in various roles in the finance sector here at FLEETCOR over the last 12 years, stepping into the role and the responsibilities, and I'll just call it the weight of the position was, quite frankly, a moment where for me, professionally, I had to really look in the mirror and say, "Okay, I can do this. I'm ready. I can accomplish what my leaders are hopeful that I can accomplish."

But in terms of what prepared me for that, I think it's the experience of being on the journey of the FLEETCOR trajectory over that 12-year cycle, and holding various roles throughout the organization. But always in a global capacity, and always in the interest of, I'll call it the overall finance good. 

Whether it's helping with a deal and making sure that we're thinking through the risks and rewards appropriately, working on valuation, thinking about internal audit. It's really those experiences that prepared me to be able to step into the role in that moment, at that time, whether anticipated, unexpected, whatever. And, so, it was quite the opportunity, at that time.

Adam:            Yes, I can imagine the weight of stepping, into something like a CFO. Because if you're not used to that, if you've never been in that role, there's a certain level of responsibility that is on your shoulders, all of a sudden. Like one day you're not, and then the next day you are. So it's a big transition. How did you navigate that transition to that new role?

Alissa:            I would say I spent as much time as I could with my outgoing CFO, that was step one. Talked a lot with HR around how to navigate the executive ranks, if you will. I was already in the room, but having the CFO hat was a very different hat. And then I would say getting advice from both of those parties, as well as my external auditors. Who were already, I'll call it trusted business partners, as we navigated forward, and just trying to be, quite frankly, as prepared as I could be. 

But then also have the chats with my CEO, to understand exactly where he wanted me to focus. Because I knew that it would be challenging to be all things to all people. I already know that in my personal life/professional life. You can't do all things excellent, at the same time. If you're being a great employee, sometimes, you're not as great of a mom or a wife. And, so, always striking the right balance.

And, so, understanding what he was hoping that I would help control, and help manage, and get him comfortable with, as we moved forward. And, then, I think getting the advice from my outgoing CFO, who was quite gracious with the time he had left in the organization, around making sure that I was leaning on others. I was not in this by myself. I have a team. We have a strong team, and they help to build and support a great finance organization. "Don't forget to lean on them, ask for help, and seek the advice of others when needed."

At the end of the day, I had already built the trust throughout the organization through my tenure, and through the various projects I've worked on over the years. And, so, not discounting the value, and I'll call it just the level of experience that facilitated in the new seat.

Adam:            I can only imagine, but it sounds like you had a great team. And having a great team around you really helps lift you up, and prepares you for that. Are there certain leadership strategies that you had to implement to try to navigate this waters? Because one day you're same level as other people, and the next day you're suddenly a C-level person, right?

Alissa:            Yes, it's just the short answer. It was super fascinating because suddenly I had a new peer group. And, so, working directly with each of those peers, and I have to say they were so gracious, and saying, "How can I help you be successful?"

"Let me know what you need." So I think that's part of it. 

But, then, too, in terms of the skill sets, it was really having the fortitude to find the right help. Back to my statement, I can't be all things to all people, at the same time. I already was the chief accounting officer, still am the chief accounting officer. But I had to elevate to CFO and wear both hats. 

And, so, making sure that I brought in some help to supplement where I knew I needed to step out, and being thoughtful about what that skill set looked like. Knowing that I wasn't going to be able to give every piece of the process, the time that I would have had I only been wearing the single hat. 

And, so, I would say learning to let it go, it's very difficult. Learning to trust your people in a way, I was already trusting them. But I had to trust them in a whole new level, and they're all fantastic, but it's just a change in mindset. I think type A personalities tend to keep it close, and close to the vest, and understand all the moving pieces, and then you can release. 

And, so, I had to get out of my comfort zone, greatly. And I had to figure out new ways, quite frankly, to manage my calendar, manage my availability for those team members. Provide the right level of support t...

Discover how the COSO framework, the gold standard for reliable reporting, has been adapted to include non-financial reporting objectives, aligning with the rise of sustainability and ESG reporting. Explore critical trends in the world of ESG reporting, from increasing regulations to stakeholder engagement and supply chain transparency.

Learn from Tim and Shari as they share their insights on the challenges organizations face in implementing sustainable practices and balancing short-term profits with long-term sustainability goals. Understand the significance of internal controls in providing a basis for external assurance and building stakeholder trust in reported information.

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. In today's episode, joining us are two guest experts. Tim Hedley, who is Executive-in-Residence at Fordham University, and Shari Littan, Director, Corporate Reporting, Research and Thought Leadership at IMA. Our discussion revolves around the importance of internal controls and sustainability reporting. And how they enhance trust, accountability, and reliability of the reported information. 

Tim and Shari share insights from the COSO framework. Which was developed to help improve confidence in all types of data and information. The landscape of sustainability reporting is constantly evolving, with shifting regulatory requirements and increased stakeholder expectations. We explore crucial trends; such as the focus on materiality and risk assessments, stakeholder engagement, supply chain transparency, and evolving reporting metrics. Let's get started, with this enlightening conversation.

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Adam:            Shari, Tim, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited to be talking about COSO, internal control, and everything in that whole ESG world. But just for our listeners, who may be unfamiliar, you could've, probably, have heard the term COSO, or ICSR, and those things before, but maybe you're not familiar with those terms. Maybe, Shari, you could take a little bit of time and define, maybe, a high-level overview of what COSO is, the significant, internal control framework, and the purpose of the new documents.

Shari:             I'd be happy to, thanks, Adam, it's great to be here. So COSO stands for Committee of Sponsoring Organizations and it came about in the late 1980s. It is a collaboration of five accountancy and auditing organizations. There's the American Accounting Association, which is an academic organization, primarily. AICPA, everyone is familiar.

IMA, where we sit, and we primarily focus on the accountants and finance professionals in business, the in-house folks are ours. Institute of Internal Auditors, and FEI, Financial Executives International. So those five organizations make up COSO.

COSO came about in the late 1980s, amid what was then the savings and loans crisis, and there was concern that the profession needed to do better. That we were starting to see major accounting failures, disclosure, litigation, regulation, questions. Are we doing the right things in the profession?" So the five accountancy organizations got together, and they said, "How are we going to resolve this? How are we going to promote trust and accountability in what we do, as a profession?" The focus became on this concept of internal controls, which we'll get to. 

So in '92, after that, the COSO, as an organization, produced its first internal control framework. And then we can move forward to 1990s, late 1990s, 2000, the Enron, WorldCom's era, which led to Sarbanes-Oxley. And Sarbanes-Oxley, rather than looking at the substance of what a company needs to disclose, again, looked at the idea of governance process, auditing, and said, "In order to produce financial reports to the markets, 

you need to focus on your systems and your controls. You need management to speak to it, in your reporting system. You need auditors to address controls." We had the PCAOP.

So we have this Sarbanes-Oxley, which created this idea of internal controls over financial reporting. And, although, Sarbanes Oxley didn't specifically say, "You must use the COSO framework." It was considered the best thing around, and it's become the gold standard in how to produce reliable financial or corporate reporting in more general.

Now, in 2013, the framework was refreshed, we got a new internal control framework. And what it did, in the 2013 refresh, is it added the idea of non-financial reporting objectives. That was around the same time, about 10 years ago, when we started to see all kinds of sustainability integrated, ESG, reporting frameworks.

And, so, though not express, what the framework did, in its refresh, was say "Yes, this is completely applicable to these types of activities and reporting." And, so, that leads us to where we are, today. Where, earlier, in 2023 we issued the internal control over sustainability reporting publication. And what the authors did, in that publication, was we looked at the existing internal control framework and said, "Okay, now we're seeing an acceleration of ESG or sustainability reporting and activities, performance and activities. 

And that means we need good information, and that means we need quality information and transparency. Let's look at the COSO Internal Control Framework, and see how we can interpret it and apply it to these new forms of reporting.

Adam:            Shari, I think that's a great overview. And, as you mentioned, there's the ever evolving nature of this new type of non-financial reporting, ESG reporting. There are shifts in regulatory compliance. We were just speaking before we started recording how this could change, or that could change, or this regulatory body can make a statement, at this moment, at this time, how this is constantly changing. 

And, Tim, maybe, I'll ask you, how do you see this landscape changing? And what should organizations be, particularly, aware of, especially, with the ever evolving nature and things constantly moving?

Tim:               Well, Adam, thank you, and thank you for having me here. The sustainability reporting landscape has rapidly changed, particularly, recently, to meet stakeholder expectation, and government regulations. And, Adam, your question could be an entire podcast, or a big section of this podcast if we had that kind of time, but I do see some critical trends, just some of the ones, from my perspective. 

I mean, many pe...

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Adam:            Welcome back for another exciting episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we have a special guest joining us, Dan DeGolier. The founder and CEO of Ascent CFO Solutions. We start off by exploring current use cases of AI in the industry. Such as coding transactions and streamlining forecasting processes. 

But as Dan points out, we're only scratching the surface of what AI can do. The potential for growth and efficiency is immense. But it's important to proceed with caution and be aware of the biases and ethical considerations that come along with it. 

Throughout this episode we highlight the evolving role of finance and accounting professionals, in the age of AI, and how they can adapt to leverage its benefits. From bookkeepers, to CFOs, to fractional CFOs, AI has the power to enhance efficiency and transform the way we approach financial management. So grab your headphones, and join us as we uncover the exciting world of AI in accounting. Let's dive in.

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Well, Dan, we're so excited to have you on the podcast today, as we're going to talk about AI and fractional leadership. And just to get started, as we think about AI, how is it currently being applied to finance and accounting sectors? Obviously, it does things like enhance efficiency and reduce errors, but how is it being applied in those areas?

Dan:                Yes, thanks for having me on, Adam. It's a pleasure to meet you, pleasure to be here. I think we're just getting started, for one thing. AI, even though it's been around for a while, ChatGPT, GPT 4, and all those things, are relatively new to the mainstream. And, so, a lot of this stuff we're just starting to figure out right now. 

Definitely, in the accounting side, we're starting to see some use cases for coding transactions and things like that. I think there are a lot of opportunities in our world, in the finance realm. When it comes to forecasting, to be able to streamline multiple scenarios and make iterations to financial models and forecasts. 

I think that's an area that we're starting to see develop. And, then, things like pricing strategy and looking at different ways to price and run different scenarios around that. Using large language models, and data, and being able to bring in data and run multiple scenarios and see what things look like there. I think those are all some areas that we're starting to see. 

But, honestly, because it's so early, what is really going to be the biggest use cases, two years from now, is probably something we haven't thought of. Or somebody's thought of but hasn't really been implemented, yet.

Adam:            Yes, that's a great point, that we're so early in the generative AI phase that some organizations are adapting quickly, other ones aren't. And software companies are trying to integrate it into there but it's still in the early phases. So our traditional role-

Dan:                And it's still prone to errors as well.

Adam:            Exactly.

Dan:                Yes, we've all read the articles about the lawyer who tried to use it for briefs and got in huge trouble, and the hallucinations are still rampant. So I think proceed with caution, but recognize that it has enormous potential and don't be left behind. 

I was going to say, I've heard that it's been compared to if you look at Web 1.0, the emergence of the Internet, and commercial use, that this could be a 10x-type of opportunity. From a growth potential, from an efficiency potential, et cetera, it's just fascinating to me, just how massive this could be, and how life-changing this is.

Adam:            Well, and also the bias that's implicit in there, in the AI. Because there are so many biases among how people think, wording, that's out there in the Internet and how it's learning. There's going to be that bias that you have to get over as well. Because it's going to be embedded in there because of how it is societally.

Dan:                Correct, yes, I agree with that. I think one other ethical consideration that needs to be taken into account, when you're implementing AI, is things around copyright infringement, and intellectual property, and protection there. I think the chatbots aren't necessarily aware of what's IP and protected and what's not. 

And, so, it's important that we take into that, that there's a human overseeing that, and making sure that there's nothing being taken out of context or being utilized improperly. And along the same lines, research is another area. Tax research and other types of accounting research is a place where there is a lot of use cases for AI. 

But, again, this is where you need to be very careful around trusting that research and validating that it is accurate. So we don't end up in a situation, where something that's not valid is being utilized.

Adam:            It's going to be very difficult to understand what has been verified and what hasn't, and as you're doing research and as you're looking at things online. I imagine new tools are going to have to be developed to verify, "Yes, this is valid." Or "No, it's not." And how do you trust those as you go forward?

Dan:                Yes, that's really important, and there are going to be mistakes made. As we start to adopt this, we're going to see mistakes being made. And, as humans, we need to learn from our mistakes and learn from others' mistakes, that's how we evolve.

Adam:            Mh-hmm. Do you think that the traditional roles in finance and accounting are going to change because of these? I mean, obviously, they are. But how can we adapt as we go forward?

Dan:                Yes, I think, first thing I would suggest is pay attention to what's going on, see what's evolving, see where things are taking it. I think it's going to definitely change the accounting side, the day-to-day transactional stuff. There's a YouTuber out there, Hector Garcia, who has done some demos of how you can plug in a ChatGPT tool into QuickBooks Online, and how ...

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Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we have a special guest joining us, Paul McManus. To discuss the power of personal branding for accounting and finance professionals. Paul is a podcast host, the author of the book The Short Formula, and the co-founder and CEO of More Clients More Fun. 

We'll explore why personal branding is crucial in today's competitive landscape, and how it can elevate your status as an expert in your field. Paul, an accomplished author, with multiple bestsellers on Amazon, will share his insights on how creating a book can enhance your personal brand and establish you as a thought leader. We'll also touch upon the challenges professionals face when approaching the idea of writing a book and how to overcome them. Let's get started.

Paul, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to talk about personal branding and becoming better versions of ourselves through that type of work. And, maybe, we can start off by talking about why things like personal branding are, especially, important for today's accounting and finance professionals.

Paul:               Definitely. Thank you for having me, I appreciate being here. I think personal branding is one of the things, whether you're a small business owner, or whether you work at a firm, as a professional. 

At the end of the day, when you're growing your business, or whether you're looking for promotions and to make a bigger impact in your world. Nothing, well, not nothing, but personal branding can be one of those things that help you differentiate yourself from everybody else. 

One of the ways that I, primarily, focus on to help professionals with their personal branding is to help them write and publish a book. Which I know is something, again, I talk to a lot of financial professionals and I ask them if they've considered it, and many have. But it just seems like one of those daunting tasks that it's on someone's bucket list, but they never quite get to. 

So, as part of the personal branding question that you asked, I'd love to deep dive, as appropriate, into how a book can really help accountants, and other finance professionals really take their personal brand to the next level.

Adam:            Yes, definitely, when you think about writing a book, some people think, "Oh, no, I have to write this thousand-page book, and it's going to take six years, ten years of my life. But if anybody has looked at the show notes for this event, if they've looked at what you do. They've seen you written multiple books and they've been on Amazon bestseller. So how does creating that book really enhance your personal brand and elevate your status?

Paul:               Yes, writing a book is one of those things that has a long history that people respect. I think there's really two things that help professionals stand out. 

One is writing a book, another is public speaking. There is the old quip from Jerry Seinfeld on the public speaking side that if you're at a funeral; would you rather be giving the eulogy or be in the casket? And the joke was, well, most people would rather be in the casket because they're terrified of public speaking. 

But I think just the act of getting up and speaking in front of people, is just one of those things that most people are afraid of, and so they respect. It's the same thing for writing a book. It's something that just in our culture, there's a tremendous respect for someone who's put in the work, done the work, and who has written and published a book. 

Because it's one of those things that really differentiate yourself from everybody else in the field. It's one of those things that people think about, talk about, and more often than not, never do. And there's a variety of benefits to doing it, personal branding be one of them, which we can go deeper on. And, then, there's also a variety of reasons why people never take that action. So, on the plus side, we want to be clear about why do it. 

There's a great Simon Sinek talk about begin with why, and when your why is clear, then, you get that much more clear on the motivation and the how. And, so, let's talk about the why, from multiple ways to think about it. 

So, again, if you are one of those professionals that does any work in the capacity, as a business owner. So let's say maybe you're a fractional CFO and you're looking to attract clients. Let's say that you work with clients themselves and, maybe, what you do is more difficult to understand. The ability to articulate your core knowledge through a book, way that is interesting and simplifies it to an outside audience. Especially an outside audience of non-experts, is a very powerful way simply to communicate. 

I find that writing a book, it's a personal growth endeavor. Oftentimes you start with a blank page and you think, "Okay, what do I know about this topic?" And after a few minutes, you're like, "Oh, that's it." And, so, you have to say, "Wait a minute, I know more than this." And it really challenges you to think about what you know, and why is that important, and who's interested in that. How can you communicate that in a way that's effective? How can you use stories? 

Oftentimes, especially, with accountants and other finance professionals, what I find is that there's a lot of jargon. There's a lot of technical terms. There's a lot of things that they understand implicitly through experience and study, but for a non-expert, they get lost. And, so, it's how do you communicate ideas in such a way that is relatable to whomever you're speaking to? 

And, so, throughout that process, and we talked about personal branding a little bit, but it really helps you create leadership skills, communication skills, and those things all come together. And, so, whether you're looking to sell more, get a promotion, or simply be more effective at your job. The act of writing and publishing a book is an amazing vehicle to help supercharge those efforts.

Adam:            Mm, yes, it's interesting because when you think about it, if you don't know how to explain what you're doing. If you don't know how to articulate it in a very good way. 

How can you be that storyteller, be that business partner? Whether you're in a f...

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the world of fraud and internal control. Joining me is the incredible A. J. Coleman. He is an author, and serves as vice president and fraud manager at Byline Bank.

Today, we'll be discussing the importance of strong internal controls, in detecting and preventing fraud, and how organizations can navigate through risks and vulnerabilities. A.J. will share some eye-opening examples of common fraud cases and explain how they are identified and dealt with. So if you want to learn more about the crucial role of internal control in combating fraud, you definitely don't want to miss this episode. 

Well, A.J., I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really excited to talk about internal control, and fraud, and just all the different things you have to do in that world. And I know you're an expert in this field, and I thought that, maybe, you could start by giving some examples of how things like strong internal controls can help by detecting fraud. Since I know you see this every day.

A.J.:                Well, great to be here and the opportunity to talk fraud is always rewarding. But, yes, internal controls are really the key, is to be able to identify where there are opportunities or gaps, for the fraudsters to expose an organization. And that's really where the first thing you have to look at is where are we exposed, and what risks that are out there. And from there, you then start crafting those internal controls.

●       How do you want them set up? 

●       What do you want people's roles to be?

●       How should things be escalated? 

And there's a lot that we can go into that aspect. But without internal controls, nobody understands what the proper steps are, and how do you get that message to the expert. And in terms of fraud, fraud happens every day, and it happens in places that we least expect it. It could be anything from a personal thing, where somebody steals your information unknowingly. All the way up to somebody depositing a fictitious check in the ATM deposit, knowing that it's fictitious. And without internal controls, how do we detect this?

How do we maneuver through those processes to, actually, review these transactions? And, then, at the end, do we need to escalate this up through leadership? Does it need to have a certain suspicious activity report filing? And without those internal controls in place is a free fall.

Adam:            That makes a lot of sense, and it begs the question, chicken versus egg, do you have strong internal controls unless you've experienced fraud? Or can you have good internal controls, if you've never experienced fraud? What comes first in some cases?

A.J.:                Well, a lot of depends on the leaders, and the type of the organization and how they set up their infrastructure. Some organizations are very passive and they are reactive, in terms of waiting for things to happen. Other organizations are saying, "Well, you know what? We're going to be active in this. We're going to be proactive." And a lot of that has to do with that leadership quality.

In my opinion, from a fraud expert, you always want to work on the preventive. Because you can always build something, and then do your own risk assessments to determine if there are gaps exposed. Then work together to figure out how to close up those gaps. Instead, of just leaving it open-ended and waiting for the fraud to happen. And a lot of times people just sit because it's easier to wait till something happen, rather than be proactive and build something.

Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Being proactive does seem like the better option, but it all comes down to leadership and those things. Maybe, we could circle back to what are some of the most common types of fraud that you see in your line of work, maybe, there are some examples. I know you can't name any names, but, maybe, there are some examples you can give and how it was identified and dealt with.

A.J.:                Check fraud, is number one on the list. I mean, you would think that in today's world, that we would be doing more electronic payments. But there are just amount of checks that go out on a daily basis. And, sometimes, people just it's easier to write checks, it's easier to send them through the system.

But I will tell you the post office is compromised. We are seeing a lot of checks intercepted by third party individuals. Whether it's the postal workers themselves or they're in a partnership, maybe, with the fraudster or they've been approached, and we read things on the news where postal workers are held at gunpoint, their keys are taken, for mailbox. And all these fraudsters are looking for is just checks, where they can either wash them or they can do a forged endorsement on the back hoping that nobody will notice that.

Check fraud, is unfortunately not going away, and in the last two years I've seen a significant increase. And there are certain controls that you can put in place, not only for the banks, or the institutions, or the companies, but also for the customers themselves. Positive Pay is really important, where you can look to see if you can be protected and be notified, if there's a counterfeit check that gets presented. You can do a payee Positive Pay, that looks at the payee information to see if it's been washed. 

Alternatively, go with the electronic. It's a lot easier on the cash flow, but you also don't have to worry about a paper copy. So check fraud is definitely number one. The other thing we're seeing a lot is what we call Business Email Compromise, BEC, as it's known. And what this is, is with fraudsters, they penetrate into an organization.

Whether it's through a phishing attack or other metrics, and what they do is they clone the server once they're in the organization. And they operate as if they are an authoritative figure and emailing different groups, different business units.

As well as, maybe, even the financial institution changing payment information or making requests for ACH or wires to go out. And what happens once the clone server is done, the primary customer or the vendor has no idea. And the fraudsters are the ones that are letting certain emails go through, intercepting other emails. So, a lot of times, these customers have no idea that they've been compromised, as well, as they just quickly change that information and say, "Hey, we need to pay this person X amount of dollars."

But nob...

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Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and I'm thrilled to have our special guest with us today, Josh Fonger. Josh is an experienced entrepreneur and the CEO of WTS Enterprises. In today's episode, Josh will enlighten us on the crucial difference between working in your business versus working on it. And why this shift is essential for growth, particularly, for business owners and entrepreneurs. 

We'll discuss how getting caught up by day-to-day operations can hinder business growth, innovations, and long-term vision. Josh is an expert in helping companies navigate this challenge, by utilizing the Work the System, or WTS, method. He emphasizes the importance of backfilling our current tasks and responsibilities. 

So we can jump ahead and lead our organizations effectively. But it's not just about the concept. Josh provides practical insight, on how to take action and implement a systematic approach to run a business. So get ready and gain some valuable insights, tips, and strategies. As we explore the power of a systems mindset, with our incredible guest. Let's dive right in.

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Adam:             Josh, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really excited to talk about entrepreneurs, and that systems mindset that you talk about. But to get started, maybe, we can start by discussing the difference of working in your business versus working on it, and why that's essential for growth, especially, for business owners and entrepreneurs?

Josh:               Yes, and this is not a new concept. I think people have been aware of this, heard this, for decades. Popularized by The E Myth, Michael Gerber's, bestselling book. And the key thing that I do is help companies, actually, make that happen. The big the big issue, of course, whether it's a manager, an owner, or a CEO, is that they are doing the work as a technician, instead of leading the work or growing the organization. 

And, so, that's the key thing, is that if you're doing the work, then no one is doing the business growth, no one's doing the innovation, no one's doing the expansion. No one's casting the vision for the next series of years. Instead, they're talking about the next five minutes, and maybe the next five hours, and that's really the issue is that companies stay stuck when they're looking short term. 

And, so, what I focus in on is helping, mechanically, because it's more than just an idea. They need to think differently, but then they, actually, have to take different actions. Is help business owners and leaders take those actions, in a methodical, mechanical way, so that they're backfilling what they're currently doing. Because you can't just jump ahead somebody's got to do the work. 

And, so, there needs to be a way, which we call working the system, or the WTS method, a way to backfill what you're currently doing. So you can jump ahead and lead the organization. 

And, the idea, again, simple enough, work on the business instead of in the business. But, mechanically, and infrastructure-wise, to do that takes some heavy lifting, some rolling up of the sleeves. That's what we want all of our clients to get is that, there's a process you can take. And if you work the process, you work your systems, that freedom and that growth will become a mechanical reality.

Adam:            So maybe we can dig in in a little bit more into this work, this system method that you're talking about. I know that you have a book, that we'll put a link in the show notes for everybody, maybe, you can talk a little bit more about that. How does that enable your business owners to do things like increase profits, reduce time? I know those are a lot of things that you speak about, maybe we can talk a little more detail on that.

Josh:               Yes, so everyone uses all their time, and everyone, essentially, uses all of their resources, and so you're bound by those. And, so, the way to expand your business, expand your life, is to do a better job with those resources. And, so, working the system is all about getting more efficient. And, so, how do we do that? Well, we help people not just react to the problems of their business or the stimuli that's coming their way. But instead, take charge or take control of the systems that they know are going to keep happening. 

So instead of just reacting to a phone call coming in. Instead, manage or control that system, so that you and your team know how to answer the call, to be the best with it. And let's just say answering the phone is one of 300 different systems that maybe your company has. And instead of winging each system and following it the way you've always done it before. 

If you take the time to look at each system, as a separate entity, and then figure out what is the best way to make it the fastest, the lowest cost, the highest efficiency, the highest profitability. What are the ways we can optimize each of those little pieces, which can be done if they're written down and looked at, objectively? You're going to find that the assemblage of those separate pieces are going to result, we're talking to math folks here, accountants, the result is going to be a much better business.

It's not going to be surprise when your company is running way better, way more profitably, when the separate pieces, that make up your business, are each improved by 5%, 10%, 20%. Each of these pieces are then going to equate to a multiple of what you ever thought possible. Because we work with companies, everyone's already working hard. Everyone's already doing their best. 

And, so, we let them know, "You have to work differently, if you're going to expand beyond your current best." Because everyone's already trying their best. Everyone's already working hard, everyone's already maxed out. 

So knowing that plateau is already reached, in the organizations we work with, the goal is, "Okay, well, now we're going to have to work differently. We're going to have to work in a different way." And that's going to be working on these separate systems.

Adam:            So a lot of times when you say the word systems, people think these are different softwares that I'm using, or different things like that. But you're talking systems as more of all the processes that...

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson. And in today's episode, we have special guest, Ben Wolf. Joining us to discuss the fascinating concept of fractional leadership. Ben is the founder and CEO of Wolf's Edge Integrators. A premier fractional COO organization.

Today we'll explore the key factors to consider when hiring fractional executives. The benefits they bring to businesses, and even dive into some real-life examples. So get ready to uncover the power of fractional leadership, and how it can revolutionize your organization.

Ben, thank you so much for coming in on the podcast. We're really excited to talk about fractional executive leadership, today. And I thought maybe we could start off by maybe you can share some experience, some of your own experiences. That led you to discover this concept of fractional executive leadership, and how it changed your approach to leadership in an organization.

Ben:                Sure, absolutely. Well, Adam, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to share about this topic. Obviously something I'm very passionate about. And I first came across it when I was in this business that I first grew up in, entrepreneurially.

I used to be a corporate bankruptcy attorney. And after I left that, I helped build this entrepreneurial business from startup. Built most of its operations, it was a healthcare startup, until we had over 130 people and we were the largest healthcare agency of our category, in the entire state of New York.

 it was really quite a journey. And ways into that, what we and the other members of the leadership team realized is that all of us were figuring out this business for the first time. It was the first time any of us had been running a business of our size before. 

I mean, we'd been employees in larger corporate businesses or cogs in the machine, at various places. But the first time, actually, running a business of our size before. I mean, let's say when we're 50, 75, 100 people, we had never done this before. 

And, so, everything that we're doing, we're reinventing the wheel, at a certain point. We hired an EOS implementer, to help us use this management system called Entrepreneurial Operating System. So we tried to get help and consultants, usually, just felt like they just put together some big report and spent dozens and dozens of hours with us, and members of our team, and just would deliver this report and say, "Good luck." Now, I just call that drive-by consulting. 

What I just realized is, you know what, sometimes that's what you need. But, sometimes, you need somebody that's, actually, on your team that's, actually, part of the business and that's done it before. That's not just figuring it out for the first time like we were. 

And, so, we started looking at hiring for full-time roles and, sometimes, either we were just priced out. These people are like 300 thousand, didn't necessarily make sense for this role. Or we realized we need people who've done this before, and we didn't have it.

And, so, it wasn't really till after I had left there, and I was a COO at a smaller business after that. And, then, I really discovered this concept of a fractional executive. Where you can actually get an executive on your team. That's not the trauma if it doesn't work out, or the cost of 300 thousand plus bonus, plus benefits, and everything else, of a full-time executive, who's done this before. And, also, maybe, somebody that you might be worried might be too corporate for your environment, and you could actually do that with a fractional executive.

You can get someone that's done it before. Whether it's a CFO, or a COO, or CMO, CTO, CIO, CHRO, whatever, something else, and get them on. They're part of your leadership team, they're part of your management team meetings. They have direct reports within the business.

And, so, it's like the best of both worlds. You have a high-level person that's done it before, they're on your team. They get to know your business better because they're actually part of your team on an ongoing basis. Not just consulting, "Hey, good luck." But actually managing the people and managing that department, but just doing so on a part time basis.

So I just became aware of that and, then, ultimately, started to do it myself. First as a solo practitioner, as a chief operating officer, fractional COO. And, then, ultimately, started building a team, which I have now. But that's sort of the experience I went through. It was what I learned in that business growing up, and not having someone like that, who'd done it before. That made me aware of this solution, as I learned more over time.

Adam:            Yes, that's so interesting. Because if you're reading any business application, if you're reading any articles, if you're reading anything in any industry, around business, you hear this term fractional leadership. And, I think, we may have jumped the gun. So maybe we can start by defining what is fractional leadership and how does it differentiate? Because if you're listening to this and you've, maybe, heard this term thrown around. And people, probably, assume, like you were saying, maybe, it's like a consultant kind of thing, but it seems like it's more than that.

Ben:                Yes, that's a great question. I basically define a fractional executive or a fractional leader, as the same as a regular executive. Because the regular executive, if you have your CMO, or your CRO, or your COO, CFO, CTO, CHRO, whatever, they're responsible for a function of the business.

The CMO was responsible for the marketing function of this business. Not one project, but the marketing of the business. The outcomes, the people, everything, just the marketing function of the business. CFO, and a lot of people listening to this, the audience, maybe CFOs or other roles in the finance, or accounting departments.

And CFO is your CFO, they're responsible for your P&L, and finding savings, and forecasting, and strategy, just like a full-time CFO. The only difference between a full-time and a fractional CFO is that they're there fractionally, and they're part time. 

So it enables you to afford someone in that role, that is maybe more experienced than you could afford on a full-time basis. So if you don't need someone with a tremendous amount of experience that's been CFO for decades, at multiple businesses, or a CMO at various businesses. If you don't need that, then, fine, you can hire a CMO a...

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we are joined by Ashish Gupta, CFO, North America, at Reckitt. Ashish has worked across various continents, and his international experience has greatly influenced his approach to developing a sustainable earnings model.

Ashish shares valuable insights on the importance of sustainable leadership. The link between strategy, transformation and execution, and the need for clear communication and business transformations. Join us as we delve into the CFO's role, in driving sustainable growth and empowering teams.

 Ashish, we're so excited to have you on the podcast, today. And you've had extensive leadership experience, across various continents. And maybe you could share with our audience, how has this international experience influenced your approach to a sustainable earnings model?

Ashish:           Hi, Adam, I am actually privileged to be talking to you, today. Yes, I've been lucky to have experience in various continents. But I must say that it has also been one of the challenges that I have faced. It has not been easy, but it's also been quite enriching and rewarding. It has taught me that there is no one-size-fits-all approach, either to leadership, or to developing a sustainable earnings model, or managing teams. 

Well, my greatest learnings have been two, in this situation. The first one, has been that leadership must be situational, and it must be relevant to the place and the situation you are in. And there could be different leadership styles that you could adopt. For example, you could be empathetic, but at the same time be decisive. You could be collaborative, but be very unambiguous. You could come across as vulnerable, but still be authentic about it. And that's what people appreciate, and that's what brings your whole self to work, really.

The second one is you also need to know, and as I said, that there's no one-size-fits all approach. You also need to know when to make a switch from one style to another, depending on how your team is reacting to it. For example, sometimes, we say that it's best to give feedback to people, at that moment.

But that may not be the right approach every time. Because, sometimes, we just want people to get over the emotions and have a calmer head. Before you go back and say, "Hey, look, in this instance, we could have done it a little bit differently." And, maybe, the people are more receptive, at that point of time, when that heat has settled down and they are more calm. 

So I would say that, it has taught me, also, because I've worked in different countries, different cultures. But people are people, so people are the same. They've got emotions, they like to be heard, they like to be respected, and that is universal. That does not change.

Adam:            Yes, the human experience is universal, no matter where you go and, I think, people forget that. Because they want to divide each other because of this or that, and the human experience is so universal, like you just said. And as you're going out through your career, I'm sure you've hit different things like transformation, strategy, execution. You've had to hit all these different things in your different leadership roles. How has that set of skills supported you, in driving success in the different organizations you've been a part of?

Ashish:           Well, Adam, you've just hit on three magic words in that. Which is strategy, transformation, and execution. And I think most of the organizations struggle with the relationship between these three to their teams. Because you cannot have a transformation before you have got a clear strategy, about how do you want to drive the business. And transformation is an outcome of your strategy, and execution is implementing that strategy and transformation. 

So, very often, teams, in the business, fail to see the link of the transformation that is, sometimes, being led by global teams, to the company's strategy. And, then, it becomes even more muddy when it comes to execution. And I love this quote from Einstein, I'm not a science buff, but I love what he said.

He said that, "If you can't explain to a six-year-old, then you don't understand it." And I think it's very true. And it may sound complex strategy, transformation, execution, but organizations need to keep it very simple. Because if people don't get it, then it doesn't reflect in teams not interested in executing a project or program. And it may sound something similar to Silent Resignation, that we talked about today, so people are not just interested.

With my experience, I have had experience, and I'm lucky to have experience on both sides. I've led global transformation programs from the corporate side, and I've been at the receiving end, and large markets of those transformation programs. I've always wanted to understand the strategy behind a transformation. Why are we implementing a project?

What's the corporate strategy in it?

What do we get out of it?

What do I get out of it? 

And that helps me put in the right execution force and resources behind it.

Adam:            So, you're speaking about leading transformation into the finance function. One of the times, I was reading about in a recent article you wrote, was the Group Transformation Finance Director at Reckitt. How is that experience? What things did you learn from that particular experience, that helped translate into what you're currently working on?

Ashish:           Well, it has been immensely useful to my learning, really, Adam. And, normally, if you see in any organization, there are about two to three centers of gravity in an organization. The first one really is the corporate headquarters; that drives the vision, purpose, and strategy for the company.

The second one, in many instances, is the geography or business unit headquarter, depending on how the organization is set up. And the third one, which I believe is the most important one, are the markets where the business actually gets delivered and, sometimes, there's a confusion.

But it's so true, that the transformation office always works for the markets to bring in that change and shift.

In my transformation roles, I was leading the selection and implementation of certain cutting-edge projects and tools, in various areas. Planning, forecasting, controllership and compliance, productivity. And, then, I'm currently working in the biggest market, which is U.S. So it has helped me to understand that once you understand the strategy be...

Learn how certifications like the CMA provide a standardized body of knowledge to showcase specialized expertise. Discover how the right certifications position you for success as technology and demands transform. Gain perspective on certifications as a strategic investment in your future, increasing opportunities and earning potential over the length of your career. 

Brian draws on extensive experience preparing accounting students and professionals for certifications to offer advice on overcoming barriers like cost or study time. He provides encouragement that passing rigorous exams like the CMA, while requiring dedication, is very achievable with the right preparation and planning.

If you're looking to get strategic and maximize your career potential in accounting, this episode is a must-listen! You’ll come away motivated to pursue professional certifications and equipped with insights to choose the right certifications for your goals.

Full Episode Transcript:
 

Adam:            Today on Count Me In, we have a great episode in store. Our guest is Brian Hock, president of Hock International and an experienced accounting educator. Who has been teaching finance and accounting certifications for over two decades. Brian provides keen insights into the value of professional certifications like the CMA, and how they can benefit accounting professionals throughout their career.

He discusses the importance of certifications in demonstrating specialized knowledge and skills, as well as how certifications, like the CMA, help professionals stay current in a rapidly changing business landscape. Brian offers advice for overcoming barriers to obtaining certifications. Emphasizing the long term career rewards, that make certifications a smart investment. With technologies and an evolving talent gap impacting the accounting field, Brian's perspective is extremely timely. Now, let's welcome Brian Hock.

Adam:            Well, Brian, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast today. And, just to jump right in, can you share with us, with our listeners, why are certifications so critical, especially in the field of accounting?

Brian:             Well, first, Adam, thanks for having me. It's great to be with you. The question of certifications is one that is very important for somebody's career. And the way I explain it is that there are however many thousands and thousands of universities around the world, and they all have different quality of an accounting program, accounting professors, the classes that they teach. 

And, so, just because somebody has an accounting degree, we aren't really in a position to know what that person knows. What they studied, how they studied, how well they did. But a certification is a specific body of knowledge. A specific syllabus that is the same for everybody who takes it anywhere in the world.

And, so, the term certificate, it's a certification because it's that standardized test that everybody who's passed it has passed the same content. And, so, it's a person's way of showing what they know separate from their university. Because a lot of universities may be very good universities, but they're not known outside the city, the region that they're in. And nobody outside that city or region is aware that the person has such a strong accounting education or finance education. But a certification shows that.

Adam:            It does, and, I think, we're hearing that a lot more. Especially, in the world of accounting, with so many different things happening. So many new technologies coming out there. One of the biggest things we're hearing about is things like the talent gap. So how are certifications helping bridge that talent gap, especially in the finance and accounting sector?

Brian:             Well, a good certification helps bridge that by staying current, and this is something that I know CMA does. I've been teaching CMA for almost 25 years, and it's a number of syllabuses that I've taught. Because what accounting and finance professionals need to know, what they're using on their job, has changed over time. 

And, so, with IMA doing such a good job of keeping the CMA syllabus up to date and relevant. That is part of that talent gap being addressed, by making certain that the people that come out through CMA have those skills. And the obvious example is AI wasn't in the syllabus 20 years ago, but it was put into the syllabus in 2020.

And, so, technology is a big one, as technology changes. As the skill set that people need to use that technology changes, data analytics, visualization, are in the syllabus now, but they weren't ten years ago. And, so, a certification that keeps its syllabus current addresses that gap by making certain that the people who come out of that certification have those current, and practical, and relevant skills that are needed in the market today.

Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Now, you have been in this accounting space, in the certification space, teaching people certifications for a while. How have you seen that demand change over the years, and what trends you see us going towards in the future?

Brian:             I think one of the things that's happened, and continues to happen, is more and more what I would call a specialty certification. You take something like CMA, and it's accounting and finance, at a fairly broad scope. It's not specific to receivables, or payables, or bookkeeping, or a specific type of banking.

But now you have certifications that are specifically about fraud examining. You have certifications that are about a controller position or a specific element of a business. And those are wonderful certifications for people that are a little further along in their career. That have some experience and know what it is that they're going into.

But when we talk about young people just starting their career. The certification that they need is one that's going to keep as many doors as possible open for them, as long as possible. And when I talk to a university student, I say, "Well, if you know that you want to go into investment banking, then that's the certification you need to pursue."

"If you know that you want to go into some particularly niche area, then, find that specific niche certification."

But most people, until they've been five or 10 years in their career, don't know what they want to do for the next 20 years. And, so, there are niche certifications that are developing, which are for later in somebody's career after they know where they're going. But we still have the same certifications around th...

Did you know that even seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words can violate workplace norms? In this fascinating conversation, Amanda and Doug shed light on various aspects of civility, including its impact on workplace morale, productivity, and employee commitment. They also explore the role of leaders in promoting a culture of civility and providing guidelines for employee conduct.

Through insightful discussions and real-world examples, you'll gain a profound understanding of how civility not only enhances workplace harmony but also influences ethical decision-making. So whether you're a leader aiming to foster a respectful environment or an employee dealing with an uncivil boss, this episode will equip you with the tools to navigate challenging situations. Tune in today!

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. Today, I'm thrilled to have Doug Parker, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Western Carolina University. And Amanda Marcy, Assistant Professor of Accounting at the University of Scranton on today's show. They are authors of the award winning article, The Value of Civility. Which examines the important relationships between ethics, professional standards, and civil behavior in the workplace.

Doug and Amanda will share insightful perspectives from their research, on how a culture of incivility can negatively impact organizations. What leaders can do to promote civility, and advice for handling uncivil bosses or co-workers. Their expertise provides a crucial framework for maintaining ethical principles, while nurturing a respectful and productive work environment. 

Doug and Amanda's thought-provoking article underscores why self-awareness, open communication, and thoughtful leadership are vital for organizations seeking to uphold integrity. I'm excited to dive into these critical issues with them. Please join me in welcoming Doug and Amanda to the show.

Adam:            Well, Amanda and Doug, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today. You, guys, are the authors of an article called The Value of Civility, which is the Curt Verschoor, Article of the Year. And we're really excited to talk about that. And, so, maybe we can start off by explaining how civility in the workplace is related to professional ethics, and the ethical principles and standards. And we're going to be talking a lot about ethics and standards, today. But maybe we can start a little bit about maybe how civility works and maybe what is civility. Because it's not a word we hear every day in every workplace.

Doug:              Well, it's definitely not something you hear every day, but it's something you witness every day. Especially when you watch media or any news outlets, you'll see incivility at its best. But the basic concept there is it's, basically, an exchange of seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words, that violate the conventional norms of workplace conduct.

In other words, it's not, necessarily, direct attacks. It's more of texting on your cell phone while someone's trying to convey a point or real low intensity behavior meant to harm others, without maybe even recognizing that you're doing it. Sometimes it can be words that we say that can harm others. Derogatory comments, ignoring their opinions, belittling their opinions, I think, is a big part of incivility. And we do witness it quite a bit in everyday society.

Hopefully not in everyday workplace society, but you see it a lot in terms of society. Go to the counter and just watch people do their orders. Where something's done wrong or not as quick as they think, and you'll see those uncivil acts begin to take place in there. Any additional thoughts on that, Amanda?

Amanda:        I would say one thing to remember is that ethics contributes to how, like Doug said, we treat each other on a daily basis. So civility, at its heart, focuses on honesty, fairness, self-control, and prudence. Therefore, if we don't have civility, then we can never truly act ethically.

Doug:              It definitely requires to be mindful of a place, time, and how you speak. I think we must concentrate on what we say and how we say it. So I found this neat, little, article by Joan Dubinsky, from Clemson University, and she stated that, "Civility and ethics are cousins, they're not twins." In other words, they're not the identical same thing. In other words, you can be civil and still act unethically. So you can take an unethical course, but do it very civil.

So in the South we say, "Bless your heart" that's uncivil words. It's meant as a derogatory term, but it's done in a very civil manner. So you can act in an unethical manner and still act civilly. However, you can't be uncivil and be ethical, at the same time. So it doesn't work both ways. So if you're uncivil, then, you're definitely not acting civil or ethically toward others. Treating other with respect and care is really foundational to ethical leadership. Leading in a manner that respects the rights and dignities of others.

Adam:            Mh-hmm, yes, it sounds like everybody should be listening to this conversation. Especially if we look at just how people treat each other in the streets, in Twitter, to each other, and how they talk to each other anywhere. This is a wider conversation, than just the workplace. But if we look at the workplace, how can that lack of a civility affect a professional workplace. If we don't have those things? I think you've kind of covered that. But if we look at just a workplace, how can it affect if we don't have those things?

Amanda:        One thing to consider is it will, obviously, break down workplace harmony. Because you could have employees attacking each other, I don't want to say physically attacking each other. But attacking each other, maybe they're physically attacking each other, I don't know. Either subtly or intentionally which, again, can result in low employee morale, decreased productivity, stuff of that nature.

It could also result, in the end of the day, of employees having less organizational commitment. So they may be more apt to leave the firm just because they're not comfortable being there anymore, in that type of environment.

Doug:              Yes, and if you really read the paper and look at some of the comments, so I'll go to that, it says that, "The impact of incivility, it makes you less motivated to do a good job or get a job done as fast as possible." Well, in that are you acting in the most ethical manner? I mean, if your motivation to do a good job, that's not really ethical, especially, for your clients or for your employer in that.

Connect with our presenter:
www.finoptimal.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesserubenfeld/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome, listeners, to Count Me In. Your go-to destination for insights into the future of finance and accounting. Today, we have a special guest with us, Jesse Rubenfeld, CEO and founder of FinOptimal. He is an expert in accounting automation and AI. We delve into a conversation that may redefine how you perceive your profession. How is automation shaping the accounting landscape? What are the new skills that financial professionals must adopt? And what does the full automation mean for traditional jobs in the field? Sit back and join us in this exciting journey, as we explore the transformation of accounting in the age of automation.

****

Well, Jesse, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, and today we're going to be talking about automation and accounting. And to start off, maybe, at a high level, we can talk a little bit about how has automation really impacted the accounting and finance industry, and what benefits has it really brought to it?

Jesse:              Well, I think it's really been a benefit to the profession, that's the headline. It's taken it from a place where there was a lot of manual block and tackle. To an elevated role where the accountant, the finance professional, can be a thought partner and spend most of their time analyzing and adding value to the message that they provide to management, to the CFO, to investors, to whoever it is. Because they're spending less time managing spreadsheets, or uploading things, or doing data entry, and more time being smart.

Adam:            Yes, they have more time to focus on other things. Maybe we can talk about what are the specific kinds of automation, that are really impacting those operations. You mentioned some things that are taking us off of spreadsheets. But are there other things that are really impacting it?

Jesse:              Well, in this situation I like to differentiate between accounting practice automation and accounting automation. Accounting practice automation involves task management workflow. Facilitating review and approval of work papers, tracking time spent on clients. It benefits the accounting firms, but it doesn't, drastically, increase capacity. And it's only beneficial for internal accounting teams, at a certain size.

Now contrast that with accounting automation, which involves calculating and recording journal entries, reconciling transactions, generating reporting. This benefits accounting firms and their clients directly. It increases capacity for firms, and it increases speed and accuracy so the clients aren't sitting around waiting for answers. 

Internal accounting teams can benefit from this early on. One person can benefit from this. One person can do the job of five, whereas it's unlikely they'd use accounting practice automation in a one-person finance team. We also like to distinguish between automation and automation assisted. Automation assisted means it's faster than fully manual, but it's still manual at lots of parts. Whereas automated means one event triggers all of the subsequent actions, automatically. And I like to illustrate this with a side-by-side example.

Okay, let's say you're using HubSpot, the CRM, and QuickBooks Online. You close a sale, you have to invoice for the deal and then you have to account for it correctly. And deals, sometimes, have different payment terms. "I'm going to pay all up front, I'm going to pay monthly." And they have different agreement lengths; annual, quarterly, month to month.

An automation-assisted process looks like this; a deal is marked closed, one. Accounting gets an email, they fill out the details in a spreadsheet that contains a revenue waterfall schedule. They make sure the formulas are correct and then they copy down through all of the columns, et cetera. And then once a month they go book an entry in QBO.

Whereas automated, fully automated, means the deal is marked closed, one, in HubSpot. Data flows from the CRM to QBO automatically. The invoice is sent, automatically, and the invoice is coded in a way that the revenue can, automatically, be recognized in the appropriate periods. That's what we're doing for our clients, full automation. Does that make sense?

Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And, so, as you're describing those two things, the full automation is almost eliminating traditional jobs that have been in the finance function. So when you were talking about this full automation. There are new skill sets that are involved that are needed for it, and you've seen lots of articles. But maybe we can talk a little bit about that. What are some new skills that accountants are going to need, going into the future? Because full automation is on its way, in a lot of the functions.

Jesse:              Totally. Again, the headline here is it's elevating the high performers of yesterday. So that today they can do more, better what they're already doing. In terms of new skills, it comes down to more systems and data analysis. SQL, for example, in our case, Python, if you really want to go crazy. I long ago went crazy. But I think that in the past, somebody who could do the higher level work of managing, of communicating financial pictures to important stakeholders like the CFO, the CEO, investors, they would do that, but they'd spend a lot of time preparing for those things.

It would be a major event to get ready for a board meeting. And the amount of time that it took to do that right, was a barrier to entry of competitors for their job. Whereas now they don't have to spend that time preparing for it. Meaning they can use automation to do a much better job, of keeping things ready for the board meeting in real time, all the time.

But it also means that it's not as hard for someone to come along with the same skills and replace them. Because they no longer have the luxury of designing their own really convoluted, excessively complicated process, that another skilled accountant can't come in and replace. So it's a double-edged sword. But, overall, it's making everybody more productive and therefore is good for business and the accountant.

Adam:            Yes, it is good for business because it helps your bottom line, it helps get things done more efficiently. But I can imagine that changi...

Connect with our speakers:
Dr. Mfon Akpan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmfonakpan/

Dr. Scott Dell -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/drscottcpa/
SF Magazine Article by our speakers

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the world of AI. A subject that has been making waves across industries. Transforming the way we work, communicate, and think. With me are our esteemed guests; Dr. Mfon Akpan, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Methodist University. And Dr. Scott Dell, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Francis Marion University. They bring a wealth of knowledge and insights into AI's history, its current impact, and what's on the horizon. 

We'll discuss everything from AI's phenomenal growth; to its applications, ethics, security concerns, and much more. So buckle up and let's embark on this fascinating journey into the digital revolution.

Adam:            Mfon and Scott, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited we're going to be talking about AI and ChatGPT, and all that comes underneath that. And we're really excited to have this because this is a very hot topic, and people are talking about it. You see articles about it every day. You see updates, you see leaders writing letters saying, "Let's stop all AI for six months." Et cetera. Maybe we could just start at a high level. What is AI? What are these chat bots? What are these things doing for us?

Scott:              Amazing tool, and thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to be here and to share. I'll kick things off, Mfon, if it's all right. This artificial intelligence has been around for over 60 years. So you say, "Wait a minute, why is it so new?"

Well, what's new is the capabilities because of the computing power we now have. And the tool is amazing; it is changing life as we know it. We haven't seen the likes of this since the printing press. It's an environment that can really do things, change work, augment work, replace work, but makes things better. Your thoughts, Mfon?

Mfon:             Yes, and I think some of the excitement around it is that we haven't seen this type of growth, in a platform as well. So you think about it was released, November 30th 2022. Five days, the platform got a million users. So you think about in 2010, it took Instagram two and a half months to get to a million users. So there's a lot of excitement, and then there's a lot of acceleration and speed around the platform, as well.

Scott:              As a follow up to that, 100 million users mark was reached in two months. Compared to TikTok, I think, it was nine months to get that far, that fast. So it has been an amazing adaptation of the technology.

Adam:            So maybe we can talk a little bit about how does it work. And, then, from there, maybe, talk about what benefits it may have for the accounting profession as a whole.

Mfon:             Well, it's a language model, so it has an interface. So you're able to go to the platform, you go to the website, and you're able to ask it questions, or you can copy and paste information and ask it to do things. So from the profession side, if you're asking it to solve problems. You can ask it to solve a problem, or you can have it write an email, write a letter, it can produce content for you.

Scott:              And as Mfon mentioned, it is an LLM, one of those three-letter acronyms, a large language model. But what it does is it projects words. So it looks at the previous word and it says, "Mm, what would the next logical word be?" 

                        Which, sometimes, if you've ever played the game of telephone, as a kid, sometimes, you get to the end of that line and nothing resembles how it started out. And that sometimes happens, as well, with the ChatGPT and GPT-4 environment. Because it is projecting with probabilities, "Yep, I think this is the next word." And sometimes it's dead wrong. It's called hallucinating, it's the actual technical term.

Mfon:             It does hallucinate. But what's so fascinating when you use it, it is projecting. But I guess it feels like you get the impression that it's thinking, even though it's not thinking. So you can ask it questions and it will give you answers, so there's that interaction. But it is projecting and it does, sometimes, hallucinate, or make up answers, give you false information. 

Scott:              And the fear I really have, in the hands of professionals, we can, probably, take a look and say, "Oh, this isn't quite right. This is illogical." But for a novice, and for newbies like our students, they will look at this and say, "The English is so good. It just flows so, logically, it must be right." And it's not, although, often enough it is right. So there's a balance.

Adam:            Yes, so talking about people using it. Obviously corporations, people within corporations, within organizations, are using it. Within the accounting profession are using it, and people are having to create policies. There are new workarounds coming out there. People are saying, "Okay, you can use this, but you can use it for that."

I saw one example, where somebody put in a fake balance sheet and said, "Analyze this for me." And it gave a really interesting analysis. Then, you have to worry, "Oh, am I putting somebody's data into this thing?" And you have to worry about those things. And, so, how can this tool be used for management accounting? In the accounting space, obviously, without giving away too much personal data?

Scott:              Security consciousness is we need to be there. I mean, you're hearing about the deepfakes. I just heard about a scandal in Hong Kong, a banker that sent millions of dollars, based on what so...

Connect with Kevin:
https://ascentmgt.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/the90dayturnaround/

Full Episode Transcript:

Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today's world is filled with uncertainty, and with 2023 looking like a challenging year, organizations are feeling the squeeze. Our guest, today, Kevin Herring, president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting. Brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to our discussion, on support functions within organizations. 

We'll explore how businesses can optimize their existing resources, transform their thinking, and redefine roles to survive and thrive in these turbulent times. It's time to reimagine your organization's potential. So let's dive right into this essential conversation.

Kevin, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast. I'm really excited to have you on. As we talk about support functions within organizations. And as we both know that the markets, in 2023, are not looking great. The futures are not looking great. And it's going to put a squeeze on many organizations. And can we start talking about, within organizations. How you can leverage expertise, within your organization, as cuts and reorganizations are going to have to start coming?

Kevin:            Yes, that's a great question. How do we do that? And I think that you're right. Everything that we read, everything that we hear CEOs are saying that they're hunkering down. They're planning for a rough 2023, possibly 2024, and they really have to maximize, maybe, a better way to put it is to optimize the resources that they have in the organization to get through it. And our support functions play a critical role in that. 

Every organization has a lot of natural slack in the system. And, sometimes, we don't realize it until we really start to drill down and look at what's working, what's not working, that sort of thing. And what we find is that when you talk to people, when you talk to teams, and ask them, are they contributing everything that they could possibly contribute to the organization? 

Not are they working as hard as they can, but are they contributing everything? Do they have capabilities that are not being used? Do they have information, understandings of things that are not being tapped? And the answer is almost always, "Absolutely, yes. I'm doing the best I can with what I have, but I could do so much more for the organization, if they just let me."

And people and staff functions play such a critical role. Accountants, finance folks, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, all those functions can play a huge role in maximizing or optimizing the use of our resources. The people that actually produce the product. The people that actually interface with the customers directly. And one of the ways they can do that is really to take a different look, maybe, than they have, historically, about their role in the organization. 

So here are a couple of ways to do that. One is to think, when I go to work each day, how do I see myself? And this is not just a semantic exercise. But do I see myself as an accountant who just happens to work at XYZ manufacturing company, for instance? Or do I see myself as an XYZ business person, who happens to bring accounting expertise to the organization? And it's a different way of thinking about my role, "Why I'm here?"

"What am I supposed to do in this organization?"

Am I just supposed to perform a bunch of tasks related to accounting? Or am I actually supposed to do things that, sometimes, might even stretch me a bit outside of my area of expertise. To help the business, overall, to be successful and to look for those opportunities? 

And, so, when we do that, we start recognizing that for an organization to get the full use of our expertise. We need to think of ourselves in terms of how can we bring our expertise to bear on the critical situations that the organization is dealing with. The critical issues they're dealing with, "How do I do that?". And that's a consulting role, that's not an activity role. That's not a compliance or regulatory role, that's a consulting role. 

That's where we're looking for ways that we can help those who are in the core business. To produce more efficiently, more effectively, to satisfy the customer better. To produce better products, higher quality, optimized, profitability, reducing cycle time, all those sorts of things, delighting the customer. Those are all things that anyone in a support function has the ability to help with. If they think of ways to apply their expertise in solving existing problems, and preparing the organization to handle possible future issues. 

So that's a shift in thinking, it's also a change in how we operate. Because now, if I'm a consultant, I need to learn how to be a consultant. I need to learn consulting skills. I need to learn how to identify opportunities, diagnose problems, gather data, assess it, and determine how I can solve that problem. Or determine if maybe I don't have the expertise to solve it. Who might have that expertise, and be willing to source that for those in the core business that are struggling. That's a different role, for a lot of people.

Adam:            That is a different role. And it's almost like within your internal organization, your title may be Chief Financial Officer or Chief Staff Accountant. But what you're saying is that your mindset needs to be that of a consultant, to better help the organization. So how do you start changing that mindset so that you can better help?

Kevin:            Yes, well, first you have to decide who your client is. And this is a problem for a lot of people. Most people, when you ask them, "Who's your client?" They point to their boss. That's the client or the boss's boss, the CEO or the CFO. That's who they really serve in the organization, and that's not an effective mindset to have.

Sure, those people play a critical role, but as bankers, really as bankers. People who provide the assets, the resources, the budgets, the tools and supplies, and things you need to be able to take your expertise and apply it to the core business. They want a return on those assets. So they're going to extend the resources for you to be able to use them in a productive way, for the organization. 

And, so, that begs the question — Who is the real client? Well, the places where you ca...

Connect with Tom:
* Website: www.todaycybersecurity.com
* Tom's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-w-2b6256173/
* Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/todaycyber
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/todaycyber_
* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/todaycybersecurity/
* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/today-cybersecurity/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:    Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Today we have an exceptionally exciting conversation lined up for you. Our guest today is my fellow podcaster, and an author on Amazon's bestseller list, Tom Wooley. He has expertise in corporate accounting. Spanning sectors like pharmaceuticals, oil, and gas, and now he's making waves in the realm of cybersecurity. 

From big corporations to small businesses, the tech landscape is ever-changing, and Tom's insights are here to guide us through it. We'll discuss;

1. The rapid shift to remote work. 
2. The challenges of secure information handling. 
3. The complexities of selecting the right software. 
4. And the impact of new regulations. 

Buckle up, as we explore how technology is shaping the future of accounting. Tom, welcome to the show.

Adam:            To start off, I just really wanted to, maybe, you can talk a little bit about your background and how you got here.

Tom:               Hi, Adam, thanks so much. It's a pleasure to be here. So I've been an accountant for 15 years, in the corporate industry before starting my own firm. I started off in pharmaceuticals, and then went to oil and gas in more of the financial analysis role and a lot of management accountancy. One of the things I used to do a lot of was whenever we would acquire a new company, we had to look at their financial systems. What they had in place, and then integrate them into our SAP financial system. All their historicals, and then get them trained, up and running for the future.

So I got a lot of experience, and had a lot of fun working in accounting technology in my corporate career. And then decided that, "Hey, there's a lot of technology to be brought or to be moved over and implemented in the small business accounting world as well. Smaller firms need just as much tech, if not more, sometimes, than the big guys. And with the way the technology world is moving, especially, with everything going over to the cloud.

I decided to start my own cloud accounting firm, back in 2015. And, then, when everybody started going remote, in 2020, I decided that was a good time to pivot again and go into cybersecurity, for accountants. And help other people tackle some of those issues that we saw as we transitioned to a lot of people working from home, remote, and just coping with a very wild and flexible world, over the last couple of years.

Adam:            Yes, it's been a very wild and flexible world. There's been so many things happening with everybody working from home, and all the challenges that organizations face. And cybersecurity is something that's in the news every day. You see ransomware attacks, and so many different things that's affecting so many organizations. 

Maybe we can start by talking a little bit about what are some of the biggest challenges you see organizations facing, when it comes to cybersecurity.

Tom:               Absolutely, there are a couple of things that really hit home. It's how to keep everybody working in a fluid environment. Where you can access all of your information securely. How can you find your clients' information securely? How can you receive it from them securely? We work in a time where we've got so many different communication channels. We have to actually tell our clients what is a safe and good way to get your information over to us. 

And when we started transitioning from working in the office to working from home, the biggest challenge that we faced, and that other accountants are facing is–how do you go mobile with all of that? How do you keep it in the cloud and know that it's secure? And, really, importantly, how do we instill that trust relationship with our clients. So that they know that their information is in good hands? And we started looking at so many different software out there. 

The second challenge is with a huge buffet of cloud software. Which one goes with which? How does it integrate? And it really came down to what does the process look like, for internally and externally with our clients? And that's what we hear a lot; is which software should I use? 

How do I implement it? 

There are some all-in-ones out there. Should I piecemeal, together, best in class? And there are just so many solutions. Accountants don't have time for that, especially, during tax season, which has been basically year-round for the last couple of years.

Adam:            Yes, I can only imagine. And also the biggest challenge, too, is if you're a Fortune 100 company, you have a lot more financial ability to get a larger software. A big all-in-one software. But if you're a smaller organization, or a Mom-and-pop shop, it's a lot harder to implement those bigger softwares. And, so, trying to find that challenge; how do you balance that depending on which organization you're with?

Tom:               Yes, that's a great question. There are smaller softwares like QuickBooks Online and Dropbox, that people, typically, use when they're starting off. All the way up to SAP or NetSuite when they're the Fortune 100. So it really comes down to what is the budget and how customizable does it need to be.

Something like NetSuite requires not just getting the software, but hundreds or thousands of hours of customization, and implementation, and training. And what we really want to go for is finding out how the firm is interacting interna...

Connect with Lamont and Kelly:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/lamontblack/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-richmond-pope-cpa-83689a5/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Where we delve into the pressing issues shaping our world and the business landscape. Today, we have the privilege of hearing a wonderful conversation between our guest host, Kelly Richmond Pope, accounting professor and author, and Lamont Black, an Associate Professor of Finance at DePaul University. They discuss an issue that is at the forefront of finance innovation; cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology.

Lamont brings his vast knowledge and expert insights to help demystify these complex topics and explain their relevance to the finance industry. So whether you're a CFO, a controller, a finance professional, or simply a curious listener, prepare for a deep dive exploration into the world of blockchain and cryptocurrencies. Let's get started.

Kelly:              So Lamont, thank you so much for joining me, today. And if you could start by just introducing who you are.

Lamont:         So I'm an associate professor of finance in the Driehaus College of Business at the DePaul University. So I'm one of your colleagues.

Kelly:              You are one of my colleagues. And, so, I want to welcome you to the IMA podcast series. And I have been working with the IMA, a little over a year. Working in research and thought leadership about ethics, corporate governance, risk, and you know my favorite love, fraud. And as we watch the news, read the news, what has just been in the news, so much, in the past, I'd say 18 months, is this really weird word called cryptocurrency. 

And when I came to you, originally, about trying to understand what in the world is cryptocurrency. What you shared with me was how important it was to understand blockchain. And what I want to do, today, is have you really break down the importance of understanding blockchain. Because what I think the world is getting a little scared about is when you keep hearing about cryptocurrency, these exchanges that are falling apart. And, I think, everybody is really skeptical of this concept of cryptocurrency.

But what I know you feel is, though, people might be scared of that. But you still need to understand the soundness and the value of the underlying technology, which is called blockchain. So could you tell us a little bit about what blockchain is and why we need to know about it as managerial accountants?

Lamont:         Yes, so blockchain is the platform behind cryptocurrency. And blockchain is a technology, that, I think, everyone should be trying to understand. It's really a system of shared record keeping. So if you think about how we now live, in the information age, most of what we do is involving data. That data is being stored and shared using different systems, today. Whether that's on the cloud or other types of servers, and the blockchain is a way of sharing information. So that it's recorded on a shared ledger. 

So you can really think of blockchain as a system of accounting. And what makes it different is that rather than these ledgers being held in a private form. Different ledgers on different institutions that, then, have to communicate, blockchain cuts across all those silos. It's a way of recording information across an entire network. Sharing that information with the network, that makes it very secure, very transparent, and very efficient for sharing information. 

So as we move deeper and deeper into the digital economy and e-commerce. I think every organization should be trying to understand how do we store and share information on the internet. I think blockchain is likely that next platform. And, so, even in the world of accounting, this is where things are likely headed.

Kelly:              So that's a great explanation, and it really makes me feel a lot more comfortable in understanding that. Although, I hear all this craziness about cryptocurrency, and cryptocurrency is just where you shouldn't put your money. You've made me feel a lot more comfortable about why I need to understand blockchain. But let me digress, for a second, what in the world is going on with all that we hear about FTX, and the collapse of these exchanges? What is that conversation even about? And how does that affect or how should it affect our opinion of blockchain?

Lamont:         Yes, so cryptocurrency is the money that is transferred across public blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum. And, so, people can own Bitcoin and Ethereum as digital assets, and crypto prices ran up, dramatically, during COVID. There are different arguments for why that occurred. 

But one of them would be the amount of monetary stimulus. As people had all these different sources of income coming in. Let's say through stimulus checks in the form of fiscal stimulus, that money flowing into the economy. A lot of that ended up in crypto. And, so, Bitcoin almost reached $70,000 for one Bitcoin by late 2021. And as we moved into this year and our economy started to slow, inflation started to rise, largely as an outcome of COVID, crypto prices started to collapse. 

Now, some people focus on the collapse of the crypto market as being something unique. But I just would point out that the stock market also entered bear market territory in the first half of this year, and in particular, tech stocks. So tech stocks are very risky. And, so, speculative assets during an economic slowdown, those prices tend to fall the most. 

I view crypto as a form of technology. It's the frontier of technology. So, to me, it's no surprise that as risky assets have sold off this year, crypto has gotten hit the hardest. Now, as it relates to the exchanges, that's really been the problem this year. Because most people when they buy crypto, they buy it on an exchange like Coinbase, here in the US, or FTX, which was an offshore exchange headquartered in the Bahamas. 

No...

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Hello and welcome to Count Me In. The podcast that brings you the latest insights and practical advice on leadership, accounting, management, finance, and business. I'm your host Adam Larson, and today we are delighted to have Nykema Jackson with us. With a rich background in consulting and a significant leadership role in corporate America. She's here to share her views on the pressing issue of our time; staff development and leadership in the era of remote and hybrid work models. 

As we explore the new paradigms that have emerged in the wake of the Great Resignation, let's dive into the conversation to learn how we can foster engagement, trust, and growth in these transformative times. Please join me in welcoming Nykema to the show.

[00:00:43]       < Music >

Adam:            So, Nykema, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about staff development and leadership. Which is a big topic today because in the last three years we've seen a lot of changes. With the change to working from home. And, then, now, as things have gone back, going back to hybrid. And we've had terms like The Great Resignation and quiet quitting being thrown at everybody. 

And, so, as we're talking about that, can we maybe discuss, from your perspective, how do you see an organization can keep their staff engaged and continue to develop them in the midst of all this?

Nykema:        Sure, and thanks so much for having me. One thing that I've seen in my career, and I've come from a consulting background and, currently, I'm in corporate America working for a company. I've seen that individuals need leadership that knows and is very intimately versed in the mission of the company. That is invested in their employees. And investments from a learning and development perspective, as well as investing in them as a person. 

And, so, COVID has brought around this environment where we've merged lives. We had our work cells before we had our personal cells, and now those things have come together. I find that it's critically important to recognize and acknowledge that in people, and to support them down both avenues. And when someone feels invested in and developed, and they know the mission that they're marching towards. I feel that turnover is less and you can get around the big resignation.

Adam:            So I completely agree. As you continue to engage people, they will stay where they are. But, then, there's also the quiet ones who aren't really as engaged with what's happening. You can develop, and you can pour yourself into the people who are engaged and want to be there. But how do you grab those folks who are not quite there and want to be there?

Nykema:        So one of the things I do, personally, are one-on-one check-ins with my directs, and sometimes I do skip levels. You'd be amazed that for those quieter ones, how much they open up in a one-on-one environment. I think people need to know from leadership, and I feel like sometimes we get lost in our own trajectory and progression. We don't realize that as we rise in the ranks, there is a level of intimidation for people. So you need to make it an open-door policy, and you need to make people feel comfortable to come to you. And one way to do that is to develop relationships. 

But it takes a concerted effort on the leader to make time for that. Because it's not that time is on our side in a lot of situations, and COVID has created an additional barrier around that. Where people can't just pop in your office, they can't just see you in the hallway. They can't just strike up a conversation around the coffee machine. 

They have to be deliberate and intentional on making those relationships and fostering that along the way. And the only way to do that is to schedule the time. So that it can start to become organic. Where they feel more comfortable with their relationship, with leadership, and they'll come to you naturally.

Adam:            Yes, it's almost like you need to create some open-door Zoom call or open-door office hours on Teams, where people can just pop in at any time. Where they're able to do that, and the technology is out there. And how has technology helped you in the midst of the COVID era and able to reach out to people?

Nykema:        So, for me, COVID has opened up a whole universe of additional time, for me, it's saved me a commute. So I've been able to use technology, in a way, to connect with people, and I make it less transactional. So some folks get a little intimidated by being on screen. 

And, so, one thing that I've done is I don't multitask while I'm on calls. I silence my email so that I can really focus on individuals. And with the use of technology, we're able to do teaming events virtually. Sometimes we'll do happy hours, where we'll send a bottle of wine to individuals. I haven't done that on my current team, so don't tell them. 

But in the past, I've sent bottles of wine, or if there's something that they like around coffee, or something, gourmet, I would send that, and then we would have a virtual outing. And it gives people the flexibility to still be there for their families, and their children, and whatever extracurricular activities that they have. But we can, literally, pick any time of the day to do this now. Versus sequestering it to the end of the day.

Adam:            Yes, our team did a virtual wine and painting. Where they sent the wine and the painting thing, and then the person did it through Zoom and show us. And we'd all sit there painting, and drinking our wine, and it was actually quite fun. More fun than I realized it would be, doing it virtually. I never thought it could be like that.

Nykema:        Absolutely.

Adam:            Do you have any other examples of how you've been able to develop your team, in the midst of the COVID era. Even before the COVID era, where it was difficult for the team members to connect.

Nykema:        So one th...