Stay tuned at the end of the episode for my personal favorite suggestion for Denver. Hint: it’s the perfect place for a nightcap or to end your trip.

In this episode of Beer Travelers, we discuss all that the city has to offer in this episode so let’s start our trip to Denver, Colorado with Tristan Chan and Jonathan Shikes.

This Episode is Sponsored by:

Pub Culture Beercations

Stop living vicariously through other people's social media posts and get out and make some memories of your own! Join Pub Culture Beercations for one of our upcoming tours and start exploring the world one pint at a time with us. Visit PubCultureBeercations.com for more information.

For original articles or to read the vast archives or to check out All About Beer.  follow us on Twitter @allaboutbeer and Instagram @allaboutbeer. Support Journalism by visiting our Patreon Page.

• Host: Andy Crouch
• Guests: Tristan Chan and Jonathan Shikes
• Sponsor: Pub Culture Beercations
• Tags: Denver beer, Bierstadt Lagerhaus, Avery Brewing

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This Episode is Sponsored by:

Athletic Brewing Company
Athletic Brewing Company’s award-winning, craft, non-alcoholic beers are fit for all times. Down time, work time, game time, even gym time. Pick a time and grab an Athletic, because it’s about time you could enjoy a great-tasting brew, any time you want. Even right now. Head to athleticbrewing.com and get some fresh brews delivered. New customers can even get 20% off with code AllAboutBeer20 and free shipping on two 6-packs or more.

For original articles or to read the vast archives or to check out All About Beer.  follow us on Twitter @allaboutbeer and Instagram @allaboutbeer. Support Journalism by visiting our Patreon Page.

• Hosts: Em Sauter and Don Tse
• Guest: Kevin Davey of Wayfinder Beer
• Sponsors: Athletic Brewing Co.
• Tags: Cold IPA, Oregon, Lager, Hops, Brewing

The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Awesome Call by Kevin MacLeod
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/3399-awesome-call
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Artist website: https://incompetech.com

And the second half of this interview is also unlikely to bore you. In fact, Melissa delivers a devastating indictment of BrewDog amidst all the scandals swirling around the company. These controversies, which seem to multiply week after week, involve a host of issues including allegations of an abusive and harmful corporate culture, poor treatment of workers, surveillance of employees and critics, and mistreatment of females. 

It can be difficult to get your arms around the issues facing BrewDog as they seem to pile on more as time goes on. 

For this week, we continue our chat with Melissa, who has covered BrewDog for more than a decade. And we start at the beginning, including her first memories of meeting BrewDog's co-founder James Watt and how her impressions of him and the company evolved over time. A word of warning for listeners. We discuss some sensitive issues in this episode, including physical abuse, harassment, and sexism. Listener discretion is advised. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Melissa Cole
Sponsors: Lallemand, All About Beer

Melissa’s work is similarly colorful and a bit hard to characterize. She appears to have transcended the role of journalist and become somewhat of a presenter, as the Brits might say. She’s an accomplished author of several excellent books, a brewer of many collaboration beers, a widely respected international judge of beers, a frequent television guest offering both piercing and critical social commentary, related to beer, but also an accomplished speaker about food and tasting. 

Melissa is also a powerful advocate for classic styles, British beer excellence, but most importantly, for equality and calling out bad behavior by boorish breweries. Recently, she has been in the media quite a bit for her continuing criticism of BrewDog and its corporate culture and its treatment of workers and females. We’ll get into this subject in detail in the second part of our conversation next week.

But for this week, we discuss Melissa’s background, her books, and her secrets to pairing beer and food. 

We conducted this interview via Zoom and I spent most of the session with a huge smile on my face or laughing. Next week’s episode concluding our interview with Melissa will be a bit more serious. But for this week, let’s get to the first half of my conversation with the indefatigable Melissa Cole.  

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Melissa Cole
Sponsors: Lallemand

A native of Ireland, Eoghan now lives with his family in Brussels, working as a freelance writer, author, and podcaster. He is the founder of Brussels Beer City—a blog about the Belgian capital city’s beers, bars, and brewing traditions. He’s also the host of the Brussels Beer City Podcast. And he’s racked up a number of impressive awards with his work, including being named the British Guild of Beer Writers Young Beer Writer of 2018.

But it is his occasional social media posts talking about the challenges of parenting his two young kids that made me feel more seen. He’s as happy to discuss the struggles as a father as he is to celebrate the successes, however big or small. And I definitely connect with that. As the father of two young kids, I’m very familiar with the ups and downs, the good and the bad, and how you can feel pulled in a million different directions, torn between the personal and the professional, all while feeling like you’re not doing well at either. 

Especially during times when we’ve been forced inside or away from others for so long, Eoghan’s Twitter posts about his adventures in parenting help me appreciate that others are trying to navigate the same issues and finding it exhausting all the while. 

So earlier this week, Eoghan put his kids to bed, climbed into this chilly attic, and joined me on an international Zoom call to chat. We talk a lot about parenting, the challenges you face as a freelancer with kids, and how easy it is to lose your identity after becoming a parent. 

A natural raconteur, affable and self-effacing, Eoghan also discusses his beer writing career, how he came to live in Brussels, whether Belgium’s grand beer traditions can survive hazy IPAs and the march of modernity, and whether Yvan de Baets is the most important person in the Belgian beer scene. 

Eoghan also uses the show to announce some news, but I’d let him talk about that. Here is my conversation with beer writer, author, and podcaster Eoghan Walsh.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Eoghan Walsh
Sponsors: Lallemand

In this episode, we compare the US and UK beer scenes, discuss Matt’s excellent new book, Modern British Beer, and discuss how joy is the central message and lens through which he translates the world of beer to his audiences. We also discuss how Pete Brown robbed him, his words, at the recent British Guild of Beer Writers awards and how he feels about awards generally in light of his recent experiences. We also discuss his plans for the future of Pellicle and as a writer. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Matthew Curtis
Sponsors: Arryved

Matthew Curtis stands in the middle of all of this. He started writing about beer long enough ago that he has seen a few things. But he’s also not so deep in the game that he can’t see the value of supporting new voices. He started as a blogger, working on his voice and technique. He eventually parlayed that into some freelance work, including at Good Beer Hunting, where I first recall encountering his writing. He added photography to his portfolio of talents and adorned his well crafted pieces with striking photos of their subjects. His photos imbue substantial character into the tiniest of subjects, a clamp or hose in a brewery cellar, the way light lands on a dusty barrel filled with wild ale. 

After deciding to turn his freelance hobby into a full time gig, Matt did what I wish so many others would do. He picked his head up, looked around, and plotted an intentional path forward. He wasn’t happy writing the same old pieces for the same old publications. He wanted to express himself in new ways, new formats, and to give others the opportunity to discover and amplify their own voices. 

So in 2019, Matt founded the online drinks, food, and travel site Pellicle with co-founder and brewer Jonny Hamilton. Based in the UK, Matt and Johnny had a clear vision of what they wanted to capture in the worlds of beer, cider, wine, and food among other subjects. The central directional principle behind Pellicle is one that is often absent from so much similarly focused writing: finding joy with the cultures they cover. Over time, Pellicle has evolved into a website delivering weekly in-depth dives into people, places, and drinks, an occasional podcast of the same name, one that delightfully meanders between interviews and long monologues of Matt’s own thinking, and occasional events. All told, they aim to capture the “joie de vivre we so often find within our favourite cultures. This might be at a favourite bar or restaurant, adjacent to a steaming brewhouse, or within an orchard or vineyard. At Pellicle, we hope to take you there with us.”

As you’ll hear me say during the interview, which we’ll present to you in two parts, I have been a Patreon subscriber of Pellicle for some time and I’d encourage others to do so as well. I support beer media and believe there should be dozens more publications bringing great beer content to a thirsty world. 

Pellicle remains a shining example of what can happen when two people get together with a vision and help enlist and raise up others in support of their collective mission.

In our discussion, which we conducted over a long Zoom call, Matt and I discuss his back story, how he developed a love of beer while visiting his ex-pat father who now lives in the United States, and we delve further into the work at Pellicle. We also discuss one of my favorite recent pieces of beer writing, his long and lovely profile of Dann Paquette and Martha Holley, once of Pretty Things Beer and Ale Project here in Boston and now of St. Mars of the Desert in Sheffield, England. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Matthew Curtis
Sponsors: Arryved - Lallemand

When my guest today first met her future husband, they were 16 years old and attending the same high school in Massachusetts. He would soon be booted out of that school but their relationship remained strong. When years later he floated the idea of opening a brewery, the two would help build the brewery together. 

The story of Dogfish Head is one we’ve heard many times before, often told by its very familiar co-founder and front man, Sam Calagione. But it is his partner, the less public face of the business, Mariah Calagione, who deserves a lot of credit for Dogfish Head’s success. As she writes in the brewery’s new book, “Sam often calls himself Dogfish Head’s analog storyteller and often refers to me as our digital storyteller. He’s the extroverted storyteller in front of the audience or at the event. I’ve been the introverted storyteller, behind the screen and the camera lens.” As Mariah goes on to note, the dynamic works and helped shape Dogfish into the powerhouse it is today. 

After high school, Mariah went on to Brown University where she studied public policy with a focus on its interplay with the media. After school, Mariah went to work for a local television station, working on the assignment desk and doing a variety of tasks. For her, it was taking up the family business as her father Tom owned a TV station and some radio stations in Delaware. 

For his part, Sam was trying to become a writer or a teacher. But by the end of college, his passion for beer and brewing took over. After some back and forth, the couple eventually settled on opening up shop in Mariah’s home state of Delaware, specifically Rehoboth Beach. 

And when Mariah joined Dogfish full time in 1997, she thought her marketing background would come in handy. Instead, she should’ve taken business administration classes. She took care of the accounting and payroll, none of which she had experience in.

But that’s how it is for small family run businesses. You end up doing everything. And one of the things it turns out she excels at is crafting a message for Dogfish Head’s social media channels. She’ll tell us about the early days of her online experiences at Dogfish, why fans of the brand kept setting up and giving them Dogfish Head accounts, and how to deal with the ups and downs that come with the job. We also talk about her new role as Social Impact Leader at Boston Beer, how the new Dogfish Head Book, 26 Years of Off-centered Adventures came to be, and what the future holds for both her and Sam.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Mariah Calagione
Sponsors: Arryved - Lallemand

It’s hard to capture the essence of a writer in a spoken word podcast but I’ve done my best in these two interviews, hoping to do justice to Joe and his work. If you’ve enjoyed listening to Joe and his thoughts about beer, I’d highly recommend you check out his entirely too short-lived podcast, One More Road For the Beer, which he co-hosted with fellow beer and travel writer Zach Johnston. It only lasted for 10 episodes but it was glorious and we talked a bit about it and whether it might one day return. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Joe Stange
Sponsors: Arryved 

Joe is one of my favorite people in the beer world. He’s a writer’s writer. Clever, smart, thorough, and thoughtful. At times intense, focused, but also given to a sort of knowing humor, he’s an entirely enjoyable drinking partner. While Joe is serious about beer, dedicated to it in a way that is not just ephemeral or about the alcohol or the scene, he also knows its place and not to take it too seriously. 

Joe is a trained journalist, having received a proper education at one of the country’s best journalism schools, Mizzou, and trained at the Associated Press. And while his background provided him with a solid foundation on which to build his freelancing and writer career, it was his wife Kelly’s career that in a roundabout way led to his work as a beer journalist. 

Kelly has long worked as a diplomat with the US Department of Agriculture, helping to promote and protect American interests abroad. And her work has taken their family to Brussels, Costa Rica, Berlin, and now Bangkok. It was this first location, Brussels, where Joe really became involved in the beer world. 

He developed a love of Belgian beer and began writing about it, eventually leading to his work as a co-author with Tim Webb of the excellent Good Beer Guide Belgium. Joe would go on to write another book, Around Brussels in 80 Beers, and contribute to many magazines. He’s now the managing editor of Craft Beer & Brewing.

Joe was locked down in quarantine for several weeks after arriving in Bangkok, and it was late his time and very early mine when we connected via Zoom for our chat. We haven’t seen each other in a couple of years and so our conversation ran more than twice as long as I expected. So we’re going to break our conversation up into two episodes. On this first one, Joe and I talk about the experience of being a diplomatic spouse, about what it was like to return to the states after so long abroad, and how he came to contemplate and capture the essence of a tree during the pandemic. We also talk about his passion for writing about the technical side of brewing, whether lagers and saisons will ever truly have their day, and about tradition, style, and whether the classic beer bar can survive. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Joe Stange
Sponsors: Arryved 

We talk a lot about craft beer on this podcast but we rarely delve into the world of big beer. Today we’re fortunate to speak with Paul Verdu, whose career in the beer business has taken him around the world and offered him a rare view of both the craft and big beer spheres. He’s long worked in the CPG space, originally selling bug killers and air fresheners before moving on to work for Miller. We go through his background and what got him into the beer industry, the pains of the failed launch of Saint Archer’s Gold in the face of a pandemic, and Tenth and Blake’s intriguing investment into a brewery that employs active gang members in an attempt to quell gang violence. 

We also talk about my favorite subject, pilsner, discussing the future of Pilsner Urquell in the US, and why Barmen Pils is secretly one of the best lagers in the states.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Paul Verdu
Sponsors: Arryved 

Her career is a melange of multimedia endeavors. After focusing on audio and video editing, she graduated with a degree in film. She didn’t plan on being a journalist but her background skills set her up perfectly for the new coming age of reporting and social media. 

She started her career working at the Austin-American Statesman in Texas after college. Living, working, and drinking in Austin, Emma had a front row seat for the nascent cocktail scene growing in the city. She reported on all things drinks there, shooting photos and video to accompany her articles, years before this would become regular practice in the industry. Emma then moved to Chicago, where she worked as a freelance writer, which is where she started focusing more on beer. She then got a job with Imbibe Magazine as the digital content editor. 

Emma is responsible for everything you see on Imbibe’s website. She runs the editorial calendar, helps select and write stories, shoots photos, sources and curates recipes for the publication. She’s also the author of several books, including Mezcal: The History, Craft and Cocktails of the World's Ultimate Artisanal Spirit, which was nominated for a James Beard Foundation award in 2018. Her latest book, a collaboration with co-author Julia Momose of Kumiko in Chicago, is The Way of the Cocktail: Japanese Traditions, Techniques, and Recipes.

We don’t talk a lot about beer in this episode, though there is some. We’re mainly talking about booze this week, about how little I understand and appreciate mezcal, the beauty and art of Japanese bar culture, how much we both miss travel, and whether the RTD and NA spirits trends have legs. 

We also talk a lot about the business of journalism in the modern age. Emma offers advice on how to take better photos of your drinks. And we talk about how to maintain a healthy work life balance and the importance of re-energizing your creativity in the face of the burnout that so many of us are facing.

We start this week by talking about the state of alcohol journalism and how her employer, Imbibe Magazine, has managed to succeed where so many others have tripped up. And how the romance of the printed page endures.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Emma Janzen
Sponsors: Arryved - Novozymes

At first glance, Brendan Watters seems to be quite a character. With his Australian accent, wide brimmed outback hat, and mile wide smile, Brendan appears on the surface an unlikely person to purchase a brewery once valued at a cool billion dollars. But the aphorism about books and covers should be kept in mind. Because behind the camp is a successful, credentialed businessman with the right timing and connections to get this deal done. 

He has recommitted the company to the local San Diego market and is building back the loyalty and respect of San Diegans piece by piece. And by most accounts, this improbable story appears on the way to a happier ending. Local beer writers are impressed with how Brendan and his team have operated Ballast Point and with their future plans. 

Two years on, the Ballast Point story continues to evolve and Brendan is at the center of it. And he’s not done yet. While he plays a bit coy about future prospects, Brendan and his team appear ready to continue purchasing craft breweries in the years to come.

In this episode, Brendan and I discuss his background in business and why he and his partner Chris Bradley started Kings and Convicts in their putative retirement, how the Ballast Point sale came to be, and how he and his partners have worked to regain the trust of Ballast Point’s employees and consumers.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Brendan Watters
Sponsors: Arryved - Novozymes

San Diego is one of those beer cities that has incredible significance in the history of American craft beer. Heavyweights such as Stone, Port Brewing, the Lost Abbey, Alesmith, and others helped define what beer could be. But beer drinkers are a fickle lot and many of these OG breweries are struggling to redefine themselves in the new world of craft beer. Staying relevant isn’t easy, especially when you’ve been in the game a while. And while these folks try to figure out whether dry, bitter West Coast IPAs have any place in our new hazy world order, the undeniably positive side to all of this is all of the new voices we’re getting to hear from. 

For San Diegan Chris, beer education is the key to keeping the audience engaged.

Chris uses his popular Instagram account (chris.thebeereducator) to promote knowledge about craft beer and to deepen connections to beer. Education is core to Chris’s beer identity, both personally and professionally. Through his hard work he’s even managed to achieve the Advanced Cicerone designation after studying on bus rides to his beer job. 

When the pandemic hit, Chris had to figure out how to migrate his beer education efforts, which had largely relied on tangible and in person events, to a new reality of learning at a distance. With the blessing and support of his employer, Pure Project, Chris took to hosting Instagram Live events and started a Virtual Book Club. Focused on taking his audience through beer writer Jeff Alworth’s The Beer Bible, Chris teamed up with a local beer store, Bottlecraft, to curate a monthly six-pack to accompany each episode of his book club. He also worked with Alworth’s publisher, Workman, to provide e-copies of the book to his audience at a discount.

His education efforts are engaging, interesting, and creative, just the kind of energy that craft beer needs to sustain itself in an uncertain future. 

In our conversation, Chris and I discuss his beer education efforts, his success on social media, how he manages to avoid burning out when things get tough, and what makes a good tour guide. I start Chris out with a tough question and it leads to a loooooong pause in his response and some confusion. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Chris Leguizamon

My guest today is Tara Nurin, a longtime beer writer and the author of the upcoming book, “A Woman's Place Is in the Brewhouse A Forgotten History of Alewives, Brewsters, Witches and CEOs.” A former television writer and reporter, Tara transitioned to writing about beer and travel when she saw both on the rise. She now works as a freelance writer who covers lifestyle trends with a focus on craft beer, alcohol, and culinary tourism. She is perhaps best known as the beer and spirits contributor to Forbes. I’ve always been curious about how Forbes.com works and Tara goes into substantial detail about the inner workings of that relationship. As a writer, and hopefully for those in the audience, it’s a fascinating listen and gives insight into what the Forbes name really means. 

A self-described “lifelong feminist,” Tara’s work has often focused on women in the craft beer industry. She candidly acknowledges having fallen into many of the traps that befall reporters covering women in brewing, like asking them what it was like to be a female brewer in a male dominated industry. After getting push back from female brewers, Tara soon realized the subject was far deeper and nuanced. 

In addition to her writing, Tara also does marketing for several beverage related companies, and we talk about the tricky ethics of balancing both sides. 

And for those who think this episode is only about wonky journalism talk, think again. Tara’s soon to be released book is an enjoyable read that uncovers the stories and forgotten history of some of the women founders in the early days of craft beer. 

Here is my candid and often opinionated discussion with beer writer and author Tara Nurin.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Tara Nurin

Smart, dynamic, and funny, and with a deep-seeded passion for continuous improvement, Esther Tetreault was destined to run Trillium Brewing, the business she started with her husband JC in 2013. And while JC collects all the accolades for the beers he creates, it’s Esther who literally runs the show. And quite a show it has become. 

Entrepreneurship is rooted deep into Esther’s essence and Trillium is the perfect vessel into which to pour her considerable talents. She and JC have grown their once tiny nano operation into one of the most unlikely success stories in craft beer. Trillium is somehow only 8 years old but in that time, it has expanded exponentially, growing into a mini-empire. And that’s the result of this partnership between its founders, one on the creative side, one on the business end. 

The story behind Trillium’s founding and rise is a good one. Starting in a tiny space that was never meant for brewing in downtown Boston, Trillium has grown to multiple locations throughout greater Boston. Esther and I discuss what it’s like to be on a non-stop rollercoaster of growth and expansion, whether Boston is a great beer city, and what the future holds for her Mrs. Trillium brand.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Esther Tetreault

This week we have one of the most dialed in people following the San Diego beer scene. Beer writer and marketer Brandon Hernández has been deeply plugged into the southern California beer scene for more than a decade. He has helped direct marketing at some of the area’s best known breweries, including Stone, Alesmith, and Societe. In 2019, the long-time writer decided to focus his efforts on creating a new interactive resource for fans of the area’s beer scene with the founding of San Diego Beer News. 

The site is a bit of a throwback to the earlier days of beer blogs and local brewspapers. Instead of doing deep dives into broad, weighty topics of national import, Brandon focuses on providing detailed and tangible information about San Diego breweries and beer bars. SD Beer News offers brewery maps, tap lists, interviews with local brewers and beer players, and lots of local beer news. 

A native San Diegan, Brandon is one of the most informed sources you’re going to find about that beer scene. And despite having worked for several local breweries and generally trying to promote San Diego beer, he’s not afraid to express opinions and offer critical thoughts as he does throughout this interview. It’s a refreshing break from so much retread that so often constitutes beer writing today. He also opens up in personal terms about some sensitive topics, including his own experience with sexual harassment at the hands of a local brewery owner. 

We also chat about the roller coaster that has been San Diego beer in recent years, touching on Ballast Point, Stone, Alpine Brewing, and the reckoning involving Modern Times and others.

Here is my conversation with writer and San Diego beer ambassador Brandon Hernandez. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Source Brewing Company

We talk with Greg Taylor about Source Brewing Company's Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, which offers underrepresented groups the opportunity to receive a world class education from the Siebel Institute in Chicago. Source is also proud to announce the opening of its second location, in the Fishtown neighborhood of Philadelphia. If you are interested in the Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, or are interested in working at Source in Philly, reach out to scholarshipcareers@sourcebrewing.com.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guests: Brandon Hernández
Sponsor: Source Brewing Company - Facebook: @sourcebrewing - Instagram: @sourcebrewing

But then there are writers like my guest today. 

Norm Miller has been a professional journalist for almost 20 years, having worked at the same paper in Central Massachusetts that entire time. He’s from the region, and indeed lives in the house he grew up in. He jokes that there’s not much to do around there other than apple picking and some fishing. 

Norm was a little hesitant to be interviewed and as a fellow journalist, I get that. We’re used to asking the questions and it can be a little uncomfortable handing the recorder to someone else. But I’m happy he agreed to chat as he’s a colorful character with some great stories to tell. 

Norm is an interesting guy, so it’s easy to see why Wormtown Brewery in Worcester, Massachusetts decided to name a beer after him. It’s a great story that matches a great beer and he tells it in this interview.

Norm and I have known each other for a long time and we have some unusual things in common. First, we’re both trained journalists, folks for whom writing and and reporting are not just a passion but ingrained in ourselves. We’ve both written books about Massachusetts breweries. And as longtime beer writers, we’ve both covered beer in New England for decades. But we also have another connection, one I don’t often discuss. Beyond my work as a beer writer, my more full-time gig is as a criminal defense attorney in the Boston area. And Norm’s primary beat has long been crime and the justice system. We both speak a language unique to the courts and the Commonwealth, we know a lot of people in common, including lawyers, judges, and even defendants. And we both know it’s never a boring day in the world of crime.

He’s been covering it for almost 20 years for the MetroWest Daily News. He’s covered a lot of serious crimes, including murders, and too many trials to count. We talk about his experiences as a crime reporter, and how he wants to evolve his reporting beyond simply the details of day to day offenses. Norm wants to more deeply report on why these crimes are happening, their underpinnings, and he is also growing increasingly concerned about the ethics of reporting on crime in an age where the Internet never forgets. 

For a reporter at a reasonably small market paper, Norm has a knack for going viral. His first experience with Internet fame came as part of a crazy few minutes he had at a local police station when a woman came in and threw bacon against the reception window. He talks about what that was like and the experience of going viral.

More recently, however, Norm went viral for the column he wrote when he retired as a beer writer. The column garnered coverage around the globe because of its candid nature. Norm wrote that he was giving up beer writing because he needed to stop drinking. He talked about the impact his tasting was having on both his physical and mental health. It was a bold and honest piece of writing and should be required reading for everyone in the beer industry. Spend anytime at a beer event or industry get together and it quickly becomes obvious that some and perhaps many in the beer business have an unhealthy relationship with the product they sell. Whether it’s overconsumption, drinking and driving, or forgiving behavior that would otherwise be unforgivable but for the presence of alcohol, it’s the third rail of the American beer business, one that few dare to touch. But Norm’s column dared to go there and we discuss it and his present thoughts on the issue in our conversation.

We also talk about his star turns as a television commentator on Nancy Grace, his love of 80s slasher films, and what it's like to work in the trenches on the police beat for so many years. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Source Brewing Company

We talk with Greg Taylor about Source Brewing Company's Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, which offers underrepresented groups the opportunity to receive a world class education from the Siebel Institute in Chicago. Source is also proud to announce the opening of its second location, in the Fishtown neighborhood of Philadelphia. If you are interested in the Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, or are interested in working at Source in Philly, reach out to scholarshipcareers@sourcebrewing.com.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guests: Norm Miller
Sponsor: Source Brewing Company - Facebook: @sourcebrewing - Instagram: @sourcebrewing

You might wonder how a trained actor and theater director found his way to writing about the business of beer. Well, as you’ll hear Chris tell it, Beer Marketers is a 50 year old company, a true family run operation, founded by Jerry Steinman. His son Benj, a fixture in his own right in the beer business, followed in his dad’s footsteps and now runs the show. And for more than 40 years, Eric Shepard, Chris’s dad, has been working with the Steinman's. Eric, who I’ve had the pleasure of sharing beers with, is the VP/Executive Editor and joined BMI in 1977.

BMI is one of the oldest and longest running beer publications out there, certainly on the trade audience side of things. The company produces a handful of newsletters targeted at the broader beer industry as well as sponsoring conferences. BMI is a critical voice in the beer trade but it long focused almost exclusively on the big players for its largely wholesaler audience. But in recent years, the company has moved to expand its reach. One of the most prominent craft focused efforts has been Craft Brew News, which Chris writes and edits along with Benj’s son David. See, a true family operation spanning three generations.

Chris is one of my favorite people in the beer world. With more than 11 years covering the beer industry, he’s smart, compassionate, and thoughtful. We sadly only get to see each other once or twice a year, at beer events like the GABF or the Craft Brewers Conference. As you’ll soon hear, he’s an exciting voice in the world of craft beer and I’m looking forward to our next beer together.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Source Brewing Company

We talk with Greg Taylor about Source Brewing Company's Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, which offers underrepresented groups the opportunity to receive a world class education from the Siebel Institute in Chicago. Source is also proud to announce the opening of its second location, in the Fishtown neighborhood of Philadelphia. If you are interested in the Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, or are interested in working at Source in Philly, reach out to scholarshipcareers@sourcebrewing.com.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guests: Chris Shepard
Sponsor: Source Brewing Company - Facebook: @sourcebrewing - Instagram: @sourcebrewing

From the beginning, Dogfish established a reputation for innovation. Sam famously used non-traditional ingredients to brew a wide range of unusual and creative beers. To be sure, he was a master marketer but one whose core philosophy was always tied to making the best beer possible. 

As Dogfish Head continued to grow, so did Sam’s reputation and role as a statesman and ambassador for craft beer at large. And during this time, Dogfish Head were friendly competitors with another brewery run by a gregarious and colorful spokesman for craft beer in Boston Beer’s Jim Koch. The two breweries battled it out for a while there for the title of world’s strongest beer in the alcohol arms race of the mid 2000s and were frequently featured together in media about craft beer. 

Fast forward to 2019, almost 25 years into Dogfish Head’s journey, Sam and his wife sold the brewery to Boston Beer. The news surprised many in the world of craft beer but it makes sense when you consider the long standing relationship and respect shared by the two men. 

Now Sam has gone from running the smallest commercial brewery in the country to helping run one of the largest. He’s gone from brewing a few gallons of beer at a time to being worth hundreds of millions of dollars. It has been a crazy ride. 

So from a porch in coastal Maine, we catch up with Sam to talk about the deal with Boston Beer two years on, Dogfish Head’s recent innovations including in non-alcoholic beer, and whether the Brewers Association has provided enough leadership in the areas of racism and sexism within the craft beer industry. I also unearth a never before seen television series that Sam wanted to pitch with Michael Jackson and we discuss whether beer can ever work on television. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Source Brewing Company

We talk with Greg Taylor about Source Brewing Company's Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, which offers underrepresented groups the opportunity to receive a world class education from the Siebel Institute in Chicago. Source is also proud to announce the opening of its second location, in the Fishtown neighborhood of Philadelphia. If you are interested in the Inclusion & Diversity Scholarship, or are interested in working at Source in Philly, reach out to scholarshipcareers@sourcebrewing.com.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guests: Sam Calagione
Sponsor: Source Brewing Company - Facebook: @sourcebrewing - Instagram: @sourcebrewing
Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos 

Before COVID hit, Hop Culture planned to host a dozen fests around the country in 2020. But the pandemic grounded those plans. After running the business for four years and in the midst of a pandemic, Kenny made a key realization that many reluctant or unexpected founders fail to appreciate: he wasn’t built to scale his own business. He preferred working on the creative aspects of the business. So he decided it was time to find a partner. So in late 2020, Kenny found one in Next Glass, parent company of Untappd, Beer Advocate, and Ozner. 

Kenny recently moved back to his hometown of Pittsburgh from New York City, another pandemic influenced decision. At Next Glass, Kenny is now the creative director for the company’s growing list of brands, including one time competitor Beer Advocate. In this role, Kenny helps direct branding for Untappd and BA as well as for Untappd’s business clients as well as continuing Hop Culture’s successful event and merchandising elements. 

In our conversation, we discuss Next Glass’s plans for the future, including its direct to consumer plays, and where he hopes the company’s brands go. We also discuss our mutual love of Pittsburgh and its distinctive beer scene. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guests: Kenny Gould
Tags: beer, craft beer, Kenny Gould, Untappd, Beer Advocate, Next Glass, Pittsburgh craft beer
Sponsor: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos 

Samer Khudairi certainly qualifies as one of those new voices. Based here in my home city of Boston, Samer has worked with breweries such as Jack’s Abby on its digital marketing efforts. He’s also a writer who covers design, music, action sports, and craft beer. It’s the last of those that caught my attention, including a long form piece exploring his own Iraqi family’s unlikely history with brewing. He’s also written lovely, intricate profiles of quirky beer industry personalities, such as Chris Lively of Ebenezer's Pub in Maine.

As you’ll hear in this wide ranging discussion, Samer is excited and passionate about craft beer, as interested in the business side of the industry as he is with the art and charm of the product itself. He’s a little excited and giddy about craft beer but also with a clear focus on what is important.

And while we’ve never met in person, he’s an engaging personality and someone I’m excited to have beers with when we get on the other side of the pandemic.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guests: Samer Khudairi
Tags: beer, craft beer, Samer Khudairi, Boston craft beer
Sponsors: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos and Bolide Communications 

Chalonda founded the Chicago chapter of Girls Pint Out,  a national craft beer organization that seeks to build a community of women who love craft beer. Many in the beer industry got to know Chalonda when in September of 2019, she received a message, filled with racist and sexist vitriol, including three uses of the N-word, and telling her that she had no business writing about beer. Most people would be forgiven for responding with expletives to such a racist troll, but Chalona took a different approach, writing “Well you seem so upset ... wanna have a beer and a discussion? I can’t take you serious when you hide behind technology.”

Her experience led to the creation of the powerful #IAmCraftBeer hashtag, that cascaded across social media with selfies and bios from people across the globe reminding us of the incredible diversity in craft beer. It was a beautiful moment in the face of naked bigotry. And Chalonda continues to move the conversation forward every day and week in her channels. 

I’ve known Chalonda’s husband, Nik, for probably a decade or more. I’m from Chicago and whenever I would be back visiting, I’d hit up some local beer bars or breweries. And nine times out of ten, I’d run into Nik at some point. He was like an unofficial ambassador in the Chicago craft beer scene and it was always great to catch up and have a few beers. Nik is a co-founder of Chicago Beer Geeks, which is a site dedicated to promoting beer events and locations around Chicago and surrounding suburbs. He also runs Chicago Beer Pass and the long-running podcast of the same name with his partner Brad, where they do deep dives into their favorite Chicago breweries and beers. 

By my mind, there are no two better people to catch up with to hear what’s happening in my hometown.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guests: Chalonda and Nik White
Tags: beer, craft beer, Chalonda White, Nik White, Afro Beer Chick, Chicago Beer Pass, Chicago craft beer
Sponsors: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos and Bolide Communications 

Ben moved out to Seattle a few years ago and Beer Advocate Magazine quietly faded from existence. He had a kid and spends a lot of time, as I do, balancing the joys and challenges of parenting and the rigors of trying to write words about beer during a pandemic. The loss of Beer Advocate Magazine, while sad, has given Ben the opportunity to write more. He regularly contributes to VinePair, Sip Magazine, Craft Beer and Brewing, and many others. We discuss some of his recent articles in our conversation and hear about how the Seattle beer scene has fared in the past year.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. And visit Beer Edge for more articles and engaging content.

Host: Andy Crouch
Guest: Ben Keene
Tags: beer, craft beer, Ben Keene, Seattle Beer, Beer Advocate
Sponsors: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos and Bolide Communications 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Host: Andy Crouch
• Guests: Neil Witte, Carla Jean Lauter, Josh Noel, and John Holl
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Portland Beer, Neil Witte, Carla Jean Lauter, Josh Noel
• Sponsor: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos

In this conversation, John and I get the gang back together, with Neil and Carla joining us. We’ve also invited our buddy Josh Noel of the Chicago Tribune back on the show. Josh is the author of the excellent, Barrel Aged Stout and Selling Out about the sale of Goose Island to Anheuser-Busch InBev. Folks, Christmas is coming up and this book makes a great holiday gift for your loved ones.

Carla is a beer writer based just outside of Portland, Maine, and the creator of the Is This Beer Name Idea Ok?, a flowchart that may save your brewery some serious social media fallout. And Neil is a Master Cicerone, a former Draft Quality Ambassador for the Brewers Association, and independent draft specialist and owner of TapStar.

We'll have part two of this conversation available in our next episode.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Host: Andy Crouch
• Guests: Neil Witte, Carla Jean Lauter, Josh Noel, and John Holl
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Portland Beer, Neil Witte, Carla Jean Lauter, Josh Noel
• Sponsor: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos

In the first episode, we talked with Pete about hockey, his relationship with his younger brother and partner Noah, and how their shared vision for the Bissell Brothers business developed and evolved over time.

In this episode, we dig a little deeper and wax a bit more philosophical about business, beer, and life. Bissell discusses his influences, both in the beer industry and business in general, the importance of having one thousand true fans, and why it’s important that some people hate you. 

Pete is an avid consumer of books on business and philosophy and he’s prioritized a rare combination of introspection and regularly taking in the view from 30,000 feet. The beer business moves quickly, even before COVID. Pivoting, responding, keeping your head down and grinding is the everyday reality for nearly every brewery owner. Too few take much time to consider their circumstances and consider how and whether to change them 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Host: Andy Crouch
• Guest: Peter Bissell
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Maine craft beer, Bissell Brothers Brewing, Peter Bissell
• Sponsor: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos

In this first episode of a two part series, we go deeper with co-founder Peter Bissell to capture more of the essence of Bissell Brothers and explore Peter’s engaging and introspective business philosophy.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Host: Andy Crouch
• Guest: Peter Bissell
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Maine craft beer, Bissell Brothers Brewing, Peter Bissell
• Sponsor: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos

In part two of the interview this week, we explore how Redner started to think about Cigar City’s future and what gave him second thoughts about navigating it alone. We go into detail about his thought process leading up to the sale of his brewery, his interactions with Anheuser-Busch and why that deal didn’t go through, and why going deeper into debt scared him. Redner tells us how the brewery eventually got so big that it grew beyond both his talents and interests. He always envisioned running a small, innovative brewery. And Cigar City was no longer a tiny operation. We also talk about Redner’s thoughts on the evolution of the American craft beer industry, how it has changed and changed him, his love of classic beer styles, how he hopes that Dunkel becomes the next rage. 

It bears repeating that this interview was recorded about a year ago, long before the pandemic. But it remains a pretty compelling listen. Here’s the second half of our conversation with Joey Redner.

For more Beer Edge Podcast or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Host: Andy Crouch 
• Guest: Joey Redner of Cigar City Brewing 
• Tags: Beer, Craft Beer, Florida, Anheuser-Busch, Cigar City Brewing
• Sponsor: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos

And Joey discovered a knack for capturing the attention, passion, and ultimately the dollars of craft beer geeks. The annual Hunahpu’s Day became a must attend event for beer geeks and helped influence the modern day ticker/trader movement.

In 2016, Redner faced a crossroads in determining how to manage the fast growing brewery’s future. His decision shocked many in the beer industry: he would sell the brewery to Oskar Blues Brewery and Fireman’s Capital. In this interview, Joey goes into great detail about the events leading up to the sale, including his unrequited flirtations with Anheuser-Busch, and what convinced him to sell.

To tell the story of the godfather of craft beer in Florida, now one of the nation’s most engaging beer scenes, we’re spreading it out over two episodes. In this first episode, we start with the early days of Cigar City and work our way up to just before the sale. In the next episode, we’ll talk in detail about the sale, how the brewery moved forward, and what the future holds for both Joey and Cigar City.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

Hosts: Andy Crouch
Guests: Joey Redner
Tags: beer, craft beer, Joey Redner, Cigar City Brewing, Florida beer
Sponsor: Arryved - Facebook: @arryved - Instagram: @arryved - Twitter: @arryved_pos

Yes, McCulla is a beer historian but she’s already heard all of your jokes. She’s got the greatest job in the world. She must drink beer all day long. How can you get her gig? One way to do it is through more than a decade of dedicated study and scholarship at Harvard. When the Smithsonian hired her in 2017, a bit of a media whirlwind followed, replete with good-natured ribbing and laughs about the position. But McCulla’s work provides a critical and much needed understanding of “how Americans have used material and visual culture to define race, ethnicity, and gender, especially in the realm of food and drink.” Specifically in her work as curator of the American Brewing History Initiative, McCulla collects objects, documents, and oral histories from the “talented women and men who make the American brewing industry the most creative in the world,” as she notes. This includes selecting and preserving key or curious items from American craft brewing history, including Papazian’s homebrewing paraphernalia. Contained in a museum that also displays Julia Child’s full kitchen, the American Brewing History Initiative is the first national-scale, scholarly effort to collect the histories of homebrewing and craft beer in the 20th and 21st-century United States.

Breweries in other countries have long made it a practice of preserving their beer histories. And while the biggest American breweries typically have private archives that are rarely open even to scholars, smaller craft breweries haven’t given much if any thought that what they were doing would be of interest to historians. McCulla is trying to change that mindset by collecting and displaying some of the industry’s historic items.

In our wide-ranging conversation, McCulla talks about homebrewing with her dad when she was a kid. We also discuss the importance of taking a broader approach to the history of beer and brewing in America, one told through a very different lens than what you usually read in modern beer histories. And we talk about what a museum based historian does when her museum is closed for months due to a pandemic.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch
• Guests: Theresa McCulla
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Theresa McCulla, National Museum of American History, American Brewing History Initiative, Charlie Papazian

Oliver stands in a unique position in the craft beer industry at this point in time. In one sense, he is a statesman for flavorful beer, one of its longtime and most popular advocates. He is a renowned author, a frequent speaker and teacher at events around the globe, and a James Beard award winner. In another, he is routinely one of the only Black people to be found at industry events, even those that have thousands of attendees. Lately, Oliver has been ruminating on the topic and he has a lot to say. 

During his many recent media interviews, Oliver has frequently noted that in his decades at Brooklyn, he had never had a black person apply for a brewing job there. At first, the line strikes you as a bit shocking. But after a few moments of reflection, you start to winder, “How is that possible?” Never had a single application? How did Brooklyn Brewery, located in one of the most diverse places on earth, let that go on for so long? It’s a question that Oliver is still grappling with and he discusses the issue at length in this interview. He also grapples with the criticism that his high standards, which require a formal brewing education for brew side staff, has served as a restrictive force, an act of gate keeping that kept out Black applicants. And while you will hear him contemplate the subject, you’re not going to hear him apologize for reaching for excellence in his staffing. 

In this interview, Oliver takes us all the way back to the beginning, talking about his upbringing in Hollis, Queens, and where he developed his special relationship with food. We also discuss the state of beer journalism, his thoughts on Dave Infante’s article on Black people in the beer industry that we discussed on last week’s podcast, and his plans for the Michael Jackson Foundation.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch
• Guests: Garrett Oliver
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Garrett Oliver, Michael Jackson Foundation. beer journalism, Dave Infante, Brooklyn Brewery

Infante has also written for the New York Times, the Guardian, and Huffington Post. But it was his work for Thrillist that gained him notice in the beer world. One article that he wrote in 2015, titled “There are almost no black people brewing craft beer. Here’s why.” netted him one of those Beard awards. That particular article has continued to reverberate around the craft beer world, including recently. It’s not usual that brewers remember something that a beer writer produces, but this particular piece stuck with Brooklyn Brewery Brewmaster Garrett Oliver who gently called out Infante by name in an Instagram post announcing the creation of the Michael Jackson Foundation for Brewing and Distilling. And in an unplanned twist, you’ll get to hear from both Infante and Oliver on back to back Beer Edge podcast episodes. They’ll discuss their interactions and opinions on the much heralded and challenged piece. Today we talk with Dave and next week we have Garrett on to discuss the Jackson Foundation and the Infante piece.

Infante somewhat recently moved from New York City to Charleston, South Carolina. He landed a gig as a part time writer for the local paper, the Post and Courier, where he covered booze and the local restaurant and food scenes. When COVID hit, he got laid off and returned to freelancing. And he’s now out with a new email newsletter covering drinking culture, being online, and beyond. It’s called Fingers (he’ll explain why in the episode), which you can subscribe to at fingers.substack.com. Go subscribe. So far he’s covered serious issues, such as racial diversity and inclusion in the beer industry as well as his open letter application to become White Claw’s new chief of marketing.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch
• Guests: Dave Infante, Fingers newsletter
• Tags: beer, craft beer, beer journalism, Dave Infante, Thrillist, Fingers, Garrett Oliver, Brooklyn Brewery

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch
• Guests: Julia Herz, former Craft Beer Program Director for the Brewers Association
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Julia Herz, Brewers Association

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: John Holl of Beer Edge 
• Tags: beer, craft beer, John Holl, Beer Edge

For Ben, everything had been building to this moment. The one where he leveraged his years of hard work, training, and study to help open a place of his own. He and his wife and business partner Karolina were ready. And then COVID-19 hit. A pandemic definitely wasn’t in the business plan.

Earlier this year, Ben and Karolina planned to open their new brewery and taproom, Otherlands Beer, in the town of Bellingham, Washington. COVID substantially delayed everything, from permitting to construction and sourcing necessary items as seemingly easy as hand soap. So Ben and Karolina built the taproom’s bar themselves. They brought in family to help paint and finish other odds and ends. They stressed over everything, from the small to the substantial. After COVID delayed their target opening date of early Spring, Otherlands finally opened to the public in late June.

Ben is supremely dedicated to the science of making better beer. He’s constantly seeking to improve himself and his craft. We spoke with Ben a few weeks back, before Otherlands opened, and you can hear the anxiety and concern of the unknown in his voice. If you’ve ever wondered who would dare open a new brewery in the midst of all this chaos, let us introduce you to Ben Howe of Otherlands Beer. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Ben Howe, CEO of Otherlands Beer
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Ben Howe, Otherlands Beer

And the person in charge of the entire association is Bob Pease (P-E-A-S). Bob has worked for the BA for nearly thirty years, helping run its operations before ascending to the vice president and chief operating officers position. In 2014, following the retirement of founder and longtime leader Charlie Papazian, Bob took over as CEO of the Brewers Association. In that role, he has helped the BA substantially grow its revenue, largely from events such as the Craft Brewers Conference and the Great American Beer Festival, but also by expanding membership. In his tenure, the BA has grown to become a nearly $30 million association. And its efforts on behalf of trade members and craft beer fans have grown substantially, including ramped up lobbying efforts in Congress and across state legislatures, broader craft beer education programs, and online.

The coronavirus has not spared the BA. With the cancellation of its signature events, CBC and GABF, comes the loss of a substantial portion of the association’s revenue. And with the virus continuing to rage and in person large scale events unlikely to return any time soon, Bob and the BA’s board of directors have had to make some very tough decisions. The BA has undertaken two rounds of staff layoffs including several very well-known individuals such as Julia Herz and Acacia Coast, among others. And Bob and the BA are having to plan for a very different future than they expected.

In our lengthy conversation, Bob walks us through the BA’s decision to cancel the CBC, what the association plans to focus on in the future now that its revenue has been slashed, he goes into detail about the hiring of beverage attorney Marc Sorini and he discusses the criticism that he has received from some members of the beer media for their coverage of this hiring at a time of other staff layoffs. Bob has also been the focal point for some criticism on social media for the BA’s handling of issues relating to diversity, inclusion, and racial justice. We spend a lot of time in the episode asking Bob some tough questions about the BA’s own diversity efforts, whether the BA should kick out breweries that have a demonstrated history of racist or otherwise objectionable behavior, and whether he believes the craft beer industry is inclusive.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Bob Pease, CEO of the Brewers Association
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Bob Pease, Brewers Association

Natalie is a long time industry veteran who has run Russian River with her husband Vinnie since 2003. While Vinnie gets a lot of the public love, Natalie runs the day to day operations and controls the business side of the brewery, which has grown considerably from its origins as a small pub in downtown Santa Rosa. In 2018, she and the Russian River team completed her dream brewery, opening a massive new production facility in Windsor. She is the recipient of the Brewers Association Recognition Award, which is presented each year to an individual or company whose inspiration, enthusiasm, and support have contributed to the craft brewing movement. In her work as a long time member of the California Craft Brewers Association, including two years as chair, she has a macro level view of the state of the craft beer industry in the nation’s biggest brewery state. In our discussion, we of course talk Pliny, how she and Vinnie thought they might lose their brewery to COVID-19, and how the industry still has work to do on issues of diversity and inclusion. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Natalie Cilurzo, the co-founder of Russian River Brewing
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Russian River Brewing, Pliny

Back in the days when you could visit a bar, it was a pretty common sight to watch someone, whether alone or with friends, quietly tapping away at the familiar yellow hued app. Searching for the beer they were drinking, tagging the location, maybe adding a photo, and clicking on the number of bottle caps out of five that they gave the beer. In the process, users earned badges as a fun way of marking their progress and in a way almost gamifying the beer drinking process.

Untappd has come in for plenty of criticism over the years, often from brewers steaming over a negative review. Others decry the so-called “ticker” culture where pubgoers spend more time on their phones checking in beers than interacting with others around them. Putting the criticisms aside though, Untappd is undoubtedly a force in the beer industry. And this once tiny upstart has now pretty clearly won the beer ratings site wars. It even now owns BeerAdvocate, which it purchased earlier this year.

Crouch recently spoke with co-founder Greg Avola about the development and history of Untappd, how he and his partners navigated the early days and secured funding and support for its substantial growth, and how COVID-19 has impacted its plans for 2020 and the future. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Greg Avola, the co-founder of Untappd
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Untappd, beer ratings, Beer Advocate, Greg Avola

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Khris Johnson, the co-founder and CEO of Green Bench Brewing
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Florida Beer, Green Bench Brewing, Khris Johnson

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Evan Sallee, the co-founder and CEO of Fair State Brewing Cooperative 
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Minnesota beer, Fair State Brewing Cooperative, Evan Sallee, George Floyd, Minnesota Craft Brewers Guild

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Josh Noel of the Chicago Tribune
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Chicago beer, Chicago Tribune, Josh Noel, Three Floyds 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: J Nikol Jackson-Beckham
• Tags: beer, craft beer, diversity, inclusion, Virginia craft beer, Brewers Association 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Chris Lohring 
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Salem, Massachusetts craft beer, COVID-19, Notch Brewing

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Deb Carey 
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Wisconsin craft beer, COVID-19, New Glarus Brewing Company

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Peter Bissell
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Maine craft beer, COVID-19, Bissell Brothers Brewing

Carl and his wife now operate a series of brewpubs and production facilities in Beijing and elsewhere in China. 

When COVID-19 broke out, Carl had some tough decisions to make. While he ran a sizable and growing brewery operation, his wife was also entering her third trimester and the couple learned they would have trouble accessing prenatal care. Accustomed to working remotely, they decided to return to his native Ohio to wait things out. Soon thereafter, the virus came to the states, China closed its borders to non-citizens, and he finds himself in Ohio until that policy is lifted. All the while, he and his wife are running a massive brewing operation from thousands of miles away. 

Having seen the virus for a few months more than American brewers have, Carl has some timely perspective that could help many American craft brewers deal with the current crisis. He also has some pretty engaging stories to tell about doing business in China. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Carl Setzer
• Tags: beer, craft beer, Chinese craft beer, COVID-19, Great Leap Brewing, Ohio beer, Beijing beer

Like every other brewery, his business has been impacted. But listening to him, in this conversation recorded on Thursday morning, just after the latest unemployment numbers came out, co-host John Holl was struck by how just a little bit of planning and a whole lot of thoughtfulness can help in the short term and then set up better footing in the long run. 

Regardless of where your brewery is or what it’s going through now, there are key takeaways from hearing Adam's perspective and important safeguards breweries can do to help their business for when it comes out of this crisis but before the next one strikes. 

The brewery's leaders planned for every possible scenario they could think of, from shutting down the tap room and starting to-go orders. This helped give them a bit of a head start.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Adam Robbings
• Tags: beer, craft beer, wholesalers, COVID-19, Reuben's Brews, Washington Beer, risk management

At the same time, many brewery owners are starting to consider the long term survivability of an extended shutdown that lasts not weeks but months. It’s been another sobering week. 

For some perspective, our guest today is Julie Verratti, co-founder of Denizen’s Brewing Company in Maryland. Julie has an impressive and multi-faceted background that provides her valuable experience in our current circumstances. An attorney, she has previously worked as a Presidential Management Fellow and senior advisor at the U.S. Small Business Administration, as a political organizer for the Human Rights Campaign, and a former candidate for the lieutenant governship in Maryland. In addition to running Denizens, Julie is also a member of the Board of Directors of the Brewers Association and is the chair of its diversity committee.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Julie Verrati
• Tags: beer, craft beer, wholesalers, COVID-19, Denizens Brewing, Julie Verratii, Maryland Beer

On this episode of the Beer Edge podcast, we examine the fluid nature of change in these unprecedented times. As business plans are being rewritten by the day and long-term plans remain uncertain, breweries are reaching out to the government – local, state, and federal - for relief. 

State brewing guilds have prepared letters that their members can send to their legislators asking for specific help, and a stimulus bill was passed on Capitol Hill that will hopefully offer some relief. 

This episode begins with co-host John Holl talking with Daniel J. Pische, a Senior Vice President at First American Bank, about the Small Business Administration offering low-interest loans to businesses and what that means for breweries. 

In the Beer Edge newsletter this week, John Holl wrote about a brewery that is maintaining its staff despite closing to the public. We also wrote about Nielsen's explosive off premise growth numbers.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Daniel J. Pische
• Tags: beer, craft beer, wholesalers, SBA, Tim Brady, Whetstone Station Restaurant and Brewery, Upstate Brewing Company, Atlas Brew Works, Holler Brewing, Ghostwood Brewing Company

While thousands of small breweries are struggling to stay afloat, a small number of larger breweries are actually poised to maintain their operations or even make gains. The craft beer industry’s tent has always been a bit ludicrous in its size, containing tiny 3 barrel nano breweries all the way up to relative behemoths like Boston Beer, Sierra Nevada, Yuengling, and New Belgium. But it is these latter breweries, ones with deep and wide distributor roots and strong infrastructures, that may be built to weather this storm.

In this episode, John Holl recently spoke with one such brewer, Larry Bell, founder and owner of Bell’s Brewery in Michigan. 

In the Beer Edge newsletter this week, Andy Crouch wrote about the new world of craft beer and what it means for its spirit of community. 

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Larry Bell
• Tags: beer, craft beer, wholesalers, COVID-19, Michigan, Bell's Brewery, Two Hearted IPA, Oberon

Welcome to the Beer Edge podcast, a look at the business and culture of beer. My partner John Holl and I originally envisioned a very different podcast but that too will have to wait. For now, we’ll be releasing at least one if not more episodes every week as the COVID-19 story continues to unfold. We’ve talked to many dozens of brewery owners, workers, distributors, bartenders, and others to gather their stories and take stock of where we are as an industry and where we’re headed.

In this episode, we talk with Max Toste, owner of one of Boston's best beer bars, Deep Ellum. We also catch up with Doug Veliky, the Chief Financial Officer for Revolution Brewing in Chicago.

For more information on the Beer Edge Podcast, or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Hosts: Andy Crouch and John Holl
• Guests: Max Toste and Doug Veliky
• Tags: beer, craft beer, legal, COVID-19, Illinois, Massachusetts, Deep Ellum, Revolution Brewing

Seems like not too long ago there were memes about Corona bottles wearing surgical masks and now we’re being asked to isolate at home. It’s a real threat that has come to our states and towns and it’s having a huge impact on the brewing industry. 

Breweries are being shut down and prohibited from operating their taprooms. Some are offering to go options to help bring some money in from the lost business. Others have already laid off or furloughed employees. 

Conferences like the annual Craft Brewers Conference and bi-annual World Beer Cup have been called off for this year. Festivals like Hunahpu's were canceled. 

It’s going to get worse.

As the economy suffers and more virus cases come to light, breweries could stay closed for weeks, months, or forever.  

The news is moving fast so it seemed odd to do just a regular show this week, so we are switching it up. 

Host John Holl has been talking with brewers from around the country as part of the Beer Edge coverage and has recorded a few of the interviews.

This episode starts with Patrick Rue from The Bruery. 

Then Andy Crouch chimes in with an interview he did with attorney Michael Boyer. 

 
After that the show heads down south to talk with Sean Lilly Wilson of Fullsteam Brewery and then wraps up welcoming back Andy so he and John can talk about what we have planned going forward – not only for this show but for Beer Edge coverage in general.

For more Drink Beer, Think Beer or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

• Host: John Holl
• Guests: Patrick Rue, Andy Crouch, Sean Lilly Wilson, and Michael Boyer
• Tags: beer, craft beer, legal, COVID-19, California, North Carolina, News