Building the Kingdom Together

Episode Summary

What if the future of the Church isn't built by a few influential leaders—but by thousands of faithful disciples being equipped where they already are?

In this episode, Joel Wayne sits down with Pastor Gary Campbell to discuss the heart behind Be The Church, the Spiritual Leadership Initiative (SLI), and why the local church remains God's primary strategy for developing spiritual leaders. Together they explore how God often brings together people, churches, and opportunities long before we recognize His plan.

Rather than asking, "How can we grow our church?" this conversation challenges us to ask, "How can we faithfully grow God's Kingdom?"

Whether you're a pastor, business leader, volunteer, or simply someone longing to make a greater Kingdom impact, this episode will encourage you to say yes to where God is already at work.

In this episode you'll learn:

• The vision behind Be The Church — Why churches are stronger when they partner together to raise up healthy disciples and leaders.
• Responding to God's movement instead of forcing your own — Learning to recognize where God is already working and joining Him there.
• Growing the Kingdom—not just our church — Why healthy churches look beyond themselves and invest in other churches and leaders.
• The Spiritual Leadership Initiative (SLI) — A new pathway designed to equip pastors, ministry leaders, and everyday believers with rich theological and leadership training inside the local church.
• The power of relationships in spiritual formation — Why disciples are shaped more through faithful people than isolated programs.
• Preparing before opportunity comes — Spiritual leadership isn't built overnight. It's formed through years of faithful obedience.
• The importance of saying "no" — How creating margin allows us to recognize and embrace God's greater invitations.
• Faithfulness before fruitfulness — Why God entrusts greater responsibility to those who remain faithful with what's already in front of them.
• Legacy through discipleship — Understanding the difference between influence and lasting Kingdom impact.

Practical Takeaways:

• Look for where God is already working. Instead of forcing opportunities, ask where God is inviting you to join His work.
• Invest in people, not just programs. Lasting Kingdom impact happens through relationships and discipleship.
• Create margin through wise "no's." Sometimes obedience requires letting go of good opportunities so you can embrace God's best.
• Commit to lifelong preparation. Spiritual leadership is formed through years of faithful study, prayer, and obedience—not overnight success.
• Become both a disciple and a disciple-maker. Ask who is investing in you—and who God is calling you to invest in.
• Raise the theological depth of your life. Whether you're called to ministry, business, or your home, growing in God's Word strengthens every area of influence.
• Measure success by Kingdom impact. Faithfulness isn't about building your platform—it's about advancing Christ's Kingdom.

Leave a Review and Subscribe
• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube
Connect With Us
• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Episode Summary

How do you move beyond simply reading the Bible to being transformed by it? In this episode, Joel Wayne sits down for a candid conversation about what it actually looks like to open the Word of God—not to master the text, but to be mastered by it. 

From personal devotional rhythms to the art of sermon preparation, Joel shares the practical habits and biblical convictions that have shaped his walk with Jesus, his leadership, and his preaching.

Whether you've followed Christ for decades or you're just beginning to engage Scripture, this conversation will challenge you to approach God's Word with humility, expectancy, and a desire for genuine transformation.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Joel's personal Bible study rhythm — Why reading the same passages repeatedly has shaped his heart more deeply than constantly chasing something new.
• Studying the movements of Scripture — How following larger sections of the Bible (like John 3–5 or Matthew 1–7) helps reveal the story God is telling and the character of Jesus.
• The questions Jesus asks — Why Joel pays close attention to Christ's questions and how they expose what's happening in our own hearts.
• People of faith vs. people with answers — A challenging conversation about our tendency to admire certainty more than genuine dependence on God.
• "I want the text to master me." — Joel explains why Scripture should shape us rather than simply becoming something we analyze.
• Personal devotion vs. sermon preparation — Why pastors and ministry leaders must guard their own relationship with Jesus apart from ministry responsibilities.
• Preaching through books of the Bible — Why verse-by-verse exposition remains Joel's favorite and most transformative approach to preaching.
• Casting multiple nets from the pulpit — How Joel prepares messages that engage both the new believer and the lifelong student of Scripture.
• A live walk-through of John 3 — Joel demonstrates how he studies and teaches the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus, showing how one passage can speak to people in very different places spiritually.

Practical Takeaways:

• Read movements of Scripture, not just isolated verses. Spend a week reading through John 1–5 or Matthew 1–7 and watch how the larger story begins to unfold.
• Memorize passages, not just verses. Consider committing Psalm 1, Psalm 16, Philippians 2:5–11, or James 1:2–8 to memory.
• Pay attention to the questions Jesus asks. His questions often reveal more about us than they do about the people He was speaking to.
• Come to God's Word expecting transformation. The goal of Bible study isn't simply more knowledge—it's becoming more like Christ.
• Protect your personal time with God. If you're in ministry, don't allow sermon preparation or teaching responsibilities to replace your own communion with Jesus.
• Let Scripture shape your worldview. Don't simply look for information or inspiration; allow God's Word to continually reform your heart, mind, and life.

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Gary has served his entire life at a 107+ year-old church in Groton, Connecticut, rooted in multi-generational faithfulness. Michael leads a rapidly growing, deeply diverse church on Long Island, New York, where half the congregation has come to faith in the last two years. Together, they unpack the difference between knowing your destination and knowing your strategy, why God rarely gives leaders a GPS but always gives them a direction, and how to lead with confidence when the path ahead isn't fully clear.

They discuss the tension between vision and strategy, why people respect faith from a distance but struggle to follow it up close, how to respond to people in your church who want more clarity than you can give, and why the uncertainty you're walking through right now might be exactly where God is doing His best work.

Whether you're a pastor navigating a major ministry transition, a leader trying to cast vision without a fully formed plan, or simply someone trying to follow Jesus faithfully through an uncertain season of life — this episode will challenge you to keep moving, stay in the Word, and trust that God doesn't need to reveal every step to prove He's working.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why you can know your destination but still lack the strategy to get there — and what to do about it
• How to lead with clarity and confidence when you can't give people a GPS route to the future
• What Abraham, Moses, David, Esther, Paul, and Joshua all have in common — and what it means for your leadership today
• Why people respect faith from a distance but struggle to actually follow a leader who operates by it
• How to hear the words behind the words when disgruntled people challenge your vision
• Why uncertainty isn't a leadership failure — it's often where the deepest spiritual growth happens
• How to discern whether lack of clarity is a God-dependency issue or a strategy-building issue
• What it looks like to start moving before you have all the answers — and why a parked car goes nowhere
• How to get above the clouds when the ground-level view is too overwhelming to navigate
• Why the plan God calls you to should always be bigger than what you can accomplish on your own

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

In this episode, Joel Wayne sits down with Luke Bilberry and Zach Stephens to explore the unique challenges, opportunities, and blessings of serving in the "second chair." Whether you're an associate pastor, ministry leader, business executive, team member, or volunteer, this conversation offers practical wisdom on supporting a vision, leading with humility, and leveraging your influence for the Kingdom of God.

Together, they discuss the importance of trust, alignment, communication, calling, and understanding how God has uniquely wired each leader. You'll discover why great leadership is often about serving others well, embracing your role with joy, and helping carry the mission forward—even when you're not the one casting the final vision.

If you've ever wrestled with contentment, influence, authority, or leadership responsibility, this episode will encourage you to lead faithfully where God has placed you.

Key Scriptures

Philippians 2:3-11
Jesus modeled humility and servant leadership by emptying Himself and taking the form of a servant.

Exodus 17:8-13
Aaron and Hur holding up Moses' arms as a picture of supporting leadership.

Acts 6:1-7
The apostles empower others to serve so the mission of God can continue to expand.

Romans 12:3-8
Different gifts, one body, united in purpose.

1 Corinthians 12:12-27
Every member plays a unique and valuable role in God's mission.

In This Episode

• What it means to serve faithfully in the second chair.
• Why every organization needs trusted support leaders.
• The blessing of influence without carrying ultimate responsibility.
• How healthy leaders create space for people to grow and evolve in their roles.
• The dangers of moving faster than the vision allows.
• Learning to submit ideas while maintaining conviction.
• The relationship between trust, humility, and organizational health.
• Why understanding your God-given wiring matters.
• The difference between "I could" and "I should."
• How servant leadership reflects the character of Christ.

Leadership Takeaways

1. Great Leadership Begins with Great Followership

The ability to support, serve, and strengthen another leader is a critical leadership skill. Faithfulness in the second chair prepares leaders for greater responsibility.

2. Trust Is the Foundation of Healthy Teams

Healthy organizations are built on mutual trust. Leaders must trust their teams, and teams must trust the leaders God has placed over them.

3. Good Leadership Requires Humility

Not every idea needs to be implemented immediately. Humility allows leaders to submit preferences for the sake of unity and mission.

4. Know How God Has Wired You

Every leader brings unique strengths to the table. Understanding your gifts helps you serve effectively and avoid unnecessary frustration.

5. Alignment Matters More Than Speed

Healthy change requires communication, trust, and alignment. Moving too quickly can create drift, while moving together creates momentum.

6. Focus on Calling, Not Position

Discontent grows when we focus on what we could do. Joy grows when we focus on what God has called us to do today.

Questions for Reflection

1. How has God uniquely wired me to serve and lead?
2. Am I fully embracing the role God has currently given me?
3. Where do I need to grow in trust toward the leaders around me?
4. Are my preferences creating unity or unnecessary tension?
5. Do I focus more on what I could do or what God is calling me to do?
6. How can I better support and strengthen the people God has placed in leadership around me?

Connect with Be The Church

Be The Church exists to equip leaders to be reinvigorated, renewed, and catalyzed to become who God has called them to be. Through biblical teaching, practical leadership insights, and transformational conversations, our goal is not self-help—but gospel-centered transformation that impacts homes, churches, workplaces, and communities.

Learn more at bethechurch.org

Subscribe & Share

If this conversation encouraged you, share it with a friend, coworker, pastor, business leader, or disciple-maker who desires to lead from a place of deep discipleship and greater spiritual influence.

Because transformed followers of Jesus transform the world around them.

Get each episode to your inbox - https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

For many believers, faith begins with receiving Jesus as Savior. But somewhere along the journey comes the realization that Jesus is not only Savior—He is Lord. In this episode, Joel Wayne and Luke Bilberry sit down with business leader, elder, husband, and disciple-maker Josh Fuller to discuss the difference between simply believing in Jesus and truly following Him.

Josh shares his personal faith journey—from a dramatic gospel presentation at thirteen years old, through years of cultural Christianity, to discovering the life-changing call of discipleship. Together, they explore what it means to count the cost, embrace spiritual leadership, and boldly live out the gospel in the workplace.

Whether you lead in a church, a business, a classroom, or your home, this conversation will challenge you to see your everyday sphere of influence as a mission field and your leadership as a calling from God.

In This Episode

• Josh shares the defining chapters of his spiritual journey.
• Why many Christians know Jesus as Savior but never fully embrace Him as Lord.
• The difference between event-driven Christianity and intentional discipleship.
• Why churches must present the full invitation of Jesus—including the cost.
• How spiritual leadership extends far beyond vocational ministry.
• Practical ways to live unashamed of the gospel in the workplace.
• Understanding your workplace as a mission field.
• How fear often reveals that we are focused on ourselves rather than God's mission.
• Why kindness alone is not enough—and why gospel conversations matter.
• Learning to leverage everyday opportunities to point people toward Christ.

Leadership Takeaways

1. Salvation Is the Beginning, Not the Finish Line

Many believers have experienced a moment of conversion but have never been taught how to follow Jesus as disciples. The invitation of Jesus is not simply to believe in Him but to follow Him.

2. Discipleship Has a Cost

Jesus never hid the cost of following Him. True discipleship requires surrender, obedience, and dying to self—but it also leads to freedom, joy, and transformation.

3. Every Christian Is a Spiritual Leader

Spiritual leadership is not reserved for pastors or church staff. God has strategically placed every believer in unique spheres of influence to represent Christ.

4. Your Workplace Is a Mission Field

The people God has placed around you may never step inside a church building. You may be God's chosen messenger in their life.

5. Fear Shrinks When Christ Becomes the Focus

Many fears around evangelism ultimately center on self-preservation. When Jesus becomes our focus, courage grows and opportunities emerge.

6. Gospel Presence Must Include Gospel Proclamation

Kindness, compassion, and excellence matter. But disciples of Jesus are also called to speak about the hope they have found in Christ.

Memorable Quotes

Key Scriptures

Luke 14:25-33 – The Cost of Discipleship

Romans 1:16-17 – "For I am not ashamed of the gospel..."

Matthew 28:18-20 – The Great Commission

1 Peter 3:15 – Always be prepared to give an answer for the hope within you.

Galatians 5:22-23 – The Fruit of the Spirit

Questions for Reflection

1. Have I embraced Jesus as both Savior and Lord?
2. What costs of discipleship am I currently resisting?
3. Who has God placed in my sphere of influence that needs to experience the love of Christ?
4. Am I living unashamed of the gospel in my workplace, neighborhood, and relationships?
5. What opportunities might God be giving me to "raise the flag" and make my faith visible?
6. How can I intentionally lead spiritually in the places God has already assigned me?

Connect with Be The Church

Be The Church exists to equip leaders to be reinvigorated, renewed, and catalyzed to become who God has called them to be. Through biblical teaching, practical leadership insights, and transformational conversations, our goal is not self-help—but gospel-centered transformation that impacts homes, churches, workplaces, and communities.

Learn more at bethechurch.org

Subscribe & Share

If this conversation encouraged you, share it with a friend, coworker, pastor, business leader, or disciple-maker who desires to lead from a place of deep discipleship and greater spiritual influence.

Because transformed followers of Jesus transform the world around them.

Get each episode to your inbox - https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Melissa shares her journey from working in marketing and corporate business to becoming a business owner, consultant, COO, and licensed residential builder — all while serving alongside her husband in ministry and raising four kids. Together, they unpack the tension of balancing calling, work, and family life, what it means to lead with humility and servant-heartedness, and how faith shapes the way we navigate pressure, leadership, and success.

They also discuss the importance of intentional living, creating margin for spiritual conversations at home, leading in high-pressure environments without chaos, and why “faithfulness is the reward” in both ministry and the marketplace.

Whether you’re leading a business, serving in ministry, raising a family, or simply trying to follow Jesus faithfully in a busy world, this episode will encourage you to trust God’s plan, steward your gifts well, and live with purpose wherever He has placed you.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

•  How to follow Jesus faithfully in the marketplace 
•  Why servant leadership matters in business and ministry 
•  How Melissa balances leadership, family, and faith 
•  What it looks like to lead with peace instead of chaos 
•  Why intentionality is essential in parenting and marriage 
•  How to trust God when your plans and dreams change 
•  The importance of building margin for spiritual conversations 
•  Why faithfulness matters more than platform or success 
•  How to navigate pressure and responsibility with a biblical perspective 
•  What it means to use your gifts and career for the Kingdom of God

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack the realities of serving in ministry as a married couple—from criticism, unmet expectations, and difficult transitions to the beauty of shared calling, mutual encouragement, and spiritual growth through surrender. Melissa shares candidly about stepping outside her comfort zone, navigating seasons of brokenness, and learning to embrace God’s plan even when it looked far different than what she imagined for her life.

From the challenges of being a pastor’s wife to the importance of speaking life into your spouse, this episode offers practical wisdom and gospel-centered encouragement for couples, parents, ministry leaders, and anyone seeking to faithfully follow Jesus in the everyday moments of life.

What you’ll learn:

•  Why a shared calling is essential for navigating marriage and ministry together 
•  How criticism, preferences, and expectations can challenge ministry families 
•  The importance of prioritizing Christ, marriage, and family in the right order 
•  What it looks like to move from striving for self to fully relying on Christ 
•  How God uses hard seasons, transitions, and brokenness to refine and strengthen us 
•  Why words of encouragement and affirmation deeply matter in marriage 
•  How healthy marriages sharpen, strengthen, and sanctify both spouses 
•  Practical encouragement for young moms and wives navigating exhausting seasons 
•  Why obedience often requires stepping outside your comfort zone 
•  The danger of prioritizing success, ministry, or achievement over serving your spouse 
•  How surrender and faithfulness can lead to lasting spiritual impact and transformation 
•  Why embracing the season God has you in can change everything

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack how spiritual leaders can navigate suffering with integrity, gratitude, and a deep dependence on God rather than falling into self-reliance, distraction, or the pressure to “fix” everything themselves. Through personal stories, biblical wisdom, and practical leadership insights, they explore how hardship often exposes the true condition of our hearts—and how God uses those moments to shape us into faithful leaders.

From battling cynicism and unhealthy coping mechanisms to learning the difference between building something and simply being with Jesus, this episode challenges listeners to pursue spiritual leadership rooted in abiding with Christ, not performance or control.

What you’ll learn:

•  Why trials and hardship are unavoidable parts of spiritual leadership 
•  How “keeping yourself clean” spiritually prepares you to endure difficult seasons 
•  The danger of treating symptoms instead of addressing root heart issues 
•  Why staying focused on Jesus changes how you navigate crisis and conflict 
•  The connection between gratitude and spiritual health during suffering 
•  How grumbling, bitterness, and cynicism quietly erode spiritual leadership 
•  Why many leaders idolize fixing problems—and how surrender changes everything 
•  The difference between building something for God and simply being with Him 
•  How authentic community and friendship help leaders endure hardship faithfully 
•  Why spiritual leadership was never meant to be carried alone 
•  Practical ways to lead through crisis with integrity, humility, and dependence on Christ 
•  How getting a clearer view of Jesus transforms your perspective in hard seasons

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack how modern technology and constant urgency are quietly shaping us into spiritually fragmented people, why discipline often drifts from faithfulness into control, and how true discipleship is built through intentional, relational investment with God and others.

From the tension between physical and spiritual discipline to the everyday challenge of leading our families well, this episode calls leaders to move beyond information and into transformation—choosing presence over distraction and surrender over control.

What you’ll learn:

• Why distraction is one of the greatest barriers to spiritual growth today
• How discipline can shift from self-control to unhealthy control—and how to correct it
• Why relationships (with God and others) are at the center of true discipleship
• The connection between distraction, lack of discipline, and feeling like you don’t have enough time
• How to pursue spiritual discipline without falling into perfectionism or performance
• Practical ways to lead your family with intentional, consistent spiritual investment
• Why progress—not perfection—is the goal of a faithful, disciplined life
• How surrender, not control, leads to bold faith and lasting transformation

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Eric shares his deeply personal story of loss, redemption, and the defining truth that now anchors his life: “hope in spite of.” From losing both parents at a young age to wrestling with identity, purpose, and calling, his journey reveals how the goodness of God is not found in the absence of hardship—but in His faithful presence through it.

They also explore the heart of the next generation—why young adults are desperate for authenticity, hungry for truth, and longing for spiritual leaders who are both honest and anchored in Scripture. This episode is both a story of God’s redeeming work and a call to lead others from a place of a deep, abiding relationship with Him.

What you’ll learn:

• Why your identity must be rooted in being loved by God—not your past, performance, or pain
• How to reframe your story through the lens of “hope in spite of” and see God’s goodness in every season
• The danger of building your identity around ministry instead of intimacy with Christ
• Why abiding in Jesus (John 15) is essential for lasting fruit and spiritual leadership
• What today’s young adults are looking for: authenticity, truth, and spiritual family
• How to lead others through hardship with both compassion and a clear vision of future hope
• Practical ways to cultivate resilience and a deeper relationship with God in your everyday life

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they wrestle with a powerful tension: following Jesus is simple—but it’s not easy. From family rhythms and leadership convictions to kingdom-minded living and surrender, this conversation exposes how easily we drift into compartmentalized, performance-driven faith—and calls us back to a life of wholehearted devotion.

They unpack why spiritual leadership isn’t about adding more to your plate, but about becoming the same person in every environment, why relationships—not efficiency—are the true engine of discipleship, and how entitlement quietly erodes our joy while expectancy restores awe and wonder in our walk with God.

From “kingdom vs. castle” thinking to the daily decision to serve rather than be served, this episode will challenge you to stop managing your faith and start surrendering your heart—at home, at work, and in every relationship.

Whether you’re leading a church, raising a family, working a job, or simply trying to follow Jesus faithfully, this conversation will help you rediscover the beauty of a life fully yielded to Him.

What you’ll learn:

• Why following Jesus is simple in truth—but difficult in surrender
• How compartmentalized faith leads to burnout and inconsistency
• The difference between entitlement and expectancy—and why it matters
• Why relationships (not programs) are central to discipleship and leadership
• How “kingdom vs. castle” thinking reshapes the way you lead and live
• The power of small, everyday acts of service in forming a Christlike life
• Why spiritual leadership flows from who you are—not just what you do
• How surrendering your heart (not just modifying behavior) changes everything

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they discuss Steve's story as a missionary in the UK, the "reverse culture shock" of returning to the United States, and how the global church’s theology of suffering challenges our Western pursuit of comfort. From the mission fields of Europe and Africa to West Michigan, this conversation reveals that the most powerful tool for advancing the kingdom isn't a strategy—it’s a life willing to be known by others and shaped by God.

Whether you feel called to the other side of the world or just the other side of the street, this episode will challenge you to stop seeing people as projects and start seeing relationship as the primary vehicle for God’s transformative work.

What you’ll learn:

• The International Lens: How living in a different cultural context changes your internal "grid" and deepens your dependence on God.
• The Global Contrast: Why the American church struggles with individualism while the global church finds strength in shared suffering.
• Relational Mobilization: Why Be The Church focuses on "abiding" and relationship as their foundation.
• The Myth of Usefulness: Understanding that God doesn't send us overseas because He needs our help, but because He wants us to know His heart.
• Shortcuts vs. Sanctification: Why the "Prosperity Gospel" fails on the mission field and why we must embrace the "long game" of spiritual preparation.
• Picking Up the Accent: How proximity to God and His people changes the way we speak, lead, and love.

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

This episode pulls back the curtain on what it looks like to truly die to self for the sake of the kingdom. Together, they examine the mechanics of healthy leadership through the lens of Nehemiah, the mathematical power of biblical collaboration, and the common pitfalls that cause gifted leaders to crash and burn.

Whether you are leading a large organization or discipling a handful of people in your living room, this conversation challenges every leader to remember that the greatest movement of God happens when no one cares who gets the credit.

What you’ll learn:
- Why Jim chose impact over title and how to navigate "stepping down."
- How to identify your leadership horsepower and match your capacity to your role.
- The timeless roadmap for moving a vision from chaos to implementation.
- Understanding the Deuteronomy 32:30 principle of how two leaders together produce exponential results.
- Why the church is "spinning its wheels" by choosing curriculum over a life-on-life process.
- Why convictions, character, and core commitments are the "taproot" of longevity.
- Why high-capacity leaders are at the greatest risk of the "Pride Trap."
- How to pour into "lay people" and treat them with the same intentionality as a professional staff.

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

In this special Holy Week episode, Pastor Luke sits down with Pastor Joel to reflect on the final days of Jesus’ life—and why we can’t skip the journey to the cross to fully understand the power of the resurrection.

From the Garden of Gethsemane to the empty tomb, this conversation is a call to slow down, remember, and step into a deeper relationship with Jesus. Why did the disciples fall asleep when Jesus asked them to pray? And where might we be doing the same in our own lives?

This episode challenges us to move beyond surface-level belief and into true abiding—walking closely with Jesus in both suffering and victory. Because spiritual leadership doesn’t start with what we do for God, but how we dwell with Him.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

•  Why Holy Week matters more than we often realize 
•  The danger of spiritual disengagement—and how to stay awake 
•  What it means to truly abide with Jesus 
•  How humility leads to deeper worship 
•  Why the resurrection changes how we live right now

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

In this deeply personal and honest conversation, Pastor Jim shares how his calling to ministry began at just 12 years old, only to be tested and refined in the years that followed. From a life-changing moment at summer camp to navigating family brokenness, early ministry, and unexpected leadership opportunities, his story reveals that spiritual leadership is not built on talent or ambition but on surrender, hardship, and faithfulness over time.

As Jim reflects on seasons of rapid ministry growth followed by one of the hardest leadership transitions of his life, he unpacks the humbling reality that God often does His deepest work in the desert. Together, Joel and Jim explore the difference between pastoring and leading, the dangers of chasing “more,” and why many leaders don’t truly understand leadership until they’re stretched beyond their capacity.

Whether you’re stepping into leadership for the first time or navigating a difficult season, this episode will challenge you to rethink what it means to be called, formed, and sustained by God.

What you’ll learn:

•  How Pastor Jim Jeffery came to faith and sensed his call to ministry at a young age 
•  Why spiritual leadership is formed through hardship, not just success 
•  The key lesson many leaders learn too late about transitioning between ministries 
•  The difference between pastoring and leading—and why both matter 
•  Why chasing “more” can lead you away from what God is actually doing 
•  How God uses difficult seasons to humble, shape, and prepare leaders 
•  The importance of learning leadership from both Scripture and godly mentors 
•  Why caring for your soul is essential if you want to lead for the long haul 

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

In this deeply practical and forward-looking conversation, Paul shares how his leadership journey was shaped not by ambition but by faithfully stewarding what God placed in front of him. Together, they unpack the critical role of the local church in sending missionaries, the power of kingdom-minded partnerships, and why relational investment—not platform—drives lasting gospel impact.

But this conversation doesn’t stop at what missions is today. It looks ahead.

As the global landscape rapidly shifts, Joel and Paul address the growing realities of persecution, the rise of the global middle class, and the urgent need for resilient, deeply formed disciples who can endure what’s coming. This is a call for pastors and leaders to lift their eyes beyond their immediate context and re-engage the Great Commission with clarity, conviction, and courage.

What you’ll learn:

• Why the local church—not individuals—is God’s primary sending strategy for missions
• How “outsized impact” is built through relationships, not platforms
• The real reason many missionaries struggle—and what churches must do differently
• Why global missions today is “uneven” and how partnership and creativity help close the gap
• The surprising rise of the global middle class—and what it means for reaching the nations
• Why persecution will define the future of missions—and how leaders must prepare now
• How to lead with a long-term mindset when gospel work requires endurance, not speed
• A biblical challenge to lift your eyes beyond your context and engage the nations

About Paul Davis
Paul and his wife, Martha, have served in pastoral ministry since 1989. In their lifetime of ministry, they have led church plants, Christian schools and dynamic ministry teams. Additionally, they have given oversight to children’s, youth and college/career ministries. They enjoy pace-setting leadership as well as serving as educators, conference speakers and ministry trip facilitators.

In 2017, Paul became the seventh president of ABWE. Today, Paul and Martha are working hard to meet, support, and encourage the ABWE global team, striving to embolden gospel-centered churches to become sending and supporting churches, connecting God-enabled donors to the visionary projects of our fields, and humbly working to build, heal and reignite relationships with ABWE partners past, present and future. The Davises have four adult children who are believers in Jesus Christ.

About ABWE

ABWE (Association of Baptists for World Evangelism) is a global family of ministries that exists to fulfill the Great Commission by multiplying leaders, churches, and missions movements among every people.

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

In this deeply personal conversation, Joel and Luke move beyond definitions to discuss the conundrum of the modern believer: the tendency to marry the Word of God with our own broken preferences. Drawing from the wisdom of Leslie Newbigin and AW Tozer, Joel and Luke unpack how our first thoughts about God dictate every decision we make—from how we parent to how we lead through uncertainty.

This episode is a call to stop being held captive by hollow philosophies and to start thinking God’s thoughts about every issue of life.

What you’ll learn:
- Why Christianity doesn’t "fit" into other worldviews; it is exclusive.
- How to move from a man-centered framework to a God-centered one.
- Why your preferences and God’s Word are often at war, and why "blending" them is a trap.
- Why only 9% of born-again believers actually hold a biblical worldview.
- Finding peace when you can’t see the destination, but you know the King.
- How to identify the "hollow and deceptive" practices that are currently holding you captive.

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack the "Developer vs. Doer" trap that many leaders fall into—rewarding those who simply execute tasks while ignoring those who could multiply leadership. From the miracle of a woman walking into a baptismal tank to the humble reality of church revitalization, this conversation explores how fear of losing control quietly kills kingdom growth. You'll learn why your greatest strengths might actually be the biggest barrier to God’s power and how to create an environment where the Holy Spirit, not your own ego, is the primary driver of movement.

Whether you are leading a staff of 50 or volunteering in your local community, this episode will challenge you to stop filling holes and start developing developers.

What you’ll learn:

• The Movement Mindset: Why church growth is a miracle you can measure, but a movement is something only God can control.
• Doers vs. Developers: How to identify if your leadership systems are rewarding dependency or fostering multiplication.
• The Power of Revitalization: Why "weddings" between dying churches and passionate leaders may be the key to reclaiming Kingdom resources.
• Leading the High-Capacity Leader: How to make room at the table for entrepreneurs and "financial wizards" without feeling threatened.
• The Paradox of Strength: Why relying on your natural talents often keeps you from experiencing the "fresh manna" of God’s current work.
• Prophetic Leadership: The importance of calling out anointing in others and creating the right environment for spiritual formation.

About James Hilton
Dr. James Hilton serves as the Lead Teacher and Pastor at The Journey Church. He and his wife, Shana, have been happily married since 1997 and are blessed with four children: their son, Josiah; twin daughters, Halyn and Gracyn; and their youngest, Ansley.

Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Rooted in 2 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 9, they unpack Paul’s exhortation to Timothy and explore three powerful images of spiritual leadership: the soldier, the athlete, and the farmer. Together, they examine how identity in Christ fuels perseverance, how self-control and discipline prepare leaders for suffering, and why abiding in God—not accomplishing tasks—must be the foundation of everything we do.

This conversation challenges leaders to stop chasing performance-driven ministry and instead rediscover their purpose in being loved by the Father. From cultural pressures to personal ambition, Joel and Luke call listeners back to a simple but transformative truth: you are a child of God, strengthened by His grace, and called to endure hardship with confidence and joy.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why your identity as a child of God must shape your purpose and leadership
• How task-driven ministry can quietly replace abiding relationship with Christ
• What Paul’s charge to Timothy teaches about spiritual grit and perseverance
• Why sharing in Christ’s sufferings is part of faithful leadership
• How the images of soldier, athlete, and farmer define biblical leadership
• Why discipline and self-control prepare you for cultural pressure
• How changing the “rules” leads to spiritual drift and loss of authority
• Why doing hard things strengthens spiritual resilience
• How worship flows from knowing you are loved and approved by the Father
• What it looks like to run the race with the aim of pleasing the One who enlisted you

This episode is a bold reminder that spiritual leadership is not about winning approval from people—it’s about faithful obedience to the King of Kings. When your identity is secure in Christ, you can embrace the hard, endure suffering, and lead with courage in a culture that constantly shifts the rules.

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they explore John’s leadership journey—from church planting and global adoption to leading a worldwide Bible translation movement—and unpack a foundational conviction: everything in ministry is downstream from the Word of God. Without Scripture in the heart language of a people, discipleship remains shallow, and the church struggles to take deep root.

Drawing from passages like John 5, John 14, and John 17, they discuss what it means to lead with humility, pursue unity as Christ prayed for His church, and trust in the sovereignty of God in a rapidly changing world. They also examine how artificial intelligence is reshaping Bible translation—shortening timelines, strengthening accuracy, and helping bring Scripture to oral and non-literate communities for the first time in history.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why everything in ministry and leadership is downstream from Scripture
• How heart-language Bible translation fuels lasting spiritual transformation
• What it means to lead through influence, unity, and partnership—not just position
• How spiritual rhythms protect leaders from drifting into performance-driven ministry
• Why team culture and executive humility shape the health of an entire organization
• How AI is accelerating Bible translation while preserving theological integrity
• Why oral Bible translation is essential for non-literate communities
• What it looks like to trust God’s sovereignty when leadership feels uncertain
• How the peace of Christ steadies leaders in a world filled with disruption

Whether you’re a pastor, ministry leader, or everyday believer seeking to lead faithfully in an uncertain age, this episode will expand your vision for the global Church and ground you in the transforming power of the Word of God.

About Dr. John Chesnut

John Chesnut serves as President and CEO for Wycliffe Bible Translators. He and his wife, Kelly, have been members of Wycliffe since 2001. John earned his bachelor's degree in behavioral science with minors in biblical studies and philosophy from California Baptist College, along with a master of divinity and doctor of ministry from Denver Seminary. The Chesnuts live in Orlando, FL. They have seven children through birth and adoption, along with an ever-expanding crew of grandchildren. You can learn more about Wycliffe at www.wycliffe.org.

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Rather than offering leadership hacks or formulas, this episode slows down and asks a more foundational question: What happens when leaders stop trusting their own wisdom and allow the Word of God to truly shape their identity, motivation, and obedience?

Together, Luke and Joel walk through key passages of Scripture that have shaped decades of ministry—from the humility of Christ in Philippians 2 to the warning against selfish ambition, from the cost of obedience in James 1 to the beauty of redemption in John 4. Along the way, they challenge pastors and spiritual leaders to examine their motives, resist cultural pressure to measure success by outcomes, and return to Scripture as the living, active authority for leadership and life.

This conversation is a call back to first things: deep discipleship, humility, leadership, and a life fully surrendered to Jesus. If you’re a pastor, ministry leader, or everyday believer longing to lead faithfully in a distracted, performance-driven culture, this episode will ground you in what truly matters.

What You’ll Learn

• Why Scripture—not personality, platform, or preference—must be the foundation of spiritual leadership
• How pride, self-reliance, and comparison quietly undermine a leader’s soul
• Why humility and servanthood are not optional but essential for Christlike leadership
• How Scripture memory and biblical narratives shape long-term faithfulness
• Why transformation happens through obedience, not information
• How shared leadership and biblical counsel protect leaders from burnout and isolation
• What it looks like to redefine success around faithfulness instead of visible results

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Drawing from Scripture, personal stories, and lived experience, Dan and Shannon explore how parenting flows from theology, marriage, and mission, why the nuclear family was never meant to operate in isolation, and how God uses both hardship and community to form faithful disciples in the home.

This conversation encourages parents to move from control to preparation, from fear to faith, and from isolation to intentional dependence on the Body of Christ—trusting God with both the process and the outcomes.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why biblical parenting is rooted in discipleship, not behavior modification
• How parenting flows downstream from your theology, marriage, and mission
• Why the goal isn’t protecting kids from everything—but preparing them for what’s ahead
• How to disciple each child according to their unique personality and calling
• Why the Body of Christ plays a vital role in raising spiritually healthy kids
• How to approach schooling, technology, and culture through a discipleship lens
• What it looks like to parent from humility, repentance, and dependence on God

Whether you’re parenting young children, teenagers, or preparing for parenthood, this episode will challenge you to rethink success, trust God more deeply, and embrace the calling to disciple the next generation—together with the Church.

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack how real, Christ-centered friendships are forged through vulnerability, trust, sacrifice, and shared mission—not convenience or proximity. From the complexity of leading together in ministry to the courage it takes to be fully known, this conversation explores how guardedness, busyness, and fear quietly erode relationships—and how God uses authentic friendship to sharpen leaders, protect souls, and advance His kingdom.

Whether you’re a pastor, elder, ministry leader, or simply longing for deeper relationships, this conversation will call you to invest intentionally, love courageously, and pick up the “weapon” of biblical friendship.

What you’ll learn:

• Why biblical friendship is essential—not optional—for spiritual leadership
• How vulnerability and trust are forged over time through shared sacrifice
• Why guardedness and busyness are enemies of real community
• How friendship can thrive even in complex, layered leadership relationships
• Why priorities are revealed by what you’re willing to displace
• How God uses deep friendship to sharpen leaders and advance the Kingdom

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

In this episode of the Be The Church Podcast, Luke Bilberry sits down with Pastor Andrew Honeycutt (Byron Center Campus Pastor at Chapel Pointe) for a practical and deeply encouraging conversation on leadership development, discipleship, and spiritual formation.

Andrew shares the defining moments that shaped his calling. He speaks candidly about hardship and resilience—what it means to “take kidney shots” as a leader—and how vision anchored in God’s call empowers you to keep going when the odds feel stacked against you. He offers a framework for staying grounded: Scripture, prayer, identity in Christ, and mentors who speak biblical wisdom into your life.

Whether you’re leading in your home, your workplace, your friendships, or your church, this episode will help you embrace the power of presence, the importance of words, and the calling to invest in others so they can experience life to the full in Jesus.

What you’ll learn:

• Why leadership development is discipleship (and what that looks like in real life)
• How God often forms leaders through small, incremental next steps
• What “taking kidney shots” means—and how leaders stay resilient
• Why vision and calling matter more than the odds stacked against you
• How mentors and community help secure your identity in Christ
• Why words can unlock calling: the power of “I see in you…”
• Why presence matters when someone is in a dark season
• Foundational rhythms for disciples: Word, prayer, listening, journaling
• Three self-evaluative questions for men who want to lead

Titus Ten Book: https://shorturl.at/06OTb
Mere Christianity Book: https://shorturl.at/neGbz

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Jon shares his story—from a defining car accident at 16, to student ministry and seminary, to building church software that served thousands of churches worldwide. Along the way, he unpacks a crucial warning for leaders in today’s tech moment: the more fascinated we become with the tools, the more we risk missing the point.

Using the life of Moses as a framework, Jon challenges leaders to resist the urge to rush ahead in their own strength. That same principle applies to innovation, calling, and the way we steward emerging technologies like AI.

Whether you’re leading in ministry, business, or your everyday relationships, this episode will help you stay anchored in the mission—people, discipleship, and the Kingdom—while thinking thoughtfully about how to use technology without losing your humanity.

What you’ll learn:

• Why technology is neutral—and why Christians can’t afford to stay silent in tech spaces
• How to avoid becoming fascinated by AI and “missing the point” of the mission
• A leadership lesson from Moses: right burden, wrong timing (and what patience looks like)
• Why social media often promises “connection” but produces isolation, envy, and loneliness
• How to use AI wisely as a tool for learning—without replacing real community and relationships
• Practical ways to lead with spiritual influence: initiative, presence, and relational investment
• How to steward passions that feel “separate” (ministry + tech) into Kingdom impact

Connect with Jon
Jon VerLee is the Founder of Startup Garage and the Entrepreneur in Residence at Calvin University, where he combines his entrepreneurial experience and passion for faith-driven innovation to empower students and founders to turn business ideas into ventures that create meaningful, redemptive impact. He is the former Founder and CEO of Breeze Church Management Software. Connect with Jon at startupgarage.org.

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack the difference between being informed about Jesus and being transformed by Jesus and why Jesus consistently called people to become disciples—apprentices who surrender everything to the King. You’ll also hear stories of discipleship in real life: a pastor who thought he needed another Bible study… and got handed a rake; a Romanian leader navigating a culture full of nominal Christianity; and a call to reach people through everyday presence.

Whether you’re a pastor, leader, or a believer who wants your life to be “marked by Jesus,” this episode will challenge you to stop outsourcing the mission, break agreement with busyness, and step into the everyday disciple-making Jesus commanded.

What you’ll learn:

• Why Jesus said “make disciples,” not “become Christians,” and what that means for the church today
• The warning signs of “informed but not transformed” faith (and how sanctification actually shows up)
• Why you can’t claim discipleship without disciple-making (and how busyness becomes an idol)
• How disciple-making looks different in Romania, Uganda, and New York—but always happens through everyday life
• A practical first step: how to reach your neighbor with a simple offer of prayer and open the door to gospel conversations
• Why the “cultural church” model breaks down—and how biblical church multiplies through ordinary believers

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack why “vision” is often misunderstood, how unchecked motives can turn leadership into anxiety and people-pleasing, and why strategy is the missing middle that separates faithful impact from endless busyness. From Proverbs’ warning about aimless living to Moses’ repeated obedience before Pharaoh, this episode challenges leaders to stop chasing efficiency, start pursuing effectiveness, and build the kind of clarity that helps people “run through a wall” for the mission of God.

Whether you’re leading a church, ministry team, business, or your own household, this conversation will help you define a God-honoring vision, choose a focused strategy, and empower others to implement what God has called you to—without defaulting to control, comfort, or comparison.

What you’ll learn:

• Why biblical vision isn’t about creativity, it’s about God’s glory, God’s will, and God-centered motives
• How to test your “vision” by running it through prayer, Scripture, and wise counsel
• Why strategy is the hardest (and most essential) part and how it forces leaders to say no to distractions
• How clarity in implementation equips the saints and activates people who are ready to serve
• What Moses teaches us about leadership: repetition, obedience, perseverance, and staying the course
• Why choosing effectiveness over efficiency leads to healthier leadership and less anxiety

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Throughout the conversation, they explore the danger of distraction, the subtle ways leaders confuse peace with passivity, and why faithfulness in the everyday often becomes the pathway to God’s greater purposes. Joel unpacks the difference between contentment in Christ and spiritual angst over a broken world, reminding leaders that peace is not found when circumstances are controlled, but when our identity is anchored in Jesus.

From building the fire today to embracing the daily work of obedience, this episode invites leaders to stop chasing outcomes and instead trust God with the results—believing that when we live in the tension, Jesus proves Himself to be enough.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• Why discerning what to say “no” to is just as important as saying “yes” to God’s call
• How distraction quietly pulls leaders away from their true calling
• The difference between contentment, passivity, and holy ambition
• Why peace comes from Christ—not control, outcomes, or circumstances
• How faithfulness in everyday obedience shapes long-term spiritual impact
• A practical practice for rooting your identity in what Christ has redeemed you from
• Why learning to live in the tension is essential for healthy, joyful leadership

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they explore how grit and drive can drift into self-reliance, why leaders must keep returning to humility and repentance, and how empowering others reignites courage and longevity in ministry. Joel also unpacks the story behind his calling, his ministry transitions, and the early spark that led to Be The Church.

What you’ll learn:
- How God uses both hardship and opportunity to form spiritual leaders
- Why self-reliance is one of the greatest dangers for driven leaders
- How to discern the difference between your desires and God’s will
- The role of humility, repentance, and dependence in long-term leadership
- Why empowering others is essential—not optional—for healthy leadership
- How thinking about eternity reshapes the risks you take today
- The story behind Joel’s calling and the origin of Be The Church

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack what it really means to lead like Jesus in a world obsessed with achievement, platform, and outcomes. From redefining success as simple obedience to recognizing that spiritual influence is birthed out of discipleship—not charisma or personality—this conversation brings leadership back to its biblical foundation.

What you’ll learn:
- Why spiritual leadership starts with recognizing you have nothing apart from Christ
- The difference between outcome-based leadership and obedience-based leadership
- How spiritual leaders discern God’s voice in everyday moments
- Why true leadership requires selflessness, sacrifice, and dying to personal preference
- How Jesus flips the world’s leadership model upside down—and why it leads to freedom
- The role of humility, hidden service, and unseen obedience in shaping a leader’s heart
- How to recognize and respond to “aha moments” where God redirects your path
- What it looks like to leverage your leadership in your home, workplace, and relationships
- The importance of sensitivity to the Holy Spirit in daily decisions

Join Our Email List | https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Connect With Us
Website: https://bethechurch.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack why so many new (and seasoned) leaders feel pressure to prove themselves, why listening is more Christlike than leading with statements, and how the search for validation can quietly pull your heart away from God and toward the approval of people. From avoiding conflict to measuring the wrong things to carrying burdens we were meant to share, this episode shines a light on the subtle traps that shape unhealthy leadership.

Ultimately, the conversation keeps circling back to a single, critical theme: Spiritual leadership is not about outcomes, optics, or speed—it’s about obedience, impact, and becoming someone worth emulating.

Whether you’re stepping into leadership for the first time, serving in your church, leading in the workplace, or simply wanting to grow as a follower of Jesus, this episode will challenge you to slow down, ask better questions, listen well, and aim your life at the right target.

What you’ll learn:

• Why young leaders often rush to speak—and how to build the discipline of listening first
• How seeking validation leads to insecurity, comparison, and unhealthy leadership patterns
• The difference between impact and influence (and why only one creates lasting change)
• How to step into conflict with truth and grace instead of fear or avoidance
• Why measuring the wrong things leads to burnout—and how to evaluate success through Scripture
• Practical ways to equip others instead of carrying the weight of ministry alone
• Why spiritual leaders must know what they stand for, not just what they stand against
• How to find mentors worth emulating and ask for the wisdom you actually need
• Why evaluating your “target” matters—and how drifting from it can derail your life and calling

Join Our Email List | https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Connect With Us
Website: https://bethechurch.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack the subtle ways pastors and spiritual leaders can start tying their worth to church size, platform, or performance—and how that robs us of joy, distorts our calling, and quietly erodes our souls. From confession and repentance to the simple practice of being present in your neighborhood, this conversation keeps coming back to one core question: Is your success defined by outcomes or by obedience?

Whether you’re a pastor, planter, elder, small group leader, or just stepping into spiritual leadership for the first time, this episode will challenge you to lay down comparison, step into vulnerability, and root your identity fully in Christ.

What you’ll learn:
- Why comparison quietly destroys spiritual leaders—and how to recognize it in your own heart
- How to root your identity in Christ instead of church size, platform, or performance
- Why confession, repentance, and vulnerability are non-negotiables for healthy leadership
- Practical ways to get out of your study and into the streets with non-believers
- How to redefine “success” in ministry around obedience to Jesus, not visible results

Join Our Email List | https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Connect With Us
Website: https://bethechurch.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Dr. White unpacks why 85% of seminary graduates leave ministry within five years, the growing impact of AI on critical thinking and leadership, and how the next generation can stay grounded in biblical truth while leading with courage. Together, Joel and Dr. White explore what it means to lead with humility, resilience, and faithfulness in a culture that often rewards comparison and compromise.

Whether you’re a pastor, student, or leader navigating today’s challenges, this episode will inspire you to stand firm on the Word of God, lead with conviction, and serve with courage.

What you’ll learn:

• Why so many ministry leaders are burning out—and how to stay the course
• How to lead with humility and resilience in a critical culture
• What AI means for the future of education, ministry, and leadership
• Why your identity in Christ must anchor your calling
• How to raise up the next generation of spiritual leaders

Connect with Dr. White
https://www.facebook.com/DrThomasWhite
https://www.instagram.com/drthomaswhite/
https://x.com/DrThomasWhite
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jthomaswhite/

Learn More about Cedarville University: https://yellowjackets.cedarville.edu/

Join Our Email List | https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Connect With Us

Website: https://bethechurch.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Together, they unpack the difference between “I have to” and “I get to” when it comes to time in God’s Word, prayer, relationships, and even caring for your body. They talk about developing a biblical worldview that informs every part of life, why relationships aren’t optional for believers, and how a leader’s willingness to absorb hardship for the sake of the bride of Christ reveals their understanding of Jesus.

What you’ll learn:
- Why spiritual disciplines are about posture, not legalism (“I get to” vs. “I have to”)
- How a biblical worldview touches five key areas of life: faith, relationships, finances, habits, and work/school
- Why relationships are a biblical responsibility, not a personal preference
- How to build rhythms that keep you rooted in Scripture and prayer

Join Our Email List | https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Connect With Us

Website: https://bethechurch.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Luke and Nathan explore how true surrender reshapes our definition of calling and home. Their conversation reveals that obedience isn’t about comfort, but about trusting God when the next step isn’t clear and discovering His faithfulness in the unknown.

Whether you’re wrestling with a big decision, leading your family through transition, or longing to live with greater purpose, this episode will challenge and encourage you to trust God completely.

What you’ll learn:
- What it really means to live with open hands before God
- How obedience often leads through discomfort before growth
- Why missions is more than a trip — it’s a way of life
- How to find contentment when God calls you into the in-between

Connect With Nathan
Email: nathan@bethechurch.org
Website: https://btcphilippines.org/

Join Our Email List | https://bethechurch.org/podcast/

Leave a Review and Subscribe
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Connect With Us
Website: https://bethechurch.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Through honest reflection, practical examples, and even moments of vulnerability, they explore how Jesus’ model of discipleship transforms our understanding of influence, calling, and equipping others. Whether you lead in your church, home, or workplace, this conversation will inspire you to lead with humility, clarity, and a heart surrendered to Christ’s mission.

What you’ll learn:

• The difference between spiritual leadership and worldly leadership
• Why servant leadership is rooted in Scripture
• How failure shapes effective leaders
• How Jesus modeled spiritual leadership with His disciples

Join Our Email List -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/
Download the PDF -> https://bethechurch.org/what-is-spiritual-leadership-how-to-be-a-leader-worth-following

Leave a Review and Subscribe

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube

Connect With Us

• Website: https://bethechurch.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI

Join our email list and don't miss an episode! Sign up here: https://bethechurch.org/podcast
Website: https://bethechurch.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/