We all know the Bible talks about money A LOT! There are more than 2300 verses that deal with topic of money. 16 of Jesus’ 38 parables talk about money or possessions. Why then, do we struggle so mightily to talk to our churches about the issues of money and generosity? 

Today’s guest is going to help us answer that question. Gary Rohrmayer has a lengthy resume. He is a former church planting pastor, author of several books, church planting coach and consultant, and I could go on and on. He is currently the president of Converge MidAmerica, serving in that role for the last 12 years. And yes, that makes Gary my boss. I have learned a lot from Gary over the last 4+ years, and I have discovered that one of his “sweet spots” is helping churches understand the issues of generosity. So, I am excited to welcome Gary to the podcast and promise to be on my best behavior. Thanks so much for being here Gary!

·      Give me the two minute Gary Rohrmayer Story

·      Why do pastors tend to cringe when we talk about generosity?

·      How important is it that churches develop a strategic generosity plan?

·      If you could share 3-4 musts for churches to develop a generosity strategy, what would they be?

·      Can you share a story or two from churches that has reaped the benefits of pressing into the issues of generosity?

·      What’s one baby step a church could take who is listening today, that wouldn’t feel “overwhelming”?

I can think of no one that can speak to this topic of leadership development better than today’s guest. Jessy Padilla is pastor of Eglesia Emanuael in Waukegan Illinois, and is also the founder and leader of the Hispanic leadership training ministry entitled “Forming Trustworthy Leaders”. Jessy has raised up dozens of young men and women who are now leaders, pastors and church planters in the Chicago area as well as around the country and Central America.  Jessy is also passionate for missions and has led many teams on trips to Mexico and other Central and South American countries. Best of all, I consider Jessy a friend, and I couldn’t be more grateful to have him on the show today. So Jessy, welcome to the podcast. 

·      Give me the two-minute Jessy Padilla Story  

·      “Leadership Development” can be a very overused term and lose some of its meaning. How would you specifically define leadership development in a church setting?

·      Ephesians 4 clearly identifies that we are to equip the saints for the work of ministry. Leadership development clearly is such an important part of that, but we often get trapped in even unconsciously thinking that it’s too much work, or I don’t have enough time. How do we think differently?

·      Is leadership development the role of the pastor, or all leaders?

·      How does Iglesia Emanuel focus on leadership development? Speak specifically to the Hispanic Leadership Training course?

·      A cool story of how leadership development has changed the trajectory of someone’s life in your church/ministry.

·      What’s a step our churches could take to do leadership development better?

To help us discuss this important issue, I am pleased to welcome Daniel Warren. Daniel is Executive Pastor at Trinity Baptist Church in Jacksonville Florida. Trinity is a BIG church, and as a big church, they need to have effective small groups. Daniel is well equipped to help us with this important subject. So, Daniel, thanks for being on the podcast and helping us wade through this topic of “Small Groups that Work”.  

·      Give me the two-minute Daniel Warren Story

·      How do you define Small Groups? Why are they important?

·      Should small groups be an A strategy, or should it be one of our strategies? (What is Trinity’s Small Group Strategy)

·      How have small groups worked, and how have they been difficult at Trinity?

·      Open or closed groups. Which model should be our priority?

·      When should a church think about small groups? In other words, what size church?

·      Give us the silver bullet child-care solution?

To help us with this, I’m excited to welcome Gregg Heinsch to the podcast. Gregg is Lead pastor at Celebration Church in Celebration Florida. Gregg planted Celebration ? years ago after pastoring for ? years in Hudson Wisconsin. There are several things I appreciate about Gregg. He is one of the best preachers I know. He is passionate about the gospel, passionate about the church, and passionate about seeing people not only come to know Jesus, but to grow deeply in their relationship with Christ and see that multiplied in others. So Gregg, welcome to the podcast, and thanks so much for your willingness to share with us today.

·      Give me the two-minute Gregg Heinsch Story

·      Discipleship Pathway is sort of a “buzz word” today. Everyone is talking about it, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we KNOW what we’re talking about. So, what exactly do we mean by Discipleship Pathway?

·      As I shared in the intro, I get asked about issues surrounding Discipleship Pathway more than almost any other issue? Why do you think that is?

·      What does Discipleship Pathway look like at Celebration? How do you help people measure if they are “getting somewhere”?

·      Pastors are always looking for curriculum for Discipleship Pathway. Are there good curriculums out there, or should we be creating our own Discipleship Pathway model?

·      I always love hearing success stories. Can you share a story of how Celebration’s focus on Discipleship Pathway has helped transform someone’s life at your church?

·      If there was one thing you could tell a pastor listening today that they need to think about, or step they can take to move the ball forward in regards to Discipleship Pathway what would that be?

95% of all Christians have never won a soul to Christ.

80% of all Christians do not consistently witness for Christ.

47% of Millennials believe sharing your faith is wrong. 

63% of the leadership of one denomination studied did not lead one stranger to Jesus in the last two years.

96% of the leadership believe their churches would have grown faster if they would have been more involved in evangelism.

There is no wonder why evangelism, or lack there of in our churches and among our pastors and leaders is a major reason why so many churches are plateaued or declining in America. So what do we do about it? Today, as we continue to think through different marks of a healthy church over these episodes, we want to discuss the issue of evangelism, and specifically Need Oriented Evangelism. We are defining need oriented evangelism as evangelism that isn’t “pushy” or “manipulative” in the way they share the gospel, rather their secret is to share the gospel in a way that meets the questions and needs of those who don’t yet know Christ. To help us in our discussion today, I am pleased to welcome Walter Angelica. Walter is pastor of Iglesia Ciudad, a multi campus congregation that began in Jacksonville Florida, and is now preparing to launch in Orlando. Walter is passionate personally to see people come to know Jesus, and he has developed within his church a culture of Need Oriented Evangelism. I am excited to have Walter encourage us today as we think through this important subject. So, Walter, welcome to the podcast. 

• Give me the two-minute Walter Angelica Story  
• I have entitled this podcast “Need Oriented Evangelism”. Specifically, I mean evangelism that is not “pushy’ or “manipulative” in the way the gospel is shared, but rather sharing in a way that meets the questions and needs of those who don’t know Christ. What I’d like to ask you as we begin is, What differentiates effective evangelism from ineffective evangelism as you think about it?
• I read several statistics to begin this episode. There is no wonder we have so many weak and ineffective churches in America. What is happening? How do we change this culture within our churches?
• How does Iglesia Ciudad focus on Need Oriented Evangelism.
• The statistic that really struck me was the one where 96% of the leadership believe their churches would have grown faster if they would have been more involved in evangelism. It sure seems like we are not doing a good job as pastors and leaders practicing what we preach? Do you agree, and what do you see as the role of the pastor in evangelism?
• How would you encourage our churches today in regards to evangelism? What’s one step they can take to see the temperature of evangelism raised in their church?

For most of us as pastors as leaders, we see through the lense of our local church and experience. We don’t often have the time to Zoom out “so to speak” at the big C church. I thought it would be beneficial for our listeners to hear from two guys who are still in the pastoral trenches with those local lenses, but now have an ability to share with us their perspectives from a different lense as they have begun their new roles with our movement. What have they been seeing and learning as they have begun their new adventure? So, let’s get right to it.

• What has encouraged you over these last 6 months as you have invested in our churches and pastors in this new way?
• What has surprised you?
• What are some of the glaring issues, or areas of learning you have seen?
• What’s one closing thought, encouragement or exhortation you would give?

 Today, as we start this new season, I want to get us thinking again about church health by sharing “The Marks of a Healthy Church.” How do we know if we are getting healthier as a church. Or more specifically, how do we measure church health. It’s not always easy.  

·      Acts 2:36-37

·      Quantitative Health

·      Qualitative Health

·      Eight Important Characteristics of Qualitative Health

·      NCD and Why Assessment is So Important

Danny shared with us in that episode his podcast entitled “101 Questions Church Planters Ask”. One of the episodes he did on his podcast was sharing about “Should a Pastor Opt Out of Social Security?” I am often asked this question from pastors and church boards, and I thought Danny did a great job of explaining of the issue, so I asked him if I could share that episode with my audience, and he graciously agreed. So here is that episode. I hope you enjoy it. 

I can think of no one I’d rather talk to about this subject than Danny Flores. Danny is a church planter at “R” church in Elgin Illinois. Danny bleeds the heart of a church planter like few other guys I’ve met, and God is blessing him and his new church in amazing ways. I’m also grateful for the way he is “sold out” to seeing broken people see wholeness in Christ. 

·      Give me the 2 minute Danny Flores story.

·      Tell me what intrigued you about church planting. Why did you sense this was God’s direction for you rather than an existing church?

·      What are three or four lessons you’ve learned as you’ve planted your church? 

·      We often talk about the need for church planting pastors to learn from existing church pastors, and vice versa? What are some things you need to hear and learn from existing church pastors. What are some things existing church pastors could learn from planters?

·      What would you say to a pastor listening who might be thinking about church planting?

In March of 2017 I began my job as Vice President of Church Strengthening with Converge MidAmerica. But I wasn’t the only hire. On the same day, MidAmerica also hired a Vice President of Church Planting, Danny Parmelee. Danny was a successful church planter in Milwaukee Wisconsin, and decided that he wanted to use his gifts to help our movement plant churches and he is doing an amazing job. More importantly, Danny has become a valued friend and partner in ministry as we work together to see healthy churches plant churches. Maybe most importantly, this podcast would not have happened without Danny’s help.

·      Give me the 2 minute Danny Parmelee story.

·      Why must church planting be a part of a healthy church’s strategy.

·      What are the misconceptions of church’s who plant churches? (We’ll lose our best people, we’re not big enough, etc.)

·      How does a church begin to think about church planting?

·      What are some landmines we need to avoid?

So in this episode, I wanted to provide you and your church with hope from a church that is seeing a new day. Dr. Chris Dodd is lead pastor at New Community Church in Dolton Illinois, located in the south Chicago metro area. Chris is seeing revitalization happen that is not only changing his church, but his entire community.

• Give me the 2 minute Chris Dodd story.
• Tell me a bit about how you became pastor at New Community and what were the challenges right out of the gate?
• What is the most difficult part of changing the “culture” of the church? How long does it take?
• What have been the most significant changes to the church as you’ve made the changes you have?
• What can you say to the pastor that is in the early days of a church revitilization? 
• What are one or two pitfalls you need to avoid in a revitilization?

To help us talk about this important topic, I’ve asked Chris Vitarelli, pastor of “The Road” church, a two campus ministry in Fenton and Howell Michigan to join me.  Not only is Chris making a big deal about his small churches, he is encouraging pastors all over the country to do the same through a conference entitled “Small Church - Big Deal”, but I’ll let Chris share that with you.  

·      Give me the 2 minute Chris Vitarelli and “The Road” story.

·      What’s the Big Deal About Small Churches?

·      What are the advantages to pastoring in a small church setting?

·      How do you keep your church thinking missionally, and not getting into the trap of being small for the sake of being small?

·      Tell me a bit about your conference, “Small Church, Big Deal”. 

To help us talk about growing a healthy church in a small town, I’ve asked Jerry Troyer, pastor of Eastport Baptist Church in Eastport Michigan to join me. Eastport is a town of 218 people and Jerry has been pastor of Eastport for 2? years. Here’s the amazing thing, Eastport is a healthy, growing and significant church, not only in the Eastport area, but within our movement in Converge MidAmerica, so I can think of no one better qualified to talk about this important topic.

·      The 2 minute Jerry Troyer and Eastport story.

·      What do you wish the “Big City” pastor knew about the “small town” pastor?

·      What are some of the blessings in serving in a small town versus a larger community? 

·      What are some of the difficulties in pastoring in the small town?

·      What are some ways you would encourage pastors listening right now that are pastoring in the small town or rural environment?

·      Give me the 2 minute Cory Ball and Redemption St. Louis story.

·      Help me understand how culture has changed in regards to reaching people to come and check out our church?

·      How do we think through using digital formats to reach people, with the hopes that they may “check us out”? 

·      What are two or three ideas you could give me to help us think better about using digital formats for reaching people, especially for those who are thinking that their flip phone is pretty trendy?

To help us talk about the guest experience and follow up, I have asked Chris Highfill, one of our Converge Midamerica pastors, pastoring just outside the St. Louis area to join us. Chris is a church planter at his core, and God has given him a burning passion to see people come to know Jesus, and that passion is resulting in God working at his church in significant ways. One of the areas that Chris and his church spend a lot of time focusing on, is this area of the guest experience and follow up.  I could say a lot more, but I don’t want to steal Chris’s thunder. So, Chris, thanks for being on the podcast today and sharing with us.

• The Chris Highfill and Grace River story.
• How should we think about dealing with visitors/guests (what should we even call them?). In other words, what should our motivation and thought pattern be in relationship to guests?
• What are the top two or three things we need to absolutely crush in relationship to guests? What are two or three things we absolutely should avoid?
• Follow up is probably the most difficult thing to really do well as it relates to guests. Why is follow up so important?
• What does Grace River do in relationship to follow up and how is it working?

So I thought it would be fun to bring together a group of 3 pastors and worship leaders to talk about this critical issue. Jordan Herrera is worship and group life pastor at Grace River church in St. Louis Missouri. Michelle Albrecht is worship director at Northbridge church in Antioch IL, where her husband Mark is pastor. And Abram Delgado is pastor of Casa De Oracion in Round Lake IL. All three of these leaders understand worship and lead their congregations into God’s presence in ways that bring Him honor and glory.   

• I’m often asked what a worship leader does from a job description perspective. What does a week as a worship leader/director/planner/pastor look like?
• Abram, you are senior pastor now, but you were a worship leaders in the past? What have you learned about worship in the role of lead pastor that is different, challenging?
• Jordan and Michelle, how do you interact with your lead pastor in regards to worship planning and Abram, how do you interact with your worship leaders? 
• A lot of pastors listening to this episode will simply only be able to dream of doing some of the things you all do in your churches in regards to worship? What do you say to the small church pastor who doesn’t have a great “talent” pool to draw from? What are some things you can share that can help them improve their corporate worship experience.

So I thought it would be fun to bring together a group of 3 pastors and worship leaders to talk about this critical issue. Jordan Herrera is worship and group life pastor at Grace River church in St. Louis Missouri. Michelle Albrecht is worship director at Northbridge church in Antioch IL, where her husband Mark is pastor. And Abram Delgado is pastor of Casa De Oracion in Round Lake IL. All three of these leaders understand worship and lead their congregations into God’s presence in ways that bring Him honor and glory.   

• What is worship? What isn’t worship? Definition
• Years ago, when someone said that worship was great, they were talking about how good the message was. Today, when someone says worship is great, they are most often talking about music. I’m pretty sure neither of those statements are correct. How do you push against the “Music IS worship” fallacy at your church? 
• John 4 speaks of worship as spirit (engaging our whole selves) and truth (based on scripture). That doesn’t give a whole lot of specific direction as to format. How do you agressively seek God’s presence in worship without getting into performance mode, or emotionalism, etc.? How do you keep yourselves from falling into these types of traps?

·      Let’s start by giving a simple definition of a church board. 

·      Why do we have them in the first place?

·      What are the board structure options out there?

·      Why do solid gospel churches even within our Converge movement have such differing ideas of how to do it?

·      Whatever model a church decides to use, what are some must dos and don’ts as we think of our church board.

·      Could you share with us some resources that we could go to to learn more about the ins and outs of the board models you’ve shared with us today?  

To help us talk about the issue of pastoral self care, I have asked Sean Nemecek, former Converge Midamerica pastor, and now (?) for Pastor In Residence Ministries, a ministry dedicated to the restoration of broken pastors.

• Why don’t you start by giving the 2 minute Sean Nemecek story.
• What does self care mean as it relates to the pastor, and why is it important for church health?
• What are the tell tale signs that we are not doing well in the area of self-care?
• What is the prescription for being “sick” in our self-care?
• What are some resources for pastors who need more than a “tweak” in their self care?

All America has created a way for us to mobilize as a church to accomplish this task of prayer together. Back in the winter, I had the privilege of hearing about this movement from pastor Joon Hwang.  Pastor Joon is a church planter here in the Chicago area, and he is an intregal part of the All-America Chicago movement. When Pastor Joon shared the vision of All America, I knew we wanted to be in on the front end of this work of God. 

• What is All America Chicago? How did you get involved in it, and what are you hoping to see happen through this? (Vision)
• How can myself and my church get involved?
• I know this isn’t simply a movement in Chicago? How can people listening all around the country connect with this movement? This would be a great time to connect it to Call To All if you haven’t already.

• Many of us have heard of Eagle Brook, but give us a 3 minute version of the Eagle Brook story and what specifically do you do as part of the Eagle Brook team.
• I sometimes get the feeling that we are confused as to what Vision really is. How would you answer that confusion?
• What is the church’s biggest problem with vision. Is it having no vision, not playing out vision, or confusion with vision, or something else?
• If we need to start thinking through vision, where actually should we start? Are there a couple of tools we could sort of launch our discussion/evaluation of vision?
• If there is a church listening right now that would love to work on vision thru the EBA how could they connect.
• Quick commercial for Church Unique

• Give us the 2 minute Dana Olson story.
• “The church that prays together stays together”. How are we doing?
• Why do you think it’s so hard to pray?
• You’ve coined the term “Healthy Desperation” as it relates to prayer. Tell us what you mean by that term?
• Can you share a brief personal story of how you’ve seen a church pray with that kind of healthy desperation?
• You often talk about “raising the temperature of prayer” in our churches (another phrase I stole). What are two or three ways we can raise the temp?

• In Acts 6:4 we are given the call to prioritize the Word and Prayer as pastors. How are we doing as pastors with the “Word” part?
• I just watched a documentary on the life of Martin Lloyd Jones, and watching it reminded me that preaching was really an “art” form. Jones’ sermons were so well crafted that they became classic books. I’m not sure how many of our sermons are “book” worthy. Has the “art” of preaching changed? How should we view preaching in 2020?
•  We should all recognize the need to improve our preaching, so if you would, why don’t you give us two or three things we should be thinking about to improve our preaching.
• Tell us about Fellowship of the Word, and how can our listeners find out more about it.

• Today, let’s talk about evaluating the health of the ministries within the church. How do church leaders go about evaluating that?
• How does the church cycle bell curve work?
• How do you need to lead a ministry depending on where it is on the bell curve? 
• We’ve talked a lot about individual ministries - how about evaluating the church as a whole this way?

 Bruce shares how listeners can contact him for coaching and consulting.

• What is Converge, and what is Dr.Hopler's role within Converge.
• 85% of churches in America are either declining or plateaued and plateaued really means declining most of the time. A short discussion about the reasons for this statistic?
• What are the most important pillars for a to a healthy church to build around?
• How important are numbers (3 B’s) in church health? What’s more important, quantitative or qualitative health?
•  If a church is in that 85% of declining churches, what’s the first thing they should think about?